Live Vorbis Streams Over 802.11b From SXSW.com

Great concept... by SirGeek · 2003-03-15 16:21 · Score: 4, Funny

But how long until it gets harassed by the RIAA for paying the music fees ?

Re:Great concept... by pazaq · 2003-03-15 16:39 · Score: 1

They are probably safe because they are local clubs right. Only have fees on recorded music?
Re:Great concept... by RLiegh · 2003-03-15 18:52 · Score: 1

s/RIAA/TicketMaster/g ???
Re:Great concept... by fucksl4shd0t · 2003-03-15 19:36 · Score: 1

They are probably safe because they are local clubs right. Only have fees on recorded music?
Relevant to the existing broadcast and future broadcast, but I'd like to point out that the purpose of SxSW is to hookup poor starving musicians with greedy blood-sucking record labels. It serves no other appreciable purpose (except the corresponding film festival which is a different story entirely).
It's cool, but half-assed, since SxSW only exists to serve the RIAA in the long run anyway.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:Great concept... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 21:19 · Score: 0

the riaa can't say shit, because all of the bands are independant (they're fighting it out to not be).
Re:Great concept... by thrice+rocks! · 2003-03-15 21:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

SXSW is at least partially label-supported.

I intern at a record label that has several bands playing SXSW. Glancing at the other bands on the list, I can see that a number of others are doing the same. Understandable, considering that the festival has been going on since the 1980s. Even ASCAP is sponsoring bands.

While I don't know off the top of my head how royalties are being paid out, I can guarantee that the problem HAS been worked out. CBGB's has been streaming live and archived shows for some time now. This isn't a new concept - only the 802.11 aspect is new. The fact they are only playing live streams at SXSW makes life a little easier (royalty-wise, at least).
Re:Great concept... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-16 04:23 · Score: 0

The RIAA will never come hunting for fees at SxSW. They're nearly all unsigned bands! :)

You can download mp3s galore off of the SxSW website.

Whats the point? by unterderbrucke · 2003-03-15 16:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

I have to have a 802.11b receiver to listen, why not use an FM transciver?

I know it's cool and everything, but there's a fine line between being cool and useless (see flushing toilets vs. Thomas Jefferson's two documents at once copier)

Re:Whats the point? by tjohns · 2003-03-15 17:31 · Score: 5, Informative

I think you misunderstood...

They're not using WiFi to let people tune in, but rather to broadcast it. Since it looks like they're doing five different streams at a time, and I'm willing to bet that those places don't have the most accessible internet connections, they're using WiFi Texas to get a connection to each club. There, they've got G3 computers running Gentoo and some streaming software going. After it's encoded, they use the wireless to send it to their XServe (also running Gentoo), which streams it to the internet at large.

Personally, I think this qualifies as being "cool."
Re:Whats the point? by evilviper · 2003-03-15 18:34 · Score: 3, Informative

why not use an FM transciver?

Since when have digital FM radios been available? Can you operate them without an FCC license? Can you send lyrics, video and images in a digital FM broadcast? Can you operate thousands of digital FM transmissions from one transmitter?

Yes, I know the poster missed the point (that's not even what they are doing), but WiFi radio has some serious advantages.

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:Whats the point? by ramzak2k · 2003-03-15 18:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

wouldnt make a difference to general listening but it is definitely an innovation. Think of the possibilities :

What if they could ask what song the users would like to be played next and switch accordingly based upon wishes of the majority ?

What if they could generate a system where people could rate songs over the same Wifi (using PDAs maybe) and systems are in place to determine what might be played next.

What if they are able to transmit the mp3 tags of the songs also so that you can rush to the CD store and get the album for that one song ?

--

Siggy Say, Siggy Do
Re:Whats the point? by ziplux · 2003-03-15 19:15 · Score: 1

And what if we got off this damn stupid broadcast model? I want on-demand music and movies...I don't want to have to call up some DJ to be able to listen to a song.
Re:Whats the point? by harriet+nyborg · 2003-03-15 19:59 · Score: 0

"I have to have a 802.11b receiver to listen, why not use an FM transceiver." why not indeed? there are far more spectrally efficient ways to transmit digital radio than using a horribly inefficient wireless LAN protocol like 802.11b. the sad truth is that they are 802.11b to broadcast radio because no one is using 802.11b for what it was intended. if it was being used for what it was designed for - wireless internet access - legitimate users would howl over attack on their bandwidth instead of saying "cool" i can listen to the radio over my PC. this explains why wireless is taking off like howard hughes' spruce goose. it's all this "if you built it, they will come, bullshit." they built a baseball diamond, but users want to play basketball.
Re:Whats the point? by ramzak2k · 2003-03-15 20:10 · Score: 1

On demand models wouldnt be cost effective. The difference between broadcast & on demand music would be analogous to using the public transport instead of driving your car. Hybrid systems that take user feedback would ideally fall between the two extremes.

