Linux On Unmodded Xbox, Improved

An anonymous reader writes "It looks like pSyCo from XEmulation.com Has found a way to boot Xbox Linux Live on an unmodified Xbox with nothing but an Xbox and Linux PC (no memory card of any kind, etc). Also a guide to using this method to flash your Xbox's onboard TSOP with the bios of choice, making the Xbox modded without an actual mod-chip. $5 to rent 007 to mod my xbox sounds nice =) Check it out at: XEmulation.net Forum or XboxHacker.net BBS. *Wonder what the DMCA would think about this...*" This builds on the "007"-based method discussed earlier. Update: 04/15 01:11 GMT by T : XEmulation.com, not .net. Sorry.

Comments

no mods?

[alwsn]

What you'll need:

"Soldering Iron + Solder (and torx screw drivers)

Now you must open up your Xbox *which I don't think I need to explain how to do*, take out the motherboard, and solder the 2x2 jumpers. Now put everything back together, but leave the case top off, and keep the Xbox near your pc!

While this method might not require you to use a mod chip, it definately requires you to mod the xbox in that you have to take it apart, and solder stuff. The only think that will make me run linux on my xbox is if I can install a working system withou touching a screw driver.

Re:no mods?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you misunderstand.

You can run Linux without flashing the TSOP.

You flash the TSOP so you can put on the hacked BIOS to play pirated (excuse me, "legitimate backups").

The BIOS is write protected, and can be made flashable by bridging a couple of solder points. This wont be overcome with any sort of sofware trick or backdoor. The BIOS just aint writable.

Of course, all you budding warez kiddies (excuse me again, Linux enthusiasts) need know that if you leave it bridged, your bios can be flashed at any time, like say from some joker who puts bios-destroying code in a file called "Halo 2.ISO" and uploads it to your favorite gene6 ftp.

If all you want to do is run linux, all you need is a copy of 007, and do the trick every time. Or, you can flash the linux bios onto the TSOP.

A smart person would realize that constant updates to the TSOP for different linux bootloaders is just asking for trouble. One bad flash and your xbox is a brick. You're much better off getting a mod chip, which required no soldering, or very dead-simple soldering to the LPC points (preferred, the no-solder ones jiggle loose).

Then you can switch it off.

Anyways. Dont think the majority of the chatter on these forums is really about running linux. It's about using linux as a "legal" front to getting a hacked bios on the box that allows warezed to be played. There are "fair use" backups, sure. You can use linux, sure. But 99.999999% of the posts on the forums are of the nature of "how do u copy renterd gamez?"

Oh yeah, buy a copy of 007 NOW if you want to do this, as an updated version of the game will no doubt be silently released (if it hasnt been already).

Re:no mods?

[deanpole]

Be glad we have to physically remove the jumbers to write the flash. It also means Microsoft can't "upgrade" BIOSes when connecting to Xbox Live. :-)

Re:no mods?

[slagdogg]

You can do it without modifying it, but you need a memory card to store the code that executes the exploit. Also, the memory card trick works ONLY for running Linux, not other games or Xboxmediaplayer :(

See this link for more.

Re:no mods?

[drunk_as_in_beer]

Of course, all you budding warez kiddies (excuse me again, Linux enthusiasts) need know that if you leave it bridged, your bios can be flashed at any time, like say from some joker who puts bios-destroying code in a file called "Halo 2.ISO" and uploads it to your favorite gene6 ftp.

So you should unbridge it once you are done with the flash?

Although everyone yells "warez" when they here about something like this, and it's probably true, there are some legitimate uses. Independantly written software is one of them, look at the Dreamcast. Though, yeah, the Dreamcast is well known for allowing copies to run with no mods. I own one, though I don't have any pirated games, I run Linux and other free software on it. I would have to say the PSX was the most popular machine for playing copied games.

Re:no mods?

[TopShelf]

It seems that /. could use a new topics logo for Piracy (perhaps modeled on the Pittsburgh Pirates logo?)...

Re:no mods?

[orn]

You flash the TSOP so you can put on the hacked BIOS to play pirated (excuse me, "legitimate backups").

I know that stealing is a common reason people are doing this... but personally I like the idea of trying to get MythTV running on the beast. Once again - a single box that combines as many forms of entertainment as possible. The _mythical_ TV.

That's legitimate. Maybe M$ should just release a version of linux, properly encyrpted and all that jazz, for the X-Box.

Wouldn't that be a hoot.

Re:no mods?

[MoonBuggy]

Anyways. Dont think the majority of the chatter on these forums is really about running linux. It's about using linux as a "legal" front to getting a hacked bios on the box that allows warezed to be played. There are "fair use" backups, sure. You can use linux, sure. But 99.999999% of the posts on the forums are of the nature of "how do u copy renterd gamez?"

You're right, I'm sure, for the sites that this was originally posted on, but I would think that most /. users actually do want to run linux on their Xboxes. It may be a front, but it's a front that benefits alot of us around here (spare computer, multi-use DVD player, file storage etc.) and it'd be unfortunate if people thought that ALL modders simply wanted to playe warez.

Re:no mods?

[mark-t]

It may be a lot simpler to USE a mod-chip, but the effort required to actually OBTAIN a mod-chip in the first place can be substantial, unless you are lucky enough to know where you can obtain one without resorting to international mail order, which is often subject to inspection.

