The Fall Of Max Payne Announced

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing out Rockstar Games have announced Max Payne 2: The Fall Of Max Payne, the sequel to the third-person action title from Remedy Entertainment. The press release indicates the game will ship for PC this fall, but doesn't mention when the console versions will come out. This follows last year's announcement that 3D Realms/Apogee and Remedy had sold the intellectual property for Max Payne to Rockstar for around 35 million dollars in cash and shares, for those wondering which bottomless pit Duke Nukem Forever's development budget is coming from.

Comments

Out of the ashes a phoenix rises

[Drakon]

Out of the ashes of Max Paine, hopefully we will see a beautiful phoenix in the form of Duke Nukem

I think the odds against this are staggering, since a game with 5 years of development is going to have higher expectations than anything up to but excluding Master of Orion 3.

Re:Out of the ashes a phoenix rises

[Anonymous Coward]

DNF will have to make current FPS's look like Wolfenstein in order to call it's development a success...

Re:Out of the ashes a phoenix rises

[Lao-Tzu]

I think the odds against this are staggering, since a game with 5 years of development is going to have higher expectations than anything up to but excluding Master of Orion 3.

Why did you have to bring up the painful memory of that horrendous failure of a computer game? I drove across the city at way illegal speeds to pick it up the second I found out a copy had hit the shelves. My disappointment still makes me growl at the box sitting on my shelf. I hate you. I hate all of you. Especially you, MOO3! I'll kill you! Gaaarg!

Excellent.

[Nathan Ramella]

Rockstar is quickly getting to the point I was with Aphex Twin about 5 years ago. I'd buy anything he did no matter what the quality was. However, Rockstar has got to keep up the momentum so that they don't enter their 'Druqs' and '26 mixes for cash' phase... 'State of Emergency' was kind of sluffy.

Big deal

[jvmatthe]

Max Payne was hacky story and one gameplay gimmick (bullet time). Sure, bullet time was fun to do the first three dozen times I used it. But only the most die-hard FPS fans can stand level after level of pedestrian design and endless shooting. When I ended up in a warehouse full of crates...CRATES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD...I knew I'd reached my limit.

To make it worse, the voice acting and writing were awful. It was as if they wanted to sound like a modern Raymond Chandler, but weren't clever enough to know a stupid metaphor if it came running at them screaming like a scaly, hot demon from hell and bit them in the icy, cold ass of writing skills. It's just wrong to subject gamers to tired level design *and* bad writing. The hammy acting didn't help, of course.

Ok, I'll stop there. Max Payne 2...big deal. More complaining here and here.

Re:Big deal

[Dot.Com.CEO]

You know, I quite enjoyed the game. I thought that, at points, it got ridiculously hard and it overplayed that bullet time gimmic to the point that you had to play the game in slow motion to get anywhere. I thought the best parts of MP were the cut-scenes and voice acting. Yes, they were over the top but they really appropriate to the story. The dream sequences, on the other hand, were some of the worst gaming experiences I can describe, and I've seen them all. As to the werehouse, well, ok, what did you expect to find in a warehouse? Crates are appropriate.

Since you plug your site, I'll bite and give you my two cents. Why oh why do you focus on the negative aspects of everything you review? I mean, I understand the point of your site, but, frankly, after reading your comments on Ape Escape, Zelda and Max Payne, I am beginning to wonder if there is any game you do enjoy. Not meaning to offend there, just think you are far too unforgiving and that your levels are too high for what is, essentially, entertainment.

Re:Big deal

[jvmatthe]

Since you plug your site, I'll bite and give you my two cents. Why oh why do you focus on the negative aspects of everything you review? I mean, I understand the point of your site, but, frankly, after reading your comments on Ape Escape, Zelda and Max Payne, I am beginning to wonder if there is any game you do enjoy.

Simple, really. There is far too much positive, childish, gushing praise for games already.

