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The War Between p2p and Record Companies Heating Up?
the-dude-man writes "Securityfocus.com Reports that there may be a new nasty turn to the battle between the p2p networks and the RIAA/MPAA. recently, the RIAA has been trying to flood kazza with files that appear to be valid copyrighted material (movies,mp3s, ect) but are empty or, in one case, of Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone, contain a voice file asking, "What the f*ck do you think you are doing?". The p2p networks are considering a possible move agianst the RIAA in response to this by using recently enacted anti-spam laws."
Almost sad to see a portion of such a large industry going through its death throes. I imagine the horse & buggy manufacturers acted much the same about 100 years ago...
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I sue the RIAA for $1.00 or something
I have to spend it quickly, because the RIAA is about to sue me for $17,000.
I'm not going to be the one who simultaneously antagonises the RIAA and admits in court that I tried to pirate music.
Most courts in an illegal contract will just leave the parties as they stand, unless one party can show less culpability such that they should be allowed some relief. The court could construe that by advertising a copyrighted work on a P2P network, that in itself is illegal, and therefore, whoever recieves that file would not be able to claim that they were defrauded by getting a fake file. While it's a nice conflict of law here, I don't think it will fly.
I spent ages on KaZaA looking for the fuck off Madonna track, filling my computer with propert Madonna material.
RIAA members are going to see their sales shrink again this year. Kazaa is only one manifestation of the mp3 trading that will doom them. Many I know, don't use Kazaa, they just trade with friends via CD-R, DC++ and S-FTP.
I was driving near the airport in SF in Feb. I looked at the car next to me. I saw a teenage girl leafing through a 3-ring binder full of CD-R's with band/album names drawn on the CD-R with a black marker. With or without Kazaa and public p2p, these guys are going to lose another 10% this year.
Musicians will have to make a living from live performances.
IEEE Spectrum Magazine's topic for the month of May is "Invasion of the Music Snatchers." A number of copying and filesharing attacks and counterattacks are discussed.
Many of this month's articles are online, but if you are not an IEEE member you are limited to the "publicfeature" URL's.
Flooding networks with spam files will just result in networks becoming smarter to route around the garbage. Suppose for example that new p2p networks use a weighted reputation system where individual content files can be rated by the users of the network. Of course, positive ratings by users who have good reputations would indicate that the file is good, likewise negative ratings for a file by reputable individuals would indicate that the file is garbage. Similar to how these comments are rated on Slashdot.
KaZaA Lite has a webpage with verified downloads (seems to be under construction, right now). Or just google. That simple.
Despite this, there is a rating system in KaZaA Lite.
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
...P2P trust model infrastructures.
It looks like the RIAA/MPAA are driving innovation, for a change.
The "what the fuck" clip has already even been remixed. The site with the links for that is here.
A screenshot of madonna's hacked site can be found here.
Any legal action taken by the P2P companies against RIAA would fail under equitable estoppel (aka. the "clean hands doctrine").
If the networks were simply being flooded with random garbage, they might have a case. But since the complaint is one of misrepresentation -- that the files appear to be valid copyrighted material -- the P2P networks clearly do not have "clean hands" with respect to people searching for those files.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
I just can't feel bad for anyone who intentionally tried to download Madonna 'music'.
you really havent been on kazza much have you?
I've backed up my home directory, all my software devlopment stuff..and docs...totaling about 650 megs after bzip...i gpg it with a 4096 bit key...then name it blade2.dvd.rip.avi and share it on kazza...ii did that 2 months ago and when i do a search for it i still find it on peoples shared folders..for some stupid reason people just dont delete stuff that turns out to be bad more often than not.
Ah well...kazza makes a great backup system
You can find the original "wtf do you think you're doing" Madonna mp3, along with a pile of remixes at the Madonna Remix Project.
I was watching Celebrity Justice of Fox (I know, I know) and apparently the person saying that line on the music files is Madonna herself.
Its dissappointing that people in the music industry dont seem to understand the concept of free advertising...
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone
... you mean to say someone has figured out her last name?
Wow
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
The RIAA should stick to legit services like Apple has started and stop the electronic goosing - it's hardly the high road.