--

Siggy Say, Siggy Do
Re:Whats the point? by beastman2 · 2003-03-15 21:16 · Score: 1

You DO NOT need to have 802.11b! SXSW is using 802.11b to broadcast back to the Austin Convention Center, where the icecast server is. Everyone on the net could listen.
Re:Whats the point? by nick_urbanik · 2003-03-15 21:34 · Score: 1, Funny

What if they could ask what song the users would like to be played next and switch accordingly based upon wishes of the majority ?

Oh great, then we can hear Britney Spears nonstop! (Get back in line, you perverted old Zappa fans.)

And Linksys starts shaking.. by Aliencow · 2003-03-15 16:23 · Score: 5, Funny

..thinking about the RIAA, 802.11b streaming music possibilities, and the fact they're a leader in residential WiFi equipment !

Re:And Linksys starts shaking.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 17:32 · Score: 0

I mean, how outlandish is this entire concept, music being streamed over the airwaves for all to hear at the cost of nothing?!? It's an outrage, what next... reps from RIAA member companies giving the owners of these "stations" free crack and cars just so they play their latest records, ha, as if, get with the real world!

would it work? by SHEENmaster · 2003-03-15 16:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

My pda's pitiful cf card would be hard pressed to send that GET request over to their WAP. Can anyone report on the usable range of the broadcasts?

--
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

This seems odd... by mbourgon · 2003-03-15 16:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

9) An Apple Xserve, also running Gentoo Linux
Why not run OS X? Seems more, um, natural.

And I'm kicking myself over missing Pineforest Crunch! Dammit....drummer from Anglagard!

--
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples

Re:This seems odd... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 23:02 · Score: 0

Why not run OS X? Seems more, um, natural.
Why not run GNU/Linux? Seems more, um, free.
Re:This seems odd... by class_A · 2003-03-16 01:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well you get OS X Server installed on the XServe when you buy it.

You also get QuickTime Streaming Server:
"You can serve standard MP3 files using Icecast-compatible protocols over http. Build a playlist of MP3 files and serve them to MP3 clients such as iTunes, SoundJam, WinAmp, or QuickTime Player for a simulated live experience."

So that takes care of Icecast streaming.

Then they could also use the free QuickTime Broadcaster in the clubs for a full GUI experience. They'd also then be able to use the XServe Remote Monitoring application to check on the server whilst in the club.

If these guys wanted to go Open Source, wonder why they didn't use x86 and take advantage of hardware cost savings too.

Unfortunately by damiam · 2003-03-15 16:32 · Score: 5, Informative

The sound quality sorta sucks. It not vorbis's fault - I can't really hear artifacts. It's just the mics/equipment/soundcards they're using, I guess.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.

Re:Unfortunately by bluxus · 2003-03-15 18:33 · Score: 1

I've been to a few venues to catch some shows in Austin. Sometimes I wonder what the sound people are up to. It's almost as if they want to make blood gush right out of your ears.
Re:Unfortunately by gmby · 2003-03-15 19:04 · Score: 1

Real bad sound. I guess that's what happens when you use cheap battery powered cond. mics and poor sound cards. Also bet it's the bands and/or the venues lack of a "sound man"; but that's what you get in a cheap bar and not a concert hall.

But all-in-all it's great to see someone useing 802.11 for some remote feeds.

I think I'll check back at a later date and see if it gets better.

--
I don't want a pickle; I just want a Motor-Cycle! A four foot cop arrived with a five foot gun!
Re:Unfortunately by bluxus · 2003-03-15 19:13 · Score: 1

The amazing thing is that pretty much all of these venues have sound people. Guys(mostly) that sit behind a giant mixer hooked up to the PA and talk to the band as they set up, "checking" the quality of the kick drum, snare, what have you. I suppose they might have some bad equipment in there as well, but it seems that they really are not setting up right or something, because the blood really does come right out of your ears. Some of these venues are really small, intimate even, and they just have the PA blasting what is already being blasted from large amps and the bands stuff. The blood...
Re:Unfortunately by Phroggy · 2003-03-15 19:34 · Score: 1

Why pay a sound guy who knows what the hell he's doing, when your neighbor's kid claims he can run sound and costs a lot less?

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Unfortunately by sheimers · 2003-03-15 20:20 · Score: 1

The bad sound quality is not due to poor equipment. The microphone is just too far from the stage, that's all. They probably just put a computer in a back corner of the room, with a microphone on top of it.

