Mwongozi was one of many readers to note that "the NY Times is reporting Justin's resignation from Nullsoft, and more details can be found in his weblog. One has to wonder whether this has anything to do with the WASTE fiasco."
I don't understand why its taken 4 years for this to happen. The guy obviously is not suited for corporate coding and when it comes to money I would think he's pretty well off. Having the legal backing of a big corporation might be nice but not if all they do is pull your code to avoid doing anything.
-Eyston
Re:Slashdot won't like this but...
by
Planesdragon
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· Score: 5, Insightful
I guess I didn't embrace the dot bomb generation or something. I can't generate any feeling of respect for a "company executive" that runs a weblog and moans about corporate issues publicly. It just isn't professional.
Executives don't write software.
He is, at worst, a software programmer who manages a division. In the software world--especially the free software world--keeping a weblog and being honest in it have come to be hallmarks of a professional.
Re:Good riddance :P
by
tyllwin
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Ah, yes, but while at Nullsoft, he was (well, still is for the moment) getting handsomely paid to express himself through code. Open-source hacking may be better for the community, but it don't pay the bills.
Good for him
by
Arbogast_II
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· Score: 5, Insightful
It is always a pleasure to see a person who realizes a good life is more important than money!
Maybe AOL's mgmt wanted to shift Winamp to a pay for or adware product.
I never liked it when they proudly boasted that there were NO ADS! and it was FREE!
--
-- dK... Narf Poit!
Re:One doesn't have to wonder...
by
tsetem
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Just because he released it under the GPL doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. If all of the code he writes is owned by AOL, then AOL, as the copyright holder, must determine the license it's released under.
Don't know how serious this may be, but if AOL wanted to, they might be able to sue for loss of IP due to the dumpage of WASTE into the GPL realm. That's the real bitch when you write code for a company. Unless you beg & plead with the lawyers (or your managers) to give you a little freedom, they own your stuff.
And this leads right into non-compete clauses in your contract. Even thinking about the code you wrote for another company could be considered competing against your previous employer.
Re:Slashdot won't like this but...
by
SubtleNuance
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· Score: 5, Insightful
it just isn't professional.
You know what, im sick of this 'unprofessional' trash. "Professional" is inhuman. Usually, any act of honesty is described as 'unprofessional' Im tired of my personal relations being filtered through the Blanket-of-Commerce that requires people to be a cog or a tool.
I could care less that a person was 'unprofessional' -- because a person's character is not defined by how well he conforms to his employers view of how best to achieve profit.
Justin has grown tired of being a wage-slave -- so have I.. I just dont have the resources to buy life back from my Corporate Masters just yet...
Your code is your kids...
by
malakai
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· Score: 5, Insightful
can't imagine that he was being paid that badly, either. Most people would kill to get bought out by AOL (or Microsoft for that matter), so what's wrong with taking the money and leaving it to the college students to write the piracy apps?
seriously. Money is great, I like money, it pays the rent and lets me do what i want half the year. But if all I did was "nothing" I would not be happy. Coding makes me happy. I'm sure coding a app like WASTE for Justin made him happy.
I feel there are at minimum two kind of coders out there right now. Type A joined the ranks because they want to make money. They could have easily done something else. Most were drawn into the big bright light of the Internet boom. They want to code from 9 to 5pm, and then be done. They expect to move into mangement at some point, and consider coding a menial task that can be pushed down the ranks.
Type X started coding because someting intially didn't do what they wanted it to do. This led to coding addiction, consuming massive amounts of dry reading material, working crazy hours, but always coming back to the keyboard like the crack head to his pipe. The irony is, in present economy, Type X makes the money, and the Type A is trying to learn another skill, move to project management, go back to school and get a degress in business...etc..etc.
When you can afford most of the things you want, why is WASTE so important?
It's his baby. You'll understand if you ever code a baby of your own.
Having said all this, I think I would have fought it out until they fired me. but not knowing his legal/contractual situation resigning may be his best bet.
Re:One doesn't have to wonder...
by
2logic
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· Score: 5, Insightful
If it could only be that simple...
You have to remember that NullSoft is a subsidary of AOL Time Warner. Which probably means that Justin is under contract from Nullsoft and not AOL.
He probably has pretty much all the control over what he can do with what Nullsoft creates. The problem is probably in the contract that binds Nullsoft to AOL. I think that indirectly, Justin's code is owned by AOL, but since Nullsoft is an entity of its own, it can do many things on its own: creating software, releasing code, being a pain for AOL, etc... BUT only to some extent, because Nullsoft is a subsidary of (or controlled by) AOL.
So it's probably not just a matter of a simple contract between an employer and its employees... It goes deeper than that I'm afraid.
-- // TODO
Re:Why did this take so long?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Was that $86 million in Cash or AOL shares? If it was in cash, he's sitting pretty. If it was in AOL shares, he'll probally need a new job and fast.