The P2Ps should 'fess up, at least to themselves, lose the weak arguments (95 percent of what they claim as justification) and realize they are in fact trading in illegal-by-contract goods and should be grateful they're around this long.
Theyre really just treading water in "it's-only-illegal-if-you-get-caught land. Silly basis for an industry.
And remember, for the most part, you get what you pay for. It doesn't matter how scammed the traders get, and it doesn't matter what the RIAA does, it won't stop them.
A fair and well-managed system will. When it's reasonable, people will pay and use just like books. The VCR didn't kill the video rental or sales industry, and the copier doesn't stop a single sale at Borders or B&N. Granted digital copying makes things easier, and the ecoonomics helps, but that's what needs to be in the new model. Most people with most traditional media would rather have a legit copy than a pirated one.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
1) What the F*ck Do You Think You Are Doing? - Madonna ...
2) F*ck Off and Buy the %$#^*@! CD - Metallica
3) We Don't Want Your P2P - Hillary and the Shylocks
4)
In other entertainment news, a startling shift has occurred in Madonna's music style as the lyrics to her latest #1 single are found to be far less offensive than usual and the song far more musical in general.
Sigs are bad for your health.
... or is the RIAA getting real desperate? It amuses me that their broad 'onslaught' of lawsuits against P2P networks, downloaders, uploaders, etc.. as well as more 'creative' activities such as these envisioned to battle illegal copying of shared digital media had almost zero effect on its proliferation. P2P file sharing is alive and kicking and I just bought myself a brandnew Sony car radio that - big surprise - also plays MP3s (what irony I might add). UPS is also in the process of delivering my shiny new KISS DP-500 from Europe, which plays DVDs and - you probably guessed it - DivX and Xvid files as well (and it has an Ethernet port - droool ;-)
So, I really wonder what the RIAA's vision of the future is - obviously they are paying a lot of people (i.e. lawyers) very high consulting fees to come up with something to preserver their 'interest' (pun intended) - and this is the BEST they can come up with? LOL
Seriously - a friend of my and I came up with a working, commercial P2P digital distribution model 3 years ago, that would kick illegal copying to the curb since it actually rewarded people for downloading. We actually pitched it to the usual suspects and got laughed at. I'm actually surprised that noone has replicated our effort up to this point - maybe I'll pick up on it when I'm done with my current company.
Maybe Rosen should buy herself a copy of 'Sun Tsu' (a book about the art of warfare which predates the bible) - and I quote: 'fighting a protracted war against an overwhelming and resourceful enemy should be avoided at all cost.' It is time that the RIAA fesses up to its evils and relinquishes these silly stabs against P2P downloaders - they just wind up pissing off their greates asset - the kids willing to pay good money for concerts and 'affordable music' (Rosen: re-read the last sentence three times).
In most countries, it is not illegal to download copyrighted music. It's illegal to redistribute copyrighted music against the wishes of the copyright holder.
The RIAA can't come after you just for downloading music. You have to be actively re-sharing that music out again to break a law.
On the flip side, though, you are not procuring that music through legal/legitimate means, so you may not be granted certain protections and warranties that you might otherwise be granted, so your law suit might be tricky.
Your jurisdiction may differ, though.
After Madona flooded the P2Ps with mp3s of her repeatedly saying "what the fuck do you think you're doing?" somone took an appropriate response by hacking her website, posting her full new album on it, and writting "This is what the fuck I think I'm doing..."
Until it's declared otherwise I don't think I should have to deal with obscenities screamed at me by one group that doesn't like what I'm doing.
Ironic, isn't it, how quickly we forget about the First Amendment when it's somebody else's speech being protected instead of our own?
Asking somebody "What the fuck do you think are doing?" is not in any way, shape, or form illegal. So yes, you do have to deal with them saying that. Why is this country so hellbent on destroying the idea of free speech?
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
So you're the bastard responsible! I spent 7 days downloading that on dial-up!
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Soulseek, the P2P client, doesn't really have problems like that because of its more community-oriented nature. I have about 10 users that I download albums from who I know always have real mp3s ID3ed correctly at 192kbps.
My Journal - 1,337 fans and countin
I'll make music, so will every other musician, do you know why? The musicians dont make money selling CDs, we make money selling concert tickets!
