Korea Fighting Pseudonyms on the 'Net

ThreeDayMonk writes "According to the Chosun Ilbo, Korean net firms, pushed by the government, are moving to require message board users to use their real names: 'The current regulation that requires those who post messages on government and public organizations' web sites to use their real names is likely to be expanded soon to private portal sites.' The Japanese version of the page has more information. Apparently, citizen ID numbers will be used to verify identity."

Comments

NO!

[mrpuffypants]

But Mr. Puffy Pants IS my real name!

Almost always been like this

[Alex_Ionescu]

I'm not Korean but I have many friends that are...and whenever I had to signup for as little as gaming sites to play online games with them, I was always required to input a "Korean Registration Number", which is basically a citizen ID. Even if I had nicknames, they could always trace it back to the ID. However, the ID mechanism is pretty well known, and I was able to create a random generator, which is why I guess they now want real names.

Re:Almost always been like this

[djupedal]

I'm an American (male) liveing/working in Korea, and naturally I have an ID here, similar to an US SSN. ID numbers for foreignors have always been distinct from the locals.

When World Cup Soccer came around, the Korean Govt. decided to change the ID string format so they could weed out anyone already in the country that was not following the rules. This resulted in all foreignors having to reregister. The story was that they wanted us to be able to have ID numbers that would work with online activities. The result is a new number, that when decoded, has everyone shown as 'female'....and I still can't use banking sites. And, yes, number generators are common. Give them time...they'll figure it out soon enough. ID theft here is as bad as any other country, BTW.

Re:Almost always been like this

[wljones]

When I worked in Korea thirty years ago I learned a great deal about their laws by buying a home. One of the most important laws concerns the name of the individual. A person can use any name they want, but there must be no attempt to conceal their real name. Movie and TV stars all had stage names, but news items always included their real names, in parentheses and written in Chinese characters, right after their stage name. My real name is difficult for a Korean to pronounce, so I used a Korean name for convenience. To comply with the law I had to use a stamp with my Korean name and my usual American signature on all papers. When written up in the news for a charity contribution once, my Korean name was followed by a phonetic spelling of my American name, all to comply with the law. Some comments to this article show a few changes to the law, but the principle is still the same. Your real name must never be concealed, and it is virtually impossible to have it legally changed. Korean married women do not take their husband's name, but retain their own family name.

sillly

[selderrr]

How are they going to verify that I don't just pick one of pre-posted IDs and us ethat one ?

It always amazes me how stupid government regulations can be. Do these guys even think for a second before pooping out such a law ?

Re:sillly

[selderrr]

The ID you enter isn't displayed on the webpage for the public to see. It is simply logged. Just like Slashdot's logs will have your IP address stored somewhere.

So you mean all korean messageboards are going to run over SSL ? Comeon, most of these boeards store IDs in cookies, unencrypted. Walk into any public room, copy cookie, done.

And besides that : since the ID is apparently something associated with paper passport, who is going to stop kids from writing down dad's passport id ? Or the librarian from writing down mine ? Unless they add a smartcard chip to every passport and plug extra hardware into every internet connected computer, such measures are ridiculous.

Citizen ID Numbers

[GozerBrothers]

"Apparently, citizen ID numbers will be used to verify identity." Sounds like Big Brother to me. Would be effective in stopping SPAM though.

Re:Citizen ID Numbers

[C_nemo]

I dont know about you, but im going to see 'The Last Starfighter' in the theaters then...

Re:Citizen ID Numbers

[cjsnell]

Apparently, citizen ID numbers will be used to verify identity

This isn't all that strange in a country where so many people share a common last name (Kim).

Obvious to many, but...

[mikedaisey]

...the /. story shoul specify which of the two Koreas it is talking about, as quick /. readers who skim (is there another kind?) will believe this could be N. Korea, even though the state of that country's infrastructure makes it a lot more likely that this is S. Korea.

Re:Obvious to many, but...

[mikedaisey]

Anybody who has been reading a lot about how repressive N. Korea is in the news lately, and has no idea how things work in S. Korea.

Re:Obvious to many, but...

[1u3hr]

Of course, that does not mean one shouldn't tell which one of the north and south "part" one mean when on refer to one of them specifically

Well, I assume you would say you came from "America". Though that is rather definitely permanently divided into North and South, "Americans" just assume that only refers to the USA.

But

[Timesprout]

My real name is Anonymous Coward. What does this mean for me ??

Re:But

[kaamos]

I feel sorry if this ever gets to slashdot. Some people would not post their true opinion by fear of being branded a troll of a flamebait. I never want to see that on my passport card :

Name : Anonym Us Corherd
Karma : horrible
Last post : -1, troll
Airport clerk : Sir, we do not accept trolls in out airplanes, we do not like them slobbering up our seats. Please use another agency

Re:But

[evilviper]

That means you would best disgrace your mother and father ("Yellow-Bellied" and "Selfish" respectively) and change your name.