Re:no mods?

[John Hurliman]

Why so focused on pirating games? I'm going to buy an XBox because of this, so I can turn my XBox in to a media center that plays DVDs, MP3s/OGGs/WAVs, DivX/Xvids/AVIs/MPEGs, view images and more with a nice remote to control it for $150. I can also work on the open source software myself and add my own changes in there.

I want a single interface to watch all the DVDs I buy, all the amateur skateboarding/snowboarding movies I make, listen to all the music CDs I buy, and look at all the pictures I take with my digital camera. Corporate America isn't able to come up with a solution that isn't completely bogus, and certainly not for under $200, so I'll build it myself. Two soldering points and a single ROM flash doesn't seem like too much work.

Re:no mods?

[SScorpio]

Or you can just visit the website of the maker of the modchip you want and look at their partnered reseller list.

http://xecuter.gotmod.com/sellers.htm

You get sellers in the US, Canada, Europe, Asia, and Australia.

You still might have a problem going UK -> France or something but I don't know since there is no issues with state to state shipping.

I still hope

[sielwolf]

The guy who came up with the 007 method gets whatever rewards were for booting Linux first on an Xbox. Yeah, this seems more like what "people want". But that wasn't the challenge. It was to boot Linux.

I'm sorry but the fuss around the backdoor-ness of the 007 method was blown way out of proportion.

Re:I still hope

[Ikeya]

At a bare minimum, he earns my respect as a hacker. Holes like this can often lead to great developments. Look at the TI calculators. Holes were found in the ROMS in order to get to the Z80 assembly layer and produce some of the greatest games (and useful applications) that have been published on calculators.
This was so much a success that TI eventually starting allowing access to the Assembly layer natively (ala the TI86 and TI89/92+)
Besides, it's so much fun hearing about all of these cool holes and backdoors. Like the TI82 was cracked through the Matrix variable named "Q" (which doesn't really exist).
Anyway, kudos to all involved!
ikeya

Re:I still hope

[robotbrain]

Actually, you can boot to linux without opening the case with the original method. This method is to flash the onboard bios so you don't have to go through the 007 workaround everytime you want to run unsigned code.

FYI

[skrowl]

The previous method that they're talking about involved a buffer overflow in the savegame handling from 007:Agent Under Fire.

You were able to execute code (in most cases, a BIOS flash to flash the internal TSOP) tacked on to the end of your save game.

Hopefully this comes as a lesson to ALWAYS ALWAYS sanity check ANY USER INPUT, even if it comes in the form of a file that you THINK you know the layout of.

Re:FYI

[Pharmboy]

What I find odd is now we WANT a buffer overflow, so we can BOOT linux instead bitching about sloppy ass programmers for them causing it to crash.

Make up your damn mind ;)

Xemulation.net should be Xemulation.com

[Sonicboom]

I think the first link should read Xemulation.com and point there, too.

C'mon editors - don't you check your stories and links before you post?

Re:Xemulation.net should be Xemulation.com

[ToadSprocket]

C'mon editors - don't you check your stories and links before you post?

Is this a trick question?

Re:Xemulation.net should be Xemulation.com

[MrScience]

You know it's bad when your first thought is "Don't you know this is Slashdot?"

And the second thought is, "Man, what a tired joke."

sure..

[Anonymous Coward]

[l337 kid returning xbox]

kid: g1bb0r m3 my m0n3y b4ck, f4gg0rz. My k-r4d Xb0x0r 15 fux0r3d.

clerk: Ok.. let's see.. Hmm.. the screw heads are worn, indicating you've opened this XBox up. Oh, I see solder splattered on the board.. wait a sec, this isn't even an XBox board, it's from an old Betamax!

"Wonder what the DMCA would think about this..."?

[RLiegh]

Whatever Microsoft TELLS THEM to think about this.
(I may get an -1 redundant since that is the whole reason for the DMCA. Oh well. )

Nvidia drivers hacked?

[Vardamir]

Has anyone made progress on hacking the nvidia drivers to work on the XBox? If so, there is software, called Chromium I belive, that can take advantage of multiple OpenGL rendering nodes, making the XBox a very cost effective platform for such a project.

Here's the article

[JoshuaDFranklin]

SAVE THEIR SERVERS: Ok, I've never written a tutorial of any kind in my life... so if this is posted anywhere, you can edit it (to a point ... keep the main writing.. but adding photo's, etc are fine by me, just give me a lil credit) And with that said .. I'll start...

This tutorial will explain how to go about mounting your Xbox HD's game save partition under Linux on a PC, in order to get habibi_xbox's 007:Agent Under Fire game save along with raincoat and your bios of choice onto the Xbox's HD, eliminating the need for a Mega-X-Key!

What you'll need:

Xbox
PC running Linux (distro of choice)
Linux kernel 2.4.20 source ( http://www.kernel.org )
"Kernel" folder from xbox-linux's CVS ( http://xbox-linux.sf.net)
007: Agent Under Fire retail DVD
Soldering Iron + Solder (and torx screw drivers)

*Warning... i installed a fresh copy of Slackware Linux on an old PC just to do this, following this tutorial can cripple your linux system if you don't revert back to your old kernel... or compile a new one... unless you know what your doing*

1st things 1st! Now you must open up your Xbox *which I don't think I need to explain how to do*, take out the motherboard, and solder the 2x2 jumpers (one's on top, ones on the bottom of the mobo) pictures: http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/tsop.php . Now put everything back together, but leave the case top off, and keep the Xbox near your pc!

