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Microsoft's Software Philanthropy: The Goodwill Ploy
bethanie writes "The New York Times has printed a story concerning Microsoft's plans to 'significantly increase its donation of software to the nation's nonprofit organizations, to a level that may approach $1 billion annually in the next three to four years. ...But the increase has also drawn objections from developers of 'open source' programs (programs for which the source code is freely distributed). Those critics say they believe Microsoft is using a giveaway strategy to undercut the so-called free software movement in the potentially promising nonprofit market.' What do you think? Is it true philanthropy or just another tactic to assimilate everyone into the MS collective?"
When you're one of the richest companies on the planet, "philanthropy" always has an aim.
Never argue with an idiot, he'll just lower you to his level and beat you with experience.
A good read is here
I'm not Seth.
"The first one's free"
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
...how "free" undercuts "free"?
When both prices are nil, what's left to compare but individual merit and the availability of technical support?
The coolest voice ever.
Of course, if the scuttlebutt is that MS uses other loopholes to dodge all its taxes are true, then it's a moot point.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
But to be honest if Microsoft didn't give away the money, people would be crying and moaning about that.
As much as we all hate the evil empire, for them it's damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
Look at it this way, the money is going to worthwhile causes, be happy it's doing someone other than a rich investor, or evil Bill himself, some good.
Mike
They're going after markets that don't have much money in the first place. They realize internally, though would never admit, that giving away software to people who wouldn't buy it otherwise doesn't cost them money. Externally, they'll say how they're doing such good things, and say how "We gave away a billion dollars in software last year.", but that wasn't a billion dollars that they could have had otherwise.
This is basically the same as the RIAA giving me a bunch of MP3 files of music I wouldn't have bought anyhow and claiming they gave me a thousand dollars of music.
Or like me saying I have a baseball card that's worth $100,000. It's only worth that if someone will buy it. If no one will buy it, then it's a piece of cardboard with a picture on it.
The moral of the story is that they're giving away something that costs them nothing to a market group that wouldn't have bought their stuff otherwise, and keeping Free software out.
"Most European technology just isn't worth our stealing," -- Former CIA chief James Woolsey, referring to Echelon
Did somebody forget to proofread this article before posting? That makes no sense - how in the fuck can you undercut a free product? How is such a market "promising" if no sales are made? How is there even what could be called a "market" for something that is free? Doesn't one have to buy or sell in a market?
I think the Free Software people are just jealous because Microsoft, too, figured out that giving away their software for free is a good idea. God, it's like you people want to see non-profits be deprived of choices or special benefits in the market. Truly the mark of a zealot - you people were probably the same people who wanted to see Skylarov kept in prison so he could be the test case for your DMCA challange.
--sdem
Exploiting monopoly is by its nature, illegal. If it could be demonstrated that their pricing is designed to undercut the competition, thats abuse of monopoly power. Microsoft is trying to exploit the LegalCode(tm) bug that a gift can't be selling, and therefore isn't subject to those legal standards. It's just more envelope pushing, and legality is for the courts to decide.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
I have always wondered if seeding an OS out in the world really helps business all that much. I agree that it makes common sense; however, I have never seen the proof.
For example, Apple flooded the school systems 15 years ago with pretty good little systems. They were used to teach typing, accounting, and basic computer skills... What did all that effort earn Apple?
Not much in my opinion. Maybe it always works... maybe the Apple episode is the exception.
Risking Karma here... I am predominately a windows user; however, I cheer for linux as much as humanly possible. I think the competition is wonderful for the consumer and the market.
Davak
Chapter 12 of Free for All analyzes the differences between Microsoft's version of charity and the open source's version. It sort of anticipated this debate by a few years and it also asks the very interesting question about tax deductions. Just how much did M$ write off for these deductions? The full cost of the software? The list price? Or just the amortized cost of development? Or perhaps the most honorable, nothing at all. That's how much the FSF takes off their taxes.
While at some level it is possible that Microsoft will be donating "value" to the organizations involved, the value has nothing to do with the actual cost of the software.
As far as the packaged software is concerned, a copy of Windows (any version) Office (any version) or any other piece of software Microsoft donates to charity, the cost is the raw material involved in the package, and the cost of duplication for the content. Also by donating copies of software packages to charity, they bring down the total cost of production per unit.
The 1 Billion dollar value, per year, is far more likely to be related to the MSRP price Microsoft puts on the product, than on the material cost.
While I am sure that a part of this has to do with Microsoft doing just about anything in it's power to undercut it's competition, (which does include Open Source Software these days) it is also potentially valuable to them in that so far the company has been able to escape taxes in a number of ways. This provides another way for them to write off proffits that they would otherwise have to claim when it came time to file State and Federal taxes.
Perhaps of more concern is the fact that by using these applications, charities are going to be locking themselves into a proprietary set of file formats that they may not later be able to extract information from without Microsoft's blessings.
Then again, that's just my opinion. I have been wrong before, it will probably happen again.
-Rusty
You never know...
Donations are tax deductable. Theoretically, if they donate enough, they'll eventually wipe out all their taxable income.
"Sure Mr. Elementary School Principal, every one of your students needs XP Super Advanced Enterpri$e on their desktops. Let me just fire up the printing presses!"
lets face it .. the vast majority of these organizations are probably using pirated copies of office .. or whatever else they could not afford .. so if faced with the choice piracy vs. donations i think donations is a pretty good option.
...
the question we should be asking is what is making linux so inacessable to all of the masses that are running a pirated copy of winxp and office xp on their build your own box
The part that worries me about this is the tax deduction they get from doing this. My understanding of this is that traditionally (or otherwise) companies get the full value tax deducted off of their expenses. That is the "1 Billion $" of virtual licenses "given" away to people who would otherwise not buy your software provides a huge tax writeoff. As software isn't made of "tangible assets" in the same way that hardware is a tangible asset, this would be an easy scam for many software companies to pull to avoid paying any taxes. (Though MS doesn't pay any tax for other reasons)
What is Microsoft's definition of 'give away'?
