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VIA's New Nehemiah M10000 Processor Reviewed

Joseph Wharton writes "Mini-ITX.com has a review of VIA's new Nehemiah M10000 EPIA-M motherboard and processor. Some of the new features include a full-speed floating-point unit (finally!), SSE instructions, 64KB of full-speed L2 cache, and (get this) a hardware-based random number generator. Also, there's IO/APIC support in these new procs, potentially paving the way for dual EPIA boards."

23 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. Law of chip naming? by JeffSh · · Score: 5, Funny

    The name of the processor and chipset shall be inversely porportionate to the actual size of the chipset and chip.

    imagine, when boards are self contained on one microchip, the name will be the "ultra gigaplexor 90000000 duplex teranaxor"

  2. Oh boy, a VIA chipset and CPU !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now I can have a complete system failure

  3. Makes for a great jukebox by microbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I used the 800mhz Eden to put together a great Jukebox. The digital coax out to my receiver works like a charm.

    Having all my music on-line and ready to be played on any PC in the house is pretty nice.

    1. Re:Makes for a great jukebox by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's their target market, and boy are these things great for uses like that. 17cm x 17cm footprint and decent media performance.

      IIRC a lot of "next-gen" DVD players will be using these mainboards, and they've started putting things like hardware mpeg decoding/etc. into them. They're ideal for digital jukebox/emulator/dvd player/pvr combo systems.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    2. Re:Makes for a great jukebox by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 5, Informative

      I forgot, don't expect one of these to run Doom 3 or UT2003. They will run office, and they will play DVDs. The earlier ones required no active cooling, it's still an extremely low power chip however.

      I found the M10000 for $182 at directron, and here's what you get for your money:
      VIA C3 1GHz processor
      10/100 Ethernet
      Firewire
      TV-OUT (S-video, RCA(PAL and NTSC))
      6 Channel Audio

      Not a bad deal, methinks. Probably can be found cheaper, but I didn't want to look too hard.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    3. Re:Makes for a great jukebox by seafoodbuffet · · Score: 5, Informative

      Anyone considering a M10000 should read this first. Basically, VIA released two separate boards under the M10000 name. The second of which is the only one to feature the Nehemiah core. The first series (the one from directron.com) still uses the older Ezra-T core. Right now, there's not many vendors who can reliably provide Nehemiah processors. The only places I've seen are idot.com and monarchcomputer.com.

  4. 64KB cache? by Animats · · Score: 4, Funny

    That sounds a bit small.

    1. Re:64KB cache? by mmol_6453 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cache is only useful when you're working on a small data set. Multimedia applications tend to constantly move through a large data set, which makes the cache all but useless. Full details here.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
    2. Re:64KB cache? by liquidsin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Think so? I'd heard that 64 kb should be enough for everyone...

      --
      do not read this line twice.
  5. Book of Nehemiah: by bugsmalli · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wasn't sure about Nehemiah, so googled and found this:
    Book of Nehemiah:
    This book continues the history of the children of the captivity, the Jews lately returned out of Babylon. We have a full account of Nehemiah's labours for them, in these his commentaries: wherein he records not only the works of his hands, but the very workings of his heart, inserting many devout reflections and ejaculations, which are peculiar to his writing. Twelve years he was the tirshatha, or governor of Judea, under the same Artaxerxes that gave Ezra his commission. This book relates his concern for Jerusalem and commission to go thither, chap. 1, 2. His building the wall of Jerusalem, notwithstanding much opposition, chap. 3, 4. His redressing the grievances of the people, chap. 5. His finishing the wall, chap. 6. The account he took of the people, chap. 7. His calling the people to read the law, fast and pray, and renew their covenant, chap. 8 - 10. He peoples Jerusalem and settles the tribe of Levi, chap. 11, 12. He reforms divers abuses, chap. 13. This was the last historical book that was written, as Malachi, the last prophetical book of the old testament.

  6. One would hope.... by Organic_Info · · Score: 5, Funny

    One would hope they don't host their site on a mini-itx box :)

    --
    "Things that you own end up owning you" - Tyler Durden (via Diogenes of Sinope).
  7. a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed by bpland · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's almost dead but here is the page about the CPU.. interesting. hehe

    "Nehemiah is the next generation C3 CPU, and features a number of improvements over the Ezra-T C3 used in all previous EPIAs. It has The 20.5 million transistors, and uses a 0.13 micron process. For comparison, a Barton Athlon or Northwood Pentium 4 have about 55 million transistors, and recent GPUs have over 100 million transistors.