Now, download the Linux 2.4.20 kernel source from http://www.kernel.org *look in the archives!*, move the tar.gz or tar.bz2 file to /usr/src and extract. This should leave you with a folder named "linux-2.4.20". Next, get the "Kernel" folder from the Xbox-Linux team's CVS *sourceforge tells you how to get on their CVS server... just user kernel as the module name*. After doing so, move the contents of the "kernel" folder to the "linux-2.4.20" folder.

Go into the linux-2.4.20 folder and read the README.xbox file! Follow it's instructions to the point right before compiling the kernel! Next, run "make xconfig" or "make menuconfig" in console while in the folder. Configure the kernel as you normally would *I assume you have some knowledge about Linux*, remove USB support, and turn off all Xbox specific functions... Make sure to leave FatX support in though! When done, run *without quotes* "make dep ; make modules ; make bzImage ; make modules ; make modules_install ; make install" This will automatically do everything needed. Next, shutdown, and use the Xbox HD swap trick to unlock your Xbox's HD and connect it to your PC (Turn on your pc, wait for it to boot RIGHT BEFORE it gets to your Linux boot loader screen press the Pause / Break button. Turn on Xbox, wait for it to boot to the dash, unplug IDE cable from Xbox, connect an IDE cable from your PC into the Xbox's HD and press any key. Your pc should boot as normal, into Linux... except now it see's your Xbox's HD!

*NOW, BACK UP YOUR XBOX HD! MAKE AN IMAGE FILE OF THE HD!!! I don't know the command do to so under linux, but I used HDD Driver under windows to do it ... but seriously, if something goes wrong here, you can be left with a bunk HD if you don't have a backup!*

Now, make a new folder in /mnt (I used /mnt/xbox myself). Now, look in the /dev folder, you should see "hda50 hda51 hda52 hda53, etc..." *it may not be hda, it could be hdb, hdc, or hdd...*. After seeing what block device it is, type this command into console"
mount -t fatx /dev/hda50 /mnt/xbox" ... if it works, you will see no error message. Go into the folder in which you mounted the partition to, and guess what! You should see TDATA and UDATA folders!

Still need 007.....

[Another AC]

with nothing but an Xbox and Linux PC

Um, no!

It's true you don't need a memory card, but you still need 007 Agent Under Fire to do this.

I think it's less work and easier to do it with a memory card though. This method requires hooking the xbox drive up to your pc and a lot of recompiling kernel stuff.. the other way just requires you putting some files on a memory card (you can do it with a previously modded xbox or a couple of other ways) and that's it. Once you've got that memory card you can reuse it on each xbox you want to mod too. It takes about 90 seconds to get an unmodded-xbox to run linux with the memory card:

• Turn on xbox with no cd in drive, but with memory card in controller.
• Use the MS dashboard to copy the 007 save game to the harddrive.
• Put in 007 Agent Under Fire and reboot.
• Wait for lots of annoying intro stuff.
• Choose "Load Mission", pick the game off the hard drive.
• Linux boots!

The problem with this...

[chadamir]

is that I believe the goal of the whole boot linux on your xbox without a modchip was to make it so you don't have to void your warranty. Also, this sounds like it has tons of potential for a bad solder and then some kind of power surge thus frying your xbox. I think I'll stick with my matrix.

Re:"Wonder what the DMCA would think about this...

[Sheetrock]

My guess is that the DMCA would have the same contented papery thoughts that other printed documents have, not to mention an intense dislike for fire.

Another problem is

[chadamir]

that you still can't use the xbox to play unsigned code without modifying it. So yeah you can boot linux, but I can't just bring some software I wrote over to my friend's house and pop it in and show him. He needs to have it modded which is still a big problem.

Shows Palladium is not going to work

[captaineo]

This wonderful example shows how even hardware-enforced media protection schemes aren't going to work, as long as there are any vulnerabilities in the "trusted" software.

e.g. say you have a DVD player program that is "trusted" and prevents you from taking a screenshot or recording anything from a DVD. If you can find a buffer overflow or any other kind of exploit in the program, you can just have it execute your own code (rip the whole DVD) at its super-trusted privilege level.

Given that MS has a hard time keeping its HTTP server secure, I don't think buffer overflows will be too hard to find in typical razzle-dazzle media player programs :)

Re:Shows Palladium is not going to work

[nick this]

This wonderful example shows how even hardware-enforced media protection schemes aren't going to work, as long as there are any vulnerabilities in the "trusted" software.

This is true as far as it goes, but you have to think that the goal (from Microsoft's perspective) isn't to lock hackers out of the hardware, it's to lock them out of the hardware only long enough to ship the next version, built on a platform immune to the vulnerabilities of the previous platform.

Look at the satellite TV folks -- once pirated satellite got out of hand, they just dropped the H cards and started shipping HU cards. Once the community started getting traction on those, they moved to the next version of smart cards.

DirectTV doesn't have to lock the hackers out forever, just make it hard enough to reverse engineer that they can move to a newer platform when the dam starts to break. So Microsoft can do the same thing. They can move faster than the community can, particularly when the protection is on die. Makes reversing it *really hard*... both expensive and time consuming.