Do they mean -
- A charity/NPO can obtain a master CD which they can install on as many PC's as they like, forever more?
- A charity/NPO will be able to download the latest updates, the latest operating system and the latest features at no cost into the forseeable future (say 100 years)?
- A charity/NPO will be granted total exemption from licence tracking and auditing into the forseeable future?
No? Perhaps they mean.
- We will give away our software and do whatever else is necessary, by whatever means, to destroy all current and future competition in the desktop operating system market, and THEN when our monopoly is returned and assured, we will review those charity/NPO software licences and collect our rightful due?
Even free is a bad deal when someone can enforce a EULA at some future date. Under the EULA, Microsoft (and many other software companies) are not selling a product they are granting a licence. A product, once purchased, becomes the property of the purchaser, whereas a licence can be revoked.
>>
I am the director, and this is my movie
i need to keep 2 dozen PCs at school up to date - they're all donations, they have whatever OS the giver had, I need them all to be on a par so kids can go from one to another without a brain freeze, and though a part of me wishes they'd play fair on a lot of other things, this seems like it's more needed than evil.
apple has been known to give the OS at a significant discount to teachers, i'm surprised they made a stink.
plus how long would i be working there if i told the boss 'we can get this for free, but on principle i'll just run down to staples and pick up 24 of them at the sell thru price...'
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
More than Both. If they can get:
1. Tax credit
2. Press (preferably good press)
3. Good will of the charities.
4. Make themselves feel like good giving citizens
5. AND keep Open Source from gaining mindshare
They win all the way around, and without costing them a dime. I mean really. Charities can't afford 200 dollar Operating Systems and 3 or 400 dollar Office Suites, let alone the people who know how to maintain it.
Which brings a potential 6th benefit for MS:
What if it crashes and these charites don't know how to reactivate it? Uh-oh, they might end up having to go out and BUY a new copy! Meaning more profit for Microsoft.
I worked for a non-profit organization once.
For an organization of about 100 (maybe more) people, there was exactly ONE IT admin, plus one intern like myself.
Sad thing is, though, neither MS nor OSS, to me, provides the best solution - because non-profits are usually so cash strapped - which turns to be people-strapped, time-strapped, etc.
I remember back then we tried to set up a whole slew of services (this was before MS BackDoor erm BackOffice) came out - and tried to put almost the entire line of MS servers onto one NT4 machine. needless to say, the thing would crap out just sitting there idle. (and these were donated software. sorry to say but MS has been donating to non-profits for a loooong time, for good or bad)
With that kind of instability (and we can't afford shiny new dells, so we get all the systems either custom build very cheaply, or get donated used ones), MS servers won't do. Maybe now it's better, but with the kind of system requirements, I seriously doubt we can run XP / 2k Servers.
However, i don't really think linux would really do either - because user-support is the rest of the spent time when the IT group (the 1.5 person - one admin and the part-time intern) isn't fiddling with junk. And I just can't see any possibility in training 75 year old gradma's (seriously - some of them really were!) to do any new computing technology within any kind of resonable timeframe. I am sorry to say, guys, KDE and GNOME is not the easiest to figure out, and certainly not the easiest to teach. The UI design does not follow a strict standards across OSS software (okay, to me anyway), so that causes a lot of problems.
I personally think that if Apple gave us a huge slew of over-stocked iMacs, we'd been all set. I think macs tend to last a lot longer than PCs (average life span, anyway - maybe it's due to the higher per-unit cost?), but doesn't degrade into pitifulness nearly as fast; even right now the first-gen iMacs, I think, are still usable. And yes, Macs are more intuitive UI-wise.
But that never happened, so when I left, the lone IT admin was still holding back the fire, in the most endless, swamped way...
Okay, I am sure that was related somehow, though not sure HOW exactly.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
And when BG does it, it's not philanthropic....not by a long shot. It is self-serving...and not in a karmic kind of way, either.
Philanthropy: The practice of helping people in need. Nothing there about it being a business practice!
When there are strings attached (and w/MS there are always strings), it's called 'manipulation'. Some may recall when one of the suggested penalties after MS was convicted, was for them to give away software? Hardly a penalty, and everyone knew that, including MS.
Remember, investing in MS is risking having your own resources used against you.
I believe microsoft has sufficiently demonstrated to the people that it now has the political prowess to thwart any legal challenge to how it uses its monopoly. What was it the Bush administration was saying after the newly manned justice department quickly settled the suit? Something like they didn't see why the government was bringing microsoft to trial in the first place? I'm sure somebody has the article stashed away somewhere.
After being found guilty of illegally using their monopoly, they were told to pay a penalty that is less than 10% of what they made breaking the law. If the penalty for stealing $100 is paying a $10 fine, why on earth would you stop stealing $100?
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
They'll be forced into an upgrade cycle. They'll be forced to buy all the little extras it takes to bring MS systems up to level with other systems. And so on. A big donation looks nice and free to the clueless, but once you get into what else you need to actually get work done, the price of the OS and basic software (heck, even just Office) isn't even close to your total cost.
...eventually you pay the price. Free software is always free, but microsoft software is only free when they say it is, and never thereafter. I doubt that they are giving away their tech support, for example. It's like giving away 1,000 free tickets to Disneyland, but you still charge for everything once inside.
stuff |
OSS gives away billions of dollars worth of software every day! They give it to schools, universities, small businesses, large corps, non-profits, people (like me), governments, etc. Most of this is commercial grade software such as; gcc, Linux, Apache, etc. Now that is Philanthropy!
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
assimilate everyone into the MS collective ?