Since you now understand the tone of the site, you should read the writing there in that context. Just like when I read IGN or GameSpot...they give a game an 8.5, then I'm thinking to myself "Hm, good chance that that's an inflated score." See, for example, Tony Hawk 3 which got a 10 out of 10 on Gamespot. (As a counter argument, you could point out Ico, which earned an 8.5, a score that's far too low, really. See my Ico review for the biggest example of positive, childish, gushing praise on Curmudgeon.) So, knowing that we're going into a game with a critical eye, you should take that approach into account.

Besides, look at the positive comments that are in some of those reviews you point out. Ape Escape is most inventive platformer I've seen and I characterize it as "fun" and "cute". Does that mean it doesn't have flaws or that I should ignore them? No. Was I disappointed with the approach they took in the end to ramp up the difficulty? Yes. Shouldn't I mention that? Of course.

Same goes for Zelda, which makes me forget that I'm playing a game because it's so cleanly rendered. I also enjoyed the three main characters (Link, Aryll, Tetra) a good bit, and said so. In my update (forthcoming) I'll probably ramble on a good bit about just how Link is probably the cutest, most expressive character I've ever met in a game. Should I just forget the technical failings of the game, just because I like other parts? No, I shouldn't, and I won't. They're there just like the positive bits.

Finally, I can't think of anything redeeming to say about Max Payne other than "bullet time was fun". Sorry, but I feel it was a failure for a game, and enjoyed success simply because most people have low standards for story telling and FPS games.

Re:Big deal

[Trurl's Machine]

To make it worse, the voice acting and writing were awful.

If I remember correctly, those cheap bastards "hired" for free their friends and relatives as unpaid actors. The mean b**ch who is on top of the whole conspiracy in the game is a mother of one of the authors, and aptly named Alfred Wooden is someone's father. Indeed, their acting is both mean and wooden. If this won't be improved in MP2, guys won't see my hard-earned money.

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you really didn't "get it", did you? The whole POINT of Max Payne is that it was over-the top, a parody of the old gum-shoe detective film noir stuff. It was hilarious! That you can't tell bad writing, from good parody is indicative that I shouldn't give the rest of your review comments much weight.

Re:Big deal

[jvmatthe]

Really, you've got a good point. I just couldn't stop laughing during the part where his wife and baby child were murdered. HAHAHAHHA. That was a good one. Blood everywhere. It was awesome. Then later during the bloody maze with the baby crying the whole time? INCREDIBLY FUNNY.

If that's parody, my friend, then you've got some serious issues.

Re:Big deal

[Prior Restraint]

I wouldn't have said anything, but you mentioned it twice, so I feel compelled to speak: Technically speaking, Max Payne isn't first-person; it's more of an over-the-shoulder game.

I'll agree with a lot of what you said about the game's shortcomings, but I chose to perceive a couple of them as a plus, in a kitsch-y sort of way. The mainstream is so full of sad attempts at noir these days, I can't help but be amused at a game that does it so badly. I choose to believe they're being deliberately tongue-in-cheek, because the alternative makes me want to cry.

Re:Big deal

[Prior Restraint]

If that's parody, my friend, then you've got some serious issues.

I think "satire" would be a more appropriate word choice. Series 7 is a wonderful satire, but it's filled with all sorts of disturbing imagery.

Re:Big deal

[jvmatthe]

So I checked out some interviews with some folks involved in Max Payne and I have yet to find anyone talk about the story in anything but serious terms. I really am not convinced that it was satire. I believe they truly thought they were writing a good story and good dialogue.

I will, however, stay open to concrete evidence to the contrary. (By which I mean someone involved with the game backing up this claim that it's satire or parody.)

Re:Big deal

[abhisarda]

Max Payne was the first fps game I ever played seriously. Did I enjoy it? A RESOUNDING YES !
I have only played one more fps game to the finish- Serious Sam 2 and it was just a mindless orgy of monsters raining down upon you.

After playing Serious Sam, I am very biased towards the human form. Monsters are actually very easy to integrate. Why are monsters monsters? Because they are evil. So? They have to be destroyed. It takes much more thought and finesse to use humans as enemies and weave a compelling story around it. Max Payne actually has a very nice story to it. The cut off scenes are interesting and make for good interludes.