So really, the security on Palladium doesn't have to be great, just good enough.

Re:Shows Palladium is not going to work

[Minna Kirai]

This wonderful example shows how even hardware-enforced media protection schemes aren't going to work,

It only shows that the schemes won't work by merely technical means, and that they'll need the help of laws to make hardware media protection work.

Legal methods alone won't work, because people will ignore laws that are totally easy to break. And it's impossible to arrest/intimidate millions of people for a non-sexual, non-violent, drug-free, victimless crime.

Hardware methods alone won't work, because as soon as one smart guy deciphers the hardware, he'll spread his workaround to the entire world.

The combination of hardware and legal protections can work. If there are laws allowing for severe punishments to the handful of hackers who create the workarounds, and moderate punishment to people who distribute them, it'll be quiet possible to keep 99.99% of people unable to break their hardware "trust" protection. And then the "trusted" code side will have won.

Given that MS has a hard time keeping its HTTP server secure, I don't think buffer overflows will be too hard to find in typical razzle-dazzle media player programs :)

That assumption is shortsighted. Maybe it's true today, but it won't stay true. Microsoft currently has many buffer overflows in its software, for 2 reasons.

1. They have no financial benefit to secure code. People still buy their software (even HTTP servers), regardless of occasional vulnerabilities. BUT, in the future, on devices like the X-Box, they will have more and more incentive to secure the code, and they might start to move security up their priority list.
   
   
2. PCs and servers with Microsoft Windows are currently general-purpose computers, which the end-user sysadmins can and do install unpredictable combinations of their own software on. In an unpredictable, dynamic environment, it's hard to keep things secure. BUT, X-Boxes (and similar hardware offerings) don't need to allow users to continually change and update the software. The routines that do things like unpack disk and network information are unchanging targets. Given time, Microsoft can progressively discover and eliminate any overflow. Then, they will make it impossible for game developers to write their own code for these things, and only allow them to use approved APIs for dangerous situations.
   

Re:Wow.

[FatRatBastard]

Actually, it just may. If the price goes down to $150 (as the rumors are claiming) then I've just saved a boat load of money on my "media PC" that I've been meaning to build (but have been too lazy to actually get around to). A good box with TV out, sound and ethernet to stream my 10K+ mp3 collection. This def. saves me time and money.

*Wonder what the DMCA would think about this...*

[csteinle]

Not very much, I would imagine. Given that's it a law. It's not even an object, let alone an animate one capable of thought.

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[Pejorian]

I have to scratch my head at this too.

The XBox is a game machine, not a PC, and it is designed to run 3D graphics applications really well. I can only conclude that the "run Linux on XBox" thing is a "proof-of-concept" (or as someone else put it, "stick-a-finger-in-M$-eye" thing or a "wow-your-fellow-geeks" thing)

By the way, I consider soldering to be modding.

PCs are cheap and plentiful. There are many FREE Linux distros that can be run on them. And, HEY! you DO NOT NEED A MOD CHIP nor do you need to solder ANYTHING to run Linux on them!!

ya ya... -1 redundant.

Because

[FreeLinux]

Because the XBox has

a powerful processor

enough memory

dvd drive

high-end graphics card

and more

All for only $200. You can't get a PC with the same specs for near that price.

Did you vote?

Re:Because

[stratjakt]

a powerful processor

A mobile celeron 733 powerful? A 1 gig tualitin celeron would be 40 bucks, with another 30 or so for a mobo.

enough memory

What's 64 megs of SDRAM worth? 10 bucks? I bet most of us have a DIMM collecting dust we could use. I know I have a dozen of 'em.

dvd drive

A crappy dvd drive, on which recordable media support is somewhere between terrible and none, depending on your luck.

high-end graphics card

To be fair, it's a GeForce 3 with another pixel shader. And with no real driver support past a plain-jane framebuffer. And I sincerly doubt nVidia is going to pony up some drivers for the xGPU any time soon.

and more

Yes, an 8, 10 or maybe 20 gig HDD depending once again on luck. A terrible (from a general use PC standpoint) bus configuration. No way to do key/mouse input without sacrificing a $40 control pad.

Seriously.

Cheap case + PSU = 40 bucks

mobo, 733mhz celeron, ram = 100 bucks

Crappy DVD drive = well, you cant buy one as crippled as the xboxes. But lets say 25 bucks for a used 8x.

Cheapest, smallest HDD you can get = 30 bucks.

Sound card and video = spend as much as you want. You can get xbox-linux functionality on anything with a framebuffer. But hey, spend the 10 bucks on a Riva TNT2 and you're already smoking X-linux. But I'll say 50 bucks for a SB PCI card and a cheapo video card with TV-out.

100+40+30+25+50 = 245 bucks for a similarly configured home-built machine.

Xbox would be the price of the box (200) + a memory card (40) + a copy of 007 (20?).

Re:Because

[DarkZero]

Xbox would be the price of the box (200) + a memory card (40) + a copy of 007 (20?).