This will never take off by worst_name_ever · 2003-03-15 16:34 · Score: 4, Funny

I predict this service will fail. After all, who would possibly be interested in listening to music broadcast via "radio waves" ?

--

In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.

Re:This will never take off by mcrbids · 2003-03-15 17:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ultimately, it doesn't come down to the medium used, it doesn't come down to the neat technology, or the gentoo Linux. it all boils down simply and only to this:

Does it provide something people will pay enough for?

Yes, it's neat. I get to hear musicians play music that's not well mixed (it never is "live" unless you spend serious dough) and has alot of background music. (Plates clattering, etc)

But live music is best served... live! Right in front of you!

Live music is when you can experience the sights and smells. It's the sparkle in the eye of your wife (or hopefully, at least girlfriend) as you eat a delicious plate of Italian food, whilst a musician plays to your left.

It's the look of giddy happiness on my lovely 11 y.o. daughter, dancing at a "Concert in the Park" held downtown on a hot summer eve.

It's seeing the attempts by the musician to truly communicate with the audience. It's an interactive, feedback-driven experience.

Recorded music is canned, and attempts to compensate with impeccable mixing and special effects.

One of the most memorable renditions of music I've seen recently was a bum on the street. He appeared to be mildly intoxicated, but had an old catgut guitar. He asked for alms, we agreed but demanded a tune.

I then heard one of the most intense renditions of "Candle in the Wind" I've ever heard. It was unpolished, rough, and a few of the chords were simply wrong. But he played with heart and soul, and gave it all he had.

He earned a few bucks from me, but you could never capture soul and feeling like that if you played it through speakers.

-Ben

--
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Re:This will never take off by Trolling4Dollars · 2003-03-15 19:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

To each his own. I hate "live" music. It's so... imperfect. I have a friend who swears up and down that live jazz sounds better, but all the jazz shows I've gone to see (a good number since my wife loves jazz) have pretty crappy production values. On the other hand, give me any album by Lyle Mays and I'll be on cloud nine. There is just something wonderful about well produced music that retains artistic integrity. Crap like Britney and Christina need not apply. The production is pretty shoddy there too.

Then there is also music that just sounds awesome because it is totally artificial. Check out the latest glitch stuff by the likes of Plaid, Autechre and DNTEL. That stuff really gets inside your head and moves you more than any old bum with a beat guitar ever could. Of course... it's all subjective. Chances are if you liked the bum, you probably won't like a clean square wave being modulated six ways to Sunday...

And that's the point. It's all subjective. I hate live music. But I love electronica. But that's just me. :P

--
Un-news
Re:This will never take off by fucksl4shd0t · 2003-03-15 19:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

To each his own. I hate "live" music. It's so... imperfect. I have a friend who swears up and down that live jazz sounds better, but all the jazz shows I've gone to see (a good number since my wife loves jazz) have pretty crappy production values. On the other hand, give me any album by Lyle Mays and I'll be on cloud nine. There is just something wonderful about well produced music that retains artistic integrity.
Actually, you're both right. :) That's what makes the two completely different mediums thrive.
A Concert in the Park is one of the most exhilirhating experiences I've ever had, personally, (and yes, when you come from Texas, you have a lot of sex). Evening at town lake is a beautiful place, and to add music to the mix along with all the friendly drunk Texans. It's just a great thing. Hell, even the stupid 4th of July fireworks at town lake is cool, even with the stupid symphony playing.
There's also quite a few stupid little bars that have nothing but a bar, a few tables, and a stage. Literally half the joint will be the stage. Then they get some stupid blues guys up there that don't give a shit, just want to make some music and take a few tips. Warmest music I've ever heard. Or you can check the The Jazz, if they're still around. That's a pretty entertaining place. Good drinks, I never ate the food there.
On the other hand, there are all kinds of flaws in the sound of live music. That's the nature of the medium. With recorded music, you lose the atmosphere (or you create your own), you lost any chance the artist has at creating an atmosphere for you, and it's just you and the music. Luckily, there's plenty that can be offered here.
I used to prefer recorded music myself, because live music is such a pain in the ass to see. Then I found myself down in the middle of the mosh pit when Anthrax opened for that stupid Texas metal band and I finally got a good, strong understanding of what live music is all about.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:This will never take off by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-16 01:13 · Score: 0

(and yes, when you come from Texas, you have a lot of sex)
Livestock doesn't count.
Re:This will never take off by cjsnell · 2003-03-16 03:08 · Score: 2, Funny

One of the most memorable renditions of music I've seen recently was a bum on the street. He appeared to be mildly intoxicated, but had an old catgut guitar. He asked for alms, we agreed but demanded a tune.

I then heard one of the most intense renditions of "Candle in the Wind" I've ever heard. It was unpolished, rough, and a few of the chords were simply wrong.

