Hamvention

amateur radio buff writes "The Hamvention is coming up on May 16 - 18, for all you amateur radio people out there. This is the worlds biggest Ham fest held in Dayton, Ohio. With over 2500+ space outdoor vendor, and 500 inside exhibit spaces, find any amateur radio and electronic items there. Also the The 11th Annual Dayton Contest Dinner is held this year too! Dont miss it!"

Comments

Ham Nerds

[iamdrscience]

I think a friend of mine said it best; "You can be into ham radios and you can be into computers, but being into both is taking it just a little too far".

His dad "took it too far" by the way.

Re:Ham Nerds

[Blaine Hilton]

Very true, although the two can be highly interwoven with like technologies. Now just add in model rocketry and you can really have some interesting experiences.

Re:Ham Nerds

[Bruce Perens]

Oops...

K6BP

Re:Ham Nerds

[Anonymous Coward]

These days, you have to be into computers to operate using the newer digital modes available.

Before the Internet took off in the consumer sector, hams were using their computers to participate in TCP/IP networks via packet radio in the VHF bands.

It doesn't take a lot of money or effort to get started these days. There are plenty of used radios available cheap and anyone with half a brain can study and pass the license exam.

It's still cool to throw up a simple piece of wire in a tree and communicate with someone halfway around the world.

Check out http://www.arrl.org for more information.

Re:Ham Nerds

[ChuckleBug]

I think a friend of mine said it best; "You can be into ham radios and you can be into computers, but being into both is taking it just a little too far".

Problem is, it's getting harder and harder to be into ham radio without being into computers. Digital modes are used more and more, and computers are used for a lot of related things, like satellite tracking, timekeeping, logging, transceiver control, beam headings, etc. True, a lot of these things can be done without computers, but they are ideally suited for computers to manage.

It's kind of a shame ham radio has for being such a nerdy pursuit. It can be a lot of fun, and it has a lot of depth as a hobby.

Encapsulating IP into RF

[jortega]

Slashdotted Does any one know how I would be able to encapsulate IP into RF.????

Re:Encapsulating IP into RF

[zcat_NZ]

Stuff to google for;

• AlohaNet - TCP/IP over RF back in 1970
  
• Phil Karn/KA9Q - was keen on TCP/IP and wrote his own OS for doing TCP/IP over packet radio back in 1985.. Most hams were happy with AX25 and TCP/IP got to be known as "That Crap Phil Is Pushing"
  

Scouts and Ham Radios - JOTR

[implex]

When I was in scouts in Oz I remembered looking forward to the Jamboree On The Air in October each year.
http://www.scout.org/wse/jota.shtml

Off topic? No - about 48 or more hours (due to time zones) of talking to other scouts across the world. Pre-internet ;-)

Annual?

[groundpig]

Also the The 11th Annual Dayton Contest Dinner is held this year too!

Isn't it held every year?

the other white meat

[swankypimp]

D'Oh! I clicked "Read More..." before I realized that the article was not about sweet, sweet pork. A Hamvention like that I could really get into. Stupid radios.

Re:the other white meat

[Gleng]

I saw "Hamvention" and thought it was an article about inventing cool things out of ham.

Oh well...

Re:the other white meat

[polin8]

You were thinking spamvention

Re:available bandwidth?

[Anonymous Coward]

At this particular event, every available piece of spectrum in the 2m and 70cm bands will be in use. CTCSS, DCS, and DSQ are all very helpful for filtering out what you want to hear from what you don't want to hear. And if at first you get stepped on (while transmitting), try, try again.

IMHO, physical crowding of bodies is a bigger problem than frequency congestion.

Since no one has mentioned it yet...

[Pettifogger]

Before the inevitable joke comes, yes, you can run Linux with Amateur Radio! Go take a look at:

http://radio.linux.org.au/

And there are many other sites, too. I disagree with what someone stated earlier about being both into computers and amateur radio taking it too far. Believe it or not, there's a lot of overlap between the two. Hams often spend a lot of time tweaking their stations, building stuff, and completely customizing their equipment. Sound familiar to anyone on Slashdot?

73, KG6JBF

Oh, simpler times...

[MrPerfekt]

My dad took me to the good ol' hamvention every year for about 8 years. I went since I was 7 or so. Good times. I remember when it was held in the middle of April and you froze your butt off at your table space trying to sell your old nintendo games. Not that gradually nudging it into May helped that much with the weather.