People don't use their real names?

[ambisinistral]

You mean to say Mr. Goatse is hiding behind an alias? I find that hard to believe.

You want my name?

[PetWolverine]

So? I don't mind giving my name out on the Internet. There aren't a whole lot of Abe Thurtells out there, so my name is a unique identifier, but I don't care. There's nothing very dangerous about giving it to people.

My address and phone number I keep a little more guarded, but the one thing I really don't post publicly, anywhere, is my e-mail address. Just let me keep that to myself, and I'm happy.

Well, that and obvious things like my social security number and various bank account numbers and personal identification numbers.

Re:You want my name?

[Rolo Tomasi]

Umm, OK.

Re:You want my name?

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha, nice.

For the sake of completion, here are two photos: Photo 1 Photo 2

FFS, this guy looks like Harry Freakin Potter!

this is a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean look at slashdot. If people were forced to use their real names then I think that trolling would pretty much be eliminated, and there probably wouldn't even be any need for moderation either. Do you think people would hide goatse.cx links if their posts could be easily traced back to them? Would people still sneak in movie spoilers? Maybe one guy would try it, but then someone would show up at his door with a baseball bat the next day.

Also, forcing people to use real names would eliminate some other big problems. Look at the amazon.com book reviews. Book publishers frequently post dozens of positive reviews for their own books to sell more copies. Forcing the usage of real names would mean that this could only be done once per person. And even then, you could do a little background searching to determine that the guy who said "THIS IS THE BEST BOOK EVER" was really the author's brother.

Last and most importantly, this would save usenet. Usenet is becoming unusable today due to stupid spam posters, idiot trolls, and crazy psychos looking to start flame wars. You could argue that there is a real need for anonymity online, but I really disagree. The fact of the matter is that Morpheus dies, the Matrix is destroyed, and Neo is revealed to be a program and not a real human at the end of Matrix Revolutions. So to those that disagree with me, I ask you to consider my position carefully.

Re:this is a good idea

[DASHSL0T]

It also gets rid of dissident political speech quite effectively.

I think that's more important to protect than the benefits of eliminating your Internet Troll.

It is rather amusing that you posted AC. :-)

Re:this is a good idea

[GutBomb]

In face to face conversations you will be held responsible for what you say. why not online? if you want to say something you do not want attached to your name perhaps you shouldn't say it. I am not saying give up your freedom of speech, but if you don't want to be associated with such speech, don't speak it.

Re:this is a good idea

[Arandir]

I wonder. Anonymous political speech is pointless. Think about it. No, I don't necessarily want my address and telephone number listed next to my letter to the editor, but at the same time I'm not going to pay any creedence to a letter that's signed 'anonymous'.

Of course, I live in a country where unpopular political opinions (which do not advocate violence) may get you spit upon, get you fired, and get you audited by the taxman, but which will not get you thrown into prison for the next decade. Where there serious potential for loss of life, limb and liberty for political speech, I might want to be anonymous as well.

Re:this is a good idea

[1u3hr]

In face to face conversations you will be held responsible for what you say. why not online?

Because an online conversation can be dug up later by someone with a grudge against you, any government (not just your government) that takes an interest in you, any employer or prospective employer, and used in a different context to make you look bad. Look for instance at what happens to politicians who "misspeak". It dogs them forever -- who can recall Dan Quayle and not think of "potatoe", or Al Gore "Inventor of the Internet"?

I had a little flame war on a local BBS a few months ago. Then recently a new guy took offence at something I wrote, and he dug up the old flames and republished them. Imagine that in real life. For the rest of your life.

Re:this is a good idea

[Arandir]

uh, again you are proving the point even more.

Yeah I know. But if your political opinion is important enough, then it should be worth some inconveniences, in my opinion. My main point though, was that anonymous political opinion is mere noise. It doesn't mean anything. Write a letter to your congressman on an issue and sign it "JohnFluxx", and it will be completely ignored. I've actually been quoted in articles for a political opinion I posted online under my real name, but never once have I been quoted as "Arandir".

My prediction...

[visualight]

They won't fight this. There may be a couple of loud voices heard for a minute but Koreans are even more sheeplike than Americans. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what but Korea's a country where the entire population can have an opinion that opposes the status quo yet nothing will change.

While no one in Korea will run to the streets protesting, this is the internet and the more courageous Koreans (a minority) will stop posting to message boards that reside in country and start using boards put up by Koreans living in the U.S. and other countries.

