Slashdot Mirror
A Model End Vendor License Agreement
Teese writes "Low End Mac is presenting this article as a humor piece, but its vision of an End Vendor License Agreement seems to be pretty well thought out, and one that I wouldn't mind seeing in the real world."
Kinda has a ring to it, but is this practical? I don't see anything like this ever working, but maybe vendors could change the way their EULAs are written.
You should use AdiumX on your Mac.
So, the vendors have to agree to be bound by an agreement?
BUAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!
Pardon me...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
End Vendor License Agreement
.mac and .NET. You must, however, continue to provide the services.
Please read the following and click on I AGREE before accepting my payment for your product.
It is the policy of the LOW END MAC USER GROUP that purchases made by members of the GROUP will only be made if the vendor of the DESIRED PRODUCT agrees to sign and approve the END VENDOR LICENSE AGREEMENT (EVLA), which you are now reading. This EVLA stipulates the following:
1. You (THE VENDOR, heretofore referred to as YOU) cannot sell my name, address, phone number, email address, social security number, model number, serial number, hair color, eye color, weight, height, or any other distinguishing characteristic without specific written permission not obtained through the use of a USER INTERFACE. Permission must be written, signed in ink, no facsimile allowed.
2. You cannot call my home, mail my home, or send email to my email address without my express permission. You must assume, by default, that permission is NOT given at registration.
3. All registration questions for your product must be written in the same format, so when choosing NO for one answer, NO is the default response for all answers.
4. Anything I make with my own computer is my property, and you cannot use if in any form.
5. Any software I install on my computer is my business, and you cannot collect information about the internal contents of my hard drive after I purchase your product.
6. You cannot require me to register a product more than once.
7. All ongoing, recurring registration expenses must be clearly explained at purchase, or I will not pay them. This includes fees for services such as
8. If I tell you that I do not want to register once, once should be enough. Do not ask me again. By clicking on AGREE, you agree never to ask me anything more than once.
9. If I attempt to quit a piece of software, YOU must make sure it does not ask me to verify that command more than once.
10. You must NEVER delete critical posts from your user bulletin boards. You may, however, clump them together.
[AGREE] [WE DONT WANT YOUR BUSINESS]
Violation of any of these conditions indicates your permission for me to stop payment on your product without returning same product, no questions asked.
I would so like that to be seen in the real world. I remember playing Nexus TK back in the day and the EULA was evil, basically said they could kill your account for no reason. Also, my yahoo junk account that I give out to websites when i sign up for stuff yesterday had zero bulk messages, today it had 62. I would kill to have this be real cause I dont want spam and I want to get back at evil compaines.
wtfsig?!11
From the Redmond, WA Garbage Dump: You agree that upon receiving my payment of $199.99 for xp, you will give full control over my computer to me. You agree not to force upgrades, backdoors, or internet explorer at me. You also agree that if my privacy or Fair Use Rights are violated in any way, shape, or form, I have the right to repeal my $199.99 and keep the software at no cost. Bill, please sign below: __________________________
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Not only is this a pretty neat idea that would be great for the consumer, but how nice would it also be to have a EULA that was about the same length? I don't know many people who can actually read an entire Microsoft EULA without going insane. Many good books are shorter than a Mircrosoft EULA.
