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Power-over-Ethernet: IEEE 802.3af Draft
SkewlD00d writes "Want power (~10W) and your fat 10/100Mbps pipe (1Gbps maybe) on the SAME jack. Surf the web and recharge your handheld w/o finding its clunky base/transformer, home automation, and control systems are just some of the possibilities. Using suitable hubs/switches or dongle, power can be provided over unused pairs, or possibly raise the signal offset above DC, X10-style (no link, u know why). See IEEE 802.3af DTE Power via MDI Task Force. Maxim (not that one :o) already has some goodies. They have schematics for 8.25W/12.5W single-output and 14.2W triple-output 802.3af PSU. Try FindChips if you're looking for them; they're in production and are NOT vapor-ware!"
Not sure how standard it is, but many Cisco switches support Inline Power, which is used by their Voice-Over-IP Phones. We deal with this constantly where I work.
It can be annoying because if you want to run several phones on one drop, they need power supplies if you don't want to use an expensive inline power capable switch.
from here
Ethenet-over-power, short range for home and long range for ISPs, currently being deployed in the U.S. Check it out.
You just need one of these. http://home.t-online.de/home/w.robel/m_mcbike/humo r_2/ethernetkiller.jpg
Life is not for the lazy.
Here's a useful how-to on powering wireless base stations using Power-Over-Ethernet (POE). Several wireless vendors already sell POE kits for wireless APs. Here's a POE kit for the AirPort.
Power+Ethernet over one wire is a great combination for settting up APs, because many of the interesting places to put a wireless access point (e.g., in the attic, by the pool, in the middle of the ceiling) may not have a power outlet nearby, or you may simply not want to run two sets of wires (AC power + ethernet) to the location.
-Mark
The latest firewire standard can do 800Mb and provide up to 45W of power
I use this extensively with my Lucent/Orinoco wireless APs. Been doing it for about 2 years now. It's also part of 3Com's Ethernet switch/jack technology, and has been implemented for VoIP.
I've found it to be a godsend for my wireless APs, as I can mount my APs near the ceiling (away from students), and not have to worry about finding an outlet, or having them unplugged by the cleaning crew!
Allows power to be distributed where there's no mains sockets (saves on wiring), but also has the potential to damage hardware if a short in the cable occurs.
I can smell burning...
Jon
OK this is a good idea from my perspective. I have used Cisco IP phones w9ith this and they work great it's a LOT easier than a UPS for every IP phone (look at a sales guy and try to explain why the phone died when they power took a hit phones need to be reliable) I have used it with 3com AP's again it works great and makes it easy to stick the AP on the drop ceiling and other hard to reach places PoE again can provided needed UPS power to the AP it also has the side benifit of the AP isn't up and running unless the network is plugged in (I have seen it happen it's not pretty)
I'm waiting for a laptop that can suplement/charge itself over PoE I have a subnotebook that only draws 14 watts charging PoE is close to that possibly enough for a trickle charge. It would seem to be a cheap addon to a laptop ethernet. A lot of people in offices hook laptops up to PSU but leave them on the wireless because it's easier this could make a one cable solution. I can see a whole line of terminals as well for POS applications. In reality on a lot of things this could replace the charger for small devices like PDA's and hook them up to the network at the same time.
Now it seems to be incompatable with GigE over copper since that uses all 8 wires.
No sir I dont like it.
- why no links on X10 ?
Because they are misinformed. They are thinking of X10-the-company, which is notorious for pop-under ads. But what they really mean is X10-the-protocol [scroll down a bit for a good introduction], which is used by many companies.
- which maxim is obvious ?
Maxim is a "gentleman's magazine" that has been pushing the limits of how much semi-porn you can include without getting banned from shelves. Recently this and competing magazines went too far for Walmart.
bp
If you want wireless power, just hook up a good ol' tesla coil.
Wake me up when they invent wireless power.
:)
to implementing power over TCP/IP.
Read the RFC Here.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
here is a link to TI's PDF datasheet only $1.25 in qtys of 1000 for the device side, much cheaper than a wall wart
Free cell phone tracking
Sweet ! Now you can get ethernet over power over ethernet !
Imagine getting a kilovolt (at a kiloamp) back from a web site that's being slashdotted.
Or better yet. Imagine sending THAT as a response to some Spam.