Last thing we need, another unemployed programmer on the market. Quit in this economy?! The fool.
It amazes me
by
darthtuttle
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· Score: 5, Insightful
I'm always amazed when people get in to business deals, the deal turns out badly, they are forced to move on (for personal convictions, or through corporate moves) and they are amazed and suprised!
Frankel sold out to AOL. He made a LOT of money doing it, but he should (and maybe did) understand the price of that money is freedom. AOL controls Winamp, and as long as he's an employee they control much of his actions and ability to publish.
Were I him I would have not published anything new until the contract requirements to stay with the company were over, then I'd leave and start a new company with all the money. I'm sure his share of 86 million, after taxes could start a new company to do new things.
If you value your life based on what you have done, then investors and selling out is often a bad idea. You are selling control over the products you have created. If on the other hand you value your life based on what your able to do going forward, take the 86 million, walk away from one software product and do something new. Sure, it's a PITA, but 86 million funds a lot of new things. If nothing else you could probably manage a half million a year from investment (even in this market) and live off that while writing new software and paying a buddy or two to write with you. There's bound to be a new idea in there somewhere that will start another company that sells for twice as much, which gives you more allowance, and so on.
It's all personal values.
--
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
Justin, if you're reading this...
by
crashnbur
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· Score: 5, Insightful
It's been a good run and, for what it's worth, Nullsoft has generated some of the niftiest and most useful programs I have ever used... Winamp, Sex, then SafeSex, and several of your utilities. I learned quite a bit by examining the code of some of Nullsoft's creations. Thanks for all you've done for the Internet community, and best of luck on your future endeavors. I hope to see your name applied to a new development project in the not-too-distant future...
Huh, dont follow you amigo
by
Arbogast_II
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· Score: 5, Insightful
I am a long time gardener. I hardly have a large income.
Money has little to do with happiness. Unhappy people are unhappy with or without material possessions in most cases.
The man has chosen a wise path, placing his own life ahead of maximizing financial gain at any cost. I dont know the man, but I would bet he is in a much better position in life now. There is a shortage of people following their own life path in this world, and an oversupply of sheep mindlessly plodding along.
As to saying it is easier because he is wealthy, I disagree. Because he is wealthy, it is EASIER for him to get trapped in a world where only money matters, making the choice more difficult.
--
HenryJamesFeltus.com
Another thought on this
by
SolemnDragon
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Money is like health: Having it doesn't mean that you're definitely happy, but not having much of it greatly increases your odds of being unhappy.
There are poor people who are happy and rich who are unhappy. there are also starving people who are too busy looking for something to eat to discuss the question, and rich people who really do enjoy their lives and give back to the community. IANAM (i am not a millionaire) far far far FAR from it in fact, but i think that a person should choose their own path in such a way that it preferably doesn't leave them starving and gives them enough that they can share. And to do this by ethical means in the American culture is sometimes difficult, yes, but a good thing to aim for.
Will leaving make his life better? Probably. Will it make him poorer? In the short run, probably. In the long run, probably not- if he has the skills, there will be a way to apply them, and hopefully in an environment which better suits his temperament. Mind you, this is coming from someone who works a day job unrelated to any of her interests (but not against my ethics) in order to stay solvent. For the moment, it's where i'm at. I couldn't imagine doing it for the rest of my life, however.
May we all have jobs that we can live for, enough to live on and to share, and the good sense to appreciate both??
It's just DOT COM-ism
by
sleeper0
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Everyone all upset about aol (aka the man) keeping justin down should consider this:
june 1, 1999: aol buys nullsoft for $86m
june 2, 2003: justin announces resignation due to creative differences
For those who can't connect the dots, he had a 4 year stock vesting schedule. Justin didn't have enough trouble with his free expression while his stock was still vesting, but now that it's done he suddenly feels the pangs of regret for working for the corporate machine.
There's nothing wrong with leaving after your contracts are up, but why not be a man about it? Releasing a ton of code you don't own under the GPL (and indeed, has code in it that can't be released this way due to RSA copyright) and yamering on in public about your former employer is at best pretty immature.
Justin obviously made out quite well selling a media player for nearly $100m. Anyone that's followed the ups and extreme downs of the industry knows that its unlikely nullsoft was ever worth that big of a price tag. Why not exit out of the situation gracefully and be thankful for the luck he had in getting the deal instead of granstanding for your hacker friends.
Re:Anything to do with Waste...
by
Sacarino
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Keep in mind that the guy is only 24. At ~19 he hit the jackpot with a "for fun" MP3 player -- a trivial app (see all the MP3 players on FreshMeat).
Alright, I'll bite.