Hey, I'll tell you what...Pay me twenty bucks and get me drunk and I'll play for you guys all night! I'll even get the chords right! (well, most of them, anyway)

Live! by DraconPern · 2003-03-15 16:35 · Score: 1

"SXSW - Live!" Not anymore.

OH hell yeah.... by atarione · 2003-03-15 16:35 · Score: 1

now I have something to listen to this weekend... I didn't know I could turn in on the net. oh yeah and's its kinda neat that they can stream it with the wireless gear. and one more thing.... check the volume on your speakers before connecting to 'Mercury' cause they are not kidding it is LOUD.

--
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.

EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 16:36 · Score: 0

What is one ninth?

ALG: 1 / 9 =
4 keystrokes
RPN: 9 1/x
2 keystrokes

Re:EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 16:55 · Score: 0

Huh?
How is that only two keystrokes?
ALG wins again!
Re:EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 17:17 · Score: 0

it's 2 keystrokes. Pressing 9 puts 9 on the stack. Pressing the '1/x' key inverts 9.

Yes, there is a '1/x' key.
Re:EPN example by ShadowDrake · 2003-03-15 17:25 · Score: 0, Offtopic

May I ask a really stupid question:

Why exactly are you arguing about RPN or algebraic calculators in this, and seemingly every, other thread.

I have two comments on the subject:

-RPN does seem convinent for certain tasks, but algebraic notation is convinent on graphical calculators because you can write up an intricate calculation in a familiar form, making proofing easy.

-If I want RPN, what are my choices anyway? HP or HP? I happen to like Casios-- they're dirt-cheap (often 2/3 the price of the analogous TI) and have some clever features (colour!)

--
It's just like a fascist dictatorship, without the punctual rail service!
Re:EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 17:40 · Score: 0

May I ask a really stupid question:

shoot

Why exactly are you arguing about RPN or algebraic calculators in this, and seemingly every, other thread?

I used to do it purely to promote RPN, but lately I simply try to piss the TI borg off. That's the dude who replies to every RPN comment with 'ALG wins again!' or something similair.

Also, now HP are making new calculators, I wish to drum up business.

Finally, getting offtopic mods rarely results in an IP ban. Posting 'Michael's a Jerk' comments gets me kicked for days at a time :-(

I have two comments on the subject:

-RPN does seem convinent for certain tasks, but algebraic notation is convinent on graphical calculators because you can write up an intricate calculation in a familiar form, making proofing easy.

True. The HP designers thought of that and included an 'equation writer' for those who prefer alg for large symbolic formulaes.

However, if you set the HP to 'symbolic mode' it is extremebly easy to use RPN for symbolic formulaes. You don't just see a number each time, but instead you see your formula growing.

-If I want RPN, what are my choices anyway? HP or HP? I happen to like Casios-- they're dirt-cheap (often 2/3 the price of the analogous TI) and have some clever features (colour!)

You like the casio colour screen? I always thought it looked far too washed out. Each to his own, I suppose.

You can get RPN shells for TI calc too, I believe.
Re:EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 18:16 · Score: 0

Most non-RPN calculators have a 1/x key, homes. The one on mine executes immediately... 2 keystrokes.
Re:EPN example by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 18:31 · Score: 0

Guess what sherlock....

You're calculator is using (shudder) RPN!

Meet me on mercury by ignoramus · 2003-03-15 16:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

Wow. This is neat - listening to a live feed of a show somewhere in TX. There's a good show at the Mercury at this very moment (23:30 EST).

The only thing missing is a beer and a bit of meta-info included in the stream (e.g. the band and tune names).

Re:Meet me on mercury by trelanexiph · 2003-03-15 18:53 · Score: 1, Informative

While Icecast does support metadata, without a plugin to xmms or the source or whatnot (some poor sob typing) Ices cannot send metadata onto icecast.
Re:Meet me on mercury by phavens · 2003-03-15 19:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

What I find interesting is the fact that they didn't plug into the sound mixer directly. It sounds as though they are using cheap mics plugged into the sound card instead of a balanced feed out of the mixer.
NOTE: I had done sound for a number of years including situations where I had to setup up "hard of hearing" systems. The easiest thing to do was just treat the HOH system as a different monitor. (The boards I worked on typically had at least two seperate monitor channels... And one had five)

--
Patrick Havens (Mr. 573333 to you.) Graphic Artist / Coder / Father / Journeler
Re:Meet me on mercury by beastman2 · 2003-03-15 21:29 · Score: 1

"Somewhere" is Austin, Texas! The Live Music capital of the world!

So, how much... by Elbereth · 2003-03-15 16:38 · Score: 1

How much does it cost to have your site get announced/advertised on the Slashdot front page?

