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Could E-Voting Cure Voter Apathy?

Bendebecker notes that The Register is saying that "A major trial is about to kick off in the UK that could help decide whether e-voting is merely a gimmick or whether it can genuinely help cure voter apathy." Voter Apathy or Flash Poll Elections? What is the lesser of 2 evils?

15 of 474 comments (clear)

  1. In a word, no! by jonathonc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The mechanism for voting will have little impact on current apathy. A significant proportion of the country doesn't vote because they have little or no faith in politicians and their constant lies, double standards, corruption and inability to keep promises. Sure, clicking a button will make it easier to vote but you're stilling voting for the same distrustful candidates.

    1. Re:In a word, no! by mz001b · · Score: 5, Interesting
      A significant proportion of the country doesn't vote because they have little or no faith in politicians and their constant lies, double standards, corruption and inability to keep promises. Sure, clicking a button will make it easier to vote but you're stilling voting for the same distrustful candidates.

      That is why we need a "None of the above" choice on the ballot too. California tried this via referendum, but it didn't go through.

    2. Re:In a word, no! by jasenj1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This would lead to the country being run by career bureaucrats. The newly elected people would be controlled by the support staff. And, a lot of those chosen by the lottery very likely wouldn't have the brain-power to understand what was going on.

      IMHO, politics in the USA is focused way too much at the federal level. If the local newspapers, TV news and such would cover LOCAL politics more, and local politicians had far more influence over our lives, the average citizen would feel their vote counted a whole lot more. As it is now, you constantly here how the feds are doling out money for this and that, and local & state governments line up to get their hand out. I don't think the framers of our nation intended for the Fed to be anywhere near as powerful as it is.

      I'll stop rambling now.

      - Jasen.

  2. No way by corebreech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not until we can devise a foolproof way of ensuring against voter fraud that the layperson can understand.

    Schneier makes an attempt at this but it's pretty convoluted, I'm not even sure I understand it all and I at least know a little about this kind of stuff.

    We may have to consider publishing who a person votes for. I know it goes against the grain of a longstanding tradition, but to make the protocol simple enough for the average person to understand while keeping it free of fraud may require nothing less.

  3. Voter apathy is not a problem. by praksys · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (1) Anyone who is too lazy to go to a polling station should not be voting anyway. If they do not care enough to make that much effort, then it is highly unlikely that they would care enought to get informed, and make a good choice.

    (2) If people are apathetic because they do not like any of the choices available then making it easier to vote will have no effect (let's see - would you like to eat broken glass or dog-food? Would delivery to your door-step make the choice easier?).

    (3) If people are apathetic because they would be equally happy with either party then again making it easier to vote will not make a difference.

  4. Voting for idiots or idiots voting? by stilwebm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With E-Voting you have to worry about another problem. Spontaneous, apathetic voters who are voting.

    Have you ever been in a political discussion where you wonder how the other person can even begin to believe his or her arguments are sound? Remember what AOL joining the Internet did to newsgroups, etc?

  5. Oregon, a Unique Experiment of Its Own by afabbro · · Score: 4, Informative
    We have mail-in voting here in Oregon. It's ridiculously easy to vote. The government mails you the form and a voter guide, into which anyone can put a page of his two cents for some fee (I think $500 - candidates, etc. get free pages).

    Mark, put in envelope, put in mail. Very easy. We still have low voter turnout. Even when the issue is beyond the normal election - e.g., "vote yes to raise your income taxes, vote no to not raise them" - we still don't see much participation.

    I doubt whether voting on-line would change anything. It's marginally more convenient (no need to physically put the letter in the mailbox) but...

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  6. Linus Torvalds elected President in 2010 by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 5, Funny

    By a landslide write-in upset of 97 trillion votes. Electronic fraud is suspected in the election, results of the investigation are pending...

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  7. Lesser of two evils==Duverger's Law by robla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The little dig at the end of the CmdrTaco's intro is absolutely correct. There's a pretty big link between voter apathy and the "lesser of two evils" problem. The root cause for the lesser of two evils problem is Duverger's Law, which gives us the two party system. The link between voter apathy and two-party systems is pretty unmistakable, and there's a lot of research on the subject showing it. Read the Wikipedia link above for good starting reference material.

