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Looking at Longhorn
ShinyPlasticBag writes "Paul Thurrott has an excellent preview of Longhorn milestone five over at his Supersite for Windows. It looks like this may be Microsoft's equivalent to OS X -- the next version of Windows will have a 3D accelerated desktop and other graphical goodies. In addition to this, it will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years."
git with the program dude.
Here is a mirror.
I Didn't get a chance to fix the links to the images, so Here is the directory with a dump of them.
(And where is the Coward option?)
--sig fault--
I didn't know what it was... hopefully this'll be useful for other people.
From whatis.com
A journaling file system is a fault-resilient file system in which data integrity is ensured because updates to directories and bitmaps are constantly written to a serial log on disk before the original disk log is updated. In the event of a system failure, a full journaling filesystem ensures that the data on the disk has been restored to its pre-crash configuration. It also recovers unsaved data and stores it in the location where it would have gone if the computer had not crashed, making it an important feature for mission-critical applications.
Not all operating systems provide the same journaling technology. Windows NT offers a less robust version of the full system. If your Windows NT system crashes, you may not lose the entire disk volume, but you will likely lose all the data that hadn't yet been written to the disk prior to the crash. By the same token, the default Linux system, ext2fs, does not journal at all. That means, a system crash--although infrequent in a Linux environment--can corrupt an entire disk volume.
However, XFS, a journaling file system from Silicon Graphics, became a part of the open-source community in 1999 and, therefore, has had important implications for Linux developers, who previously lacked such insurance features. Capable of recovering from most unexpected interruptions in less than a second, XFS epitomizes the high-performance journaling filesystem of the future.
The earliest journaling file systems, created in the mid-1980s, included Veritas, Tolerant, and IBM's JFS. With increasing demands being placed on file systems to support terabytes of data, thousands upon thousands of files per directory and 64-bit capability, it is expected that interest will continue to grow in high-performance journaling file systems like XFS.
sig.
Microsoft's equivalent to OS X...will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years."
And OS X users have had for months...
W
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This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
In addition to this, it will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years.
NTFS (Windows 2000, Windows XP, et al.) is a journaling file system, actually.
Do you like German cars?
In addition to this, it will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years
And Windows users have had since... 1994? NTFS is journaling, and was WELL before e2fs was... (any of you old-school Linux users remember pulling the plug or hitting power on your Linux box back in the day and immediately screaming "OH SHIT!" when you realize you probably just corrupted a whole slew of data? I do.)
No journaling file system guarantees that any unsaved data will be preserved in the event of a system crash. Data that's in RAM in the disk write cache is lost in the event of a crash. That has nothing to do with the file system.
Journaling file systems are transaction based. If a transaction fails partway through (IE the system crashes) the state of the disk is the same as if the transaction had never started, and is thus always consistent.
You would have to be doing something extra weird to risk corrupting an entire ext2 volume in the event of a crash. Also the article doesn't mention that ext3 IS ext2 with a journal added, it's not a totally different file system. In fact an ext3 file system that is cleanly unmounted can be mounted as an ext2 file system, FYI.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
NTFS was a journaling filesystem from the start; even before NT4 came out. It was a journaling filesystem before Reiserfs or EXT3 even had a single line of code written. You can set it up to fully journal the filesystem data as well (it only does metadata by default). It did change with NT 5, but the journaling capabilities still existed in prior versions. More documentation can be found here
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Winmodems are designed to use M$ Windows system calls to offload processing power from the hardware to the CPU. Same with Winprinters. This is why they have "Win" in the name. Why the hell should there be a law against this? I can still buy any REAL modem and it will work flawlessly with Linux. If your hardware doesn't work with Linux, get hardware that does. Start checking the HCL before you go to Best Buy.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
The new big feature of the filesystem is not that it's journalling.
They are integrating the filesystem with their SQL engine so that files are easily searchable with the multiple GB hard drives everyone will have by the time 2005 rolls around. The big feature is that it's a database filesystem called WinFS.
