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IBM & CERN openlab for DataGrid Applications

Jules V.D. writes "CERN and IBM today announced that IBM is joining the CERN openlab for DataGrid applications to collaborate in creating a massive data-management system built on Grid computing.IBM's innovative storage virtualization and file management technology, will play a pivotal role in this collaboration, which aims to create a data file system far larger than exists today to help scientists at CERN understand some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of matter and the Universe."

43 comments

  1. Distributed networking by CrazyJim0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Excellent.

    Much like the appeal of Seti at home was searching for AI... People now have a choice which distributed net they want to support.

    Its a system, similar to voting, that will have every distributed net in the future trying to please.

    I forsee distributed nets of the future attempting to produce results, in order to keep people interested and donating their computer cycles.

    Its an interesting system, that works a bit like deomocracy.

    1. Re:Distributed networking by k-0s · · Score: 1
      I was going to say this is nothing like democracy but then I noticed key word in some of your phrases in your reply such as:

      "in the future trying to please"

      or

      "I forsee distributed nets of the future attempting to produce results"

      and

      "to keep people interested and donating"

      then it all made sense.

    2. Re:Distributed networking by PSC · · Score: 1

      I forsee distributed nets of the future attempting to produce results, in order to keep people interested and donating their computer cycles.

      Ain't gonna happen. Unlike seti@home, the data per CPU minute throughput in high energy physics (aka particle physics) is much higher.

      As an order of magnitude, simulating a single collision of the upcoming LHC's proton-proton beam (Large Hadron Collider is CERN's upcoming accelerator, supposed to start 2007/2008), takes about 1 CPU minute and generates ca 1 MB of data... that's 16 kB/s to send from your PC to CERN. Easy going for ethernet, but no fun with Modem, ISDN, or even DSL.

      And consider that this is a high-CPU job. Most jobs in particle physics require way more bandwidth. Especially searches for (new or known) particles requires you to loop over huge data sets (some Terabytes for sure).

      The Grid computing ansatz in high energy physics is intended for relatively few local computing centers (about one per country; Germany's center is here at Karlsruhe), interconnected with multi-Mbit links. (Our institute has a nice GigE link to the German Grid center :-)

      --
      --- The light at the end of the tunnel is probably a burning truck.
  2. after Deep Blue comes Deep Thought by ElJosho · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally, IBM is building a computer powerful enought to answer the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

    1. Re:after Deep Blue comes Deep Thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cue IBM Commercial

  3. The ultimate question by manseman · · Score: 5, Funny
    some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of matter and the Universe.

    I'll save them the effort.

    42.

    1. Re:The ultimate question by cperciva · · Score: 1

      No, you've got is wrong: They're trying to understand the questions, not the answers.

    2. Re:The ultimate question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't these people realize what happens when you know the question AND the answer? There goes the universe.

    3. Re:The ultimate question by Fjornir · · Score: 1
      ...I thought the question and the answer couldn't exist in the same universe... Or maybe that understanding came from an alternate me in an alternate universe where "what do you get if you multiply six by nine" is forty-two.

      More on-topic though, I am utterly boggled by the amount of data they're looking at holding. I can see a stack of CDs and know they're a terrabyte worth of data -- but I barely grok what a terrabyte can really hold -- maybe I don't and just think I do.

      But a petabyte. Wow. 1.5 million CDs. That's just... Just... *shrug*

      --
      I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
    4. Re:The ultimate question by cperciva · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But a petabyte. Wow. 1.5 million CDs. That's just... Just... *shrug*

      Think of it as being about a quarter of a Google.

      (I don't know exactly how big Google is now, but they were at 1.5PB a couple years ago, so they're probably somewhere around 4PB now.)

  4. Grids suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    create a data file system far larger than exists today to help scientists at CERN

    How about installing larger computers and storage systems at CERN, instead of assuming that other centers will give away their tight resources to CERN.

    1. Re:Grids suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Grids are intended for cpu and data-storage sharing, which means that all institutions contributing in a grid can, according to the permissions set, use the systems in the grid. Not all scientists working on the data at Cern can aford to be there, to have all the data on local storate, always, and to convincingly get Cern's computing farms dedicated to their calculations.

      Grids make more power and more storate awailable to more people.

      What does suck about grids is complexity, lack of good software supporting grids and, perhaps, latency.