Note: I'm an American who has lived in Korea (I speak read and write Korean) and I'm not trying to be "inciteful".

Re:My prediction...

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone who doesn't know anything about history.

The *most* violent and frequent protests in the world occured in South Korea during the hey-day of dictatorship in the 80s. The student protests in Korea were a major reason why Korea is a democracy today.

You can't get protests like that if Koreans were "sheeplike".

How is it that China, with more than 1 billion people, could keep control of a population so big with nary a protest (save the Tibetans monks that were slaughtered)?

If you want a sheeplike country, look towards Canada (of which I am a citizen). The government can do *anything* and Canadians will sit back and say "Well, what can we do? Raise taxes? Okay. Add the GST? Okay. What can we do?"

Re:My prediction...

[visualight]

The *most* violent and frequent protests in the world occured in South Korea during the hey-day of dictatorship in the 80s. The student protests in Korea were a major reason why Korea is a democracy today.

I was there for that. Obviously you weren't.
btw, I did study history, from Chosun to the present day...
Korea is an entire nation. Those large, violent, frequent protests that you saw on TV weren't what you saw on TV. I was there and the prostests were actually pathetically small. Usually it was less than two hundred college students. They just got a lot of coverage in your country. Go one block away from the protest and no one cares, no one is interested.

Re:My prediction...

[oogoliegoogolie]

If you want a sheeplike country, look towards Canada (of which I am a citizen). The government can do *anything* and Canadians will sit back and say "Well, what can we do? Raise taxes? Okay. Add the GST? Okay. What can we do?"

Oh I agree with you. I am a citizen of canada and as much as I hate the naivity, moral superiority, and complacency of Canadians, there is a good reason why it is so; it is called winter, which unless you are in BC we all get 8 months of it! Who the hell wants to protest outside from October to May? And when the four months of summer comes, most people would rather be at the beach, gardening, hiking, golfing, and doing summer stuff than picketing and yelling 'down with this, down with that".

Canada has the higest number of golfers per capita of any nation, so I guess we know were our priorities are.

Re:My prediction...

[enkidu]

You may have lived there, and you may have seen the occasional demonstration. But many of the demonstrations in the late 70's and 80's were HUGE. Entire universities were shut down. An entire city Kwangju was in open rebellion until Chun sent in Korean special forces (resulting in an official tally of about 200 people killed, the real count was probably much higher). I remember coming back from school with my eyes watering because of all of the tear gas in the air from the demostrations 10 km away in downtown Seoul. 200 protesters cannot take over the campuses of 5 major universities simultaneously.

Yes, the entire country wasn't demonstrating, but practically the entire student bodies of many colleges were. 200 people my ass. After Lee, Han-yoel was killed by a tear gas canister, the protests were truly huge and included many non-students. The protests that led to the ouster of Chun, Do-hwan and Roh, Tae-woo involved many tens of thousands of people, with some estimates for the end stage protests approaching 400,000. Do you think the Korean government had 20,000 riot police (probably the best trained in the entire world) assigned to cover down town Seoul to prevent 200 protesters from wrecking havoc?

Bah, just because you only saw tiny demonstrations doesn't prove that large demonstrations never happened in Korea.

Coincidence of what?

[porky_pig_jr]

1. On Internet noone knows you are a dog.
2. Koreans like dog meat.

Make your own conclusion.

what we have here is a failure to authenticate

[Bold Marauder]

I understand that a lot of liberal slashdotters might find the idea of having everyone post under their real name and number intriguing. However, I would caution them to think out the implementation very clearly.

Any ID scheme by definition requires authentication, and therefore security protocols on an ABI layer (assuming we confine this discussion to computers and message boards). Most open source ABIs are well known and showing their age, the hacker community already knows how to circumvent them. The private ABI's don't fare much better.

So, we've established that there is an achilles' heel with regards to authentication--proving that citizen joe really is citizen joe.

Given that, I can see that any currently available implementations would make it far too easy for unathorized users to forge the ids of legitamate productive citizens.

I think that once we have the bandwidth to allow one-way always-on video streaming from the users' computers, then maybe we can re-visit this idea; but right now is just not the time.

Re:what we have here is a failure to authenticate

[bnenning]

I would think that a lot of liberal slashdotters would see this for what it really is.

It depends. I can see communitarian liberals believing we should all live without secrets in a big happy utopia where everyone's lives and views are public and respected (e.g. David Brin's "transparent society"). On the other hand, as an individualist conservative/libertarian with an inherent distrust of government power, I think this is a terrible idea.

Re:what we have here is a failure to authenticate

[RestiffBard]

whoa there cowboy, this liberal thinks the idea is downright horrifying.