Junkbuster can't kill those ads. It's an ingenious idea.

Re:So, how much... by BrookHarty · 2003-03-15 17:15 · Score: 1

* Seems rather easy to replace. ;) I dont mind slashdot offering stuff I might actually like, streaming music, free code, new opensource products, games, new free services. And hell, icecast stream on a wifi relay with repeaters, of a music festival to an Apple Xserver running gentoo linux seems rather inventive. Even thou some of the streams are too soft, good first step. Now if I could just find out what band is playing, and go check em out on garageband.com
Re:So, how much... by gazuga · 2003-03-15 17:27 · Score: 1

Hate to burst your bubble, but SXSW doesn't really need slashdot to "advertise" for it. I've been a couple of times, and I live in Austin. There are multitudes of people here to catch all of the music and there has been since last Wednesday -- SXSW is huge *every* year.

And if you can't be here, why not listen to it over the net? I really don't understand your gripe...

--
"I turn away with fright and horror from the lamentable evil of functions which do not have derivatives."
Re:So, how much... by fucksl4shd0t · 2003-03-15 19:48 · Score: 1

And if you can't be here, why not listen to it over the net? I really don't understand your gripe...
I forgot to buy my wristband, and KLBJ won't give me one, the bastards.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:So, how much... by errxn · 2003-03-16 09:16 · Score: 1

SXSW doesn't really need slashdot to "advertise" for it

Hell no they don't, not when they're charging people $100+ for wristbands to get in the clubs and bands $20 a pop just to apply (except for the handpicked acts who have deals with the major labels, of course). And those bands number in the thousands, to say the very least. Thank you for your 20 bucks, have a nice day.

SXSW is a bigger ripoff *every* year.

And yeah, I live in Austin, too.

--
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.

Re:This will never take off-ClearChannel by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 16:40 · Score: 0

...sssshhh ClearChannel will hear you.

Area by jmays · 2003-03-15 16:41 · Score: 0

With the limited range of WiFi 802.11b does this really matter that much? I prefer my own mix from my in-dash MP3 player!

--
KARMA TAG! You're it.

Re:Area by Burmese · 2003-03-15 17:20 · Score: 2, Informative

They are using WiFi to collect the streams. You can listen to them over the Internet anywhere in the world.

--
~\_/~\_O Burmese
Re:Area by jmays · 2003-03-15 17:27 · Score: 1

Ah. Thank you. I read a couple of things incorrectly. I am still happy with my in-dash MP3 player though ;)

--
KARMA TAG! You're it.

Psychic powers? by arvindn · 2003-03-15 16:48 · Score: 3, Funny

DISCLAIMER: These streams may be intermittent if they appear at all.

When they wrote that, they already know they were going to get slashdotted?

Re:Psychic powers? by Ziviyr · 2003-03-15 19:33 · Score: 1

The point was that they were using coathangers for ethernet cabling and stuff.

--

Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!

Re:What plays OGG? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 16:53 · Score: 0

Winamp, hello?

true! (trollacide) by timothy · 2003-03-15 16:55 · Score: 5, Funny

True, without WMP support, Ogg has no chance.

Unless they decide to support this crazy upstart format in some other player -- WinAmp would be a good start, since a lot of people use WinAmp. Maybe if they put Ogg support in WinAmp, and if some games start to use it (showing that it's a useful, sustainable format for professional developers), and ... hmmm, maybe some hardware players, too, or at least some handhelds / PDAs that can play this newfangled format. And maybe if people in the music industry take notice of it, that would help -- but that's asking a lot, eh?

If any of those things happen, I think Ogg Vorbis has a chance. But I guess it's toast for now.

Oh. Never mind. As Number One once said. "Ahem. That, also, has already happened."

timothy

--
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5

Re:true! (trollacide) by MP3Chuck · 2003-03-15 17:40 · Score: 1

"Maybe if they put Ogg support in WinAmp,"
It's had OGG support since version 2

"and if some games start to use it (showing that it's a useful, sustainable format for professional developers)"
Unreal Tournament 2003 uses only OGG format music.

"and ... hmmm, maybe some hardware players, too,"
Portables!

--
Who doesn't like free music?
Re:true! (trollacide) by MP3Chuck · 2003-03-15 17:42 · Score: 1

Sorry, I totally misread your post!

--
Who doesn't like free music?
Re:true! (trollacide) by shfted! · 2003-03-15 19:01 · Score: 1

Oh. Never mind. As Number One once said. "Ahem. That, also, has already happened." Number One never said that. It's just not Riker's character. But Number Two, Dr. Evil's main man just might have...

--
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.