In any case, this is hardly new so if you're just learning about this for the first time, where have you been?

But seriously, my experience is that this event as with most ham radio things has been dwindling over the years. Anyone else feel that way?

It's a shame too because the community spirit of the ham radio operators rivals that of the early days of the Internet. But the Internet has lost its spark (or at least it's friendliness) far faster than amatuer radio.

But at least we have the memories.

Re:Oh, simpler times...

[Gavin Rogers]

But seriously, my experience is that this event as with most ham radio things has been dwindling over the years. Anyone else feel that way?

It's a shame too because the community spirit of the ham radio operators rivals that of the early days of the Internet. But the Internet has lost its spark (or at least it's friendliness) far faster than amatuer radio.

Its true that in many countries amateur radio licenses have started to fall in number... some blame "the internet" and others say that it's "young people" who have no interest anymore in technical hobbies. Hardly. I'm 24!

Amateur radio has changed as times go on. unable to put up big antennas in your back yard to work stations internationally? All you have to do is pick up your handheld radio and connect via a voice-over-IP gateway and talk all you want worldwide.

The UK's foundation license and Australia's proposed introductory license are trying to solve the problem we all seem to have of "no time for that". By making that first step into the hobby that much easier to get, more people are willing to give it a go.

It is a fun and rewarding hobby that goes well with computing as a hobby (a different level of geekdom?) or as a different technical hobby if you're stuck with computers all day at work...

The spark is still there! :-)

Gavin
VK6HGR

Re:Oh, simpler times...

[Chuck Milam]

...some blame "the internet" and others say that it's "young people" who have no interest anymore in technical hobbies.

I blame the Internet and cable TV. No kidding. I was headed to a Linux Business Expo in the Twin Cities a couple years ago with some of my close (and very interested in technical hobbies) friends. We drove my car, and I was tuning around the HF bands as we made our way across town in the morning hours. The guys were interested for all of about 2 minutes. They were extremely disappointed that I couldn't just dial up whatever country they wanted. No kidding. It was like they expected me to dial in the [Japan|Germany|Mexico|France] channel, and have a open direct line to the country immediately.

Once I explained that HF SSB mobile was more "art" in the sense that you had to bascially take what was on depending on the time of day, band conditions, whether someone was actually on, etc., they lost all interest.

All too used to punching in a channel or a web address and having content delivered immediately, I guess.

--Chuck, KF9FR

Re:Oh, simpler times...

[KC7GR]

I think the biggest change I've seen is that the "tinkerers" (those who modify commercial gear for ham purposes, or design their own stuff) are no longer so great a force in the hobby. The hams who take the hobby seriously enough to have a labful of RF test gear, and who know how to use it, seem to be getting increasingly rare. I know, because I'm one of them! ;-)

It used to be that I could turn on any of the local 2m (VHF) or 70cm (UHF) repeater channels, and hear a discussion going on that at least included something technical. It used to be that I could pop onto those same channels with a technical question, and chances were good that someone would know how to answer it.

Not any more. It seems that I can have a conversation with a dozen different hams, and out of them there will be 1-2 that know anything more about their radio than how to turn it on and use it. "Appliance Operators," once a rarity in the ham field, have become largely the norm.

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one wing, it's sad, I think, to see so many people take their exams just for the sake of taking them, and then forget everything they learned and have no further interest in expanding their electronics knowledge.

On the other wing, a big piece of my side business is dependent on those who choose not to do the technical side for themselves. I try to give my customers a bit of free education as they walk out the door with their newly-programmed radio, but I never know where they're going to go with it.

Also, don't forget that tinkerers need stuff to tinker with. The quality and quantity of stuff showing up at many ham swap meets all over the country seems to be going down. I think it's due largely to the depredations of Ebay. Why comb the swaps when you can search for goodies from your easy chair?

I have an answer for that. Social skills! Ham swaps are more than swaps; they're social gatherings, just like the rest of any ham convention. As I've said on my Ebay 'About Me' page, where can you get a clearer impression of who you're buying stuff from? By looking at someone's feedback record, or looking them in the eye and watching how they interact in real time?

