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Galactic Civilizations Coming Soon
dragonsister writes "Like Master of Orion 3, Galactic Civilizations is a turn-based strategy game involving colonizing and dominating the galaxy - militarily, diplomatically, or economically. Unlike MOO3, GalCiv will (release date March 26th) come without copy-protection; Stardock are addressing the piracy issue by providing a bonus pack and further downloads to users providing a CD key. This 'rewarding the honest' approach is precisely what Slashdotters have asked for ." I've been playing a lot of MOO3, which I love, but this is looking great as well. Ah, the bounty of games.
GalCiv may also be purchased via a subscription to Drengin.net, which also supplies a variety of 'smaller' games which would not sell so well in the normal market.
I have no connection to anyone producing Galactic Civilizations. I'm planning to buy the game because I've been impressed by:
- The developer's interaction with fans, at least on the newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic
- The level of beta-testing employed
- The comments from the public beta-testers
- The developer's budget of a year of additional development, including AI improvements (Stardock has a reputation for good game AI anyway!)
A game company that understands the key is not to cause inconvience to users but to commit to ensuring theres a better reason for buying the game "because otherwise you're a bad boy". I'll be buying it!!
So would I be correct in saying that if you buy the game, you get every bit of 'expansion pack' style material that comes out in the following year of development?
That's sure to be a success, although I can only think of one expansion pack I didn't buy for a Blizzard game (they're good at releasing expansions that cost half the same as the original game).
Still, I'm contemplating either MOO3 or GalCiv as I don't have loads of time to spend playing games these days.
Quick poll, which one do you think is better? I'm leaning towards GalCiv as I usually like playing strategy games single player. Multiplayer is much better in fast pace eg. FPS.
Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
I hate to say it, but some form of copyright is good. Do you think the average joe bloggs in the street gives a hoot about copyright if they can get around it. I personally hate to hear that the game I just forked $90AUD for is being played by a mate who just ripped it off someone else. Where then is the economical reason to purchase the game yourself?
Copyright should only be there to make it hard for most people to burn, not everyone. People should still always be able to back up their data to CD. It is only when copy right goes that step beyond reasonable protection that I complain. Like the CD I purchased the other day that wont play in my computer.
We all hate copyright because we all know that at some point in our lives we have breached it. I know I am craptacular at agruments but all I want is the prices to come down to reasonable levels.
Oh hang on, I hear you talking about the no-copyright utopia. Well sorry it aint going to happen. Ever. Look at the frickin trends that all the large companies are moving towards. Soon we will have to call up an activation center to play our favourite CDs.
(BTW, I just paid for MOO3 and it is an okay game. I realise it is strategy, but c'mon, why cant i up the res a little).
For many companies, including Microsoft item 3 on your list has been filled in with "Sell a shitload of games."
You are perhaps mistaking missing some sales with being unprofitable. Many people make this mistake, and thus fail to profit. Half a fresh pie you can eat is better than a whole pie rotting in a safe.
Apogee actually managed to make a profit *giving* fully functional games away and only selling additional content.
Go figure.
I'm not at all sure that wouldn't make a viable commercial model today. Sell what amounts to a "super demo" for a nominal fee to cover costs, say ten bucks, and get as many copies out there as you could, and then sell extended content for twenty five bucks to those who found the game worth it.
Of course this would only work if you were putting forward a really *good* game.
If you're putting forward a crappy game, yeah, you're right, the only way to profit is copy protect the hell out of it, and make sure you've got the buyer's money well tucked away up front.
Hey, maybe that's why so many games are a pain to play these days. If you can't even get authorized to play a game you've actually paid for you'll never get to find out what a piece of crap it is while you can still return the bugger.
Good games, at a fair price that can simply be copied to a HD and played from there without a key have never failed to be appreciated, and to sell quite well.
KFG
For those who like space strategy games, and colonization etc, I would suggest Imperium Galactica. It is my favorite space strategy game :) And it's real time, not turn based.
:)
http://imperiumgalactica.com/
About this game outlined in the topic, I think it's a mere advertisement but we'll see if this game is good anyway
Khalid
"What you 'seek' is what you get!"
This is a good move, allows you to burn backups of your CD's. For an example, Battlefield 1942 came out in the uk (maybe elsewhere) with CD's that were poorly manufactured and so have been cracking whilst in the drive etc. EA charge 7.50 UKP to replace each disc and as there are two that's an additional 15 UKP for the game on top of retail price. Not a good situation at all. Oh before you ask the copy protection on the CD's is a nightmare to get around.
