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Jupiter's "Mini-Me" Solar System Grows

Posted by timothy on from the planetoidenal dept.

An anonymous reader writes "University of Hawaii's robotic telescopes have discovered 8 new moons for Jupiter, thus bringing its mini solar system to 48 total. No one knows how Jupiter dissipates the energy of these likely asteroid captures, unless it once had a massively larger atmosphere. Indeed, its ion cloud today seems to spell doom for what Sir Arthur C. Clarke indicated, is another reason to avoid probing life on Europa. ('All these worlds are yours--except Europa. Attempt no landings there.'-- 2010: Odyssey Two). As an aside, one of those NASA sites seem technically to be doing text-to-speech in a very familiar-sounding, Stephen Hawkings version [MP3] of those articles."

45 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Bad text to speech.... by BWJones · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Geez, I checked out that text to speech link and was surprised the voice was not of any higher quality. Mac users at least, have had much better text to speech quality for years now going back to the mid 90's.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Bad text to speech.... by missing000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thequalityisokbymebutthewordsallseemtoruntogether

  2. Time to move... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since Jupiter is the largest planet in our Solar System it has influenced our neighborhood second only to the Sun.

    Damnit, that's it. Jupiter and it's "friends" are creating too much havoc in this neighborhood, driving prices down, playing their music too damned loud. The police won't help, the astronomers seem to like it. Bah.

    I'm moving.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:Time to move... by Peterus7 · · Score: 4, Funny
      Heh, pretty soon they'll get a telescope to monitor Jupiter 24/7...

      "Not so breaking news. Today, 14 more moons were discovered orbiting Jupiter. That makes the current count 4612. The astronomical community has asked people to start sending applications and $75 cash to name one of Jupiter's moons."

  3. Europa's not the only possibility by s20451 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Recent results from Galileo indicate that Callisto and Ganymede may also have vast oceans beneath their surfaces. So ruling out Europa doesn't mean that there is no life in the Jovian system.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    1. Re:Europa's not the only possibility by Soft · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So ruling out Europa doesn't mean that there is no life in the Jovian system.

      Besides, I still can't see how the Europa torus could hamper life there. On the surface, yes, but that was pretty much already known. Life would be underwater, in an ocean tens of kilometers deep, the radiations won't penetrate that far. So don't rule out Europa.

    2. Re:Europa's not the only possibility by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Life would be underwater, in an ocean tens of kilometers deep, the radiations won't penetrate that far. So don't rule out Europa."

      Just wanted to bring up a point that's not considered very often: Life here on Earth exists in some VERY harsh environments. I don't think there's a natural area of Earth that's completely devoid of life. If you go underwater deep enough, you'll find life forms that exist without any light reaching them near some very hot thermal vents in the ocean floor.

      Frankly, I'd be surprised if an ocean bearing planet or moon didn't have life.

    3. Re:Europa's not the only possibility by RayBender · · Score: 3, Interesting
      This is a bit of a repeat story, so the response is worth repeating: high levels of radiation do not preclude life, and in any case the idea was that Europan life would be under kilometers of ocean.

      It's amazing how much radiation certain bacteria can survive, though..

      By the way, NASA is thinking about a new mission to the Galilean moons, called JIMO . Very exciting stuff - it's amazing how much more you can do with a nuclear propulsion stage.

      --
      Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
  4. Size? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What makes a satellite an acceptable .. satellite? Obviously there's a size issue but is there something else that makes a particular body labeled as a satellite (In the 'moon' sense)?

    1. Re:Size? by mikerich · · Score: 4, Informative
      Essentially a satellite is just a body orbiting its the parent planet. So there is really no lower limit on size.

      At the moment it is just the resolution of our imaging techniques that limits what we call a satellite. There are bound to be hundreds, if not thousands of smaller bodies around Jupiter that we haven't spotted yet.

      Let's just hope that they fit future spacecraft with radar, or send a man up the main mast.

      Best wishes,
      Mike.

  5. What is a moon? by $$$$$exyGal · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Specifically, my question is:
    How close does an natural astronomical body have to orbit a planet for it to be a moon?
    I know there has been much debate about what a planet is (the Pluto debate, etc), but what exactly is a moon? Would it be possible for an object to travel into the Solar System, and then whip around Jupiter, and then reenter the Solar System, etc (without actually getting that close to the sun). If it did that, then would it be a Jupiter-moon?
    --
    Very popular slashdot journal for adul
    1. Re:What is a moon? by mikerich · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hmmm.