Refurbished XBox because consoles are pretty durable and they obviously weren't owned that long, so there is probably no need for a brand new one = $130-$150

Used memory card, because once again, it hasn't been used that long or that often = $20? (actually $0 if you use ebay, since hardly anyone is going to sell their XBox without its memory card)

Used copy of 007, because few people want to keep it for long and its suckage will propel it into the bargain bin soon anyway = $10

That's $140-$180, plus it still plays XBox games, which a PC does not (a very small bonus, I will admit), and it also comes with a decent gamepad for emulated/freeware/abandonware games, which you did not mention in your PC list. For someone that's on the fence about whether or not they want an XBox console, I'd say it's a great deal. For someone that just wants a small media PC, I'd say it's a fair deal that also provides a weekend of enjoyable hacking, if that's their sort of thing.

And besides, putting a PC together is just a little bit easier than this really simple modding job. For a little more work, you could save about $100 and still get as much functionality as you need for a media PC.

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[kwerle]

so why do folks sink lots of time and effort into this?

I already have an XBox.
It is connected to my TV and my stereo.
I want it to play MP3s from my server.
I don't want another box.

It can't be all that hard to understand.

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[tgd]

I'll tell you why I did the Linux/BSD on Dreamcast thing... (which never worked out anyway, unfortunately)... I liked the idea of a multi-use unit in my entertainment center that didn't have a fan, didn't look like ass, and could do reasonable streaming MP3's. As it turned out last time I looked no one had gotten a decent streaming MP3 player running DC native or Linux/BSD, so its been sitting in a box in my closet for the last year.

My RIO Player works fine now...

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[secolactico]

so why do folks sink lots of time and effort into this?

Why do people climb the Everest? It's not like they are going to settle there or mine for resources.

Smallest version?

[CrazyJim0]

Is there a .exe for Linux or Windows?

I just run the .exe and then I can flash roms over?

Re:Boredom breeds insanity, part 344

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed linux on my dog. Things didn't go well!

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[R0b5D1gs]

What are your thoughts on Moderators that are trying to do a good job for the /. community. When ever I see that I have the moderator points it almost seems like a job reading slashdot. I have to read the articles(no, I don't always ;^) and keep tuned in closer then normal so all the good ones aren't already at their threshold.

Re:What is the point?

[MoonBuggy]

But what, exactly, does this do for me, besides letting me put a finger in M$'s eye?

You're a slashdot reader, shouldn't annoying Billy boy be enough for you? ;-)

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[stratjakt]

Simple.

Linux is just the "front" that lets kids talk about how to flash the BIOS with a hacked version to play warez.

They act as though they have the moral high ground with all the linux jibber jabber, but go peruse the forums in the links and you can see what 99% of the kids are really interested in hacking the xbox for.

It aint linux, it ain't Tux racer, it aint backups or imports. It's just code for "warez" and we all know it.

Eg; a local game shop does mods, and sells imports. I was chatting with the owner one day, and asked him how many mods he does a week. He tells me 50 on a good week. I ask him how many import games he sells. He just kind of laughed and says practically none, they just keep them around to legitimize the whole thing.

Re:Wow.

[RatBastard]

Actually, there is one use that most XBox users might see as useful: With Linux running on your XBox you can FTP files in and out of it, letting you hack savegame files, or load hacked savegame files.

I can tell u what�s the point!

[dark-br]

"Why Xbox Linux?" Well I have a legitimate reason for wanting Linux on an unmodded Xbox.

My Xbox is going back to MS as they have attempted to fix a problem several times and have so far been unsuccessful. This time, they're considering swapping systems for a new one, which I'm fine with except for one thing: Loss of saved games.

They will not just swap drives as it would save them at least 5 minutes of work, so I will lose all of my info on the HD.

With Linux running on my unmodded Xbox, I could possibly FTP the data elsewhere and restore it on the new system. This makes so much sense to me that I wonder why there is no way of doing it by default.

Microsoft's idea is to purchase their Memory Units and backup this way. Problem is, since each Xbox comes with a hard drive, no developer tries to make the smallest possible size save file. I would need several MUs to backup my data. Plus, some files cannot even be copied to a MU which means they cannot be backed up at all.

meet the impossibles

[Naikrovek]

the cop says: "I want body armor the size of a handkerchief that can stop a howitzer."

the fireman says: "i want a firehose that weighs less than a pound that can fight fires 250 feet away."

the scuba diver says: "i want an oxygen tank that holds 10 hours of air, and fits in my back pocket - those backpack tanks are HEAVY!"

the hot rodder says: "i want a car that goes from 0-60 in 1 second with a top speed of 400mph in the quarter mile and i don't want to spend over $500."

the alwsn says: "i want to make some electronic equipment i own do something it was never intended to do without opening the case, changing anything, and i want it to work flawlessly every time."

ALL RIDICULOUS.

Re:meet the impossibles

[Minna Kirai]

the alwsn says: "i want to make some electronic equipment i own do something it was never intended to do without opening the case, changing anything, and i want it to work flawlessly every time."

ALL RIDICULOUS.

One of those things is not like the others- one of those things does not belong!

The 4 examples you give are examples of equipment that is impossible because it violates the laws of physics. The last example is a violation of the will of Microsoft- which is a much softer target to attack.

The X-Box is a stored-program computer. It loads programs and runs them. Since it can load software that wasn't conceived back when the hardware was built, it's what is called a "general purpose computer".

The manufacturer has attempted to cripple the device- to take away a capability it naturally had- in order to earn themselves some more cash. It was intended first to run programs, then as an afterthought, made to only run a tiny fraction of the many possible programs for marketing reasons.