You post your story on Slashdot, so why do you have to ask ?
Yes, everybody knows Microsoft is evil, wants to take over the world, and that Bill Gates wants to stick fireants in Linus' and RMS' underwears.
Yes, everybody hates Microsoft, that Windows users are all stupid, that Linuxers have discovered the Virtuous Path.
Yes we know that Microsoft pulls the SCO puppet strings, that they make evil deals with the MPAA and RIAA.
Yes, we know all that by now, Slashdot crew. Can we move along now ? why do we have to read the same Microsoft articles with world-domination overtones over and over again ?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Unless of course, you're a drug dealer....or BG.
Playing level...that's rich. Can't you 2D MS apologists be more subtle when when you shovel it? Try again....this sort of comedy is good for a laugh or two or three or....
"out to make money" Nono - Microsoft is out to try to create a condition whereby anyone who wants to use a computer in the modern world HAS to use MS software to do so, and eventually, HAS to pay a recurring fee to MS for the privilege of doing so.
If MS, instead of giving "a billion dollars" of MS software to these nonprofits, gave them an actual billion dollars (string-free), and let them do with it what they want (which might include spending it on MS software, or might include buying a billion dollars worth of hardware, and running free software on it), then Id be impressed.
And yes, getting users 'used' to using MS software does tend to make it hard for them to choose anything else. Like someone else mentioned, the comparison to drug dealers giving out 'free samples' is apt.
As for wondering whether Microsoft is doing this for philanthropic reasons - the simple answer is "of course not". If I was a Microsoft shareholder, I would want to sack any Microsoft board of directors that used the company's resources for anything other than increasing the bottom-line.
Bill (and Missus) Gates received and deserved praise for their significant contribution to the eradication of malaria.
At face value, the donation of expensive software to not-for-profit organisations is a good thing.
On reflection, however, this is how they destroyed Netscape - they gave away Internet Explorer free, as in beer (okay, TCO budgets aside).
Verdict? Too soon to say. Applaud the effort, monitor the effects.
Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
These guys just can't win. They get slagged off in the media for not contributing to schools (for not allowing the transfer of licenses, not offering free licenses to charities, etc).
Now they give in, do the right thing, and give the stuff away and they get in trouble for that!
If Microsoft stuff is free, and OSS stuff is free, surely the better product will win in that market sector? Sounds to me like OSS supporters are all-too-aware that their software has a way to go before anybody would choose it over Microsoft if it were free (other than the Germans perhaps...)
The nonprofits using CompuMentor's philanthropy program aren't giving up free (as in speech) software and swapping it for MicroSoft stuff because it's low cost. They're upgrading from old Microsoft programs to newer ones. If the program wasn't their very few of them would move to open source, they'd just stay on older technology for longer and be less efficient. This philanthropy program isn't where nonprofits get their first fix, that comes from pre-installed operating systems and software just as it does for most small businesses. CompuMentor's TechSoup.org site also distributes Lotus' 1-2-3 and Smartsuite Millenium, as well as providing links and resources for open source software, but the biggest demand is for Microsoft products. That demand will change in nonprofits when it changes in the for-profit sector.
Giving away the money? What money? Microsoft is giving away copies of their software which cost them exactly $0 and serves to maintain their monopoly. There are practically no lost sales (non-profit organizations wouldn't be able to afford to pay for Microsoft's software anyway) and the monopoly effect (specifically, Microsoft's incompatible protocols and file formats) actually generates more sales out of the people who need to communicate with those non-profit organizations! Also, they may be able to get a huge tax writeoff by claiming the full retail cost of the giveaway software as business expense. (Any accountants on /. ? Please confirm.) So where is the philantropy?
This is really no different than the "punishment" Microsoft proposed to settle their antitrust suit: give away $1 billion worth of Microsoft's software to schools. Apple was very unimpressed with this proposition and said so to the judge. That was one of the reasons the deal fell through.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Microsoft isn't giving away money, it's giving these charities a limited number of free licenses for its software.
No doubt, this donated software has strings attached, just as similar Microsoft donation have had in the past. Only last year, on this very website, I remember reading about the company "donating" copies of Office to a charity in a poverty-ridden African nation on the condition that the same number of copies of Windows were bought to run it on.* And I can recall other examples before that one too.
Almost without exception, Microsoft's donations are targetted to meet Microsoft's long-term goals. A few licenses here, a few there buys Microsoft lots of positive PR ("hey, look at how nice we are to the little kiddies") but anyone who thinks that the company's motives are purely philanthropic is living in cloud-cockoo land.
Microsoft is a company that has billions in the bank. The amount of good it could do with even a fraction of that wealth is unimaginable. Calling the giving away of its own software charity is a joke. Using some of its significant cash reserves to wipe out a large chunk of Third-World debt - now that would be real charity.
(*It seemed to be oblivious to the relevant marketing/public affairs people at Microsoft that a cash-strapped charity in a Third-World country didn't have the kind of resources to afford one copy of Windows to install on the recycled machines that it had luckily procured, let alone ten or twenty. Sometimes, people who think nothing of paying $2 for a cup of coffee seem to be really thick when it comes to visualising how the other half lives.)
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The thing I myself am advocating for is moving forward to Linux Terminal Server. I envision large scale and low cost in hardware as well as software. Less headaches because you maintain one installation and a bunch of thin clients and more importantly no increase in tech staff needed (cause the state and federal 'powers that be' are clipping program 'administration' costs across the board.)
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
A decade or so back, Bill Gates and Microsoft got a lot of flak about being in the newer generation of wealthy that wasn't nearly as philanthropic as the old weathly.
After that, he made statements about shifting his focus to philanthropy after he retired (I think he said at age 50, at the time). Then after he got married, his wife has been extremely active in charitable donation (most notably with grants to urban schools and to youth in third world countries with disease problems).