Perhaps you weren't around when WinAMP was in it's infancy. I remember only one other player that even came CLOSE to the stability WinAMP provided. I even registered my copy with Nullsoft, back when it was shareware. It's not like you had "all the MP3 players on FreshMeat" to choose from. It was either WinAMP or it's crappy runner-up. Couple that with the fact that WinAMP was a) skinnable, b) had some badass graphical features, and c) impressed non-geeks. It also extended mp3 support with some attempts at backward compatability.
I know it's been a while, but computers used to be slow. WinAMP would play on a 95 box running on a 486/dx2. That's IMPRESSIVE, my friend. You couldn't do jack-shit else while it was playing or it'd skip, but the fact that it would play this fancy new MP3 format that only took a couple megs for a song was nice. It made people take notice. What did you do that ranks anywhere near that? I know that crap I did in Comp Sci & Eng didn't land me anything like the deal he made for himself. I don't think he got lucky at all, he saw a need and he wrote something that took care of said need.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't understand why its taken 4 years for this to happen. The guy obviously is not suited for corporate coding and when it comes to money I would think he's pretty well off. Having the legal backing of a big corporation might be nice but not if all they do is pull your code to avoid doing anything.
-Eyston
I guess I didn't embrace the dot bomb generation or something. I can't generate any feeling of respect for a "company executive" that runs a weblog and moans about corporate issues publicly. It just isn't professional.
Executives don't write software.
He is, at worst, a software programmer who manages a division. In the software world--especially the free software world--keeping a weblog and being honest in it have come to be hallmarks of a professional.
Ah, yes, but while at Nullsoft, he was (well, still is for the moment) getting handsomely paid to express himself through code. Open-source hacking may be better for the community, but it don't pay the bills.
It is always a pleasure to see a person who realizes a good life is more important than money!
HenryJamesFeltus.com
Maybe AOL's mgmt wanted to shift Winamp to a pay for or adware product.
I never liked it when they proudly boasted that there were NO ADS! and it was FREE!
-- dK
Don't know how serious this may be, but if AOL wanted to, they might be able to sue for loss of IP due to the dumpage of WASTE into the GPL realm. That's the real bitch when you write code for a company. Unless you beg & plead with the lawyers (or your managers) to give you a little freedom, they own your stuff.
And this leads right into non-compete clauses in your contract. Even thinking about the code you wrote for another company could be considered competing against your previous employer.
it just isn't professional.
You know what, im sick of this 'unprofessional' trash. "Professional" is inhuman. Usually, any act of honesty is described as 'unprofessional' Im tired of my personal relations being filtered through the Blanket-of-Commerce that requires people to be a cog or a tool.
I could care less that a person was 'unprofessional' -- because a person's character is not defined by how well he conforms to his employers view of how best to achieve profit.
Justin has grown tired of being a wage-slave -- so have I.. I just dont have the resources to buy life back from my Corporate Masters just yet...
seriously. Money is great, I like money, it pays the rent and lets me do what i want half the year. But if all I did was "nothing" I would not be happy. Coding makes me happy. I'm sure coding a app like WASTE for Justin made him happy.
I feel there are at minimum two kind of coders out there right now. Type A joined the ranks because they want to make money. They could have easily done something else. Most were drawn into the big bright light of the Internet boom. They want to code from 9 to 5pm, and then be done. They expect to move into mangement at some point, and consider coding a menial task that can be pushed down the ranks.
Type X started coding because someting intially didn't do what they wanted it to do. This led to coding addiction, consuming massive amounts of dry reading material, working crazy hours, but always coming back to the keyboard like the crack head to his pipe. The irony is, in present economy, Type X makes the money, and the Type A is trying to learn another skill, move to project management, go back to school and get a degress in business...etc..etc.
It's his baby. You'll understand if you ever code a baby of your own.
Having said all this, I think I would have fought it out until they fired me. but not knowing his legal/contractual situation resigning may be his best bet.
-malakai
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
You have to remember that NullSoft is a subsidary of AOL Time Warner. Which probably means that Justin is under contract from Nullsoft and not AOL.
He probably has pretty much all the control over what he can do with what Nullsoft creates. The problem is probably in the contract that binds Nullsoft to AOL. I think that indirectly, Justin's code is owned by AOL, but since Nullsoft is an entity of its own, it can do many things on its own: creating software, releasing code, being a pain for AOL, etc... BUT only to some extent, because Nullsoft is a subsidary of (or controlled by) AOL.
So it's probably not just a matter of a simple contract between an employer and its employees... It goes deeper than that I'm afraid.
// TODO
Was that $86 million in Cash or AOL shares? If it was in cash, he's sitting pretty. If it was in AOL shares, he'll probally need a new job and fast.
Last thing we need, another unemployed programmer on the market. Quit in this economy?! The fool.
I'm always amazed when people get in to business deals, the deal turns out badly, they are forced to move on (for personal convictions, or through corporate moves) and they are amazed and suprised!