Thank God I live in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Korean-American, but thank God I don't live in Korea.

After a little over 10 years from breaking away from a dictatorship, my people *still* don't understand what freedom truly is.

This is exactly what the founding fathers were doing when they made sure that freedom of speech became a pillar of what made this country. That is what makes this country so great. (Yes, there were a few hiccups, but at least today we can protest against the government and not fear being killed).

What if you wanted to write something against the Korean government? How can you reasonably expect to protest if you didn't have the right to anonymously post your comments? By forcing people to add identification to their posts, the government is trying to break up any attempts for people to anonymous organize for whatever reason.

It sucks, and this is why Korea, or any Asian country will never be a first class country. They don't understand truly what freedom is, and they don't respect the right for people to dislike or even hate you.

Re:Thank God I live in the US

[edgrale]

This is exactly what the founding fathers were doing when they made sure that freedom of speech became a pillar of what made this country. That is what makes this country so great. (Yes, there were a few hiccups, but at least today we can protest against the government and not fear being killed).

True, but instead you're labled unpatriotic if you protest against the Government. Or if it is a nother country that does not agree to what you are doing they are almost considered your enemy and might get some sort of import restrictions imposed.

Ain't the US version of Democracy just great!

ps. I know you're a (Corporate) Republic...

Ragnarok Online

[Josuah]

The MMORPG Ragnarok Online uses the Korean citizen ID to keep track of who is who, make people accountable for their actions (e.g. cheating), and also to prove ownership of accounts in the event you need them to do something like tell you your password. For this reason, some of those administrative things are not possible/enforceable on the International server.

What this does do is make the punishment for cheating much more severe--you can't simply establish a new account and start cheating again. But it also means Gravity might punish you when you don't think you deserve it, and in a fairly damaging way as far as the online game experience goes. Unfortunately, Gravity has a somewhat totalitarian stance on things: Regulations. I know people have been punished for complaining on the message boards (which are tied to your user account). Some of those regulations are very annoying to abide by due to the game dynamics, e.g. looting and kill-stealing. Others are extremely open to interpretation. I remember having to constantly watch my mouth because I wasn't sure who I would offend by an offhand comment.

Big Brother is watching. And you will learn to like it.

High irony

[Bold Marauder]

The thousands of slashbots babbling something about "anonymity not being a part of freedom".

Ironic, a post from an AC condemning slashdotters penchant for advocating privacy rights.

The right to privacy IS a fundamental function of a free society, along with the right to peaceably assemble, the freedom to speak your mind and the free press.

I have to question the patriotism--or location-- of someone who would actively condemn us for that.

Unless they're posting AC; in which case they're probably simply going for -1 troll anyways. ;)

you know

[SweetAndSourJesus]

slashdot yro pages should just say "yes, just like 1984" across the top in giant letters so that people like you don't have to point it out.

Re:This is what happens...

[cm4rx]

im going to play devils advocate on this and ask you this question: why is it that asking people to give their real name before posting something is against free speech ? think about it. maybe a society where no one has to hide behind pseudonyms to speak their mind is more "pro-free-speech" than one where people feel the need not to compromise themselves or something by saying their opinion.

Ironically this was posted by an AC

[eberry]

Ironically this was posted by an AC.

Bad ideas that people like are the worst kind.

[Anonymous Coward]

For all you idiots who'd like to see this measure universally applied, I've got two words for you: Salam Pax. You think he'd have been posting if the only way to do it was with his government ID# attached?

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, and I'm pretty sure enough of the trolls and spammers would find ways to keep going that we wouldn't miss them.

Re:This is what happens...

[g4dget]

why is it that asking people to give their real name before posting something is against free speech ?

Because, apart from governmental repercussions, there is peer pressure and societal disapproval for unpopular speech. If you force people to use their real names, you will get much less disagreement. Which is, of course, just what repressive governments like.

think about it. maybe a society where no one has to hide behind pseudonyms to speak their mind is more "pro-free-speech" than one where people feel the need not to compromise themselves or something by saying their opinion.

People have thought about this for a couple of thousand years. Many great works of literature, social criticism, reportage, and political science have been published under pseudonyms. Pseudonyms are essential for free speech.

If you want to get rid of the need for pseudonyms, you have to change human nature (peer pressure, retaliation, flaming, all that) first. Good luck.

wrong answer.

[pair-a-noyd]

And so ends free speech.

People use pseudonyms so that they can speak freely. So they post something that some nutcase doesn't like, then the nutcase hunts that person down and whacks them.

Or people want to speak out against the government. Which seem to be what the government there wants to put an end to..

Fear the government that fears you..
When the government restricts your right to speak freely on any subject, no matter who it may offend, it is time to abolish that government....