    Rob Lanphier
    p.s. Visit Electorama! for more on this subject

  8. Why the hell would I want to cure voter apathy? by E1v!$ · · Score: 4, Funny

    My vote has more weight the way things are now!

  9. Electronic voting is illegal here by Quixadhal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I live in Michigan. Thanks to our super-DMCA law, which makes it a felony to conceal the source of any electronic transmission, we cannot have E-voting machines unless we give up anonymous votes.

    "What's good enough for Granddad, is good enough for me. The way it was, that's the way it's got to be."

  10. An awful lot of "squelch the masses" replies... by Cutriss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know...Frankly I'm shocked, and not surprised. A lot of the replies here seem to be concerned with the idea that if you make it easier for voters to do their civic duty, you get people who really don't give a damn tilting the scales one way or the other.

    But that is what democracy is all about! It's not about "power to the rich" or "power to the intellectuals"...which often wind up being synonymous.

    If you stand against online voting because it would "dilute the vote", then you're essentially arguing the same position that the South argued before the American Civil War, that "all people should count for tax purposes, but they don't get a vote". You can argue against it for many other reasons (lack of security, infrastructure, etc)...but *please* don't pick that one.

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    1. Re:An awful lot of "squelch the masses" replies... by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Let me put it this way:
      1. Voters are apathetic.
      2. Apathetic voters vote in a truly random fashion.
      3. E-voting (ignoring all the inherent problems of such a scheme) will only really draw new apathetic voters.
      4. With truly random apathetic votes, they will not have any real effect on the election results.
      5. Implementing e-voting is not cheap.
      I'm against e-voting because I don't see the point in spending money to change absolutely nothing.

      Of course, I'm also against the concept because it introduces unnecesary complecations into the voting process where problems can occur (why do you need Twenty-First Century technology to do something that Nineteenth Century technology can do just as well with less room for error?), but that's another subject.
  11. Unconstitutional in many states by coyote-san · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any election system which allows a voter to prove how he voted is unconstitutional in many states. This includes publishing ballots by name, publishing ballots by issued ID, etc. I know Colorado has this provision in its constitution because it came up when a local performance artist/election system designer tried to convince the City of Boulder to try telephone voting using software to be written by student volunteers.

    The reason for this restriction, as others have stated, is to prevent election fraud. If you can't prove how you voted, there's no point in buying votes or attempting to coerce voters.

    The other manifestation of the same restriction is that you must vote in private. Nobody can join you in the voting booth, etc. After all, external proof of how you voted is irrelevant if some 300 lb guy with a lead pipe is in the booth with you.

    Ironically, this is provided by voting in public. Since others are around, nobody can force themselves into your voting booth.

    But e-voting systems fail miserably at this. If I can vote from the convenience of my home:

    - a battered woman can be forced to vote "the right way" by her abusive husband. (or use "spouse" all around, since there are some battered husbands)

    - an employee can be forced to vote in his boss's office.

    - a church group can get together to pray and then "Witness" each other voting the right way.

    and so forth. All highly illegal, but difficult to prove and expensive to buck since you're still beaten up, fired, excommunicated, whatever.

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    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  12. Suggestion: allow saying NO. by TheLink · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Right now, most voting systems only allow you to say "yes".

    From anecdotal evidence there seems to be a significant number of eligible voters who can't bring themselves to say "yes" to any candidate. They don't feel like taking the trouble to go to a voting booth to say "yes" to the least disliked candidate, or going there and making a spoilt vote as a sign of their displeasure.

    I suggest that if voters could place a negative vote there would be less apathy.

    For example a "No" vote would subtract the total vote tally = -1 . "Don't care" = 0. "Yes" = +1. A net-unpopular candidate will have a negative score. If all candidates are in the negative, then maybe the least negative scored candidate should still win, but have a much shorter term (and not be able to credibly brag about having support of the majority :) ).

    Would you feel like voting then?

    You also get better information. A controversial candidate will have lots of Yes and No votes. You'd be able to have a clearer view of voter disatisfaction.

    But I'm sure politicians don't want this sort of thing, and so this is unlikely to happen.

    Oh well.

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