The game comes with a CD key and this can be used to prevent online play which is what bf1942 is all about, ok so that doesn't prevent the warez kiddies from playing the game in single player which is like a training ground for multi player, so the CD key could have been the main form of protection for this game. Grrr
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
MOO3 will run in Linux almost perfectly with WineX. Other than needing to change the cursor to 'system' in the options panel, the game works almost flawlessly for me.
Of course, WineX isn't free, ($5/month gives you binaries and voting rights to what should be worked on next), but I think it's worth it. There's also a bit a movement to get Transgaming to concentrate more on getting older classic games running in Linux, and for that hope alone, I'm behind TG.
I game, therefore I am...
I am curious to see if they really solved the critical mass problem found in strategic games as well as they claim here.
Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer. - Ludwig von Mises
What is there to stop people from distributing the bonus downloads from Stardock via the same methods pirates will use for copies of the game?
This comment was generated by a Squadron of Ultra Ninjas
On another related issue, I am hoping that the "Internet distribution business model" starts showing a more vibrant show of support soon. The ability to save money by taking out the middleman is just about always wanted. Add to that the possibility of increasing quality and diversity of games by reducing the groupthink draconian measures from the publisher. Every little bit helps I suppose.
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
I bought MoO3, and played it for 30+ hours, desperately seeking some kind of enjoyment. I never found any. I wound up returning my copy for Freelancer. I've been watching GalCiv for a little while now, and it actually looks halfway decent. I think I may need to pick up a copy. This time around, however, I'll wait and see what some of the players are saying before I pick it up.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
I've been a Stardock follower for quite a while now. See, I tried out some of their software quite a while back, and I found a rather nasty bug in their window skinning product, WindowBlinds. So I decided to go report it.
:-)
;-). They go the extra mile to help - almost every member of the company is available on IRC, from the CEO downwards. They have a dedicated community on the Stardock newsgroups and over at WinCustomize, who helped them transition from OS/2 to Windows - people bought Object Desktop subscriptions a year before it was officially out, because they trusted Stardock to deliver.
;-)
Most companies would simply have acknowledged the bug, maybe offering a simple thank-you. Their response was to give me a registered copy of the software and encourage me to submit more bugs.
(disclaimer: this approach may not work for everyone
Stardock are good. They don't mess their customers around - they might not always do what some of them want, but hey, that's true of any company, and at least they explain why
Heck, they even had a positive cashflow throughout the dot-com era, because they didn't rely on stupid business plans and massive investment. Just on listening to their customers, making a good product and shipping it.
GalCiv is one of those products. It's got a solid AI, and more gameplay than you can shake a stick at. And the price is right. So go get it now.
And no, I don't get paid for this.
I remember playing GalCiv way back in the OS/2 days. It was a pretty cool game.
But this is 2003 -- are they going to come out with a Linux version?
If not, then why do I care? Should I have to go out and buy Windows XP to play a game? (Sorry, I can't run Windows for legal/ethical reasons.) Should I have to dumb down my Linux box by buying a commercial WINE variant that seems little more than a big kludge?
It's got to be native Linux binaries or nothing...
GalCiv has such a bright AI that at most difficulty levels, not only doesn't it cheat, but it is defavorised against the human player - for example, if I understand well, it gets less money.
This has been made possible by the use of a multithreaded AI. To wit, whereas most turn-based games did 'think' only during a short lapse of time between the human's turns, GalCiv thinks continuously while the human is playing. So that allows for a much longer computation time.
GalCiv has already been used on Tom's Hardware to test the hyperthreading capacity of the new Pentium4 3GHz.
Moreover, there's a stuff called the 'Metaverse'. In short : after you end a game, you can automatically upload some crucial game data (your score, elements of your strategy...) to a central server which then deduces improvements to the game's AI. Then I guess you end up with a game which plays better.
The guys from the GalCiv team say it has already been working with the betatesters's games and has very significantly improved the game's AI.
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
What does this say about our society? It is sad that we feel we should be rewarded for doing the right thing. We should want to do the right thing without expecting rewards.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Whilst this is a great idea, I have one point to make: It won't do a thing about piracy. Why? because all the 133t w4r3z d00dz will just pirate the bonus material. Sure one person will have to buy it, but it only needs one person who has bought it to then realease it...
"Success is based on knowing how far to go in going too far"
But, will Galactic Civilations run under WineX?