Re:wrong answer.

[brooks_talley]

And so ends free speech.

Er, Koreans aren't familiar with the concept of free speech. And there's certainly no constitutional guarantee of it. Hard to end something that never started.

Cheers
-b

Extremely dangerous power vacuum

[SuperBanana]

No offense to any Koreans that are loyal, but you really ought to consider a coup.

At the slightest sign of a power vacuum or confusion, ol' Puffy Hair would push over the US and South Korean border guards like matchsticks, and tapdance all the(-very- short) way to the South Korean capitol, for his own version of 'reunification'. Resource-starved countries with huge militaries, time has proven over and over, are extremely dangerous.

North Korea is so far into the dark ages, and Kim is so mentally deranged and desperate(the whole "I'VE GOT NUCLEAR WEAPONS, REALLY, I DO!" isn't working so hot for him), that at this point, he'd do anything and everything to get the resources and land South Korea has. It would, without a doubt, start World War III- that country is so armed to the teeth, and its people so completely, totally brainwashed...coalition soldiers would be fighting every man, woman and child strong enough to pick up a shovel or pitchfork. Kim is no Saddam- his people have been completely brainwashed into loving him. It would be a slaughter on both sides.

So, yeah, I think starting a coup in SK would be a really, really, really stupid idea.

Personal liberty and the right to vehemently question one's leadership shouldn't be questioned, regardless of what type of place you live in. If where you live thinks the idea of free speech is "wrong" then you live int he wrong place or the leaders are fucktards.

What are you, Wesley Crusher, with a fresh mouth?

Does this imply online opinion polls could work ?

[OneInEveryCrowd]

The article was short on implementation details but let me hypothesize a bit. Imagine if the law was changed to require Koreans (or others) to sign on to their isp in a fashion that positively verified their identify. Now imagine that this system is normally about 99 percent effective (yeah right). Doesn't this correct the reasons that online opinion polling is assumed to not work ? Couldn't this (hypothetically folks) allow a polling system to restrict votes to one per person, and allow any user entered profile data (with the users permission) to be verified ?

I realize there are many ways a positive id system could be abused, but if online opinion polling could be made accurate and easy to implement, some govts might wind up getting more than they'd bargained for.

Some Major Issues

[Psx29]

In the best case scenario, all I could see happening from this is a huge exchange in names and numbers over something like IRC and this would invalidate whatever information the government thinks they can gain by this. In the worst case scenario, people would seriously have their lives f*cked because the government would actually believe that all the information it sees is true.

omg too good to be true

[Flunitrazepam]

they should be forced to have a real picture of themselves too so i wont ever be tricked into cybering with a horny old pervert... again

Re:omg too good to be true

[kingkade]

you know you enjoyed it as much as i did, sweetheart. so.....what are you wearing?

How's this for a conspiracy theory?

[NetDanzr]

In the Internet heydays, I was covering Internet companies as an investment analyst (a much more fun job, considering the companies I need to cover now). Anyway, even then, some Internet advertisers, retailers and service companies were complaining about people using fake names and name spoofing. Ever since then, they were quietly pushing for regulations which would allow them to sue users that don't use their real names (I can only guess the reason, but I think it's got something to do with customer habits and data collection).

This may be partially the argument in Korea as well, even though it still dowsn't apply to outlawing nicknames on private message boards. However, considering the traditional need for a strong centralized government in Asian countries, at the cost of individual rights, it's just natural that Korea would be among the first to implement this. I'm wondering whether Singapore, the most authoritarian of these countries, didn't pass similar laws already...

Re:Does this imply online opinion polls could work

[bnenning]

Doesn't this correct the reasons that online opinion polling is assumed to not work ?

No, because it's still a self-selected sample group.

Re:This is what happens...

[Selanit]

Personal liberty and the right to vehemently question one's leadership shouldn't be questioned . . .

Sooo . . . I should be allowed to ask about anything as long as I don't ask whether I should be allowed to ask? Phzzt . . . whoops, hold on a sec, my hippocampus is overheating.

Seriously though. I think what you're trying to say is that people should never be punished for asking questions. That I can agree with.

I think you're also trying to say that personal liberty is a value so fundamental that it would be foolish even to ask whether it might be a good idea to limit it in some cases. And that I do not agree with; there are plenty of cases where individual liberty is at odds with the interests of other individuals or those of society. As the old saw goes, "Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose." In the absence of any restraint on personal liberty, you have chaos; suppose I choose to exercise my personal liberty by murdering random strangers on the street? If you try to stop me, you are abrogating my liberty.

Establishing a good balance between personal liberty and the interests of others is an ongoing process, and questioning the premises on which the current balance is based is vital maintenance.