I guess the submitters of the article don't even read the articles anymore! Gotta love the quip at the end of the summary--makes him look even more moronic. NTFS has been a journalling file system since its inception. Many years before ext3 reared its ugly head.
"Sufferin' succotash."
MS isn't using OpenGL, they're using DirectX. E17 will never be finished, and Transluxent is currently an unfinished, unreliable hack. MS is most certainly not copying either one of them. They might, however, be copying Quartz Extreme.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
They would ask you why you were dumb enough to actaully GO to compusa.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
I'd just like to add to that...
/tmp and /home/public (FTP/SMB area) partitions, and EXT3 on more critical ones.
XFS, while I love it for its performance, journals metadata only. So files won't be lost, but their contents may be. ReiserFS is very similar. EXT3, while much clunkier, does data journaling as well. For these reasons I use XFS on
Jeremy
"3D accelerated desktop" is too easy to misinterpret. What's really going is that a lot of graphics tasks (compositing, mostly) are offloaded to the GPU. The real advantage to having the entire screen as a GL context means that tricks that used to be very processor-intensive are now ready for everyday use. OS X's use of transparency was a bit much for a 400Mhz G3, but a modern graphics card barely notices the load. The Terminal could use transparent windows since day 1, but with a significant performance hit; with QE that hit is gone and some people leave their windows transparent all the time. The genie effect used to take up 100% of pretty much every Mac's CPU, with the GPU handling the grunt work of the bitmap distortion there's enough power left over that DVDs actually keep playing while they are being genied. The full-screen zoom tool (for the visually impaired) uses bilinear filtering, and again with virtually zero performance hit - I use it to watch postage-stamp streaming movies embedded in web pages at full screen.
A 3D-accelerated desktop is just the logical next step after blitting acceleration from a 2D card.
if you peek around /etc/security/time.conf, PAM (which redhat uses at least) will manage access control for you that way.
Any application that uses PAM will automatically time-locked accordingly.
Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?
Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Disk Management
Select the partition, right click on 'Change Drice Letter and Paths' , select 'Change' and you'll be presented with two option. One is to mount the drive as a traditional letter, the other as a directory.
The NT line has been using NTFS for over a decade now.
The submitter of the article was simply an idiot looking to mention "Linux" in some way in a Slashdot article summary.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Dude, you should use a RAM-based filesystem for /tmp. You shouldn't rely on /tmp being persistent across a reboot.
I believe (if I'm not mistaken) ramfs is the way to go for /tmp. It's a RAM disk that can push to swap as needed. The reason you want to do this is that most temporary files exist for less than 30 seconds. Thus, there's never any reason to touch the disk for these unless there is simply not enough RAM.
If a RAM-based fs doesn't turn your crank, then just use the one that performs the best for losts of short-lived small to medium-sized files.
--JoeProgram Intellivision!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Recently, there was a Slashdot article [slashdot.org] here about a "piles" feature that Apple had patented in June 2001 that sounds very familiar. Screenshot of piles [mac.com] here looks different, but the concepts appear similar:
:-) (double click an end point when you want to follow a link)
It doesn't much look like Apple's "Piles" but more like PARC's Hyperbolic Tree, of 1994. This bit of software was spun off into a company named Inxight. Navigate their website using a Hyperbolic Tree. (good to see they eat their own dog food.)
If M$ finds a good use for Hyperbolic Tree navigation in Longhorn, more power to them. I have played with it off and on since 1998 and have found that without a mega-huge (as in 1600*1200+) resolution screen, you can't get much out of it.
Yes, NTFS is a journaling filesystem.
The poster made might not be aware of this.
Actually, ext3 is backwards compatible with ext2. In essence, ext3 is ext2 with a .journal file for journalling. You can mount an ext3 volume as an ext2, but you loose journaling.
tmpfs is actually even better. I resizes itself as need, so it only takes up as much memory as is needed.
Spencer Ogden
Yea, but it looks like butt and doesn't run the only OS I really care to use anymore.
That's just wrong on several levels.