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
If you can download the full version why not go the whole hog and offer the option of download and burn yourself! That way you can save the carrier costs they can pass on the savings of not having to produce the box/cd etc, and can cut out the middle man completely which can take up to 50% of the costs, that way they could offer it for 20-30 bucks, and still make a good profit. 45 buck plus P&P is the same as a highstreet price. So where is my saving? Yes I can play now, but thats only a few days break before before the box arrives, and I still have to download the sucker. Yes I like this approach but they haven't followed it through completely.
James
That's the big question right there, isn't it. I certainly hope so, but of course there's no way to find out until somebody gets their hands on a copy and tries it. Unless of course somebody at Stardock tries it out themselves before the game is released.
Hmmm - that would be nice - to have the actual developers try to get the game running in WineX before it's released. Heck, maybe they could even fix any incompatibilities in the game itself, rather than have TransGaming update WineX to support it! Not going to happen, sure, but damn, it would be cool...
I game, therefore I am...
Sheesh - I see a headline like ./ had a scoop from the SETI
Institute.
"Galactic Civilizations Coming Soon"
and I thought
Alas, it was just a game...
Sweet......are these galactic civilizations the anarchic oppressive Star Wars-type, or the unrealistic techno-communistic Star Trek type? And do we, as a species, stand to survive in these civilizations? I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords :)
Karma: pi (Mostly due to circular reasoning in posts).
Seriously, this game was pretty much the only reason I kept OS/2 Warp on my machine as a dual boot with Win 3.1 back in 1996-97. I loved OS/2... the multiple virtual desktops, the multithreading of all the programs, the clean looks, the stability... but what I really loved was GalCiv and the responsive way that Stardock and Brad Wardell would update the AIs on a regular basis, based on feedback from the players. I can't wait for GalCiv to make its return to my machine. (No, I am not in their employ... I just really, really loved that game, and really, really hated being forced to give it up when I finally gave up on OS/2.)
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
I used to play a fair amount of VGAP v3 with some buds on a BBS...you know, kickin' it old skool. Any comments on how SEIV stacks up against MOO3 or GalCiv?
Oddly enough, good products from good companies with good support don't tend to get shared like that.
It tends to be only the companies that annoy consumers, that try to gouge them that suffer the P2P fate.
For example, Space Empires IV is a very good game, and the community is very loyal to that game, so you won't see it around very much. It's just that simple.
I remember reading people asking for codes for Gamespy's server listing program for games, and everyone was telling them to just spend the little bit of money the program would cost, because it was worth it. Worth supporting the software and worth the use it would get.
That's what motivates people; the feeling that they are being treated with respect by the companies. And in turn that respect will be returned by the community.
When everything is said and done
MOO2 was just more fun
Quicksilver might still snatch great out of the jaws of good, and are some fantastic ideas here (once you get used to the interface) but currently, MOO3 is what we in open source would call a "Release Candidate". I am amazed that Infogrames actually let this one out of the door at this stage.
...I would be surprised if Stardock ever develops for anything but MS OSes. Brad Wardell pretty much despised Linux back in Stardock's OS/2 era (especially after having been burned on an early effort to port GalCiv). Even if BW did not have a fundamental philosophical objection to the concept of free/open source software, he would still need to avoid Linux like the plague. Stardock has a pretty nice business providing add-ons to MS -- and, so far, at least, MS has not tried to muscle in on anything that Stardock is doing. Imagine what would happen to his business, which exists solely due to the sufferance and good will of MS, if he allowed porting (or worse, developed) products for "enemy" operating systems.
Brad has always been a good guy -- I wish him well, even though it is not likely that I will ever use any Stardock software again. (I bought almost everything it released for OS/2 -- but OS/2 is long gone from our family computers).
MEK
Credo quia impossibilis -- Tertullian
Boy does this take me back down memory lane.
I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed Trials of Battle. We did, in fact, do a Windows version of TOB but it was never released.
However, the publishing contract with Stardock is expired so even if they wanted to release it they could not.
It is fun to contemplate what we could do in an updated version of TOB (better graphics, real Internet play), but it will almost certainly never happen since both parties (Stardock and us) have moved on to other things these days.
But it is still fun to think about...
There has been a lot of posting about Linux on the XBox, but I am much less adventerous and way too cheap to buy a brand spanky new xbox. But Simcountry has an incredibly in depth and hopelessly nerd centric game that I can play with the glories of Opera/IE/Netscape. They simulate an entire world right down to each country's roadmap and social security payments...and they do it on linux. It takes almost 12 full hours of processing to make each world go thru one month of activity. I wonder where they fell on this list of favorite linux games. All servers are dual processor units running everybody's favorite free operating system:linux. You can see how it all works. And see me.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
I agree with the parent poster; MOO3 is not ready for prime time. As said elsewhere in this thread, the AI is buggy (will almost never attack, loves to build troop ships) and there are DirectX issues.