Anyway, I've drifted off-topic enough. I plan to make the 'pilgrimage' to Dayton, possibly in 2004. Until then, those of you that are going, good luck and good journey.

73 de KC7GR

Re:Oh, simpler times...

[covertlaw]

There's nothing in a VX-1R that can't be replaced with the proper equipment and skills. You can purchase a PACE soldering system and work with SMT technology fairly easily. All it takes is a little more education and practice to work with the new technology.

Quite honestly, I blame the ARRL for not including information on SMT technology in the training manuals. It really isn't that much more complicated than older thru-hole components and isn't that difficult to work with.

73, KD5BFE

Re:available bandwidth?

[N3Bruce]

The VHF and UHF amateur bands can get a little crowded with all of those HTs walking around, plus the communications by the event organizers. There is more room on UHF (420-450 Mhz) than on VHF (144-148 Mhz). Also add in all the traffic for cell phones and demonstrations of different modes and it is sometimes hard to find a quiet frequency, based on my observations at the Timmonium, Maryland hamfest. Patience is sometimes needed, but there is usually enough bandwidth that a frequency opens up. Usually groups of hams will work on a pre-agreed frequency, and there are only so many simplex channels and repeaters within HT range to go around, so patience and courtesy goes a long way. Perhaps a few experiments with trunking on the amateur bands could extend the limited bandwidth, but since large hamfests are local and infrequent events, there seems fairly little incentive to push the technology, and get the rules changed to allow it.

Don't click the link

[Call Me Black Cloud]

If you haven't heard about tubgirl, trust me, you don't want to find out. If you click the link you'll think, "Oh, I should have listened to that guy on slashdot who told me not to click the link".

You have been warned.

Ham radio swap meets are so over

[Animats]

That's what Ebay is for.

Even surplus stores are dead. In Silicon Valley, there are few left. Halted Specialties has the same crap it's had for the last decade. Action Computer has obsolete used PCs that cost more than new ones of equivalent power. The surplus store on 101 near San Tomas has rejected power tools from third-world countries. Alan Steel and Supply has tons of rusted-out equipment stored outdoors. (Good place to buy stainless steel; lousy for surplus). Wierd Stuff Warehouse has ancient Sun systems and ISDN networking gear.

Electronic surplus is a victim of Moore's law. The new stuff is better and cheaper than the old stuff. Besides, components are so specialized today that used parts are mostly useless.

Re:Ham radio swap meets are so over

[KC7GR]

I could not disagree more!

Every year, I make it a point to attend a minimum of four ham swap meets; the big Mike & Key event in Puyallup, the two in the Bay Area (Livermore and Foothill), and the Radio Club of Tacoma event. I try to do more if I can.

The quality and quantity of gear at each one fluctuates wildly, year-to-year, as do the prices. That's part of the fun! While Ebay has the greater variety, in many cases, it can never substitute for the fun and satisfaction of making a face-to-face deal. Besides getting the gear on-the-spot, you can get a far better "feel" for whether you want to deal with someone when you're staring them in the face.

You say "The new stuff is better and cheaper than the old stuff." While there is some truth to that, in terms of 'cheaper,' there is also a lot of "WRONG!" in terms of 'better.'

A perfect example is test equipment, especially oscilloscopes. Tektronix completely discontinued their analog 'scope line beginning in 2000. However, their 7000-series (yes, analog) hardware can still beat the crap out of most modern stuff in terms of durability, flexibility, and value for the $$. Earlier this year, I bought a 7904A mainframe, with a basic bandwidth of 500MHz, from a local surplus place for $400. Plug-ins for it would have run around another $200 if I didn't have them already.

Would you like to tell me where I could have gotten a new O-scope, good to at least 500MHz and at least as durable, versatile, and well-made as the Tek unit for $600?

No? I didn't think so. ;-)

My point is that ham swap meets and electronic surplus stores still have a firm place in this world. Don't you dare judge them all by what you're seeing in the Bay Area! I've visited some places in Florida (Orlando & Melbourne) that still have Good Stuff at Good Prices, and I had outstanding luck at the 2002 Mike & Key and RCT swap meets.

In fact (shameless plug alert!), I have part of my web site dedicated to listings of Washington state and California (at least the Bay Area) surplus places and ham swap meets. I happen to agree with you on HSC, but there are other spots you should check out.