One of the easiest ways for Microsoft itself to be philanthropic is to donate their products, rather than to donate cash. So it seems to make perfect sense for them, if they are trying to contribute to society in a charitable fashion, to donate their products to nonprofits and other needy organizations.
Yes, they may be helping improve their market share with these donations. But you people can't have your cake and eat it too -- if bitch about them not giving to charity, and then you can't turn around and bitch about them doing it, regardless of how they do it (unless they're giving all their money to the KK or something). This would be like bitching about Ford trying to increase their market share if they donated trucks to organizations that brought meals to the elderly that couldn't get out of the house. This is a totally ridiculous topic, the text describing the article itself is basically flamebait.
Gates learned this tactic from his coke dealer.
"Your first hit is free."
Microsoft can't claim a tax deduction for the retail price of the software, only for the cost of providing the CD etc. to the nonprofits.
Since it all comes out of pre-tax income they don't get a return. They just get to say it is a legitimate business expense, so they don't have to pay tax on the money they actually spent administering the program.
Money or other gifts from an organization have to have a legitimate purose or they become taxable income as though they were actually profit (presumable this is to stop them giving gifts to share holders instead of paying tax on their profit before dispersing it).
The Billion dollar figure is just for public relations.
Uhhm, no they couldn't. They didn't have that billion dollars in the first place. This is the point the parent post was making but it obviously went right over your head. Non-profit orgs can't spend the money on software. Microsoft can't charge them for software. But giving away the software actually benefits Microsoft.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Last October, /. had an article on the topic. This described a fairly blatant case of "donating" a lot of software that couldn't run on the schools' computers unless the schools paid for expensive upgrades. The cost of the upgraded would have been much more than the claimed (i.e., retail) "value" of the donated software.
This is an old ruse. Before Microsoft, IBM used similar "gifts" to both tie schools into IBM hardware and make them pay for upgrades that the schools wouldn't have bought otherwise.
It's called "marketing".
Keeping the competition out is just part of it. Giving away freebies that require the mark to then buy something even more expensive is an old technique that long predates the existence of computers. When you buy a cheap laser or bubble-jet printer that then requires expensive ink cartridges every month, you are falling for the same tactic.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Every time a story like this comes out, there are always a few morons whining about how we're always critical of Microsoft, and we speak badly of them no matter what they do, blah blah blah. Some of them are even venturing to say that it's because we all know free software is inferior and can't match Microsoft products in quality.
So we don't like poor old Microsoft. No matter what they do, it has an evil motive. Where do you suppose we got that idea? Did we wake up one day and say to ourselves, "Let's find a company and try to make them look as bad as we can. Hmm, Microsoft sounds like a good choice"?
No! The reason we think Microsoft is always planning something evil is because history shows that Microsoft is always planning something evil! Well, that's certainly a funny reason to doubt their motives!
Those of you who keep coming to Microsoft's defense, who keep telling us to leave the innocent, misunderstood corporation alone, do you really think they've never done anything wrong? Do you truly believe in your hearts that Microsoft is doing something like this out of pure generosity?
And to those of you who keep calling it silly for Microsoft to compete with "free" software, what on earth don't you understand about "free speech, not free beer"?
Hey folks, keep in mind, Microsoft is a company. They have a responsibility, a legal responsibility, to benefit their shareholders to the maximum extent possible. Understanding they are in for the long haul, they are choosing to perform philanthropic efforts in order to better their reputation. In addition, they get the side effect of a larger user base.
If, as some seem to think, they even had the option of being "purely" philanthropic, as in doing something that had absolutely no benefit for them, not even a bit of good PR, doing so would violate their responsibilities to the shareholders.
Now, are there a few (many?) people employed at Microsoft who truly believe they have a good product line and are truly happy that the company is doing this? Heck yeah. But the motivation of the "company" is and must always be to satisfy shareholders.
Do I doubt the motives of their largesse? Not really... they're pretty clear. But what are we trying to accomplish, here? In criticizing this, the (free|open source) software world simply looks bad.
Generally, society tends to be happy enough when charitable contributions are made; scrutinizing the donors for their motives is just puritannical. If non-profits benefit, according to their own definition of 'benefit', that's good. Complaining about it allows writers to lead articles with lines like "Even when the Microsoft Corporation attempts to do good, its critics distrust its motives," and discount open source people as too partisan to be taken seriously. "Michelle Murrain, a member of the Nonprofit Open Source Initiative in Amherst, Mass., says that if Microsoft gives away Windows for a few years, nonprofit groups may be less likely to use free, open-source software." Great. We're complaining about charity because it doesn't benefit us.
On top of which, none of the arguments put forth are particularly convincing. Murrain says, "Microsoft could throw in all this software for the next two years and then just stop and people will be hooked." Hooked. Okay. As if none of these people had used Windows before. Or as if companies with tight budgets will, in two years' time, be willing to cough up more than they are now, because they've become hopeless Microsoft junkies in the interim.
And Michael Gilbert says, "As a monopoly, Microsoft's below-market-price distribution of software might very well be a form of illegal competition for a particular market." Presumably he's indulging in a bit of theoretical speculation, and doesn't really lack the sense to foresee such a legal claim promptly going down in a ball of flames.