It's not ridiculous at all to think that the code-signing restriction can be lifted from the XBox, without changing the hardware. Bill Gates could accomplish this in 30 seconds if he wished. US normal people might take longer, and it might be "illegal", but the probablities aren't so low as to be humorous.

(Unless someone imagines they'll brute-force the encryption, which is just funny)

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[RatBastard]

Via Mini-ITX case in a small box with 64MB of RAM and an old hard drive. Fully functional MP3/OGG/etc... living room PC for almost nothing. Install any OS you like. Built in TV-Out, sound, NIC, video, etc... Hell, if it finds a TV connected to the Video-out and no monitor it will boot with the TV as the primary display, even in "DOS Mode".

No need to solder anything. No voiding of the warranty. No giving MS any more of your money.

Why I'm doing this

[BigDish]

The most common question here seems to be why? Well, for my, XBMP is the answer. Few months ago, I installed a mod chip in a friend's Xbox. One of the first things he did was get XBMP running. Wow, all I can say is XBMP is the killer application for the Xbox. Just to run XBMP, I picked up a used Xbox and DVD remote just before the initial exploit was discovered, and I grabbed 007 off ebay for like $10. Though when trying to bridge the 2 resistor pads, I knocked another resistor off the board, so I need to obtain a replacement resistor (soldering iron I was using was WAY too big) to finish this project Really though, if you haven't seen XBMP, look at it. It is a killer app-ESPECIALLY for college students. For $150 or so I have a box that will play damn near any media file I through at it, off CD, DVD, or SMB share, and is designed to be hooked to the TV, with an interface designed for it too. To me, the Xbox with XBMP is the media PC Microsoft has been trying to create.

What about running Windows?

[Rinikusu]

Why isn't anyone trying to get Windows to run on one of these things, as well? Sure, Linux is nifty and all, but some of us actually *prefer* using Windows. Just curious.

Re:What about running Windows?

[aderusha]

as soon as m$ open-sources windows, i'm sure somebody will compile it to run on xbox.

just don't hold your breath...

Re:X-Box Running Linux is a waste of time

[aderusha]

show me another computer with 64mb ram, 8/10/20gb hard drive (depending on when you bought it), decent 3d video, dolby digital 5.1 sound, dvd-rom, and 10/100 ethernet that you can buy for $200 and i won't call your post a troll.

Re:TSOP?

[stratjakt]

Yeah, though I thought it was Thin-line Soldered On Package or some such.

The xbox' bios is a TSOP eeprom.

You'll also note they talk about burning an "ISO of Halo", when of course, the filesystem they're burning is anything but ISO 9660 (either UDF or Xboxes native system)

Re:Whats with all the blatent piracy news stories?

[Vodak]

This is not piracy, this is the true art of hacking. Getting something to work in a way it was not intended.

Reverse Engineering

[meta-monkey]

Wonder what the DMCA would think about this...

Even if you didn't have to open the box and do some soldering, I think this would still violate the DMCA, because MS will claim that there's no way anyone could have discovered this method without reverse-engineering either their BIOS or the assumably proprietary 007 save game format and code.

Probably the only way you can get Linux or any other software to run on an unmodified XBox would in some way involve using MS's Xbox SDK. Most likely, that includes code that must be licensed from MS. I don't know that to be the case, but that's my guess.

BECAUSE IT'S THERE!

[DickBreath]

Walmart sells $200 Lindows machines with more functionality, particularly factoring in the hard drive, so why do folks sink lots of time and effort into this?

I swear this question gets asked each time the Xbox-Linux topic comes up.

Because it's there!


Why did people used to buy Heathkit TV's when you could buy a pre-built similar TV for less money?

Why should some kid build a linux-workalike when there were already other OSes that ran on his hardware?

Why build a motorized car out of lego bricks when you can buy a ready made motorized car for less?

Why do people do pointless things? Model railroading? Build their own automobile from a kit? Fix their own car? Why does a kid with a soldering iron to spend $30 bucks on parts to build his own radio, when he could have bought a ready made transistor radio for $5? Why does my straight cute neighbor build all kinds of things out of wood when he could purchase ready made items? (Mailbox, Playhouse, Swingset) Why would someone spend many hours learning to program a simple no-frills text editor for the millionth time when many people already have notepad pre-installed?

What for?

[kavau]

This is meant to be an honest question, not a flame: What's the point of running Linux on your Xbox? Linux runs fine on a PC. Is it just the "because we can" factor, or are there any really useful things you can do with Linux on an Xbox that you can't do on a PC?

Re:What for?

[tweek]

Actually the xbox is of more use than any of the others. You've basically got a pretty decent spec'd PC in a small formfactor for $149 bucks.

Why not upgrade the hard drive in this process ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, where's the point in hot-plugging devices which by design are not supposed to be hot-plugged (i.e. the IDE/ATA bus), "for safety" doing backups seemingly no less risky than the patches that follow this way afterwards, but then reassembling your Xbox with the tiny hard drive still in place, once the TSOP does hold a BIOS that should also support huge replacement HDDs of 120(+) GB (or shouldn't it)?
Sure, you still need the original hard drive to boot one last time before flashing the TSOP, but wouldn't it be easier to use the "first 007 method" (i.e. Agent Under Fire + USB memory stick) up to this point, power down the flashed Xbox, and then just replace the unchanged hard drive with a much larger unit (in other words, using the original drive as the very physical "backup" of itself, which you can still plug back in should the need ever be)?
Or am I missing something, as -minutes after the article has been posted- of course I haven't tried the method myself yet?