Dixie Chicks by BrookHarty · 2003-03-15 17:04 · Score: 3, Funny

Are the Dixie Chicks also banned from these streaming music channels from Texas?

-
Well, let's see how fast this sumbitch'll go!

Re:Dixie Chicks by SLot · 2003-03-15 18:18 · Score: 2, Funny

Are the Dixie Chicks also banned from these streaming music channels from Texas?

For fans of music everywhere, we can only hope so.

on the contrary by timothy · 2003-03-15 17:14 · Score: 1

"You are very fat."

No -- I'm a little fatter than I'd like to be, but I'm certainly not *very* fat. In a baggy shirt, it's hard to tell that I'm not still skinny, in fact.

However, speaking of Ogg Vorbis, grip does a great job of ripping and squashing my CDs to Ogg files. Right now I'm on my 7th disk of the day, listening to some early Bob Marley in about 1/10th the storage space of the originals. Even q -1 is far better than I had expected, though I don't see a way to use quality settings (as opposed to bitrates) in grip.

The way I like files ripped with grip is like this:

platonic ideal: zero-padded tracknumber, underscore, trackname, underscore, bitrate, the letter "b", dot, ogg

example: 03_my_aim_is_true_128b.ogg

To achieve this:
under grip/config/mp3/encoder, specify this as the "MP3 file format":

"~/ogg/%A/%d/%t_%n_%bb.ogg" (less the quotes -- those are just there to make clear what to type :)

timothy

--
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5

Correction by Brandeissansoo · 2003-03-15 17:14 · Score: 4, Funny

SXSW.com in Austin, Texas HAD a group of computers in various music venues around town.

re: what's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 17:21 · Score: 0

> The ices/icecast stream is sent over 802.11 to a main server at SXSW.

You don't need an 802.11. In fact, they probably have that link encrypted, so it wouldn't help if you had 802.11.

What makes this exciting... by anubi · 2003-03-15 17:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

From the Ogg Vorbis page, I quote:

"What is Ogg Vorbis?
Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding and streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source."

To me, any time we start developing a technology which can be freely used by all without worry of the letter in the mail, its cause for celebration.

They are testing it, and the better the tools we have in the box, the better we can do a job. And thats the end result isn't it? Getting from here to there with a minimum of effort.

I use the efforts of others daily, and it is my hope that before I leave this planet, I can leave something for others.

--
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

Digital Radio by ExEleven · 2003-03-15 17:30 · Score: 1

Here in australia, the goverment tries to keep our country upto date, apparently they are funding radio stations to switch to digital radio. It will be as bad as digital phones where when they came out many years ago. Hellonfgfh this is fgfgfm your number #1 inteference shopgfjgfljg.

Re:Digital Radio by mikeb · 2003-03-15 22:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've been listening to DAB radio here in the UK for over a year. The old band II TV stations (around 2/300 MHz) were kicked off the air to make room for digital sound broadcasting. Receivers are still expensive but some good stuff is coming along now at slightly lower cost (e.g. combined DAB/MP3 portable player for around $300 US.).

I have to say that I'm a fan. You can argue about the sound quality but for overall listening experience, for me, it beats FM hands down. I live in a marginal reception area for most VHF/UHF broadcasts (can't really get digital terrestrial TV) but the DAB radio is 100% solid.

not optimal by TheSHAD0W · 2003-03-15 17:32 · Score: 1

Without special software, say, receiving the streams over the broadcast address, 802.11b would be an awful way to deliver audio. Each stream would require discrete bandwidth from the connection. Is a broadcast method being used?

Re:not optimal by revmoo · 2003-03-15 18:20 · Score: 1

I hadn't thought about that, instead of each wifi AP sending out one stream and others tuning into it, it uses bandwidth for each listener, and with the limited bandwidth of wifi, that has to be a horrible waste of bandwidth.

It seems like if someone wrote a listening program(or plugin for winamp maybe), that put the card into promiscuous mode and grabbed the broadcast that way it would work. Now someone just needs to implement it :)

--
I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
Re:not optimal by wifitexas · 2003-03-15 18:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, the 802.11b network only needs to carry one stream per bar or stage, these single streams are served to the remote listeners via the Ogg Vorbis gateway - and this is on a wired network. Meanwhile, the 802.11b network is carrying other traffic, email and browsing, at the same time as the streaming audio. The links are thousands of feet apart. Winamp 2.81 has the plugin for Ogg already. The target user is somewhere far from this WiFi network.
Re:not optimal by revmoo · 2003-03-15 19:38 · Score: 1

Actually, the 802.11b network only needs to carry one stream per bar or stage

I understand that, you seem to be missing my point. Having to have a seperate connection for each individual user is an absurd waste of bandwidth. Granted, it probably doesn't matter than much just at a small bar, but what if you wanted to broadcast ogg over wifi to a larger audience? It just doesn't make sense to have to have a seperate connection for each individual listener, especially if you are broadcasting audio.

