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Speeding up Evolution

DaytonCIM writes ""We can rebuild him. Make him stronger... faster..." Slate.com has a great article on next generation gene research that promises to build "Supermen" or "Superwomen" out of us all. Insulin-like Growth Factor genes to make us stronger without ever visiting a weight room. EPO to generate more red blood cells and enable us to run "forever." Engineered human "Blood" to speed up evolution, so that we become less susceptible to disease and injury."

11 of 408 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Born too late by josh+crawley · · Score: 4, Informative

    ---I wish cryogenicists would freeze LIVING people

    They'd die anyways. You know what happens to water when you freeze it? It expands. Now picture all of your water in your body being frozen. When unfroze, you'd be a mass of humany bony glop from all your cells rupturing.

    Now this MIGHT work if there was a sure fire way to replace water with a substance that was the similar size, similar weight, and didnt expand when frozen......

  2. Nazis... by Joseph+Wharton · · Score: 3, Informative

    Isn't this the sort of thing that the Nazis were working on back during World War II?

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    1. Re:Nazis... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Informative

      No. Genetic engineering != eugenics. They're two completely different ideas.

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      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:Nazis... by Noehre · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, Eugenics programs started in the United Stated and culminated with the forced sterilization laws found in many areas.

      The Nazis got the idea from Americans.

  3. Re:Born too late by EricTheMad · · Score: 5, Informative

    You know what happens to water when you freeze it? It expands.

    Water freezes differently depending on how it's frozen. If you freeze it slowly it forms a crystalline structure that takes up a significantly larger space than before. That expansion is what ruptures the cells. However, if the water is flash frozen it doesn't form into crystals and takes up approximately the same amount of space as when unfrozen. That means that the cells remain undamaged. Flash freezing is the technique that is used in human cryogenics.

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  4. Re:Born too late by j-pimp · · Score: 3, Informative

    Flash freezing works great for mice and suck, but I don't know of anyone that has successfully done it to large animals. The larger an animal is the longer it is going to retain its heat when immersed in something really cold. Now last time I looked into it, most scientists believed current people freezing methods are not good enough to prevent water from forming crystals. However, If you drop a gerbil in some liquid nitrogen and let it thaw out at room temperature chances are it will unfreeze and walk around.

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  5. Re:Born too late by danila · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Cells do not burst as a result of freezing in almost all circumstances, because not only are animal cell walls generally elastic enough to accomodate a 10% expansion, but most of the ice is formed outside the cells." (The Immortalist, Nov-Dec 2002. Vol. 34, p. 5.)

    In addition, various techniques exist, such as perfusion with glycerol, that further reduce the freezing damage.

    "In [another method] vitrification more than 60% of the water inside cells is replaced by a mixture of cryoprotectant (antifreeze) compounds so that tissue does not freeze (or freezes negligibly) during cooling. Instead, below a temperature of -130 degrees Celsius, the tissue becomes a rigid glass with no ice crystal damage." (http://www.alcor.org/FAQs/index.htm, Alcor website, Frequently Asked Questions)

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  6. Eugenics vs. Genetic Engineering by Selanit · · Score: 5, Informative

    Genetic engineering != eugenics. They're two completely different ideas.


    That may need a little elaboration, as the two touch on related areas.

    Eugenics is a theory which holds that certain individuals are innately superior to others, and that the superior few are vastly outnumbered by the inferior many. If you accept these two premises, then it follows that the inferior many are sure to reproduce faster than the superior few, with the result that the characteristics of the superior individuals will be lost. Basically, a eugenicist sees the world in terms of a conflict between those with big brains and those with big dicks. In order to improve the species, therefore, a eugenicist will attempt to discourage the inferior from procreating, and encourage the superior.

    The biggest problem with this theory is figuring out how to tell who's superior and who's inferior. The answer depends on how you ask the question, and on what your beliefs are about what would constitute a "superior" human being. The Nazis believed that a certain physical type was superior -- blond hair, blue eyes, extremely fair skin, what they called "Aryan". They conducted experiments attempting to further these characteristics; for example they would take a pair of brown-eyed twins, and inject chemicals into their eyes in an attempt to change the eye-color to blue. This particular study was carried out at Auschwitz by Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death.

    If, on the other hand, you are an American eugenicist, what you do to separate the inferior and the superior is come up with the Intellectual Quotient Test and administer it to all schoolchildren. Those who do well are deemed fit, and allowed to do things like take college prep courses in high school. Those who are deemed unfit are only allowed to take classes in, say, technical arts, thereby preparing them for a lifetime working as drones in a factory. Also, you get laws passed in many states requiring the forced sterilization of any person below a certain IQ level who attempts to reproduce. You might also conduct studies such as the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments which were begun with the understanding that the subjects would be black because black men are naturally more lascivious than white men, and therefore more likely to have syphilis. These experiments were funded by Congress, continued for four decades, involved hideously painful procedures like spinal fluid taps, and worst of all the subjects were never told that they had syphilis. By the time they found out, it was far too late for any of them to seek treatment.