      Anything drifting between the stars is likely to have originated in a solar system somewhere. To have escaped from a star's gravity it would have needed an enormous velocity.

      It would need to shed almost all of this velocity before it could then enter an orbit around Jupiter or the Sun. It would have to do this by coming extraordinarily close to Jupiter or the Sun - I have no idea if it could survive such an encounter without being ripped to pieces by tidal forces - anyone?

      Needless to say we haven't seen anything entering the Solar System on such a trajectory, although it seems likely that huge numbers of small bodies were flung out of the Solar System in the period directly after planets were formed. So they might well be out there.

      Is there an astrophysicist in the house?

      Best wishes,
      Mike.

    2. Re:What is a moon? by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "How close does an natural astronomical body have to orbit a planet for it to be a moon?"

      Close enough that it orbits the planet and not the system star. The sun is so much bigger than all the other planets (combined, even) that there is a definite line between those two.

      "(the Pluto debate, etc)"

      IMO, Pluto qualifies as a planet because it's held together by its own gravitational forces. Planetoids are held together solely by chemical forces (ie. just one big rock). Heck, Pluto even has its own atmosphere.

      "but what exactly is a moon?"

      Pluto and Charon confuse things a little bit in this reguard because it can almost be called a binary planet.

      "Would it be possible for an object to travel into the Solar System, and then whip around Jupiter, and then reenter the Solar System, etc (without actually getting that close to the sun)."

      No, because the sun is massive compared to Jupiter, like 1000 times more massive. An object would have to get extremely close to Jupiter (astronomically speaking) for it to notice Jupiter's pull more than the sun's. Note that all the other outer planets still orbit the sun, even though Jupiter is often much closer to each of them. Jupiter affects the orbit of these planets slightly, but those orbits are still around the sun.

    3. Re:What is a moon? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There *is* a natural limit to how far out you can get and still be orbiting a planet, like Jupiter. That limit (roughly) is the Hill radius*, which goes like (m/3 M)^(1/3) a, where m is the mass of the planet, M is the mass of the Sun, a is the planet's orbital semi-major axis and 3 is 3. For Jupiter, this is about half of an astronomical unit. That's actually a pretty big sphere of influence, since Jupiter is only 5.2 AU from the Sun to start with.

      There are some who would call objects in the same helicentric orbit as the planet "moons". This class of objects includes the Trojan asteroids of Jupiter, as well as Earth's "second" moon. On the whole, however, astronomers seem to prefer to only consider something a moon if it really orbits the planet.

      * It's actually a eeensy bit more interesting than that. Prograde moons can't seem to orbit stably much further than half of a Hill radius from their planet, while retrograde moons can orbit up to about a full Hill radius.

  6. Trip to Jupiter by rodney+dill · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well for 47 it really wasn't going to be worth the effort, but for 48 I think we better make the Trip. So Lets Go!


    "... but Capan, Capan, i can not Geet it oop, I got to have 30 minutes.. "

    (with apologies to Scotty)

    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
    You're on earth, there's no cure for that     - S. Beckett
  7. 48??? by king_penguin_05 · · Score: 4, Funny

    48 is worthless!

    42 is the answer.

    --
    "I can't drive 55. It only goes 38."
  8. Speaking of Stephen Hawking by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 5, Funny

    He seems to have turned his attention from Astrophysics to producing gangsta rap

    --
    Repeal the DMCA!
    1. Re:Speaking of Stephen Hawking by SageLikeFool · · Score: 2, Funny

      He must be after a Nobel Prize for M4D SK1llZ.

  9. Picture of Jupiter by rodney+dill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The astronomy picture of the day a few days ago had a nice moving picture of Jupiter with two moons. Where did the other 46 go?


    (feeble Karma saving attempt)

    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
    You're on earth, there's no cure for that     - S. Beckett
  10. Ha! by maximillianarturo · · Score: 2, Funny

    48 moons? Ha! In highschool I was big enough to [insert fatjoke here]!!

  11. Re:Synth Voice Sucks by man_ls · · Score: 3, Funny

    My Name is Dr. Sbaitso. I am here to help you.

    Say whatever is in your mind freely. Our conversation will be kept in strict confidance. Memory contents will be wiped after you leave.

    So, tell me about your problems.

  12. Re:Spell doom for the system by IAR80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We should look for life on Europa but I thing it is not the right moment. We lack technical capabilities for now. A probe looking for life on Europa should travel the distance between Earth and Jupiter, land on Europa, burn its way through a very thick layer of ice (maybe 10 - 20km, swim autonmously trough a dark ocean probing for life, find its way up to the surface and transmit data back to earth. I think this is out of our technicak capabilities for now. Maybe latter.