I'd spread my music all over the net, just so I can sellout at all my concerts and make $20,000 in a day, about the same amount I'd make in a year selling CDs if I made anything at all.
Theres no shortage of wannabe musicians, some which have talent, I suggest you go outside more, theres free concerts all the time all over the place, because musicians are desperate for fans.
Fans matter more than CD sales, CD sales only matter to record companies, Fans go to concerts, buy Tshirts, and give musicians the big money.
A musician is not a doctor or engineer, you arent trained to do it, you can take a kid and give him a mic and this kid could be the best singer of all time (Think Michael Jackson),
Under this Model we will have increased supply, the quality will be just as good, but because there will be more to choose from, YOU might not like alot of the new music flooding the market, this doesnt change the fact that there will be alot of music you will like.
Whats wrong with increasing the supply? Music is not a profession its an art.
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I am reading through all these comments and no one seems to have nailed it.
The way I see it there are several reasons the RIAA is in trouble.
(in no particular order)
1. Todays music sucks donkey ass through a crazy straw. This is the oldest reason, and the reason why the RIAA loosing money predates Napster. On the surface it sounds like I am blaming the musicians, after all they are making the music. Wrong. Many years ago the RIAA realized that POP music is where all the money is. They have been ignoring decent artists for a while now in favor for people whom they consider low risk. It is those risky folks that put out great music.
2. Failure to acknowledge and take advantage of a changing marketplace. If the RIAA had been on the forefront of digital downloads this would be an entirely different, and I suspect legal marketplace. Instead they screamed and kicked like a 4 year old. No amount of wishing and suing will make the digital domain go away. For whatever reason that I cannot understand the RIAA refuses to even consider to adapt. My best guess is it is a poorly chosen use of 'pride'.
3. Abuse of there most loyal customers. I used to buy a lot of music. Something along the lines of 2 to 3 albums a month with the occasional splurge of a 5 album or a box set purchase. Then I began learning about my computer. Then I bought a CDRW drive. What I did next was to back up my investment. I am tired of scratching overpriced CD's and making them useless. I am tired of having them stolen. I am tired of having to track them down when I have misplace them. I am tired of having to decide what gets kept at work and what not. A PC and a CDRW drive (legally too I might ad) resolves all those problems. Now whenever I buy a CD I feel like a scmuck. I feel like I am being treated so badly by these people I must be out of my mind to spend money on the overpriced product.
That is no way for an industry to act. I should feel good buying there product.
The RIAA is dying and it is a death that cannot come soon enough.
Sooner or later a talented and smart musician will utilize the web and digital downloads to reach superstardom and cut the RIAA trappings out of the equation.
That day will be the axe to the neck of the RIAA and it cannot come too soon for the industry.
Two wrongs don't make a right....and when the RIAA pulls this crap, all they do is hurt their cause. This is why ultimately they will lose. This is a desperate act, much like someone who has nothing to lose would do. Their problem is, the RIAA has already lost. They just don't realize it yet. They had a two year window to embrace the new technology; instead they tried to squash it. Problem is, though you can kill a server room full of computers, you can never kill an idea. Every time they win a court battle and out one p2p program offline, three replace it. In fact, the tide is beginning to turn and they're now losing battles in court. Their response now is to break the law themselves, killing any credibility or moal high ground that they ever had. As I said, a true act of desperation on their part.
What utter crap. Of my rather large CD collection, I'd say about 15% was produced by a large record label, and only about half was produced by a label at all. I don't infringe copyrights because the music spewed out by labels is almost completely crap, and the few bright spots I'm more than willing to pay for.
I get most of my CDs by going to shows and getting them (usually for free) from bands I like, or downloading the tunes from their websites.
Ever heard of marketing? Mailing lists? Salesmanship? Good old-fashioned pressing the flesh? I know lots of bands that do that to get people interested in their work. Oh wait... you mean you want musicians not to have to work at it?
Hello! Earth to Eminor! The music being spit out ALREADY lacks credibility. The quality ALREADY is no good. In fact, the only decent music I can find with a very few exceptions comes from people that RIAA members wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.
Hey, if you feel you need some suit to decide what music you should choose from, go for it. But don't act like they're doing the rest of us a favor, OK?
All's true that is mistrusted