    Eugenics is no longer an accepted theory. It depends on an arbitrary vision of what constitutes "superiority", and led to some truly barbaric practices, both in Germany and in the United States. I do not know how well the theory was received in other countries. I am, however, truly grateful that it is no longer accepted.

    Genetic engineering, on the other hand, is a technique for the modification of living creatures by altering their genetic structure. It could very easily be used for eugenics, but has other more benign purposes as well.

    There are two kinds of genetic engineering. One involves the modification of an existing organism. For example, take a child afflicted with cystic fibrosis, a genetic disease which causes the lungs to fill with mucus, thereby making it extremely difficult to breathe. That child might be treated by inhaling a vapor of specially created viruses that insert themselves into the affected lung cells and alter their genetic code in such a way that they stop producing the mucus. This is also known as gene therapy.

    The other form of genetic engineering involves modifying an organism before it starts growing. Thus you might take a fertilized egg and modify its DNA prior to its implantation in the wall of the mother's womb. Since all cells in the body ultimately derive from that egg, your modification would change the fundamental nature of the adult organism. Genetic modifications have been carried out on plants, for example to make them resistant to a particular disease, or to increase the per-acre yield of a food crop. You yourself have probably eaten such genetically modified food. It is quite common in America; less so in Europe, where there are a great many people who protest against it.

    Genetic engineering is a field which has enormous potential for good -- the elimination of genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis. If two people are aware that their child might suffer from CF, they could perform an artificial insemination of an egg which had been "fixed", or avoid the disease simply by choosing an egg that wasn't affected in the first place. On the other hand, genetic engineering also has a staggering potential for abuse. A genetic engineer could not only cure diseases, but also create entirely new ones. The new disease might be used in biological warfare. It is conceivable (though currently not possible) that genetic engineering might be able to create a contagious mutagen -- a virus that would spread throughout the population, and make a particular modification within the bodies of the victims. Imagine if the Nazis had been able to create a virus that would alter the eggs and testicles of those who contracted it. They could have ensured that the next generation would be blond and blue-eyed, against the will of the parents.

    Then, of course, there is the danger that we might screw up. We know a lot about genetics now, but there's even more that's not well understood. Sequencing out a full human gene doesn't mean that we understand how all the parts interact with another. There are large portions of the genome that don't seem to do anything (introns) . . . but then again maybe they do, and we just haven't figured it out quite yet. Then there's the fact that one sequence of DNA might control or contribute to three or four different finished structures. If you alter it to give a child green eyes, you might also cause the child to be bald. (That's just an example, I have no idea if the sequences controlling hair production and eye color are at all related.)

    Basically, we don't know enough at this point to engage in wholesale manipulation of human genetics. We should not outlaw it -- the genie is out of the bottle, and if we tried outlawing it, the research would merely be undertaken by unethical scientists with little or no oversight. On the other hand, we should NOT perform modifications of human beings without a clear idea of what we're doing and a damn good reason to do it. Giving your kid a particular eye color is NOT a good reason for genetic engineering. Avoiding cystic fibrosis is acceptable. Engineering for more abstract qualities -- musical talent, mathematical skill, linquistic ability -- should be avoided at all costs until we have some idea what the hell we're doing. We don't even know if those qualities are controlled by genes; in the process of trying it out we might very well screw up and make some truly horrible mistakes. Note that many autistic people are also extremely good at math.

    Then there are the social issues. Genetic engineering is expensive. If we're not careful, it could become a way for the wealthy to reinforce their dominance over world affairs. It is natural to want to give your child every advantage in life that you can; but doing so can simultaneously disadvantage other people's children.

    In short, genetic engineering of humans is problematic. It could provide some unparalleled benefits to the human species . . . but it is also an ethical minefield, and could easily be turned to selfish or downright evil purposes.
  7. Re:aS A Drunk biochemist i'll lend my thoughts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    Anyone who injects steroids can get very strong, but only if he lifts weights regularly



    You don't *necessarily* have to lift weights for steroids to build muscle, but it helps a lot.


    Wrong! You can juice all you want, but without progressive resistance training your body won't be forced to adapt - i.e. build new muscle.

  8. Re:Slightly off topic... by HiThere · · Score: 2, Informative

    There have been some studies. Increasing symmetry increases both beauty and blandness. At some level (varies) people start preferring more interesting features over more beautiful ones. There are also correlations with what your parents looked like, and what your cousins looked like, etc. Generally people like to marry people who look similar enough to their parents to be their second cousins. But this isn't necessarily what they will consider most beautiful.

    This stuff was reported in Science News a couple or three years ago. I don't remember the author or title though.

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    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  9. Re:Not to mention the expense. by devbiowonk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Are you high? When are you going to use a gram of a restriction enzyme? A unit of restriction enzyme costs about $.10(check the NEB catalogue www.neb.com) and you would use about five units to digest one microgram of DNA to completion(overkill). Anyone can afford restriction endonucleases. Learn your basic molecular before you start spouting off about it. (I suggest a dose of Maniatas)