This Korean proposal is a perfect example. The government says "We should do this," and people say "Why?" and then you have a debate which hopefully ends up in a course of action acceptable to the interested parties. It's when that process is derailed that bad things start happening: when the government says "It's going to be this way" and pays no attention to the citizenry, the chances that the resulting legislation will be narrow, self-serving crap rise dramatically.

For that reason, we should always be allowed to question every facet of our political systems, without exception.

No wonder, especially in Korea...

[yanestra]

I mean, in a country where 17% of all people are named Kim, you would have to add date and place of birth to make it a unique ID.

And, after all, a number like 526590 is much easier to remember...

Re:Does this imply online opinion polls could work

[LauraScudder]

It still doesn't work cause, yeah, it's self-selected (e.g. only the people who care enough about the poll decide to vote in it) and because the population profile of the internet does not equal the profile of the population as a whole (because you have an internet connection I can immediately tell you that its more likely that you come from middle class or above and have at least a high school education, with a high probability of college, too, etc.)

Korea's Stance: Pseudonyms No, Spam Yes

[Nova Express]

So, it's not OK to appear under a pseudonym on electrinic bulletin board, but it's just fine and dandy to let kornet.net continue as the world's number one source of spam, eh?

Maybe we should pull all of our troops out of South Korea...

Oh, by the way, here's a list of e-mail contacts for the Korean spammers who made it impossible for me to use my last e-mail address. Have at them, harvestbots!

abuse@kornet.net, ip@ns.kornet.net, ip@ns.kornet21.net, domain@NS.KORNET.NET, donghk@soback.kornet.net, ever@kt.co.kr, jeonnam3@soback.kornet.net, jeon@kornet.net, jeonbuk3@kornet.net, koreatelecom@KORNET.NET, gfd5246@soback.kornet.net, gspark@kornet.net, help@KORNET.NET, helpdesk@KORNET.NET, haewha1@soback.kornet.net, heyeunmi@kornet.net, kmhno1@soback.kornet.net, hopewon3@soback.kornet.net, kgromc@soback.kornet21.net, kmhno1@soback.kornet.net, legal@KORNET.NET, network@kornet.net, packet@soback.kornet.net, postmaster@kornet.net, postmaster@soback.kornet.net, postmaster@ns.kornet.net, postmaster@soback.kornet.net, pusanpub@soback.kornet.net, root@soback.kornet.net, root@kt.co.kr, service@kornet.net, support@kornet.net, system@kornet.net, yjjeon61@kornet.net, abuse@ns.kornet21.net, domain@ns.kornet21.net, network@ns.kornet21.net, postmaster@ns.kornet21.net, resume@kornet.net, root@ns.kornet21.net, service@ns.kornet21.net, support@ns.kornet21.net, system@ns.kornet21.net, wong@kornet.net, abuse@ASADAL.NET, postmaster@ASADAL.NET, manager@cais.kaist.ac.kr, abuse@hanmir.com, postmaster@hanmir.com, webmaster@hanmir.com, msweet@kt.co.kr, abuse@itnsoft.com, help@itnsoft.com, ip@ns.kornet.net, hostmaster@nic.or.kr, marom@itnsoft.com, postmaster@itnsoft.com, root@itnsoft.com, eglee@yesnic.com, info@yesnic.com, hostmaster@yesnic.com, postmaster@yesnic.com, eglee@whois.co.kr, postmaster@whois.co.kr, whois@whois.co.kr, brkim@INWANG.NOWCOM.CO.KR, domain@NOWNURI.NET, busisik@nownuri.net, kbr@nownuri.net, memory@nownuri.net, abuse@nownuri.net, postmaster@nownuri.net, abuse@dreamx.net, abuse@cjdream.net, abuse@todream.net, admin@dreamx.net, admin@cjdream.net, administration@dreamx.net, administration@cjdream.net, billing@DREAMX.NET, billing@cjdream.net, brkim@cjdream.com, dns@dreamx.net, dns@cjdream.net, dnsadmin@dreamx.net, dnsadmin@cjdream.net, domain@DREAMX.NET, domain@todream.net, domains@DREAMX.NET, domain@todream.net, feedback@DREAMX.NET, feedback@cjdream.net, help@DREAMX.NET, help@cjdream.net, helpdesk@DREAMX.NET, helpdesk@cjdream.net, hostmaster@dreamx.net, hostmaster@cjdream.net, inhanna@cjdream.net, info@dreamx.net, info@cjdream.net, jyan@dreamx.net, jyan@cjdream.net, ley319@dreamx.net, loveabuse@dreamx.net, loveabuse@cjdream.net, mail@dreamx.net, mail@cjdream.net, mgr@cjdream.com, news@dreamx.net, news@cjdream.net, newsabuse@dreamx.net, newsabuse@cjdream.net, postmaster@dreamx.net, postmaster@todream.net, raven3@dreamx.net, raven3@empal.com, root@dreamx.net, root@cjdream.net, soip@cjdream.com, sales@dreamx.net, sales@cjdream.net, sbkim091@dreamx.net, sbkim091@cjdream.net, service@DREAMX.NET, service@cjdream.net, solhan@cjdream.net, spam@DREAMX.NET, spam@cjdream.net, support@cjdream.net, support@dreamx.net, sysop@DREAMX.NET, sysop@cjdream.net, sysop@todream.net, tech@dreamx.net, tech@cjdream.net, technical@dreamx.net, technical@cjdream.net, technicalsupport@dreamx.net, technicalsupport@cjdream.net, system@cjdream.net, system@dreamx.net, sysop@todream.net, ykshin@cjdream.net, ykshin@dreamx.net, eglee@yesnic.com, info@yesnic.com, hostmaster@yesnic.com, eglee@whois.co.kr, brkim@INWANG.NOWCOM.CO.KR, domain@NOWNURI.NET, kbr@nownuri.net, memory@nownuri.net, busisik@nownuri.net, abuse@nownuri.net, postmaster@nownuri.net, inhanna@sysone.co.kr, abuse@thrunet.com, abuse@korea.com, admin@thrunet.com, admin@korea.com, administration@thrunet.com, dns@thrunet.com, dns@korea.com, dnsadmin@thrunet.com, domain@thrunet.com, feedback@thrunet.com, feedback@korea.com, help@thrunet.com, helpdesk@thrunet.com, hostmaster@thrunet.com, mail@thrunet.com, mail@korea.com, news@thrunet.com, news@korea.com, newsabuse@thrunet.com, postmaster@