    The Nehemiah is designed to work at clock speeds of 1GHz and beyond - the Ezra-T is designed at up to about 1GHz.

    Nehemiah has a die size of 52mm2 - the world's smallest x86 processor. It has been designed to minimize power consumption and optimise heat dissipation - VIA call this "Coolstream". Some active cooling is still required, but not very much. Let's hope for a Nehemiah Eden C3 version.

    The Nehemiah features SSE instructions instead of the 3DNow! instructions featured on previous C3s. This should bring enhanced performance in 3D applications, which are optimised for more modern SIMD instruction sets. SSE optimised image processing applications should also benefit.

    Full Speed FPU - the Nehemiah has a full speed floating point unit for the first time. The Ezra-T has a half-speed FPU. Floating point calculations are used heavily in 3D rendering, multimedia, and streaming applications.

    Enhanced 64KB Full-Speed Exclusive L2 cache with 16-way associativity. An exclusive L2 cache gives a larger effective total cache size as it doesn't replicate the contents of the L1 cache. The more cache available, the more chance there is that program loops can run in cache and not comparatively slow main memory.

    StepAhead Advanced Branch Prediction - Looks ahead and gathers the data needed to optimally run applications

    A hardware based random number generator (RNG) has been added. This creates true random numbers from the random electrical noise on the chip. This is of much use in security applications, allowing a strong cryptographic key to be generated. VIA call this the "PadLock Data Encryption Engine".

    Future Nehemiahs will feature IO/APIC support. An Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller (APIC) provides multi-processor interrupt management - dual processor EPIA anyone?

    The Nehemiah is available in EBGA or Socket 370 packages - both are low profile and require less board real estate."

  8. Re:New Via by tjrw · · Score: 5, Informative

    A hardware random-number generator is useful for crypto. If you've ever tried porting something like OpenSSH to a platform that didn't have decent RNG support (i.e. no /dev/random or /dev/urandom like Linux has), you'll have run into the fun and games of trying to come up with a decent random source.

    Hardware support for RNG is a "Good Thing(TM)", and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the "Trusted Computing Platform" or whatever the DRM flavour of the day happens to be ! :-)

  9. They should have called it... by rizawbone · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...the "Better Than Ezra".

  10. Why Via names stuff after Christian Mythology by Indy1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ceo of Via, Wen-chi Chen, is a Fundlementist Christian, so as a result this is the name source for many of their products (joshua, sameul, nehemiah).

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
    1. Re:Why Via names stuff after Christian Mythology by David+Chappell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nehemiah was a 6th or 5th century BCE govenor of Judea during a time when Judea was under Medo-Persian rule. I would describe Joshua, Samuel, and Nehemiah as figures from Jewish history rather than Christian mythology.

      Of course, in the 19th century it was popular to assert that public figures mentioned in the Bible are figments of the writers' imagination, but this view seems to be largely discredited. The names of too many of these 'fictituous characters' showed up on monuments and public records uncovered by archeologists.

  11. before we start griping... by iamkrinkle · · Score: 4, Informative

    before everyone starts comparing this to p4 or athlon, it's not meant to compare to them. this chip is only 1 ghz, but the selling point is it's low power consumption and it doesn't run too hot (the slower cpu's use only passive cooling). So yeah, you're not going to be playing doom 3 on it, but you can do cool things like put it in your car or have a pc that is (almost) completely silent. So for around 200 you get a mobo/cpu/video card/sound card/etc... not too bad of a deal if you ask me...

  12. More models to come? by lpret · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm waiting for the 3 Ghz Jesus model to come out. Apparently it would be able "to do miracles!" I don't know about this marketing hype sometimes, you kind of have to see it to believe it.