That would take care of the problem PDQ.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
While overstated, I wonder what the power safety capabilities are in some of the already-available implementations of this.
I'm not as worried about shock, but about unintentional shorts burning out switch ports or misplugged equipment. It'd be awesome if there were software-resettable breakers on the switches so that you wouldn't lose line cards. I had the misfortune of accidentally shorting a couple of Merlin phone system ports and those ports are dead, dead, dead forever.
I also wonder what it does to existing wiring codes and cable plants if any significant power starts to become present on data cabling. It'd suck to become dependent on this power only to have data cabling drops become more costly due to tighter code restrictions on where they can be placed.
Number one cause of device failure for SCSI devices: power shorts on SCSI chain.
Number one cause of device and motherboard failure for Firewire devices: power shorts on Firewire chain.
Notice a pattern?
There's good reason to have two cables running to each device: when a cable inevitably goes bad or the user mis-mates a hot connection, the chance for device damage is minimal.
"You have liberated me from thought."
The hot-swap chip is required by the standard and handles unitentional shorts. From the data sheet: "Provides Safe Hot Swap for +10V to +65V Power Supplies". This also 1) limits maximum inrush and 2) limits steady-stage current to 1) avoid "drooping" the supply voltage and 2) handle faults on the secondary (e.g. 6 V) side. I haven't looked at the standard recently, but there are supposed to be limits on the supply (-48 V) end to handle faults there. The reasons -48 V is used are it is very standard in telecom so low cost parts available for DC/DC converters and it is less than +/- 60 V which is the limit for "low voltage" in existing wiring codes.
The Linear typical app seems to be much smaller, with fewer external components because it's actually optimized for the application.
The Maxim chips appear to be generic hot-swap IC's not optimized for power-over-ethernet. Using slashdot is an interesting way to publish an app-note and get some publicity.
Just download IEEE_802.3af_FULL_REAL_WORKING_VERSION.exe
-]Phreak Out[-
I already have tethered power. But riddle me this, batman: when am I gonna get power over WIRELESS ethernet?
I'm willing accept a little sparking.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
X10 the protocol was developed by X10 the company, which still owns a number of patents on it.
So sadly, www.x10.com is the official site for the x10 protocol (although you can't find any details on the exact protocol these days.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
This spec has been out a while now... 2 years ago PowerDsine made a prototype ethernet-powered razor - here's coverage from more traditional network press
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Is this going to work with cheap installations which are already using the extra pairs in Cat5? RS sell a splitter / combiner which (as a last resort) lets you use the "spare" pairs in an existing 10/100 base-T run to run a parallel 10/100 base-T connection.
It MAY work - or at least not fry it. And it will probably continue to work if you don't want to use the power. But you'll need another device to inject/extract power on the "second line" if you want to use it for both power and signals. And the device will need to be the "series transformer pass-the-signal" type, rather than the cheaper "tie the wires together and run 'em to a power supply" type.
I HAVEN't read the $67-member-price draft (that nobody seems to have summarized to Slashdot yet - thanks guys...). But judging by the allegedly-conforming implementations that HAVE been linked, the standard seems to involve:
* a -48 volt supply and its return
* each power supply wire using BOTH conductors of a pair.
* (It's not clear whether the standard only talks about using the "spair pairs" or explicitly addresses phantoming onto working signal pairs.)
Some of the equipment is set up to use the two "spair" pair as the power wires, just tying them together. Other equipmet has a pair of transformers to use a pair-of-pair for BOTH signaling and power, via center-tap "phantoming".
So the cheap connector that just brings out the second pair-of-pair for a separate ethernet run will
I can smell burning...
On any device that didn't properly DC-isolate both the signal and "spair" pair for >50 volts, combined with a power injector that doesn't current limit, quite possibly. Ditto if somebody wires a jack wrong and, say, swaps a conductor from a pair supplying the -48v with one from a pair supplying the 48v return path.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
There are two reasons for not going for lower voltage, number one is loss, over 100m of cabling you get a lot of power loss at lower voltages. The second is that +44 is a common telco rack voltage so a lot of telecom equipment is already setup to use it.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
...mention of the BOFH!!!
Another relevant fave found here.
The whole shebang.
I'm done with sigs. Sigs are lame.