It's already that bad

[Apreche]

As you may know South Korea is king of the MMO. I tried to play one of them once. They all require you to provide your KSSN# in order to play. That is something which I could not get, being not a Korean citizen. The freaky part is that from the SSN using simple math, similar to the ISBN, you can figure out if the person is male or female. So in South Korean MMOs you are completely non anonymous.

I'd like to have their pretty pretty games, but not at that cost.

No it wouldn't (Identity Theft)

[ironfrost]

I very much doubt that spammers would obey the rules. It wouldn't be that hard to find out someone else's name and passport number, so we'd have innocent people being prosecuted and the spammers getting away with it. And I bet that the burden of proof would be on the person whose identity was stolen to prove that it wasn't them.

Names By Census

[fastdecade]

Wrong. Koreans have three names to choose from:

1. 
   
2. Kim
   
3. Park
   
4. Lee
   

That'll cover 45% of the population, according to the
1945 census

So not the entire population, but a lot more than the top 3 in the 1990 US census (Smith, Johnson, Williams) - about 8 million total, somewhere under 3%.

This is a good thing

[tmark]

Maybe the Korean government is going to look for people who are making way too many posts and make sure they're not about to die from sitting at their terminal for 8 hours in some Seoul baang.

Such a law would be a boon for the Moon Units...

[yintercept]

...and a real drag for the John Smith's of the world. Create such a law, and you would rush to have even weirder spellings for their children's birth names to give them that extra notice in life. You would also see people lining up to change their legal names. Future generations will hear: "My name is Puffy Pants...but you can call my by my nickname...John Smith."

Redundant example

[Jade E. 2]

So they post something that some nutcase doesn't like, then the nutcase hunts that person down and whacks them.

Or people want to speak out against the government.

I hate to point it out, but you seem to have used the same example twice.

Government Shoots Self in Foot...

[Slur]

...Again! Details at 11.

Clearly the reasoning behind this rule is to suppress dissent. I dont know whether this is about N. or S. Korea, but neither one would surprise me.

In North Korea, for example, everyone is required to have a picture of Kim Jong Il prominently displayed in their home. If an official comes to your house and finds the picture missing or displayed in a way which seems unsuitably reverent you can be arrested and jailed for up to two years.

(And what is it about dictators that they insist on splashing their ugly monkey-faces everywhere?

The policy of locking people up for their dissent is foolhardy, especially in a bankrupt country. Likewise, policies which suppress free expression prevent the free exchange and evolution of ideas. Considering that North Korea's best idea for helping their economy is to use nuclear weapons to extort help from the West, the region needs as much free exchange as it can get.

If this new law applied to South Korea it would seem to indicate a sea change in the political climate. Such a shift is not unprecedented in their history. People there still hold to the ideals of Confucianism which values the needs of the collective over the individual. Nevertheless South Koreans value freedom and the right of protest, so this law could not be upheld there for very long.