Frankel sold out to AOL. He made a LOT of money doing it, but he should (and maybe did) understand the price of that money is freedom. AOL controls Winamp, and as long as he's an employee they control much of his actions and ability to publish.
Were I him I would have not published anything new until the contract requirements to stay with the company were over, then I'd leave and start a new company with all the money. I'm sure his share of 86 million, after taxes could start a new company to do new things.
If you value your life based on what you have done, then investors and selling out is often a bad idea. You are selling control over the products you have created. If on the other hand you value your life based on what your able to do going forward, take the 86 million, walk away from one software product and do something new. Sure, it's a PITA, but 86 million funds a lot of new things. If nothing else you could probably manage a half million a year from investment (even in this market) and live off that while writing new software and paying a buddy or two to write with you. There's bound to be a new idea in there somewhere that will start another company that sells for twice as much, which gives you more allowance, and so on.
It's all personal values.
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
It's been a good run and, for what it's worth, Nullsoft has generated some of the niftiest and most useful programs I have ever used... Winamp, Sex, then SafeSex, and several of your utilities. I learned quite a bit by examining the code of some of Nullsoft's creations. Thanks for all you've done for the Internet community, and best of luck on your future endeavors. I hope to see your name applied to a new development project in the not-too-distant future...
I am a long time gardener. I hardly have a large income.
Money has little to do with happiness. Unhappy people are unhappy with or without material possessions in most cases.
The man has chosen a wise path, placing his own life ahead of maximizing financial gain at any cost. I dont know the man, but I would bet he is in a much better position in life now. There is a shortage of people following their own life path in this world, and an oversupply of sheep mindlessly plodding along.
As to saying it is easier because he is wealthy, I disagree. Because he is wealthy, it is EASIER for him to get trapped in a world where only money matters, making the choice more difficult.
HenryJamesFeltus.com
There are poor people who are happy and rich who are unhappy. there are also starving people who are too busy looking for something to eat to discuss the question, and rich people who really do enjoy their lives and give back to the community. IANAM (i am not a millionaire) far far far FAR from it in fact, but i think that a person should choose their own path in such a way that it preferably doesn't leave them starving and gives them enough that they can share. And to do this by ethical means in the American culture is sometimes difficult, yes, but a good thing to aim for.
Will leaving make his life better? Probably. Will it make him poorer? In the short run, probably. In the long run, probably not- if he has the skills, there will be a way to apply them, and hopefully in an environment which better suits his temperament. Mind you, this is coming from someone who works a day job unrelated to any of her interests (but not against my ethics) in order to stay solvent. For the moment, it's where i'm at. I couldn't imagine doing it for the rest of my life, however.
May we all have jobs that we can live for, enough to live on and to share, and the good sense to appreciate both??
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Everyone all upset about aol (aka the man) keeping justin down should consider this:
june 1, 1999: aol buys nullsoft for $86m
june 2, 2003: justin announces resignation due to creative differences
For those who can't connect the dots, he had a 4 year stock vesting schedule. Justin didn't have enough trouble with his free expression while his stock was still vesting, but now that it's done he suddenly feels the pangs of regret for working for the corporate machine.
There's nothing wrong with leaving after your contracts are up, but why not be a man about it? Releasing a ton of code you don't own under the GPL (and indeed, has code in it that can't be released this way due to RSA copyright) and yamering on in public about your former employer is at best pretty immature.
Justin obviously made out quite well selling a media player for nearly $100m. Anyone that's followed the ups and extreme downs of the industry knows that its unlikely nullsoft was ever worth that big of a price tag. Why not exit out of the situation gracefully and be thankful for the luck he had in getting the deal instead of granstanding for your hacker friends.
Keep in mind that the guy is only 24. At ~19 he hit the jackpot with a "for fun" MP3 player -- a trivial app (see all the MP3 players on FreshMeat).
Alright, I'll bite.
Perhaps you weren't around when WinAMP was in it's infancy. I remember only one other player that even came CLOSE to the stability WinAMP provided. I even registered my copy with Nullsoft, back when it was shareware. It's not like you had "all the MP3 players on FreshMeat" to choose from. It was either WinAMP or it's crappy runner-up. Couple that with the fact that WinAMP was a) skinnable, b) had some badass graphical features, and c) impressed non-geeks. It also extended mp3 support with some attempts at backward compatability.
I know it's been a while, but computers used to be slow. WinAMP would play on a 95 box running on a 486/dx2. That's IMPRESSIVE, my friend. You couldn't do jack-shit else while it was playing or it'd skip, but the fact that it would play this fancy new MP3 format that only took a couple megs for a song was nice. It made people take notice. What did you do that ranks anywhere near that? I know that crap I did in Comp Sci & Eng didn't land me anything like the deal he made for himself. I don't think he got lucky at all, he saw a need and he wrote something that took care of said need.
-- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha