New XCOR Rocket Engine Passes First Test

apsmith writes "XCOR Aerospace just successfully test-fired their new liquid oxygen/kerosene rocket engine. This is significantly more powerful than the engines used in the XCOR EZ-Rocket vehicle, and will be further developed for use in the Xerus suborbital vehicle. XCOR is one of the serious X-Prize contenders, and partly funded by John Carmack of Id and Armadillo Aerospace (Carmack's in-his-free-time X-prize contender)."

Comments

Cost Effective?

[Hayzeus]

So, will this be a cost effective way to launch Lance Bass into space?

Note that omitting a reentry vehicle could substantially save on fuel costs.

Re:Cost Effective?

[Anonvmous Coward]

"So, will this be a cost effective way to launch Lance Bass into space?"

Absolutely. We'd all contribute to that fund. The real question is whether or not it'd be a cost effective way to send anything else into space.

That's one small boost for man,..

[DarkBlackFox]

...and one step closer to getting me off this rock.

What do you reckon..

[nath_o_brien]

...their new liquid oxygen/kerosene rocket engine

What do you reckon the chances are of me being able to get hold of one of these babies for my car?

Only one word to describe this news...

[TopShelf]

X-ellent!!!

I can hear it now

[novakane007]

"Geeks! In Space!!!"

Danger???

[st0rmcold]

I'm no scientist, but I am aware that liquid oxygen or LOX as it's reffered tho happens to be compressed oxygen (approx. 4000 times the amount that in the air), and this will dramatically increase the speed that a shuttle will be incinerated during a disaster, as the LOX will feed the explosions.

With advancements comes risk in my opinion.

Anybody who knows more then me, would be able to soothe my thoughts and tell me someone on such a shuttle would have a chance of survival is this were to leak?

Re:Danger???

[Migraineman]

Oxygen, by itself, won't hurt you. If the O2 tank leaks, you end up breathing a slightly more oxygen-rich atmosphere. The EZ-Rocket carries the O2 tank in place of the passenger seat, primarily because it won't kill the pilot if it vents.

The fuel (alcohol in earlier prototypes, kerosene for this one) is carried in a separate tank slung below the fuselage. It's outside the aircraft frame.

If you've taken fire safety training, you know that there are three components that are required for a fire - fuel, oxidizer, and heat. Remove any one, and you don't have a fire. When you're fueling you car, the gasonline doesn't spontaneously ignite with the oxygen in the air, right? Add heat and you've got a fire, though.

So, if you keep the fuel, oxidizer and heat in controlled environments, you'll survive the flight just fine. If the O2 tank ruptures, you should probably worry more about schrapnel or the overpressure.

Re:Danger???

[SuperBanana]

I'm no scientist, but I am aware that liquid oxygen or LOX as it's reffered tho happens to be compressed oxygen (approx. 4000 times the amount that in the air), and this will dramatically increase the speed that a shuttle will be incinerated during a disaster, as the LOX will feed the explosions.

The current shuttle uses liquid oxygen, by the way, along with(surprise) liquid hydrogen. Together they fuel the orbiter's engines. The boosters on the side are solid-fuel motors and once they're lit, they don't go out until the fuel's burned.

Incidentally, every rocket fuel of one kind or another has to have some oxidizer, or it won't work in space(think that one through.) Most rockets for non-space applications have oxidizers, too, because it's hard to get oxygen from the air mixed in with fuel fast/well enough to be useful(this is why ramjets were so 'neat', they don't need to carry oxidizer, but can generate enormous amounts of thrust at incredible speeds.)

The orbiter also uses hydrazine for the auxiliary power units and firing thrusters(I think), and a half dozen other things that go 'boom' or are very nasty. That's the whole point behind rocket fuel- burning it has to release a LOT of energy for its weight.

Re:Danger???

[Thag]

Incidentally, every rocket fuel of one kind or another has to have some oxidizer, or it won't work in space(think that one through.)

Most do, but not all. Hydrogen Peroxide is often used by itself as a monopropellant rocket fuel, for instance: just run it past a platinum screen and it reacts all on its own, no air required. However, it doesn't put out nearly as much thrust as kerosene and LOX.

Jon Acheson

Re:Danger???

[Qzukk]

Oxygen Poisoning info

It looks like oxygen toxicity begins at about 10 times sea-level partial pressure of oxygen (article cites 29 lb/sqin). How stuff works explains that the process is very dependent on both pressure (not % of atmosphere!) and time. Early astronauts used 100% oxygen atmospheres at a low pressure without any problems.

Re:Danger???

[jandrese]

Refueling fires are in the category of freak accidents these days and almost everybody uses self serve (except in those states were it's illegal for some reason). Cars dissipate static electiricty fairly quickly, and the no-smoking rule is a no brainer.

In other words, don't be stupid when refueling, but you don't have to be totally paranoid either. A touch of commmon sense reduces the chance of an accident to "act of god" probabilites.

Re:Danger???

[rossifer]

Actually, if you were a scuba diver and used oxygen enriched breathing mixes (aka Nitrox), you'd know that the risk of a CNS OxTox hit (a central nervous system seizure due to oxygen toxicity) significantly separates from zero at a ppO2 between 1.6ata and 2.0ata... pretty far from 10.0ata.

Much of my scuba diving is limited by this number. I usually dive EAN32 (32%O2 68%N2) for my recreational diving, and at 128fsw (the local pressure equivalent to a column of salt water 128 feet tall with 1ata on the top), the ppO2 is 1.6ata. That's the MOD (Maximum Operating Depth). Don't go deeper than that. Even accidentally. So I limit my dives on EAN32 to 110feet to stay away from that invisible boundary where risk starts to accumulate.

You're right that whether you get hit is variable on pressure and time, it also depends on the individual's body, how fit they are, how rested they are, if they've done recent exertion and lots of other variables we don't understand. You can be tested (in a hyperbaric chamber) and make it to 4.0ata for an hour on one run and then a month later get a CNS hit on the way past 2.0 at the start of the run.

Also, a CNS hit isn't really harmful itself. When you're lying down in a hyperbaric chamber and you get hit, you go into a mild convulsion, lose conciousness, they drop the pressure, you wake up none the worse for wear. What hurts is when you need to be concious to keep doing something important (like keep the breathing regulator in your mouth on a scuba dive, or like continue to pilot the vehicle).

Finally, there is another kind of injury from elevated oxygen levels, where your lungs get burned from long exposures (long is hours and days, depending on how elevated the pressure is). This is why when you're in the hospital and need extra O2, they don't put you in an pure O2 environment and leave you there. The tissue in your lungs degrades and that injury can eventually be more serious than whatever you were on the supplemental O2 for. This is sometimes called Systemic OxTox, though it has a few names.

In either case, as others have mentioned, you're more likely to be burned by the LOX freezing your skin or the shrapnel from the bursting container than by breathing the extra O2. It also may not help the situation that the suddenly reduced temps in the cockpit cause all of the windows to frost up just as you're losing engine power...

Regards,
Ross

Re:Vacation Time

[larry bagina]

One step closer to having honey moons in space? Wooo

This is slashdot. Maybe a PERL conference in space, but not a honeymoon.

Educational uses

[arvindn]

We are very excited about the new engine since it moves us closer to our goal of a reliable and economical vehicle for space tourism as well as educational and commercial uses.

I'm particularly fascinated by the educational uses. How long until high school teachers fire real rockets to demonstrate Newton's third law? That'd be the day! No more boredom in school :)

Re:Educational uses

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

How long until high school teachers fire real rockets to demonstrate Newton's third law?

Dang, and I thought it was bad when my teacher hucked an eraser at me. DOOM has changed everything.
--

Re:Educational uses

[PhantomHarlock]

We actually have proposed educational uses just like that for our 15-lb thrust N2O-Ethane engine. Sort of a kit that can be assembled and tested by teacher and students. Such a project requires funding, however, and we have not gotten the requisite interest yet.

--Mike
XCOR Aerospace

Re:Educational uses

[worst_name_ever]

Dang, and I thought it was bad when my teacher hucked an eraser at me.

When I was in school, I actually had a physics professor who brought in a .22-caliber rifle and fired it at a swinging metal pendulum, in order to demonstrate transfer of momentum. None of us in the class were prepared for this, and were somewhat alarmed when this batty old guy pulled the rifle out from behind his desk and started shooting. I think he retired after that semester.

Re:Vacation Time

[Anonvmous Coward]

"One step closer to having honey moons in space? Wooo"

You have greater challenges towards having a honey moon than getting into space.

how's it work?

[SuperBanana]

their new liquid oxygen/ kerosene rocket engine.

When it runs low on pressure, do you have to pump the little plunger a zillion times until you're back to full-blast?

(if you haven't been camping and used a coleman lantern, you won't get this.)

I reckon..

[Soko]

...that you're trying to turn an urban legend into a real Darwin Award.

Soko

Re:I reckon..

[aardvarkjoe]

Whenever referring to this particular legend, this is the link to reference...

Name...

[plexxer]

I hope he names the final design the BFR-3000.

Propelants / Re:Danger???

[WegianWarrior]

Challenger... I rest my case.

LOX (Liquid OXygen) is used because it is both cheap, freely avilable and less dangerous than most other oxidisers. For more info on propelants in general, see here. For LOX + kerosene in particular, the link is here. Off course, if you want to get away from the nasty cryogenic oxidicers, you could always go for hydrogenperoxside and kerosene (se data here). Off course, H2O2 is more expencive and way more poisonous than LOX, but it's give and take... In large quantities, 95 per cent hydrogen peroxide then cost approximately $1.00 per kg - LOX on the other hand cost about 0.08$ per kg. Or you could get exotic and use Liquid Fluorine and Kerosene wich gives a Isp: 322.00 sl. compared to a Isp: 300.00 sl. for LOX/Kerosene (se data here) - but then LF was kosting 6.00$ in 1959, and I don't think the price has dropped.

So in short, LOX has a few drawbacks, but the benefits of using it outweights them. Oh, and Encyclopedia Astronautica is a good place to find this sort of info.

This is High Technology.

[4ginandtonics]

Oh my this is impressive.

Close study of the Igniter shows that a key component is a Champion Y-8 Spark Plug?

This is Rocket Science, man!

Re:This is High Technology.

[PhantomHarlock]

We tried many so-called "high performance" igniters and that was the one that worked the best. The 400 lb-thrust LOX-Alcohol engines on our EZ-Rocket use a spark plug from a go-ped. We only need a very small spark plug. The plug ignites an igniter engine, which is basically a miniature rocket engine inside the big rocket engine. After the igniter is lit, main propellants are allowed in to the chamber for main ignition. One of the key advantages to our engines is a safety interlock system to prevent main propellants from pooling in the main chamber before ignition, which is a primary cause of explosions, or "hard starts" as they are referred to in the industry. We have had thousands of runs without any hard starts.

--Mike

Radio Stations

[phaetonic]

This will boost the demand for XM Satellite radio, since it will be the only radio frequency to reach the moon

Re:Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[Once&FutureRocketman]

I suppose you would be more impressed if they had spent hundreds of hours building a custom spark maker to perform the same function?

Maybe you should go work for NASA.

important correction

[PhantomHarlock]

We are not currently an X-Prize contender. If the X-Prize is still available when our Suborbital vehicle is complete, it is conceivable that it could be modified to meet the requirements of the X-Prize. XCOR is more focused on the immediate possibility of revenue generating service from the Xerus spaceplane.

For more information about our Suborbital program, visit our suborbital page at:
http://www.xcor.com/suborbital.html :)
--Mike Massee
XCOR Aerospace