Here's a cool study about Political Protest in East Asia.

Re:Korean or Chinese Goiv Influence

[dyoo78]

you're wrong... stop spreading lies. The copper infrastructure was deployed by Korea Telecom, the ILEC of Korea. Multiple CLEC now deploy infrastructure. Dacom and Hanaro are among a few. Where do you get your stupid crap idiot.

Re:Re[:My prediction...] Baa... Baa...

[visualight]

As to whether or not the baa-baa-sheep-like-ness will prove to be seriously detrimental to Korean society in the future will require many decades of observation, and many hours spent watching the History Channel after those decades have passed. Who knows? Maybe they've got it right.

Well, after the "Asian Market Collapse" the "baa-baa-sheep-like-ness" did prove very beneficial. When the government called on Koreans to stop traveling and taking Korean money out of the country most Koreans complied. In fact, they put a noticeable dent in the Thai weekend excursion business. Also, when the government called on employees to continue going to work even though their employers had no cash to pay them, most complied. A good friends sister-in-law had a small business with about twenty employees. They continued coming to work despite not getting a paycheck for several months. The whole thing could have been much worse than it was if not for everyone making sacrifices "for the good of the group".

Korean Racism against Non-Koreans

[reporter]

We should not kid ourselves here. The primary reason that the Koreans use the ID number to identify everyone in Korea is to quickly and efficiently force non-Koreans out of the country.

Please read "Once shunned, Chinese in Korea courted again". Even to this day, the Koreans have a racist attitude against non-Koreans. Most damning is the discriminatory laws that the Koreans have used against non-Koreans. The government of Korea gives preferential treatment to ethnic Koreans seeking Korean citizenship, and if you cannot prove that you are ethnically Korean, then you must obtain a personal guarantee from a high-ranking government official. Even more shocking, for more than 50 years, non-Koreans were prohibited from owning businesses. The Koreans "successfully" drove out most of the Chinese, reducing their number from 150,000 to 20,000.

Is it really that vile?

[code65536]

My goodness, people. Just about everyone is jumping in and condemning the government of SK. Before we do that, why don't we take a look at free speech itself?

Free speech is an externality. For those of you who know econ, that means that it's something that affects the people around you and not just you. Pollution and noisy air traffic are also externalities. When dealing with externalities, there are no absolute rights or wrongs. If we ban air traffic, for example, that will hurt people who want to fly, but benefit those who live around airports. If we allow unfettered traffic, it'll benefit travellers but harm those on the ground. So what do we do? We find a place to draw the line, hence laws saying air traffic must be during certain times of the day.

Now, how does this apply to free speech? Political correctness, for example, grants benefits to those who are offended at the expense of those who want to say what they want, whereas allowing unfettered speech benefits those who want to speak at the expense of those who can be offended. It just so happens in *IN OUR CULTURE* under our own Lockean system of beliefs, we think that the benefits of free speech outweigh the benefits of protecting from censorship, so we draw the line so that it's favorable for free speech. But there *IS* a line. If I hold up a gun to you and shout, "I hate you, I feel like killing you," I would be prosecuted for assault. I didn't pull the trigger; all I did was say some very frightening words. Why doesn't free speech protect me there? Because in that case, the benefits of free speech do NOT outweigh the benefits of not feeling immediate threat. And that is why we have assault laws. Likewise, if I shout "fire" in a crowded theatre and people are trampled to injury or death in the ensuing chaos, I would be arrested because I've crossed the line of free speech.

So free speech is NOT absolute! It's not easy to digest philosophically because idealists like to make blanket black-and-white statements about what's right and wrong. But it's the truth; there exists no absolute free speech, and as a result, there is the task of drawing the line between what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. These lines are determined by many factors, including practical considerations, philosophies, cultures, and what the people want. Asian culture has been a collectivist one for hundreds upon hundreds of years, and it is not to be unexpected for them to tend to draw the line at a place where us westerners, under the influence of a few hundred years of John Locke, would feel uncomfortable with. Who are we to say that their line is wrong and ours is right? Have we the arrogance to pass judgment on another culture like that?

Likewise, many people reacted very poorly to the 9/11 restrictions. Yet, the general populace liked the security (or, rather, the false sense of security). So the voters decided to draw the line differently, and despite whatever number of protests there have been, the liberals are in the minority. So what is to say that they are right, even when the majority thinks otherwise?

Think about it.

Re:Hmmm

[Yotsuya]

Yeah, I mean, if it's not happening in America, it can't be important, right?

Re:The Matrix Reloaded.

[sTavvy]

they are actually going to redub it with his Citizen ID, so instead of Neo or Mr. Anderson, it will be 31337, or something.