    --
    http://ebgp.net/ccc/
  13. Re:I can only see 3 moons though... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please, I know this is news for nerds, but please, lower your geekiness factor a tad!

  14. Mini solar system? by WankersRevenge · · Score: 3, Funny

    thus bringing its mini solar system to 48 total Considering our solar system is only 9 . . . doing you think Jupiter going overkill to compensenate in other areas which may be...um, lacking?

  15. It's not "Hawkings"... by 1984 · · Score: 2

    ...it's "Hawking".

    No, I know it's not important. So I'll add an "s" to the end of your name, sometimes. It won't bother you because, after all, it's not important that it's actually correct, just that I know who you are.

    1. Re:It's not "Hawkings"... by Big+Mark · · Score: 3, Funny
      At Slashdot, it's all about quantity, not quality!
      That explains the dupes then!

      That's a point... is a triply posted story a tripe?

      -Mark
  16. Re:Spell doom for the system by mikerich · · Score: 3, Informative
    Agreed, that it looks impossible right now. We need an enormous velocity to get to Jupiter and then need to lose almost all of that to enter orbit around Europa. Any space-craft would be something like 90% fuel unless we use some radical technologies - which will need a lot of testing.

    Although a halfway step would be nice - a high resolution Europa orbiter would be very useful. Then we could see exactly what the whole surface looked like, map it with radar and so on. Perhaps we could map the heat flow through the surface from that projected Europan ocean, work out what trace materials form those dark streaks, perhaps it would even be able to remote sense organic compounds that have come to the surface.

    Still we can at least rule out a manned mission - the Jovian magnetosphere would cook any Frank Pooles and Dave Bowmans long before they got to Europa.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

  17. Jupiter to moons: GET IN MY BELLY!!! by macshune · · Score: 3, Funny

    (REUTERS) JUPITER--"C'mere, I wanna eat ye! I'm bigger than you and I'm stronger than you, I'm higher on the food chain!" Jupiter announced today, shortly before it embarked on a moon-gobbling smorgasbord adventure.
    "By jove, I think he's mad," Europa said through a spokesperson today.
    The other 47 moons did not return our calls.

  18. Re:But what are their names? by boo+pixie · · Score: 2, Funny

    I suppose it will take some time and go before the official naming group.

    You have any ideas? It seems theyre out of names from Roman mythology, and moved on to Shakespeare's plays and "The Rape of the Lock."

    But then there's always the option of naming them all "George Forman"

    --
    -- http://uncannyvalley.org/
  19. Something else in Jupiter's orbit? by Dukeofshadows · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe they'll find that big black rock orbiting Jupiter that'll turn it into the second sun...or maybe Bush and co. will try to destory it since that would make solar power so much more effective...

    --
    As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
  20. Re:I can only see 3 moons though... by saskboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sorry, on second though, I think it was a 6" Newtonian telescope with a R.A. auto tracking motor. It was possibly a 12mm eyepiece, and the camera is a Canon Powershot S30 with 3X zoom and held against the eyepiece as steady as I could.

    I wonder how my post could be construed as "flaimbait"? Slightly offtopic, I conceed, but people interested in Jupiter news might like to see how it looked just last Thursday. You never know when it will just pack up and leave with all it's moons in tow.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  21. Recent Moon Additions by FosterSJC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For those interested, here are the slashdot threads for the last two moon additions to Jupiter:

    1. New Moon of Jupiter Discovered

    S/2002 J1- Catchy name, eh? Beats the hell out of say, Europa or Ganymede. Incidentally, this ran on 12/28/02.

    2. Jupiter's 11 New Moons

    This one ran on 5/17/02.

    1. Re:Recent Moon Additions by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "S/2002 J1- Catchy name, eh? Beats the hell out of say, Europa or Ganymede."

      That won't be its permanent name. All bodies are given temporary names of that kind until the Internation Astronomer's Union confirms their permanent names. Besides some slight beaurcratic overhead intended to keep astronomical nomenclature standardized, this is also because they want to be sure it's really a new object.

  22. Exactly ! by Evil+Pete · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How is a radiation field going to penetrate kilometres of ice ... or even a few metres ? It can't. Timothy didn't even bother to read the original article which made NO mention of that conclusion .. he thought that up by himself.

    Europa still looks good. In fact it looks like the best place to me.