Sometimes it seems that open source people aren't satisfied with the prospect of beating Microsoft... they're offended that Microsoft isn't willing to simply roll over and die. Or at least to provide a stationary target. Better to pick our battles, and keep the focus on all the good software being developed except when there's really something to complain about.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton
I work for a non-profit org that was, in its startup, bankrolled by Microsoft (and some others) in a very, very big way. What I can tell you is that our relationship with Microsoft is currently fluid (as they are nearing the end of their promised obligation to us). So the org I work for is a non-profit that deal specifically with technology in the non-profit sector. I am in a unique position, I get to see many intertesting interactions. But the one that impacts me the most is that, in many cases, the free software that orgs get from Microsoft and other corporate donors is often the only software they can get, and in many cases, the best for their needs. The main need here, which the technology community and most slashdotters don't consider, is that non-profits are not only on the ropes in terms of the technology they have, but supporting and maintaining that technology is a huge problem too. If you want to see a better presence for open source in the non profit community, you need to support nonprofdits with free or extremely cheap support and training on open source solutions. non-profit professionals, like most non-techs, dont want to be technology experts. they are busy feeding people, helping them get off of drugs, and rebuilding the faces of little kids with deformities. take it from me, this is what i do for a living
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
I work for a NPO. We already use Microsoft products - Windows 2000, Office 2000, and Exchange would be the major apps. Due to budgetary constraints, we've decided not to upgrade until the Windows/Office version after the Longhorn release in 2005 (whatever that release may be... ); we started setting aside money for that upgrade in 2001. Budget is the #1 thing on the minds of every executive/manager at an NPO.
FWIW, at an NPO, any $ used comes out of a donation from a charitable person, institution, or corporation, who probably envisioned their donated $ going toward the benefit of whatever community the NPO services; I doubt seriously that most people envision their dontations going straight to Bill Gates & Co. when they sign their names on the check, be it for AIDS research, building homes for the homeless, etc. If MS is willing to provide NPO's with or reduced cost software, the end benefit is that the NPO will have more funds available to help their constituencies.
Oddly enough, I was involved in a discussion of this very topic today!
My mother is an office manager for a "Safety Council"; my wife is an administrator in the American Red Cross. I also worked for a compnay the designed a SQL Server-based databank for the Red Cross.
Both organizations are tied tightly to Microsoft, in part because of the freebies, and in part because of corporate culture. They'd be silly to turn down millions in free software, especially hwne it is the same software they already use.
Do I take the free (as in beer) software that I know, or the free (as in leberty) software that I'll need to retool and retrain my staff for? Add in data conversion and other factors to see why the non-profits drink the Microsoft beer.
I'd rather the Red Cross take free software from Microsoft than have them lay off disaster personnel so they can retrain and retool for "free" software. People don't give a flip about Linux-vs.-Microsoft when their house is spread across three counties.
As for non-profits being "lucrative" -- no organization that relies on donations is lucrative; non-profit means limited budgets.
That's not to say that Microsoft doesn't recognize the benefits of "giving." Perhaps someone at Microsoft gets a warm fuzzy feeling from donating software, and I'm certain that their accountants like the associated tax write-off. But I'm sure it hasn't been lost on Microsoft that giving software to non-profits is both good advertising and good training.
Is Microsoft being Machiavellian? Yes. Does it matter? Probably not.
All about me
Corporations are designed to do one thing, and one thing only: to increase the value of its stock. Only the naive believe that corporations are designed or operate to turn a profit, contribute anything useful to any community, "philanthropize", or anything else. These are solely a means to an end.
The value of a corporation's stock is determined by the demand for that stock (classic supply/demand relationship). This is accomplished by convincing investors that the stock has value (the perception of value is value). This is done by increasing net assets (i.e. improving the balance sheet), paying dividends, etc. etc. One way of doing it is to create the impresion that there is an intangible value in the company; i.e. provide a "return" to the community that some investors might consider valueable and worthy of their support. This explains how corporations can be philanthropic and still be acting in the best interests of the shareholders. (Ignoring the effects of good PR on sales, possible gov't regulation, and other market/operating environment considerations)
Absolutely everything that a corporation does is designed to increase the value of its stock. Anything else would be in violation of the duty of the officers of the company to its shareholders.
It is an error to think about corporations with the same "mental template" that you use to thing about people; they do not "think" in the same way; rather, corporations "think" more like simpler forms of life; almost like a program (really, like a program with the introduced factor of human error). A corporation being philanthropic is less like a person being philanthropic, more like those ants that keep and feed aphids for food.
Bottom line: Corporations give gifts, not out of concience, or goodwill, but from a perception of self benefit of some sort.
Some companies operate entirely to maximize the implicit derived from philanthropy, such as charities that are organized as corps, etc.
This is why corporations act without conscience. You think that environmentally friendly companies are so because they care about the environment? Yeah, right. They act that way for legal, PR, or other reasons (but they will sure as hell claim to care, for the very same reasons).
Granted, my attitude about corps is very, um, clinical (?); and granted, this holds true less for smaller companies, or, more correctly, companies that are controlled more by their own stockholders (i.e. the mom and pop shop where the shareholders are, in fact, the officers of the company), because in this situation, their duties are to themselves, so they can operate in a fashion that they deem to have the most value.
But I think you will find that the stark portrayal of companies is more accurate than most would like to believe when describing large, especially publicly traded companies.
My point is, given a proper understanding of how corporations operate; the question of "Are company A's actions philanthropy, or self-promoting" is really a question without meaning; It's like asking if the ocean is full of water, or is it full of dihydrogen oxide?"; the question arises from a misunderstanding of the definition of "philanthropy" in the context of corporate operations.
It's even worse than that. They're essentially getting to pay the $10 in gift certificates to be used to buy their own products, whose marginal cost is nearly nil. So in reality they're paying more like $.20 for the $100, in a way that amounts to an investment in their own future market share.
This whole fiasco is absolutely proving me right on this one - I've said all along that expecting the government to reign in microsoft was naïve at best. Fox, hen house...
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
"What do you think? Is it true philanthropy or just another tactic to assimilate everyone into the MS collective?"
Umm... Is this a trick question?
Damiano
--the non profits have choices-accept, not accept, or just keep using what they already have perhaps, not get sucked into upgrading cycles. Here on slashdot, you also have a choice, in your user preferences, you can de select the microsoft articles, can't you? If they are burdensome? You can also keep the articles, then go to the link, read the entire article, then skip the commentary where the bashing might be offensive. Lot of choices there.