I guess the best way to say it is that both Ebay and ham swaps still have a firm place in this world. One will never take the place of the other, so you should use them both. Between the two of them, you will likely never lack in whatever you search for.

Re:Ham radio swap meets are so over

[Mister Transistor]

You are so right. With one exception. That's the Hamvention. Not to sound grandiose, but, what if you get almost the entire audience you are selling to on e-bay into the same place at one time all together to look at (and hopefully buy) your stuff?

The Hamvention is the grand-daddy of all Hamfests, which means people come from all around the US (World?) to attend. You then have the wide audience advantage you get with e-bay.

Also, there's nothing like being able to get your hands around what you are trying to buy, being able to test, prod, and sniff it, being able to ask questions before you buy a potential boat anchor. Also besides paying an admission, there's no "per auction" charges to display or sell items.

And finally, the other major function of Hamfests is to physically get together with your freinds and radio contacts, and go have a beer or dinner afterward. E-mail doesn't cut it for the social requirements.

What you have said is true for local small hamfests, unfortunately. You have a limited audience from a limited locale, and you keep seeing the same landfill each time you go there.

(Look for me at Dayton - I'll be there - Wearing my "Mad Scientist's Local 42 Union shirt").

as an amateur:

[Anonymous Coward]

I realise that most if not all of the people who read and post to this site are computer geeks in one way or another. (I am)

If you are into computers for the pure technical geek aspects, try out amateur radio. I guarantee that you won't be disappointed. There are so many different things you can do in ham that you won't be bored. I've done shortwave, packet radio, satelite, earth-moon-earth bouce, and microwave radio etc. etc. Amateur radio gives you an oppourtunity to delve into physics...

Oftentimes amateur radio is seen as an "old man's" game, as many of the newer geeks jump into computers immediately, and choose programming and networking as their fix of choice. I'd like to see more young people on the air! (I'm 25)

Anyway, give it a try, it doesn't cost much to get started.

Re:available bandwidth?

[KC7GR]

No longer required to be skilled in CW? Perhaps not in the UK. In the States, however, one still needs to be proficient to 5 WPM CW to go any higher than a Technician-class license.

The dividing point is HF privileges (1-30MHz). If you want to work HF (with the possible exception of the 10-meter band), and you live in the U.S., you still have to pass a minimal CW test.

I'm Jewish

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I still attend?

ham?

[Unominous Coward]

(Homer): Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
(Lisa): No.
(Homer): Ham?
(Lisa): No!
(Homer): Pork chops?
(Lisa): Dad! Those all come from the same animal!
(Homer): Heh heh heh ... ooh ... yeah right, Lisa. A wonderful ... magical animal.

Been there, done that.

[MsWillow]

Back when I used to live in Chicago (instead of Seattle), I used to go to these things. This was a great place to talk with other tech nerds - why, my first Linux CDRom came from a hamfest (Slackware, long time ago). Then one year I went to a talk, and had my 2M handie stolen. That kind of put an end to me wanting to go back, ever again. :(

Yes, these things can be fun, but they're also well-known, and well-loved, by all the thieves around. If you must go, lock the car, don't carry anything, use a fanny pack instead of a wallet or purse, and in general treat it like you were vacationing in a hostile country. Not my idea of a fun vacation, but a chaqu'un son gout.

Ham-Hams on the brain...

[d_redguy]

I thought this was gonna be about hamsters. You see, the "male" hamster that my wife bought at Petsmart 3 weeks ago just had a litter. We have our own little Hamvention going on in our bedroom (grumble-grumble).

I love going to this!

[gregm]

Seriously talk about a bunch of extreme geeks... Guys? runnning around with 12' wips attached to their tinfoil covered army helmets talking to their buddies one aisle overwith a handheld while simultaneously talking to their mom on a cell while pecking away at their Palm. It's a real hoot to just walk around and watch some of these people. The have computer stuff there too.

Back in the day I used to go to buy exotic, hard to find stuff like RJ-45 crimpers and cheap, used drives, cpu fans etc. Now you can pickup a pair of crimpers at Lowes and computer parts are so cheap and easy to order off the net the desire to go has dimished for me some.

Re:available bandwidth?