--
I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
Re:not optimal by TheSHAD0W · 2003-03-16 01:44 · Score: 1

I don't *think* you'd need to put the card into promiscuous mode if the streams were served over the broadcast address; i.e., xx.xx.xx.255 (your network may vary). Trouble is, I don't know of any standard streaming software that'd be able to tune into it. It should only take some minor tweaks to do so, though.
Re:not optimal by p3d0 · 2003-03-16 02:17 · Score: 1

No, you're missing the point. The listeners are not using WiFi. It's only used to get the audio from the venue to the server.
You do have a point that WiFi can't replace radio without first having broadcast capability. However, that has no bearing on what they're doing in Austin, so be careful of accusing people of missing the point when they are merely staying on topic.

--
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....

Also being re^broadcasted on Peercast. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 17:48 · Score: 1, Informative

Buffalo Billiards, Emo`s Jr. and Beerland is also being broadcasted on Peercast at the moment.

http://www.peercast.org

tourist? night life? RIAA no involvement? by sublime99 · 2003-03-15 17:50 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is a very neat idea that utilitizes machines that seem to be already in place and it is great for tourist. They can insert wireless cards in rental cars, then the people driving around the city could listen to the music in the car. Good way to get the night life broadcasted all over. Have different "stations" with different types of music for people to find something they like, while waiting for that parking spot.

My question is would the RIAA be involved in this? If the artists they are broadcasting on this station give them permission to do this. Wouldn't it be out of the RIAA's hands, since the artist gave them permission? I know there are bands like the Grateful Dead, Dave Matthews, and Phish who allowed live recording at their shows fre of charge. You just have to bring your own recording equipment.

Re:tourist? night life? RIAA no involvement? by smart.id · 2003-03-15 17:59 · Score: 1

Insert wireless cards in rental cars? Sure, and they will plug right into that Windows/Linux computer that's built into every car! Your idea is interesting, but impractical. It would probably cost tons more money to implement this idea then people would pay to get this "special feature," especially if they're not going to be in the area.

--
blog & fiction: jd87
Re:tourist? night life? RIAA no involvement? by anubi · 2003-03-15 19:35 · Score: 1

Sublime illustrates a good use of this technology.
"They can insert wireless cards in rental cars, then the people driving around the city could listen to the music in the car. Good way to get the night life broadcasted all over."

I betcha its not going to be far off when our cellphones can pick up this data and retransmit it, via bluetooth, to the car's standard bluetooth-enabled sound system.
Note I did not say all cars would have a fullbore computer system, but I do predict its not that big of a step to have their sound systems accessible to bluetooth systems so that any bluetooth-enabled phones, laptops, PDA's, or anything else that could use external speakers could use it. Seems like it should be about as common as earphone jacks.

--
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Re:tourist? night life? RIAA no involvement? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 20:04 · Score: 0

or maybe they could...oh, i don't know, listen to the fm radio which is already installed in the car. fight for the local independant radio station, not for another dumb way to implement 802.11x

Poor Me by AlgebraicSpore · 2003-03-15 18:01 · Score: 1

I wish I had known about this at one in the morning today. One of my favorite bands, The Fire Theft, but unfortunatly I could not make the hour drive to Austin. Oh well, at least now I can laugh at the screaming drunk people that can be heard over the broadcasts with out having to breathe their second hand smoke.

Wrong Idea? by menasius · 2003-03-15 18:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

It seems to me a lot of posts deal with streaming music over 802.11b to the end user.

However, I took this to be kinda a portable internet brodcasting expirement, in that their ISP is a wireless one. Thus, just like your local radio station can broadcast from a bar during a live performance, so can these fellows. The difference being they dont have to be at a venue that came pre-wired for internet.

As a means of delivery to the end user, I agree, why complicate things with making it an internet stream when there is good ol FM.

However, as the way I saw it, its bringing some benefits that an FM station can have to the realm of an Internet station.

-bart

Hmmm by Brad+Moore · 2003-03-15 18:29 · Score: 1

I think I've seen this before...

multicast? by Doppler00 · 2003-03-15 18:34 · Score: 1

Does this server use multicast over 802.11? I can't imagine it supporting more than a couple dozen clients. And given the limited range of 802.11b how useful is this really?