Now, because this is a forum and anyone may post their views, I would say, yes, microsoft deserves bashing. They have been proven many times to be highly predatory, to use questionable and illegal business tactics, and now, combined with all the other articles, you can plainly see they are afraid of open source and free software. They simply have no way in the future to keep making mega profits unless they maintain their mindshare. Them giving away "free" software that is in essence almost zero cost to them to make copies of, and getting "tax breaks" for that, is yet again another example of a deseperation move on their part, because they can SEE mindshare evaporating on them, daily now. They are big, powerful, so enamored of themselves they border on megalomaina, but buried inside them they are terrorized now. They waited too long. There was just one worm too many, one virus too many, open source and really free software has gotten too good. If I can be punny they lost their "window of opprtunity" for the new century already, they waited just too long. They have few options left, this is one of them. I expect them to be forced into dropping prices across the board soon. You could see this coming 3 years ago clearly. Right now, yes, still a big company, making profits, this is not likely to continue for much longer.
Tell you a story, I owned two different studebakers, when they were still a big company. Times change, don't they?
It may take awhile, but microsoft is on it's way back down to a much smaller and much less important company. All it will take is a few of the top retailers to have already installed linux on machines at the retail level that most people get exposed to, and wham, that's it. Add in some more governments, a few big other corporations. It'll happen.
You don't see many people switching back to microsoft, once they really start using linux, and it used to be macintosh. It just doesn't happen,but you will see people switching away, oine here, one there, a thousand here, ten thousand there. So microsoft has no choice now, like these car companies out there. 0% interest and cash back and all sorts of things they weren't offering just a few years ago. Business changes, times change, reality changes. Microsoft will increasingly just be forced to give it away,give it away, keep sweetning the pot, until they are free as well, if they want to stay in any sort of business, until there's a leveling, then it will be down to the concepts of useability and service versus useability and service. Paid-for software is dying out, and fast, except for custom in house written. The OS in particular.
Now if they were REALLY smart, they could shock the world, change overnight, and give it all away, just offer paid-for service plans at a reasonable rate, with automatic free upgrades. They are so used to making money the easy way, they have no conception of this as a business model, whereas with linux et al it's about the *whole* business model, which is *what most people think it's worth*.
This is just like the music business hanging onto to last centuries business model, doomed to failure unless they change with the times. And the reason WHY is that code or sounds or pictures are so EASILY copied and distributed now, there's no absolute reason to charge these huge amounts of money. You retail based on low volume, high profit, or huge volume, low profit, or service, and THAT'S IT, that's all business can offer..
Microsoft leveraged themselves into a near monopoly, charged a premium, then stopped producing like the
$1 billion annually
Would that be at full retail price? And what would be the level of the tax benefit claimed, considering that the cost to Microsoft is roughly $0.00 per piece, if you round it down.
And for the charities: what price pain?
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
> I doubt they're giving away much software,
Guess again. Our library received a bunch of stuff from GLF. The hardware was underpowered Gateway e series boxes struggling to run NT4 with only 64MB of RAM and was loaded with just about every title in the Microsoft catalog. The only 'third party' product supplied was Apple Quicktime and that was only because some of the Microsoft educational software required it. And I'd bet they counted the MSRP on each and every title.
And of course it was all licensed under a special 'donation edition' license that provided for zero upgrade rights and disallowed any transfer. Basically, the first hit was free but we were expected to pay full (well full education rate) price if we wanted to upgrade in the future.
Joke was on them though, jacked the ram in those cowboxes and installed RedHat as soon as our commitment[1] was completed and they are still in service five years on with only a pair of hard drives and one monitor croaking out of 22 boxes. So while we didn't use it as intended, we are happy to have got in on that program.
[1] We got extra hardware by agreeing to host a regional training center so we couldn't blow off NT until that was over. They didn't impose a requirement to run Windows as a general condition.
Democrat delenda est
I think the question should really be "Does it matter?" I can't speak for anyone else who uses Free/Open Source Software, but I did not start using it just to "kill Microsoft."
/. and complain that the Big Bad Evil Empire(tm) is being sneaky.
Now, I'm no big fan of MS, but even if they give everything they make away for free for the next 10 years (which I believe they have the cash on hand to do...), I will not trade in my Linux box. I believe the Bazaar model will win, in time, not because it is cheaper, or trendy, but because it simply makes more sense.
But I'm not on a mission to force FS/OSS down everyone's throat, either. Face it, many of these non-profit groups don't have a geek on hand, and the "gift," strings attached or not, will help them do good for the community they support.
If you don't want to see your favorite charity using MS software, get active! Volunteer at their center to install and support their software. Don't sit on
And if, by some miracle, MS suddenly starts giving away all of their software for free, opens their file formats for all to use, cleans up their security, kills off their bugs, becomes a responsible member of society, and everybody's best friend in the software world, didn't we win after all?
"Just another damned fool idealistic crusader..."
Linux is free, now MS is giving away it's stuff for free. What's the problem? It sounds like people are getting lots of free software to me.
Does it still count as philanthropy if you give away a crappy product?
___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
I'm not attempting to pass judgement on whether such a donation would be good or bad, just asking the question of whether it's legal in light of MS's current conviction.
And I encourage people to use Linux. And I think people should at least consider changing. But I recognize that Linux is not for everyone. Probably not my parents. Nor lots of other people. I do encourage organizations to use linux when possible. I think if users spent the time to learn another system it would be better for them - and probably much better for the organization as they'd have more options for the future.