I have 7 new fps games that I want to play over the next few months and the benchmark I will use is Max Payne. I also played part of Medal of Honor but lost interest and did not complete the game. Right now I am playing Half-life but it is because I appreciate its mod- Counter-Strike so much.
Games like Max Payne actually highlight how good a fps game can be, unlike your views that it is of low standard.

I am surely going to play the next Max Payne if a get a new laptop with a good video card.

Re:Big deal

[Prior Restraint]

Well, I can't go so far as to claim that it was supposed to be satire. But I, for one, can't take it seriously.

I suppose one could make the argument that there's been so much bad noir in the past several years that the game designers think that's the way noir ought to be. I sincerely hope they aren't that clueless, though.

Re:Big deal

[Telastyn]

Good. I'm certainly glad at least someone remembers that critics are supposed to be, well, critical...

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

I see, You're a black and white thinker, who can't handle something that doesn't fit neatly and completely into one single, well labeled category.

Much of the verbate was hilarious satire and send-up. Other parts were disturbing and stressful.

It was a great game, brilliantly conceived and executed. It's only flaw is that it lacks any real "replay value". But the first time through is amazing.

You, however, are a narrow-minded, closed minded moron who cannot seem to fathom the game and therefore hates it. It's not the game that was bad, you just didn't "get it".

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

That's "verbage" obviously, not "verbate". Typo. The point remains, much of the voice-over was so over-the-top, you can't possibly believe it was "bad writing". It was brilliant parody of bad film noir. It was *good* and very imaginative writing.

Re:Big deal

[jvmatthe]

Look, it's a crappy game. That's opinion. You can't bloody argue with it. You liked it. Similarly, opinion, and I'm not arguing with that. But whether the game took itself seriously or not, that's not an opinion.

To that end, see my challenge elsewhere in this thread. Find any interview or article which involves the creators of this game in which they talk about the writing as anything but serious terms. Several interviews talk about how "great" the story is and how much they worked on the story to tell a gritty story. At no point do they indicate that they're doing satire. Read around a bit and you'll start to see that it's funny only because it's poorly done, despite being a serious attempt.

I'm ending this transmission until you get a real account. Anonymous Coward for sure.

Re:Big deal

[Kynde]

Why oh why do you focus on the negative aspects of everything you review? I mean, I understand the point of your site, but, frankly, after reading your comments on Ape Escape, Zelda and Max Payne, I am beginning to wonder if there is any game you do enjoy.

I agree with what you say about Max Payne, but I must admit that I rather read such criticism inspite of it not being all that fair. I mean, if I hear someone praising the things I find interesting yet getting stuck mocking some aspects I couldn't care less about (e.g. decorations of a warehouse) I'm really not bothered. Then again hearing someone give full points for some flashing dandy visually appealing and on the only mentions that the playability and feel is not that good, I will steer clear from that...

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe you, or anyone, would take some of that stuff seriously. Man, do you really reach for reasons to hate something, or what? It was hilarious and I thought it was brilliantly done. You want to call it bad writing, you go ahead, but you're flat out wrong. Opinions CAN be wrong, you know, and yours is proof of that.

bad name

[Joe the Lesser]

It should either have just been called Fall of Max Payne or Max Payne II: The Downfall. The redundancy looks horrible...

Re:bad name

[Tibor the Hun]

it could have been worse.. what if there was a crossover between max payne and x-men?

max payne2: the fall of max payne unites the xmen2: xmen united!

I hope they keep the Paynefull noir writing

[saladpuncher]

It was raining pitchforks and cats the night I learned that Max Payne 2 was being developed. Outside the wind was howling to beat the banshee, a rising crescendo of tortured screaming like the kind that came from me when I found out that Duke Nukem Forever was delayed again. I smoked my cigarette (my "last one" I told myself) and loaded up slashdot. If Rockstar Games wants to bring the Payne then bring it on.

