Posted by
michael
on from the tastes-great-less-filling dept.
Logic writes "The Oggbitstream format (used by OggVorbis) has been enshrined in RFC 3533, "The Ogg Encapsulation Format Version 0", for all you folks who won't look at something unless it has an RFC attached to it."
On a side note, there has also been a second RFC (RFC 3534) published regarding the application/ogg media type.
Isn't an RFC a request for comment?
by
unixwin
·
· Score: 4, Informative
If so, what can one comment on the Ogg stream if its already well defined?
I thought RFC's were proposals for eliciting peer comments/reviews??
-- -- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
Re:Isn't an RFC a request for comment?
by
OverlordQ
·
· Score: 4, Informative
When the RFCs were first produced, they had an almost 19th century
character to them - letters exchanged in public debating the merits
of various design choices for protocols in the ARPANET. As email and
bulletin boards emerged from the fertile fabric of the network, the
far-flung participants in this historic dialog began to make
increasing use of the online medium to carry out the discussion -
reducing the need for documenting the debate in the RFCs and, in some
respects, leaving historians somewhat impoverished in the process.
RFCs slowly became conclusions rather than debates.
Re:Can't wait for
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Anybody considering this should note that RFC1149 has been superceded by RFC2549, countering data loss to hawks and the like.
Remember what an RFC is
by
bigberk
·
· Score: 5, Informative
An RFC is a "Request For Comment", a technical specification document put forward by anybody. As wikipedia puts it, "Few RFCs are standards but all Internet standards are recorded in RFCs."
So what am I getting at is, realize that this hasn't been adopted as some Internet standard overnight. But it's very positive for the project to have such a well defined standards document in a familiar format!
Re:Remember what an RFC is
by
shaitand
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Nope, is Request for Comment, started in the days when letters were passed around before email and other electronic forms of communication came into existance. Now an RFC is a generally a final definition rather than an introduction.
Re:Hopefully
by
millette
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Actually, Tremor, the integer codec, took care of that over a ago according to the changelog. And it's released under a bsd-like license.
Re:Hopefully
by
bobm17ch
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I`m afraid this won`t affect player support much.
The device (pc/mp3player/whatever) still has to support the vorbis audio codec within the ogg wrapper.
Think of ogg as a bag of revels. The bag is standardised and easy to manipulate, but you just don`t know what you`re gonna get inside. Or even if you are gonna be able to handle it:) [1]
[1] I can`t decode the orange revels. My codec empties the contents of the buffer through the I/O.:p
--
\\ Mitch
Re:Hopefully
by
millette
·
· Score: 2, Informative
That casts a shadow over my previous response... I'm never careful enough separating ogg and vorbis; like tcp and ip, really.
Re:Now if only it had a decent name
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Funny you should bring this up... It's amazing how much more quality you can squeeze out of your EXISTING MP3 collection just by getting some better audio hardware. Before anyone starts taking my advice too far and goes to their local "overpriced audiophile extreme" store, here's how you can get GOOD sound INEXPENSIVELY:
* Get a good sound card. As a general rule, onboard audio stinks. The Audigy is popular - I personally don't like the way it sounds, so YMMV. Try the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz [epinions.com].
* Good speakers can be expensive. Good headphones aren't. Next time RadioShack has the Pro 35's [epinions.com] on sale, pick up a pair for $19.
* Try a few different MP3 players - quality varies. If you're a Windows user, don't waste your time with players that are basically just DirectShow front-ends, they'll ALL sound the same.
Re:Now if only it had a decent name
by
be-fan
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Well, technically, the codec is Vorbis, which is a pretty cool name, if you ask me.
-- A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
EAC will work fine with Ogg, just download the encoder and point EAC to it. Alternately, you can use CDex or any number of other programs.
-- It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Ogg or OGG?
by
.com+b4+.storm
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Why do the RFC page headers say "OGG" instead of "Ogg"? The headers in other RFCs aren't arbitrarily capitalized. It's hard enough convincing people that Ogg isn't an acronym without the RFC itself making our work harder.
Can they fix this without issuing a new RFC number?
4) How can I correct an error in a published RFC? You cannot! Once an RFC is published, it cannot be changed.
[...] For both technical and editorial errors, the RFC Editor provides a list of errata for published RFCs. This page contains a list of errors that have been reported to the RFC Editor.
-- "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
Actually, Tremor, the integer codec, took care of that over a ago according to the changelog. And it's released under a bsd-like license.
Unfortunately Tremor isn't a one-size-fits-all. It's got nasty things like dynamic memory allocation all over the shop and still a rather large memory overhead. Actually, to be 100% compliant with the Vorbis 1.0 spec it's rather difficult to turn out a fast and small implementation (I've been trying).
At the moment I'm working on getting my own implementation working with an extremely small RAM overhead. It's by no means trivial getting it working on the DSPs you find in most MP3 players, and almost none of the source code to Tremor could be successfully ported to them either. I don't expect any of the source code I'm writing for my own implementation to be used as anything but a reference for writing a version to run on DSPs.
Of course, it would have been much more difficult even starting to write my own implementation were it not for freely available specs.
Re:Status of Ogg FLAC ?
by
Hatta
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Ogg FLAC works. Just use the --ogg flag to flac. What I can't figure out is why you'd want to.
-- Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Hopefully
by
i_am_nitrogen
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Grip is absolutely the most awesome separate ripper I've ever used. It has database lookup, support for lame/bladeenc/oggenc and I think a few others, fully customizable file naming/directory structure, and the UI is actually pretty decent (once you get used to the "tabs-within-tabs" stuff that one of my former coworkers would always get really peeved about).
I'm not aware of any jukebox-like software for Linux, but with grip it's less necessary, as it sorts rips by album and artist if you want it to.
[RFC3533] The Ogg Encapsulation Format Version 0, Silvia Pfeiffer, May 2003.
[RFC3534] The application/ogg Media Type, Linus Walleij, May 2003.
Re:Status of Ogg FLAC ?
by
Hatta
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Ogg FLAC is apparently just a raw flac file imbedded in an Ogg package. Ogg123 will not play Ogg FLACs. I 3 FLAC and I 3 Ogg, but I dont know what extra functionality Ogg FLAC provides.
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This is great, well done to all the xiph guys. Remember to show your support by tax-deductibly donating.
If so, what can one comment on the Ogg stream if its already well defined?
I thought RFC's were proposals for eliciting peer comments/reviews??
-- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
Anybody considering this should note that RFC1149 has been superceded by RFC2549, countering data loss to hawks and the like.
An RFC is a "Request For Comment", a technical specification document put forward by anybody. As wikipedia puts it, "Few RFCs are standards but all Internet standards are recorded in RFCs."
So what am I getting at is, realize that this hasn't been adopted as some Internet standard overnight. But it's very positive for the project to have such a well defined standards document in a familiar format!
Actually, Tremor, the integer codec, took care of that over a ago according to the changelog. And it's released under a bsd-like license.
I`m afraid this won`t affect player support much. The device (pc/mp3player/whatever) still has to support the vorbis audio codec within the ogg wrapper. Think of ogg as a bag of revels. The bag is standardised and easy to manipulate, but you just don`t know what you`re gonna get inside. Or even if you are gonna be able to handle it :) [1]
[1] I can`t decode the orange revels. My codec empties the contents of the buffer through the I/O. :p
\\ Mitch
That casts a shadow over my previous response... I'm never careful enough separating ogg and vorbis; like tcp and ip, really.
As you wish. CDex has native CD->Ogg ripping support.
http://www.cdex.n3.net
Funny you should bring this up... It's amazing how much more quality you can squeeze out of your EXISTING MP3 collection just by getting some better audio hardware. Before anyone starts taking my advice too far and goes to their local "overpriced audiophile extreme" store, here's how you can get GOOD sound INEXPENSIVELY:
* Get a good sound card. As a general rule, onboard audio stinks. The Audigy is popular - I personally don't like the way it sounds, so YMMV. Try the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz [epinions.com].
* Good speakers can be expensive. Good headphones aren't. Next time RadioShack has the Pro 35's [epinions.com] on sale, pick up a pair for $19.
* Try a few different MP3 players - quality varies. If you're a Windows user, don't waste your time with players that are basically just DirectShow front-ends, they'll ALL sound the same.
Well, technically, the codec is Vorbis, which is a pretty cool name, if you ask me.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
It almost sounds like that you are suggesting that Winamp doesn't support ogg vorbis. It does.
For the love of $Deity, it's Ogg !! Not OGG, Ogg! Capital O, small g, small g!
The name origins are explained here.
EAC will work fine with Ogg, just download the encoder and point EAC to it. Alternately, you can use CDex or any number of other programs.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Why do the RFC page headers say "OGG" instead of "Ogg"? The headers in other RFCs aren't arbitrarily capitalized. It's hard enough convincing people that Ogg isn't an acronym without the RFC itself making our work harder.
Can they fix this without issuing a new RFC number?
To quote the RFC FAQ:
"Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
Unfortunately Tremor isn't a one-size-fits-all. It's got nasty things like dynamic memory allocation all over the shop and still a rather large memory overhead. Actually, to be 100% compliant with the Vorbis 1.0 spec it's rather difficult to turn out a fast and small implementation (I've been trying).
At the moment I'm working on getting my own implementation working with an extremely small RAM overhead. It's by no means trivial getting it working on the DSPs you find in most MP3 players, and almost none of the source code to Tremor could be successfully ported to them either. I don't expect any of the source code I'm writing for my own implementation to be used as anything but a reference for writing a version to run on DSPs.
Of course, it would have been much more difficult even starting to write my own implementation were it not for freely available specs.
Ogg FLAC works. Just use the --ogg flag to flac. What I can't figure out is why you'd want to.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Grip is absolutely the most awesome separate ripper I've ever used. It has database lookup, support for lame/bladeenc/oggenc and I think a few others, fully customizable file naming/directory structure, and the UI is actually pretty decent (once you get used to the "tabs-within-tabs" stuff that one of my former coworkers would always get really peeved about).
I'm not aware of any jukebox-like software for Linux, but with grip it's less necessary, as it sorts rips by album and artist if you want it to.
A solution to the problem with music today
[RFC3533] The Ogg Encapsulation Format Version 0, Silvia Pfeiffer, May 2003.
[RFC3534] The application/ogg Media Type, Linus Walleij, May 2003.
Ogg FLAC is apparently just a raw flac file imbedded in an Ogg package. Ogg123 will not play Ogg FLACs. I 3 FLAC and I 3 Ogg, but I dont know what extra functionality Ogg FLAC provides.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!