Do I hate Microsoft and wish that they'd just go away? No. I dislike their OS's. I dislike their Office suite (to be fair, I don't like Open Office much either). But for most people MS may be the only viable alternative - because they've already bought in to MS, learned how to use Office and Outlook and IE and all - and they're unwilling to learn anything new.
But I also feel very uncomfortable indeed with the idea that MS has a stranglehold on software. I don't want to have to pay for a Windows OS with my computer that I don't want to use. I don't want to find myself stuck with a video card that Linux can't use because the only drivers are for Windows. I really dislike getting MS Word format email. I get very frustrated when there is software written for Windows and the Mac and only a second rate version for Linux (though more and more frequently the Linux version is better than the others). I think the "update office every year" marketing ploy is pretty sleazy (and very clever). I get quite annoyed at the web pages that work on IE only. I've heard personally from people whose companies were destroyed by MS's corporate slash and burn strategies. And so on. And the assumption that "All the world's running Windows" helps to create just those situations.
So, yes. I admit it. Over the years I've developed a dislike of MS which has become fairly intense. And lots of linux people I know have come to feel the same way for much the same reasons. And I've also come to find that most seriously pro-MS people have a stake in MS of one sort or another. Whats yours?
Now - to respond to your comments :
company doesn't have to choose to use microsoft products
Not true in most cases. Most of the time companies have already purchased computers with Windows and Office installed and hired some MSCE types to run them. Changing systems would piss off the MSCE guys big time so they'll resist like hell. It would scare most of the users so they'll resist like hell. Microsoft will resist like hell. The organization will have to worry about changeover costs. If you say they don't have to choose MS, you demonstrate just a bit of ignorance. The pressures to use MS are immense - almost to the point where there is no viable choice.
MS is easy to use
Completely untrue. (I hope I'm not quoting out of context - but I'm not sure what the context was - your sentence got a bit confused there.) With the possible exception of the Mac, most computer systems are difficult to use and to learn. But all the users are taught MS by default (because MS has an effective monopoly on end user computer software), so users think its easy. They only remember enough of the learning process to know they don't want to do it again.
When they say $1 Billion, do they mean what the software would sell for in retail? Or do they mean what it actually costs to manufacture it? At a few cents per CD, that's probably enough to cover the planet in Windoze install disks. (Take *that*, AOL!)
"Screw causalilty!" -- Prof. Farnsworth
... that Microsoft software represents values not consistent with their stated mission, they can refuse the donation, I'm sure.
Is the fact that competion generally reduces prices "good" this week or "bad"? How about choice? Good or no?
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Writers get in shape by pumping irony.
The reality of software is that you own nothing other than the right to use. Free software you also do not own, however you are free to learn how to copy, change, and publish its functions, sell fair copy of your own software for its OS, if it has value. There is a big difference in philosophy. You can bet there will be no free use of any core developement software given away by Microsoft.
The very last thing on earth that Microsoft wants is people to be hired or learn to write regional appropriate interfaces. The real reason Microsoft is giving the use of its software away to third world countries is that it needs beta testers for language releases. You can bet your bottom dollar that the bug reports, spelling errors, reports of ill conceived interface naming, etc in many languages is one of the biggest benefits Microsoft is looking for in return.
The real threat to Microsoft comes from Unixses in the Orient, and to some extent eastern Europe where Linux and Unix have a big head start, especially in the Universities. Go to just about any eastern University and you will find Unix culture. Microsoft is a late comer to the University culture of the world, it is flexing its North America centric world view with its dollars and is in for a big suprise. The so called third world is not as backward as one here is taught to believe. Most of the best programmers are coming from India and many can C and Assembley code the Dickens out 99% of the info college Dot Net Visual Studio hackers, working in IS the US.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Any user of a current GNU/Linux distro knows that Microsoft software is lacking. Everyone needs to store, manipulate and exchange information. Microsoft formats and tools get in the way of all three needs by ignoring published standards and best practices. No one needs Microsoft tools except people who use Microsoft tools. Free software offers a tremendous selection of tools that do all of the above without crashing, with ease and platform independence.
The bigger picture story that John missed is a history of dumping software to defeat competition and then gouging the victims. Microsoft has pushed it's software on influential groups forever. Each "market" has been tiny, but the cumulative effect has been much larger. Witness past efforts to woo business students and the effect on corporate america. Now that they are hooked, here comes License 6. Microsoft is constanly "giving away" software to public shcools and at universities to keep the learning curve up. Yet the BSA has extorted hundreds of thousands of dollars from those same schools. He saw the Apple complaint but was unable to place it in it's propper perspective.
M$ has made it difficult to own a computer without their software on it. By vendor manipulation, you STILL can't buy a computer from a "mainstream" vendor without the latest and greatest M$ junk on it. Because free software answers all sofware needs at a lower price, this directly contradicts normal market forces. Microsoft has tried to make it hard to build a PC yourself and take advantage of the cost differential. John should look up. Microsoft's "Naked PC" campaign. He might also investigate the Microsoft Server market and think hard about the implications of IE only services for banks, government and professional offices. With that kind of perspecitve he can examine this new round of charity give aways.
Microsoft is trying to insure that those who ordinarilly can't afford a computer will get one with a M$ OS on it and may have ambitions for state sponsorship. The market is huge. Computers are becoming a necessity, and about half of the US does not have one in their home. Think what this means to efforts to eradicate the "digital devide". First come private charities, then come public, tax payer funded ones. The influential market now are are charities and governement offices. It's not new. Remember the US post office adverts for M$ that occured before the anti-trust suit was settled? Most government offices run M$, except a very few bright ones, in effect this is a government subsidy. The new potential market is going to see Microsoft and be influenced by people Microsoft is doing it's best to treat well. With enough encouragment and Astroturfing, the public might ask for M$ junk as part of the social safety net. It's perposterous when free software is available at no cost.