MOO3 is all about macromanagement, says developer Quicksilver...and that's all well and good, except they took away all ability to get down "in the weeds" and do the sorts of things people loved to do in MOO2, like build custom ships and command them in battle.
Sure, you can specify what types of weapons, engines and defensive systems a particular class of ship has, but when it comes to combat your control is limited to a particular battle group with the options "patrol", "attack", "move", "stop" and "retreat".
Finally, the graphics are less than stellar. Yes, I agree that gameplay is more important than graphics but MOO3 appears to be a step backward in many ways from MOO2. Combat, for instance, consists of a green grid on a black background; most ships are depicted as tiny grey or brown dots. There isn't a starfield to be seen.
The GUI is also lackluster, cumbersome, and reminicent of the Windows 95 interface. While planet and diplomacy animations are nice, a suite of generic icons are used for technologies -- a far cry from MOO2's research animation which showed a member of your race standing by a rotating custom depiction of the newest gadget.
Did I mention that there was no way to rename planets or star systems, nor choose player colors as in MOO2?
The MOO3 player community is making great strides to improve the game, but there is plenty of left to do on Quicksilver's part. I might add that the only official comment received from the developer so far has been from the art director, who says that they're working on updating the manual. After so many years of development and testing -- and over a month between Gold status and release -- one really has to wonder what the hell is going on at Quicksilver, and if they truly intend on making a mediocre game great. I fear that they will release a single AI-strengthening patch, then wash their hands of the whole affair.
Some people love MOO3, and I say: good for them. Those of you who loved the previous version, be warned: this game is not like MOO2 and is as problematic as the first (pre-patch) release of that game.
Galactic Civilizations, at this point, would appear to be the wiser choice.
"But like MOO3, it doesn't run on linux. Or did this change?"
I hate to sound rude here, but if you're really interested in playing games, you should seriously consider dual booting with Windows 2000 or something. It'll be a while before Linux has a respectable gaming library.
Not trying to troll here but trying to be practical. Why miss out on the good games? I'll be switching to Linux in the next year or so (Lightwave's slowly making it's way over to Linux, so I can finally do my work on it...) but I'm always going to have Win2k as an alternative OS so I can keep playing games.
Personally, I'd rather have the games than flip off MS.
No copy protection's nice and all, but I want to evaluate the game. I floated around their site a bit and didn't find a demo or evaluation copy. Anybody know if one's in development?
The only real reason I'd have for wanting a copy of the game (Besides backup) is to give it a run before I buy it. I like their approach here. "Well if he's not going to buy it, at least let him try it, then we can still reward him when he buys it."
I appreciate that they're not treating me like a theif, but I don't want them to forget that demo versions are a must.
"How do you know?"
From a linked article:
"Stardock has found that the best way to keep customers and decrease piracy is to reward people for supporting you rather than punish people by having to go through copy protection.
Each GalCiv user has their own unique serial number that is verified on our server as being a valid serial number. When a user enters this serial number into our server, they get a Stardock.net account which lets them instantly gain access to all sorts of extra goodies including the BonusPak."
The language they use, throughout the sites actually, displays a distinct lack of intent to use serials in such a way as to prosecute people who don't have one. "If you have one, great, thanks and here's some extra stuff" is the clear and ringing message I get from the sites. Maybe they will become evil in the future. They have the benefit of the doubt however, due to a lack of past bad behavior. MS does not have this advantage, and further, clearly has the intent of using their serial scheme to shut down and/or go after people without (a real) one.
"And? Microsoft will deny patches if no serial is provided, and StarDock will NOT provide additional goodies if a serial is NOT provided."
There is a huge difference between a patch to fix the base product and additional graphics, sounds, etc. MS putting free stuff up for XP isn't the same, since if you haven't a serial for XP, you're still screwed at a more fundamental level. Not so with GalCiv.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
I know you're just being funny, but to those that might not know: the game is already gold and will be shipping March 25.
of the ONLY great game ever turned out for OS/2. StarDock was originally supplied apps for OS/2. One - not a game - provided multiple desktops and otherwise took great advantage of the object oriented nature of the os. GC was multithreaded and had a vicious AI. GC also earned a Game of the Year Award at one point. Great news.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.