Re:I hope they keep the Paynefull noir writing

[Anonymous Coward]

lmao

Why the useless commentary?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gah, I hate it when a /. editor has to talk out of his ass and make some cutting remark about a suject they have no clue about. Just because the IP rights were sold, doesn't automatically mean that all the money goes straight in the Duke coffers. Depending on how the IP rights were originally held, some of that money could go to Remedy.

Problem is that since Apogee/3DRealms is a privately held company, there really is no way to see where the money is going. But here's the thing... who friggin' cares about Duke? It has absolutely nothing to do with the story which is making a sequel for Max Payne. Just leave it at that.

Play it again for the first time

[Darthnice]

Do yourself a favor and download the mod Max Payne: Kung Fu Edition. It's a whole new game experience. The story is the same, no changes there, but the gameplay takes on a great new flavor. While I doubt you could really finish the game without firing a shot, I sure did feel like I had cheated when I had to lower myself to using a gun.

If only Oni had been this much fun...

Re:Play it again for the first time

[The Evil Couch]

well, considering how you have to stop Horne from escaping, no you can't finish the game without firing a shot. I however, agree that the Kung Fu Edition V3.00 is bar none, the best mod for Max Payne and I though it was fucking amazing

in case you're wondering about my comment about the bit about the insane action move with the shotgun, it's an exploit in the code I found where if you're holding a two-handed firearm that has good knockback (jackhammer is preferred here) you can shoot someone, slamming them into the wall and then follow up fast with a take-down, do the takedown and finish them with another shotgun blast.

Zing! Got me.

[jvmatthe]

Technically speaking, Max Payne isn't first-person; it's more of an over-the-shoulder game.

You got me there. Mea culpa. Now, if only we could edit Slashdot posts... :^) It's in the same family as FPS games, but it's perspective does make it a different style.

Thanks for correcting me.

If only had they used Benny Hill music...

[Milktoast]

I have to back up curmudgeon on this one. The Max Payne developers made this a serious attempt at noir and not a parody. This isn't NOLF!

Look at the box art, I think what we have with Max Payne is an attempt to churn out noir from developers who speak English as a Second Language. Which is why they didn't think twice of putting dialogue like this out:Outside, the mercury was falling fast. It was colder than the devil's heart, raining ice pitchforks as if the heavens were ready to fall.

Start reading Edge

[roesti]

There is far too much positive, childish, gushing praise for games already.

Absolutely. If you read a gaming site, lots of games get good scores without being good games. Sometimes it's because the graphics are good, and sometimes it's just cool; but it's never got anything to do with the writers knowing anything about what makes a game good.

Here in Australia, we have one major multi-platform gaming magazine called Hyper, which is famous for giving every half-decent game a score of at least 80% and every other bad game 70%. Admittedly, they're not as bad as GameSpot and IGN about it, but really, how much use is that?

The only magazine I buy regularly for games is a British mag called Edge. As well as interesting articles, Edge has a review system that's just right: average games get a 5 out of 10, bad games get a 4, good games get a 6, and getting an 8 is a serious challenge.

I don't know of any other magazine that's not afraid to tell you that the game that you and your friends are all gushing about is actually a dog. Max Payne, Final Fantasy X (funniest Edge review ever), Return To Castle Wolfenstein and Morrowind - 90%+ games, according to other reviews and inevitable word of mouth - all got 6/10. (You can actually search for review scores here.

As for the parent post, I wholeheartedly agree that the negative aspects of a game can be just as important as the positive aspects. I might not agree with everything you say, but I can value your opinion a lot more if you can discuss it openly, if you're just as ready to gush over what you really like as you are to speak your mind about what you don't. Keep up the good work.

Of course it's redundant...

[roesti]

The redundancy in the name justs maintains the redundancy of the game.

Bullet time, quick save, bullet time, quick save, bullet time, game over, quick load, bullet time, quick save...

Just wait for Max Payne Revival: The Revival Of Max Payne 2: The Fall Of Max Payne - slotted for a release next Christmas.

Moderators on crack

[jvalenzu]

How is the parent a troll? Just for saying Max Payne is a POS? 10 hours of game play and "bullet time" isn't innovation.