Those that take the bait will be punished in the end. If the public school model is followed, we can expect the BSA will visit tomorrow those who trusted Microsft today. They have already had a talk with the United Way. All of us will pay if M$ makes themselves the standard welfare computer.
John, get in touch with your local Linux User Group. Chances are they will set you up and be very happy to chat with you. You would be amazed at
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I know most people don't study or have a clue about business on /., so let me challenge your conspiracy theory with, "No, MS can not get a tax writeoff for a $1000 Windows Server License", simply because a tax writeoff has to do with cost, not potential revenue.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Read the subject. Everyone who is asking the (dumb) question here, "How can you undercut a free product by giving away something for free?" has failed to realize one thing: Windows is still easier to use than Linux. Period.
If you don't agree with this then you're a real Linux zealot, or you just have no clue how actual non-technical users think and work with computers. Don't feel bad, I've fallen into the same fantasy several times. But every time I set a real user down in front of a Linux machine, I realize yet again that Linux has a long way to go. You cannot, I say again, you CANNOT find a Linux distro to this day that is truly the equivalent to Windows in terms of making your computer easy to work with. (The closest is probably Xandros, with its proprietary file manager.)
I can think of a lot of examples but one of the biggest ones in my mind is the fact that Linux makes it so damn complicated to work with all the different drives attached to your system. In Windows, if you attach an external Firewire or USB storage device, or anything else for that matter, it will first be installed and from then on it will automagically appear in the file manager. I have yet to find the equivalent behaviour in any Linux program or desktop environment.
Oh, and you'd like to eject a disk? Sorry, as long as a single obscure, hidden application or daemon is still messing with that drive, you can't unmount it (a totally foreign concept to most people) and thus you can't eject it. Supermount? I'm sorry, but supermount is still a total pain in the ass. I'm using Mandrake 9.1 and I have once again disabled supermount in favor of regular mount options. It just doesn't work the way a human needs it to work. It doesn't even approach the ease with which you can eject a disk in any Windows environment. Yes, I know it's unsafe, but it's EASY, and that's what non-techies care about.
I could fill a book with other usability problems with Linux and its various desktop environments. It's not just the fact that people have used Windows for years. Windows really is still easier to use in so many ways. That doesn't even bring in the application and device compatibility issues.
Last but not least, non-techies either don't know about, or don't care about, the hole they will be digging themselves into by accepting and using proprietary software to create all their documents, thus practically chaining themselves to the Beast from Redmond. They just don't care. They have actual lives and actual work to do, and they don't feel that any of this is important, if they're even aware of it at all.
All this adds up to exactly why "Free Windows" can definitely undercut "Free Linux". Because it's not just about the numbers on the price tag.
Personally, I don't think giving away software should really count as a donation. If they really wanted to be charitable, they'd give out support contracts with the software.
why do school kids get their first bit of dope for free?
The way I see it, OSS is making software available for free whether it be directly or indirectly. Whatever Microsoft's motives may be, they'd probably be much less inclined to donate this much software at no cost if OSS hadn't pressured them into doing so. At the end of the day, these organizations are still able to save some money. What's wrong with that? It's not like this is going to make OSS disappear. We'll just have to polish our software up if we want these organizations to use our software in light of other free alternatives.
Let me tell how it really is -- I'm the Director of I.T. for an NYC-based non-profit, high-end, very prominent. Your comments about MS hurting me more are pretty offensive, and wofeully uninformed. By the way, I'm a UNIX guy, I've been an admin, an engineer, all the way since 0.99pl4 so you're preaching to the choir about open source. But reality is different.
In the non-profit world, budgets are so slim as to be non-existent. You're working on yesterday's technology (for the most part), you cobble together what you can. But there are certain things that all non-profits must have, the basic "office services" that we all take for granted. But these places don't have them, they have a bastardised collection of w98 and w95 and god forbid novell on dos desktops, all somehow strung together with a chain of ancient hubs, etc. You get the picture. We as IT guys in these places have very little resources, both in terms of people and time - oh and the previously mentioned money. We need MAXIMUM bang for the buck.
As a UNIX zealot I already know that with OSS/Linux/*NIX there's nothing better than a free lunch. But - I also have 75 people in the office who know absolutely nothing about computers except to click Send/Receive and read their email, or use the Outlook calendar. Believe me, if I had the time and the resources to build and deploy my own Linux desktops, I'd do it - oh god would I do it. But I have to face cold, hard facts and the fact is that as an IT guy at a non-profit I have to give as much with as little as I get, and that little is the "Microsoft Office environment" and goddamnit thats what these people know, and its what they expect and it's all they'll ever know.
Having said that - the money that I don't have to spend on Microsoft Office and the various OS' that I need to run it on are ALWAYS used (at least anywhere that I work) on as many servers as possible to run the important stuff -- stuff like intranets running apache & php, monitoring with netsaint, my sendmail relay, my free/swan VPN - don't get me wrong. There is more than a huge void in the non-profit world where OSS could be used, and should be. And the more progressive IT people do I think head in that direction.
But the fact is that the non-profit will always be strapped for cash, and more importantly IT staff and time. And thats why a full *NIX adoption would always be difficult in that environment, along with the "standard" of MS Office being important in such a creative environment, with many files being passed in and out to such non-technical people. That said, the foresight and generosity of OSS folk and their beliefs and awesome software are appreciated by the more foresight-friendly non-profit IT guys.
I don't dispute that MS ultimately profits from their donations -- just look at the other side of the coin before you say the non-profits are being hurt, dude.
A lot of these Microsoft "donations" are not pure software donations. Rather, Microsoft donates money but imposes obligations that effectively require the recipient to buy a lot of Microsoft products in the market. That kind of "donation" may end up being tax deductible.
Hey, there is a long tradition of that. The US does something similar with foreign aid, "giving away" billions of dollars but requiring purchases of US goods and services.