  5. One of the coolest places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    CERN is definitely one of the coolest places on Earth. For a bid a couple of years ago, I had to do some reasearch regarding their storage requirements and data management facilities. These people produce 10 *Peta*bytes* of data per year. For us mortals to understand that number, it's got to be converted to gigabytes per second: 300+ GB/s. On the basement we've got a 2 TB RAID. The people at CERN fill that baby in less than 7 seconds. No, scratch that. Our RAID (dual fibrechannel 10000 rpm SCSI discs) tops at 120 MB/s. See what I mean? Just try to grasp the kind of SAN these people have in order to move 300 GB/s arround.

    Filling application right away.

    1. Re:One of the coolest places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      here. Seems they move 300 Gb/s not 300 GB/s arround. Still impressive.

    2. Re:One of the coolest places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well obviously a major coolant system would be required when dealing with that amount of red hot p0rn.

    3. Re:One of the coolest places by cperciva · · Score: 2, Informative

      10 PB/year = 10^16 B/year = 2.74x10^13 B/day = 1.14x10^12 B/hour = 317 MB/s.

      You're off by a factor of 1000.

    4. Re:One of the coolest places by Spellbinder · · Score: 0, Redundant

      the normal slashdot error factor =)) like 97.5 Trillion Dollars....
      nothing to mind

      --


      stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
    5. Re:One of the coolest places by Lindril · · Score: 1

      Are you the same guy that's trying to sue those college kids for $97 trillion dollars?

  6. Isn't IBM's Grid PS3 technology? by SirDaShadow · · Score: 0, Troll

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we going to get a taste of IBM's Grid technology on Sony's spanking new Playstation 3?

    1. Re:Isn't IBM's Grid PS3 technology? by SirDaShadow · · Score: 1

      I goofed. I was thinking of Cell technology...damn sundays :)

  7. Specifically. . . by Fritz+Benwalla · · Score: 4, Informative

    This system stores, crunches, and distributes data generated by the Large Hadron Collider. They generate a million gig a year in data, and need to make it available in some functional way to physicists. Manditory groovy collider pic here.

    A major collaborator on this stuff is Globus which provides an API for grid applications. Same people who are partners with IBM in the butterfly.net game grid.

    Maybe MTU can use it to store their students' Kazaa archives.

    ------

    --

    Believe me, I'm as surprised by my comment as you are.
    1. Re:Specifically. . . by Dan+Yocum · · Score: 1

      You really meant to say it *will* store, crunch, and distribute LHC data, since the LHC ain't done, yet.

  8. Hmm - looks like luck CERN is not U. S. based... by paja · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ... because as they say on their web they are far beyond p2p networks in data sharing. This is interesting and I wonder how long it will take RIAA&MPAA to sue thier U. S. based sponsors for developing technology that might be used to infringe copyright law.

  9. Re:Hmm - looks like luck CERN is not U. S. based.. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    Ha! everything might be used to infringe copyright laws : floppies, CD-R, paper, analog tapes...

    RIAA&MPAA can sue my ass. It's able to infringe a good deal of the music industry.

  10. Great! by stephenry · · Score: 1

    1 Petabyte! Thats a lotta porn!

  11. Re:Hmm - looks like luck CERN is not U. S. based.. by paja · · Score: 1

    ...and they are used to bring them more money - CD-R, CD Writers, xerox machines - they sue them all. Remember the hysteria around videotapes?

    I think someone will create post-p2p device/protocol/software, which will use some of the grid computing and grid storage technology to share not only data, but to sell Your processing power, storage or data via any kind of internetwork. And as the GSM providers are able to crate CUGs. there will be some kind of closed user groups, which will trade data, they do not own.

    The question is, if these organisations like MPAA, RIAA will have enough power to terminate any research before it proves its benefits.

  12. !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    CERN is run by the French and Germans govement! Since they decided to leave the people of Iraq with a cruel dictator because of there own slefish motvies and cowardise, ibm should not sell and eqipment to them!!!

  13. Here are some links.. by abhisarda · · Score: 2, Informative

    More about IBM and Cern- Gridcomputingplanet

    Cern and Java- Vnunet

    More about Cern-Hepwww
    The Large Electron Positron Collider at Cern-Hepwww

  14. Apropos Deep Thought by Ridge · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at some guys, throw one of those little baby-type pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think of how crazy war is, and while they're thinking, you can throw a real grenade.

    -- Jack Handy

  15. Re:!!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    errrm, you know where ibm is from right?

  16. Re:!!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought the war was to get rid of Sadam's weapons of mass destruction. Ooops they're aren't any...lets call it a war of liberation.

  17. Re:!!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOT by Spellbinder · · Score: 1

    do your homework
    20 member states running it form all over Europe

    --


    stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
  18. Re:!!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOTT CERN!!! !!!BOYCOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM is from Nazi Germany, right? What do I win?

  19. Last Post! by alpg · · Score: 0

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