Games for Linux on XBox and PS2

[RichiP]

I'd find it REALLY neat if some game write would write a game for Linux which will compile without much change for Linux/XBox as well as Linux/PS2 (and even Linux/PC). Or are there games out there now? I wouldn't mind buying an XBox or PS2 if someone would release/sell Linux games for it.

(They'd have to use the game controller, of course)

Dreamcast $50

[FatalTourist]

Your example defeats your point! A new DC costs $50, you can probably get a keyboard (or adapter, or make one) for $10, $5 RF adapter, and then get a crappy TV from a yard sale for $5. Customize NetBSD for yourself and you have a fun little server. Cram it anywhere! Put it on the network at the office and hide it in the ceiling!
I'd like to see Walmart try and sell me a server for less than $100.
And of course when you get bored you can take the server down and play some sweet games on it (they sell for peanuts now).

The clerks of the world . . . .

[ysaric]

kid: g1bb0r m3 my m0n3y b4ck, f4gg0rz. My k-r4d Xb0x0r 15 fux0r3d.

clerk: uh, ok. You got your receipt?

Receipts are all powerful. Clerks are dumb.

No network on DCs.

[RatBastard]

Unless you got really lucky and found one a while back, you will not be getting ethernet on your Dreamcast. While the DC might be cheap, the broadband adapter is as reare as hen's teeth.

Re:*Wonder what the DMCA would think about this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if "Information wants to be free" then "The DMCA wants to be an asshole".

Drive me crazy, please!

[evil_one]

I hear so many people talking about the TSOP. "the TSOP this," "the tsop that" - TSOP stands for Thin Small Outline Package.
It's just a flash chip. You can get much more than memory in TSOPs.
Why don't people call it what it really is?
How about "the flash chip" or "the firmware chip"?

Conspiracy Theory

[riclewis]

Just thought of this...

Has the fellow who first figured out the 007 hack come forward with his real identity yet? Seems like awfully good fortune to find this vulnerability lurking around.

<Conspiracy Theory>
I can't help but wonder if Microsoft didn't plant this 'hack'. Follow me out here--MS doesn't really care if Linux runs on XBox. Sure it's a black eye, but it doesn't hurt their bottom line. But--all of a sudden there's a flaw in the closed system, and it's in --gasp-- a program written by someone other than MS. Now when future software is released for the Xbox (or Palladium) MS can use this 'incident' as an excuse to call for complete code disclosure from 3rd parties

I can hear Microsoft saying "You need to show us all your code so we can test it--otherwise how can we be sure it won't break our 'perfect' security system?"...
</Conspiracy Theory>

I don't mean to say this to take away from the guy who came up with this, but it's just an interesting, plausible scenario.

Re:Conspiracy Theory

[DarkZero]

They have to give all of the code over to Microsoft anyway because Microsoft, just like Sony and Nintendo, has an extensive reviewing process for all of the games on their console. This is why so few console games have crash bugs and such when compared to the PC. The company that runs the console verifies that the product is ready for market before licensing it for it sale and the game cannot be sold until that time. If any company bypasses this and just releases a game to market without consulting the console manufacturer, they can be sued for breaking various licensing and copyright agreements, such as the licensing agreement that came with the XBox SDK that they had to use to make the game.

This bug probably slipped through the reviewing process because A) it is an obscure bug, B) the XBox has a lot more avenues of attack than a PS2 or GameCube because of the hard drive and ethernet card, and C) Microsoft's reviewing process seems to be a bit less extensive than Sony's or Nintendo's.

What a Modded Xbox can be used for

[phreak03]

I recently installed a xecutioner lite mod chip in my xbox (1mb rom), and have found tons of awsome uses for it for $200 i can buy a set top box divx player (kiss technologies), or i could buy a $50 or less modchip and a 150 refurbished xbox (EB) First, it makes for a great NES/snes/mame gameing machine, despite the D-pad being a little crappy second Xbox-media player can play XVID/WMP files/OGG/DIVX/mp3/jpg's/bmp's you can sort your music into playlist/folders with alblum art for the icons even, you can have slideshows with background music unfortunetly your going to have to find it allready compiled illigaly under microsofts compiler XDK (look of efnet, xbox channels for it) third, you can backup games to the hardrive, so if you scratch/loose games a lot, you don't have to worry about where they are or what you did to them you can backup your games, and then use burned copies while your legit copies sit in a safe somewere, you can backup your saves, and trade em with friends (all done thru FTP) Heck, for those of you too lazy to set the clock, will find there is an app that does it automaticaly online for you if you also boot with linux you can have a webtv like thing, and spending 7$ for a controler extender, and soddering/electrical tapeing it together with a spare usb header i have, yeilds a usb converted (and you can atually mount those things into the controller as they do have a hub) throw in some cathode lights, and a cooler fan, and you have a party in a box

Impossible is done every day.

[Groo Wanderer]

There was an old quote on l0pht a while back, before they went corporate and scrubbed the site with the wire brush of PC-ness, that went something like:

"That problem is strictly theoretical" -Microsoft
"L0pht, making the theoretical possible since...."

What you are decrying is innovation, not MS style word corruption, but the real thing. My parents bought a building in the 70's. It was ~75,000 sq feet, 30 foot ceilings, and a HUGE air conditioner, but almost no heater. It was built in the 1950s to house a computer. I shudder to think what it cost, much less cost to run. Today, my $27 timex wristwatch has over 10x the computing power of that HUGE computer, runs for about 3 years on a button battery, and never breaks, can work under water to 100m, survive heat, cold shock, and me beating it.

Looking down the list of 'rediculous' things you mention, that is far and away 'more rediculous' than any of the things you mention.

For another example, my roommate has a bullet proof vest. Another friend makes plate mail armor. The plate costs ~$2500 and takes months to build. A .45 will put a hole in one side, a bigger hole in the soft squishy thing in the middle, and a bigger hole in the back. The bulletproof vest will stop it, and probably only leave you with a big briuse and possibly a cracked rib or 3. The vest cost less than 1/10th of the armor, weighs about 1/100th of the weight, and is more readily available.

Rediculous!

So, what is your problem with innovation. The very best things that you use came from the same spirit that the people doing XBox hacks have. I mean, why bother with things like transistors, antibiotics, lasers, nuclear power, and CIA mind control lasers. Oops, you aren't supposed to know about that one.

Rediculous!

Before you decry cool stuff that others do, I suggest you try the following in order.

1) Take a deep breath.
2) Try ignoring things that bother you.
When that fails
3) Don't bitch at people doing things you don't like.
4) Move out of your mother's basement
5) Do something usefull yourself.

Rediculous!, I know.

Seriously, the world needs more cool things, be they useful or frivolous. Strange things come from seemingly random events, and noone tends to see the next killer app ahead of time. Don't be a roadblock.

-Charlie

Re:No-Solder Jumpers instead of Solder?

[Mikeytsi]

You solder jumpers to the board instead of soldering the traces together. Then you can create or disconnect the link at will.

Been there, done that...

[MsGeek]

Take a look at Buttercup. It's getting a GeForce 4MX 440SE 64MB with 64MB DDR. It has 512MB RAM, the highest an i815 motherboard can go up to. And it will probably do much, much more than anything a modded XBox can do. And even though the case is a bit bigger than an XBox, it isn't much bigger than a VCR or an audio receiver. Put a TV tuner card in there with MythTV and you have a TIVO.

They LIKE being /.ed !!

[anagama]

They like being slasdotted!. From a comment posted after the article (how's that for RTFAing?):

guys ... a link to this topic was posted on slashdot ... so, me may have a bit of a server overhaul ...

(I didn't think this was slashdot worthy, but hey ... when you make front page on your 3 most visited sites *slashdot, xboxhacker, xbox-scene* ... it puts a warm fuzzy feeling in your heart =p

_________________
I don't like p00!

--pSyCo

Home Brew

[FunkyELF]

I wouln't go as far as to say 99.9%. You are forgetting all of the excelent homebrew programs out there for the xbox. They are the only reason I bought an XboX. I don't use it to play warezd xbox games, I use it to watch warezd divx dvd rips and listen to warezed mp3s with xbox media player. And to play warezed super nintendo roms with Xsnes9X. Haven't tried to run linux on it. It'd be nice to browse the web on my tv sometimes, or to play tux racer :), but I don't play on doin that untill I can run linux for a year on a PC without messin somethin up.

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[yandros]

I don't believe that you missed the very first item in his list: ``I already have an xbox.'', so you must have chosen to ignore it. Shrug.

Now, I believe that most people bought an xbox to play games, with an aside of ``and other home entertainment purposes'' (i.e. playing CD's, DVD's, etc). Given this as a starting point, is there something wrong with the idea of `Tux Racer on the XBox'? Maelstrom on the XBox? Frozen Bubble on the XBox? Random-other-linux-game on the XBox? Not-yet-written, free software, open source game on the XBox?

In general, this hack (and the non-hardware-intrusive one before it) provide a way for people to make xboxes better able to do the sorts of things that many slashdot readers [like to] do. What's so hard to understand?

Easy but slow way.

[Andy Dodd]

Use two-pass encoding. This way you know that your rate control variables are always at their optimal setting. Highest quality for any bitrate is this way, at the expense of 50-75% longer encode times. (The second pass goes quicker on more recent DivX versions that allow you to save the motion vectors to a file, the second time around the codec doesn't need to do motion estimation a second time.)

In the end it's faster, since you don't have to constantly tweak the RC settings depending on source material via trial and error.

Re:Neat, but why bother?

[Pejorian]

I just went to the website of a computer store just down the street from me. I could go out and buy a full system (except monitor & OS) with an AMD XP1700, 256 MB of RAM, 32MB video card, 10/100 LAN card, and CD for CAD$415, which is $285 of "your" dollars. That's brand new, and that's a way better system than an unmodded XBox. The same system with a 16x DVD player and USB 2.0 will cost $305 USD. Then you have to get a TV-out card for another $40 US, but the system you end up with is hugely superior to the XBox, both in upgradeability and flexibility.

Of course, I can't argue with the "interesting weekend project" aspect. I like doing that stuff too. But don't try to use the financial argument with me...