[Chuck Milam]

At [Dayton] Hamvention, you bet there is a bandwidth crowding problem...especially on the more popular 2M and 440 bands. Almost every available frequency is in use. Most of my crew has now got 6M or 1.2GHz capability in their HTs, so we're hoping to move off to somewhere a little less crowded at Dayton this year.

--Chuck, KF9FR

Sorry to hear the valley is lacking...

[Penguin Follower]

but those things are still around here in Ohio. :)

We have Hamvention, of course, every year. We also have a large surplus store called Mendelsons in Dayton (cool place to get any and everything electronic -- well almost). There are some other places to get stuff, too. (In Fairborn, we have a little store called Midwest Electronics Surplus.)

However, you are correct... I love eBay for grabbing cheap stuff. I aquired my beige G3 desktop from eBay ;)

Anyhow, I love Hamvention. :) I just don't get to go every year. :( And there are plenty of other electronics besides radios at Hamvention each year.

Peace!
~Steve

Re:Hell yes

[ch-chuck]

The next fest in line for me is Manassas VA - I usually score something neat/cheap there. June 1.

That's "Mr. Ham Nerd" to you

[The Tyro]

Yep, guilty on that count myself; been a licensed HAM since undergraduate.

For people who have never gone to the Dayton Hamvention, you are really missing quite an event. I live close to dayton, and try to go every year. They sell all kinds of radios and such, but they also sell tons of computer equipment, and virtually anything electronic... Need an actual working Cellular base station? There's a guy in the parking lot who will sell you one; put it in your truck and haul it home. You'll find that booth right next to one selling old copies of 2600 magazine. Come to think of it, the Hamvention was the first place I saw the famous Winamp plugin Holiday Dancer... playing on 15 monitors at once. That what I call eye catching...

It's a great place to get extra (insert ANY kind of battery here), diagnostic/test equipment, components, antennas... electronic doodads galore. If you're any kind of hardware hacker (particularly Wifi), I'll bet anything you need can be found there.

I'll be there... oh yes.

time is not static

[zogger]

--the equipment has gotten much worse to work on, and cheaper to just replace and upgrade. There's not as much incentive. What used to require changing crystals and extensive modding is now just 100 dollars away at the store, already done for you. I'd also say that video games taking over as a hobby was more of a factor in declining interest than just "the internet" and computers. Extremely similar time frame if you think on it some. Another factor was cost of telephony changing, and cell phones becoming available, and actually *working* to some extent. Cell phones with free (more or less) long distance almost eliminated any need for long distance radio, at least for most people. On and on, I don't think any one particular reason lead to the decline, just a combination of factors all happening around the same time. It's also a hobby that requires a lot of study and actual skull sweat, whereas our society is now designed around short attention spans, rote learning and consumerism, programmed almost from birth and emphasized in the public schools. If it's not instant, it's not *real*.

Some Great Linux-compatible transceivers, scanners

[Anonymous Coward]

interested in getting started? there are some great Linux-compatible scanners, wideband receivers and transceivers (many supported by tk/tcl apps from bob parnass at http://parnass.com):

- Radio Shack Pro-92 scanner, supported by tk92; big, clunky, but works great

- Yaesu vr-120d, vr-500 wideband receivers, supported by tk120 and tk500; truly amazing long-life on 2 AAs!

- ICOM ic-r2 wideband receiver, supported tk2; a tiny wideband receiver!

- ICOM ic-q7a, a tiny dual-band transceiver the same size at the ic-r2, suppported by tk7...

- Yaesu vx-5r, multi-band handheld transceiver, supported by a simple image-cloning C program for Linux...

- Ten-Tec RX-320, serial-controlled high-frequency receiver, supported by the rx320 command-line program and rx320 xclass-enabled X client...

wish i could make it to the hamvention; maybe next year...

morning + slashdot = bad

[bobgoatcheese]

Oh man...I shouldn't read slashdot first thing in the morning...the first thing I thought when I saw the headline was, "I bet there's tasty sandwhiches at this thing, but how'd that get on the frontpage?"

Need coffee....

Re:available bandwidth?

[Fastolfe]

I don't know that I would even consider it legacy. If you're trying to reach a station that's really far away, complex modulations are easily lost in the noise. Some times CW is the only way you can get a signal out at an appreciable distance.

In addition, it's the "lowest common denominator" for station identifications, making it useful if you're listening to a signal that identifies itself with morse.