Re:multicast? by trelanexiph · 2003-03-15 19:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

valid point, for streaming mediums other than wired point to point setups, (or basically wireless broadcast to the masses, a stateless streaming setup would be much more scalable, with minimal if any client return data)
Re:multicast? by trelanexiph · 2003-03-15 19:13 · Score: 1

just in addendum however, this would require a serious rewrite of the current "shoutcast style" media servers. Shoutcast style servers are basically glorified HTTP servers, run on a different port. The stream itself is a "mountpoint (really a URL location)". A stateless setup would have to simply broadcast out over the wifi channel (Say at the broadcast address) and just disappear into space if noone is listening. Basically the switch from active to passive streaming should be noted here. Perhaps a DHCP style mechanism to log in, and the client just recieves the stream from the broadcast.

last year at SXSW by yawnmoth · 2003-03-15 18:39 · Score: 1

last year at SXSW, a leaked copy of Star Wars ep II was reviewed... this year, all we get is some streaming ogg vorbis!? ack! where the hell is the review the leaked matrix reloaded!? i mean, tsk, tsk, tsk... SXSW is really begining to disappoint me!

-- for news, visit slashdot.org
-- for community, visit us!

icecast over 802.11 by trelanexiph · 2003-03-15 18:40 · Score: 1

This is really pretty cool, and is more or less how I tested icecast over the lan... I hope my neighbors wern't listening.

How to listen, how many can listen by wifitexas · 2003-03-15 18:48 · Score: 4, Informative

The player you need (if on Windows) is Winamp 2.81, it could be that RealAudio owns the m3u filetype, but if you can point .m3u to Winamp, it will work. The 802.11b link is only used for one stream per stage, the icecast server takes this one stream and sends it out to thousands of users at once over a wired LAN. So far, the capacity of the server has not been met. We would like to know what the limit is. If were to roam onto the WiFi network (ssid = wifi-texas), then you would actually get your streams from the icecast server, not from the stage system directly. Because of distance limits, Line Of Sight problems, and other factors, three or four wireless hops connect each stage to the icecast server. hope this helps.

(mortified) by timothy · 2003-03-15 19:17 · Score: 1

Yes, you are correct, and I am embarrassed. How could I have forgotten "*WHO* *DOES* *NUMBER TWO* *WORK* *FOR?!*"

Thanks -- now I'll have to go to bed a shattered wreck, a shell that once might have been a man, a solitary figure curling into the nothingness that only smug misquoting can engender ...

There's always tomorrow, though.

timothy

--
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5

Re:(mortified) by shfted! · 2003-03-15 20:27 · Score: 1

Timothy, you've just made yourself a friend ;) I've read several of your posts before, and so often do i laugh! One minor mistake to yet another hilarious comment means nothing.

--
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.

listened to the live stream for an hour or so by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 19:20 · Score: 0

Crapy chick rock band with a million people in the bar. At first i thought it was ok then I realized why people bar hop.

Why So Late? by kmellis · 2003-03-15 21:18 · Score: 1

Why is this story only appearing now? SXSW has been going on for days, and it is just now ended.

Re:Why So Late? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-16 06:55 · Score: 0

we had some wireless probs. are you volunteering for next year?

But wait! by JoshWurzel · 2003-03-15 22:09 · Score: 1

Does it play MP3's?

My, how the tables have turned.

may be OT... by kotj.mf · 2003-03-16 08:03 · Score: 1

...maybe not. But well, hell.

I've been trying to stream some ogg files at really low bitrates (24 nominal) on my site via straight .m3u, ie, no streaming server.

It works just peachy in xmms, but Winamp (2 and 3) just downloads the playlist and chokes; v3 will say it's trying to play a 300+ kbs, 12 sec file.

My host won't let me install a streaming server, and I'd really rather use ogg than mp3.

Anybody got any ideas? They don't seem to have any at #vorbis. Danke.

--
hang brain.

Wholly radio, batman! by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2003-03-16 08:03 · Score: 1

But how long until it gets harassed by the RIAA for paying the music fees ?

Good grief! Streaming to a multicast or broadcast address over unencrypted (or WEP encrypted with a key published in conjunction with an appropriate open license) 802.11b is broadcast radio, yet legal without FCC license.

If the wording of the federal mandatory license agrees (or a court says it does), this could be a way for a local commercial webcaster to come under that license, rather than the CARP rules.

(And doesn't "CARP" have the A and R swapped?)

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Re:on the contrary-OGG grows up. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-16 12:29 · Score: 0

"Steve Cook, a DesktopLinux.com reader, relates his experience setting up Linux in the professional recording studio -- including a switch to the Ogg Vorbis audio format. Increased productivity, greater stability, tighter security, lower costs, and a higher quality finished product are all reasons this station switched without missing a beat . ."

Linux in the Professional Recording Studio

As you can see ogg is slowly making it's way into professional settings.

Slashdot Mirror

Live Vorbis Streams Over 802.11b From SXSW.com

118 comments