First of all, the file system is not consistent after a crash: journaling file systems need to replay the journal in order to make it consistent. This is no different in principle from non-journaling file systems (which, traditionally, also have incorporated various features to permit recovery), it just happens to be faster.
Second, I/O APIs usually do not define a notion of "transaction" at the file system level, and even if they do, there aren't a whole lot of guarantees you can make that are particularly useful. In fact, journaling file systems and transaction-based file systems really are very different things. A journaling file system can be used to implement a transaction-based file system, but it can also be used just to implement fast recovery.
Third, for performance reasons, very few journaling file systems journal file content; they only worry about meta-data. And NTFS falls back a step further by making particularly weak guarantees. For example, if I create files "a", "b", and "c" in that sequence, with three separate programs, after a crash, any combination of those files may be present, and their content may be arbitrarily messed up.
So does ramfs. The difference between tmpfs and ramfs is that tmpfs is swappable, whereas ramfs is pinned in RAM. tmpfs is definititely the preferred choice for /tmp.
NTFS is a journaling file system, and Longhorn has a more advanced journaling file system that Linux can't not match. The new file system will classify files for you, from word document to mp3 files. You only need to type in keywords like "Picture taken in Feburary by John" it will show up a list of picture taken in Feburary by the name John. It is too powerful that Linux is still way behind.
If you're interested in backing up Reiser partitions, check out PartImage. It does a fair few different file systems, and is GPL.
This is not true. ext3 and ext2 have the same disk representation but they don't share code, at all. The fact that ext2 is mature doesn't really help ext3. People think ext3 is just ext2 with a few hacks to add journalling but it's actually a block level implementation of a journaling filesystem that just happens to use the same disk layout as ext2 for convenience. Your statement is sort of like saying that the NTFS code in Linux is mature because Windows has had NTFS for a few years now.
Pedro Côrte-Real.
Huh? Where did you get this?
As far as I know, Microsoft has NO plans on removing compatibility with older applications. I'm running Windows Server 2003, and I can still run Win16 apps as well as most DOS apps.
The parent is nothing but a troll. Yes, DRM in the OS is not a good thing. No, it will not have the profound impact that you think it will have. No one will stop you from running Linux on your computer.
DRM in the OS means very little. Application developers know that the adoption of a new OS is slow, and they will not do anything that would reduce their userbase.
kdm. Easy to configure, many useful options. You can even configure it to log you in automatically. Switch on your machine, go make coffee, come back, you're logged in and ready to start work, your previous session restored.
kuser can do this for you. Linux distributors often provide their own tools for this, for example SuSE, whose admin tools are handily integrated into the KDE Control Centre.
Play around with kicker, the KDE panel. It does most of the stuff that Longhorn thing does, plus lots more stuff which they haven't done.
I expect Gnome does some or all of these things too; I picked KDE because it's what I know.
Rik
(1) This UI is crap. Flashy and distracting.
(2) Check out MS' media-player thing on the 'dock'? Can we say "appicon"?
Really, where is all this innovation MS is talking about?
That spider-web like file-system navigation? Nothing new. There were 3D versions of stuff like that back in 1994 with Jurassic Park.
The problem MS and Apple face is that there really isn't anything much more to do. WindowManagers are already pretty much ok. Maybe a few tweaks here and there would fix minor flaws. However, nothing particularly major need be done. It's sort of like the design for the trashcan (real-life). When was the last innovation in trash-cans?
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
$3500 plus for a 14" 1ghz powermac? Naw.
No, but I hear you can get a 15.2" widescreen 1Ghz PowerBook for around $2800. With slot-loading DVD-R/CD-RW. And built-in wireless networking (nevermind the built-in gigabit ethernet). And half a gig of ram and a 60GB hard drive. And Radeon 9000/64MB graphics. And, to top it all off, the best desktop OS ever created.
I'll take a slightly thinner wallet for that.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Look here for one of several knowledgeable accounts of the history behind Microsoft's TCP/IP stack that are floating around the web.
Please be more careful before you declare that something has been proven.
I got it from here:
o rn
http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#longh
"Current Windows based software will not be compatible with the Longhorn filesystem".