    Signing off,
    Doubting Thomas

    --
    This is my digital signature. 10011011001
  13. More info from Via Press Release by MikeD83 · · Score: 5, Informative
    VIA Press Release, April 15, 2003

    Notable features:
    • 10% drop in power consumption
    • 50% drop in system noise
    • Integrated MPEG-2 decoder
    • ATA-133
    • 10/100 Mbps Ethernet
    • S-Video and RCA tv-Out
    • S/PDif digital audio connection
    • 1 avaliable PCI slot
  14. Re:64K cache by tjrw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The write-up is misleading...
    The 64k is the L2 cache which is 16-way set-associative, full-speed and exclusive i.e. it doesn't overlap with the contents of the L1 cache. The L1 cache is 128k unless they've changed it (none of the immediately available info mentions the size, but that's what the current C3 has).

    So, actually the chip has 192K of cache, configured pretty much the same as it was in the AMD Duron (128k L1, 64k L2, exclusive). Considering the target marketplace and performance of the chip, this seems to be plenty.

  15. Hardware based random number generator? by docbrown42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    and (get this) a hardware-based random number generator

    Oh, so it comes with a pair of fuzzy dice? What about a "Type R" sticker, so it'll SEEM faster?

    --
    Ed Wedig
    Graphic design services
    docbrown.net
  16. Random Noise Generator by mdechene · · Score: 4, Funny

    A hardware based random number generator (RNG) has been added. This creates true random numbers from the random electrical noise on the chip. This is of much use in security applications, allowing a strong cryptographic key to be generated. VIA call this the "PadLock Data Encryption Engine".

    VIA Engineers also note that this was previously a set of registers that they just couldn't iron the crosstalk kinks out of. As such, it was rebranded a feature in classic computer tradition.

    --

    Karma: Not Particularly Funny.
  17. VIA's reluctance to support Linux by phliar · · Score: 4, Informative
    On the Via Arena Forum for EPIA-M Linux support the outlook is bleak. Via seem reluctant to fully support Linux, in particular with the MPEG hardware and the EHCI USB. One person trying to develop a distribution for EPIA-M says:
    The EPIA-M's aren't very well supported on Linux at all. The bare minimum will work, but there is a lot of work to be done, especially on VIA's part.
    ...
    VIA should not claim that the EPIA-M is Linux compatible, unless it is actively supporting the Linux community by improving support to at least a level of being able to take advantage of most of the hardware's features. I hope VIA becomes more actively involved in the future.
    Here's the complete summary of hardware support for EPIA-M by "jonthorpe" on March 10, 2003:
    USB 2.0: I have been in contact with David Brownwell for the past two months in an attempt to resolve the issues with the VT8235's EHCI support in general. Most people will experience system hangs when they attempt to use the EHCI controller, although it is improving. VIA has apparently provided David with hardware, but with little support. As of late, the problem seems to extend beyond the VT8235's EHCI - on another VT8235 based board, it was revealed that there are IRQ/PCI issues causing any USB 2.0 card (e.g. an NEC which is usually stable) to hang.

    Audio: ALSA should work for the EPIA-Ms with their ALC650, but the OSS drivers are still a better option in my opinion. The original EPIAs will experience problems with ALSA (crackly sound on new versions of ALSA, no sound at all on previous). The OSS driver in newer kernels (e.g. 2.4.21-pre5-acX) works well with OSS playback, but there are two major problems:

    1. ESound does not work. This limits the user to only one stream to pass through the sound card. This can generate problems with applications such as web browsers which use the Flash plugin (especially if another sound application is already running - e.g. XMMS)
    2. Recording does not work whatsoever. This is a major problem that I am yet to talk to Alan about, but there is absolutely no recording with OSS drivers. ALSA drivers have more success with this, but the audio quality is poor.
    VGA: This will work nicely if you're running one of VIA's supported distribution versions. This is not good for people like myself who insist on using updated kernels to work with other features of their hardware. This limits us to using the Slim driver for the CLE266, removing MPEG2 hardware acceleration. I am developing a distribution that is to be bundled with EPIA-M systems, and even after mentioning that, sending two emails to VIA and signing up on the driver request page has proven fruitless and are completely ignored.

    I haven't tested this myself, but I believe there are problems with VIA's CLE266 drivers when it comes to virtual screens. The driver simply cannot handle them.

    NIC: This works flawlessly, with the via-rhine driver. There are no problems to report.

    FireWire: I have no idea about this one either, but I can say that the host controller is at least recognised by the Linux driver. I'd love to hear from anyone who has tested the EPIA-M's firewire on Linux.

    --
    Unlimited growth == Cancer.