    --
    Bitter and proud of it.
  23. That's no moon by StormyWeather · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's a SPACE STATION!!!!

  24. ion cloud is irrelevant by g4dget · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any life on Europe is likely going to be miles deep under water. An ion cloud and radiation hitting the surface is not going to make any difference there. So, the chances for Europan life are as good or as slim as they have ever been. However, the radiation may make exploration more difficult.

  25. fact check BEFORE posting.... by barakn · · Score: 4, Informative
    its ion cloud today seems to spell doom for what Sir Arthur C. Clarke indicated, is another reason to avoid probing life on Europa

    ceejayoz writes "A newly discovered gas cloud around Jupiter, created by ion radiation hitting the surface of Europa, has cast doubt on possible life on the moon.

    The ion cloud is completely irrelevant to the chances of finding life deep in the oceans of Europa. The Earth itself is surrounded by belts of ionized radiation. Ions bombard the atmosphere hard enough for it to visibly glow near the magnetic poles. And yet life thrives in just about every Earth environment that isn't molten rock. And the original posted link about the Jovian ion torus never mentioned any hazards to Europan life.

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  26. Re:But what are their names? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Jupiter's moons are all named (saith the official Internation Astronomers' Union rules) after paramours of Jupiter/Zeus. There are a few exceptions, named for the nurses of the young Jupiter.

    But even with Zeus's ... er... excesses, we're running out of names.

    (Saturn's moons are all titans, I believe, Neptune's are minor gods and goddess associated with, well, Neptune, and Uranus's are named for Shakespeare and Pope characters. Mostly sprites, I think.)

  27. Re:Spell doom for the system by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, but they're working on this technology using the work done at Lake Vostok as an example.

    --
    Huh?
  28. Re:Spell doom for the system by C21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see it as launching a craft that would put into orbit around europa and detach mini probes that would plunge/melt through the surface, transmitting discoveries to the "mother ship" and thus back to earth. All very "simple", electromagnetic waves can go through water, you know...

    --
    this is not a sig.
  29. well crap... by frozencesium · · Score: 4, Funny

    why not take advantage of the "mini solar system" and just ignite jupiter and turn sol into a binary system?

    2 stars = more sunlight to grow crops, power solar vehicals, etc...

    ah crap...i've been watching too much stargate SG1...

    -frozen

    --
    I'm not always the brightest pixel in the stream
  30. Re:Spell doom for the system by passion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All this, while not contaminating any alien species' primordial goop, and wiping them all out just as we discover them.

    --
    - passion
  31. Re: state-of-the-art TTS for the time... by ajedgar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually it was State-of-the-art Text-to-speech at the time... Centigram Communications now SS8 Networks (91 E. Tasman San Jose surrounded by Cisco buildings ) started licensing the technology in 1993. It is based on a mathematical simulation of the vocal cords and voice tract and was very good in the day.

    Beside the actually voice quality the system also had very context sensitive parsing and could read addresses, titles, newspaper headaline, etc. properly.

    One of the major licensees was Lernout & Hauspie who sometime around 1997 bought the division from Centigram.

    Everyone knows it as the voice of Stephen Hawking. We also gave a courtesy system to Governor Pete Wilson back in 94/95 when he lost his voice while campaigning.

    Centigram is now long gone. It was bought by ADC Telecommunications at the height of the telco frenzy back in the summer of 2000 for $200M cash. ADC sold it to SS8 Networks a year later for ten cents on the dollar.

    Easy come, easy go. Technology marches on, soon to make all current forms of government obsolete... or die trying.

    Andrew

    Twelve $600 2Ghz Celeron systems circa 2003 have the same (or greater) rendering power as the $5M+ 300 100Mhz SuperSparc (SparcStation 20s) cluster used by Pixar to render Toy STory in 1995. I'm having fun with Povray... :-)

  32. Superheroes on Europa? by extra88 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The ion cloud is completely irrelevant to the chances of finding life deep in the oceans of Europa. The Earth itself is surrounded by belts of ionized radiation.

    Exactly, it just increases the chances that life on Europa will have super-powers. The Fantastic Four knows all about that. Sure, they have super-powers now but all-in-all they'd rather they didn't, especially Ben Grimm.

  33. Re:Spell doom for the system by IAR80 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If there is a ocean under the thick layer of ice (6-15km estimated), and if there is life, that life will probably exist only near thermal vents deep below and never find its way or at least never in detectable quantities. Here on Earth we do not know for sure if there is life in the Vostok lake.

    --
    http://ebgp.net/ccc/