those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -isaac asimov
If the legal disclaimer leaves a bad taste in your mouth, you might prefer this one: (can you find the new ones from last time? Read carefully, and don't drink anything at the same time) DISCLAIMER (I MEAN IT): This program and documentation reflects the thoughts, opinions, ideas, and body odor of myself; it does not reflect the thoughts, opinions, ideas, and/or body odor of my company, my friends, my wife, my daughter, my fish, my roses, my dog, or my trash. All rights reserved, all lefts reserved. This software is subject to change without notice. Bits are slightly enlarged to show detail. Any resemblance to actual software, running or hung, is unintentional and purely coincidental. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Forget the dog, beware of owner. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Hand wash only, tumble dry on low heat. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No substitutions allowed. For a limited time only. Type hard, you are making five copies. This software is a void pointer to null where prohibited, protected, declared private, taxed, or otherwise restricted. Software is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied. User assumes all liabilities. Not liable for damages due to use or misuse or inability to understand. An equal opportunity electron employer. No shirt, no shoes, no software. Quantities are limited while supplies last. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Falling bridge. London bridge is falling down, falling down, help, I've fallen and I can't get up. Quality may vary. Since software is hand-crafted, there will be slight differences in each object. If defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized service center. No Parking. No Standing. No Solicitors. No Spitting. No Kidding. Posted no Bills. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. No anchovies please. Parental Advisory - explicit source code. No one under 17 admitted. Keep away from sunlight, pets, and small children. Limit one per family. No money down. No purchase necessary. Cache and carry. You do not need to be present to win. Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included. Action figures sold separately. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models are over 18 years of age. Available in fine shoe stores everywhere. Take a number please. Preservatives added to improve freshness. Safety goggles must be worn at all times. Hard hat area. Sealed for your protection. The buss stops here. Call before you dig. Add toner. Sanitized for your protection. Place stamp here. How about a nice game of chess? EXTERN use only. If a rash, redness, irritation, or swelling develops, discontinue use and consult your magic eight ball. Use only with proper ventilation. Avoid extreme temperatures. Store in a cool dry place. Refrigerate after opening. Keep away from open flames and avoid inhaling fumes. Avoid contact with eyes. Do not puncture, incinerate, or store above 120 degrees Fahrenheit. If this software begins to smoke, run, do not walk, towards the nearest exit. Do not place near any magnetic source. Smoking this software may be hazardous to your health. Stop playing with that atomic pile. You are not in Kansas any more. I/O, I/O, its off to work I go. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the CIA. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. A proud sponsor of the local chapter of the old hackers home. Code used in this software was made from 100% recycled electrons. Prosecutors will be violated. No animals were used to test the runtime performance of this software. No extra salt, MSG, artificial color or flavoring added. If ingested, do not induce vomiting. If symptoms persist, delete yourself immediately. If you suspect an overloaded operator, destroy immediately. Constantly volatile when exposed to static pointers. The white zone is for passenger loading and unloading only. Do you like gladiator movies? Content's under press
The EVLA says "4. Anything I make with my own computer is my property, and you cannot use if in any form."
Isn't restricting their use of conditional logic a little bit extreme?
"if you violate any of these terms we will stop payment" ... huh? What if they violate the EVLA 6 months after you buy the software? How can you stop payment then? You can't. You'd have to sue.
.. well it's sorta kinda like breaking into their house and stealing the money from their piggybank. Damn, I am a genius today.
I have a better idea. Make them agree that when you pay them, you are only giving them A LICENSE to use your money. You can revoke that license (i.e. get your money back) at any time, and for any reason. Would there be a failure of consideration (thus making the contract void for ya non-legal peeps)? No, due to time value of money. You get the money back, but not with interest. So they did get some consideration - the use of your money until you ask for it back.
Yeah, you'd still probably have to sue them to get them to quit pirating your money (violating the license agreement), but we can start a BSA type group to enforce such horrible, criminal violations on a large scale. I mean, come on.... taking a license to use someone's money and not giving the money back when the license is revoked is
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
They're called "shrink wrap licenses" because you usually can't read them until you've paid for the product and opened the package. And they usually say that by simply opening the package you've already agreed to the license terms that you couldn't even read until after you opened the package -- and we'll just bet the store didn't let you do that before you paid for it.
End user license agreements are designed to protect the manufacturer and may take away a lot of your rights. They may prohibit you from reviewing their product, give the manufacturer the right to revoke your right to use a software package at any time, or even state that files you create using the product belong to the vendor, not to you.
In this age of growing software monopolies, draconian licensing agreements, and oppressive legislation like UTICA and DMCA, we try to turn the tables with the Lite Side's
(Continue to start of parent comment...)
</pointlesskarmawhoring>
quit modding it funny... i'm serious. If I buy their software and only get a license to use it, then I'll give them a license to use my money. It's still my money (just like it's still their software). If we all agree that we will not buy any software unless they accept this condition, we'll make the world a better place. Birds will sing all day long. Chipmunks and pitbulls will play together.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
I trained my cat to click on them, but I rarely boot to anything but Linux so she's getting out of practice. Come to think of it, I don't think OS X and OS 9 even have entries in my bootloader.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
We need a Better Business Bureau like association for EULA's. Where software companies can get their software certified and then being able to display a seal of approval on the packaging by having their EULA user friendly. There could be different levels of friendliness and reviews on software that didn't want to apply for certification.
I've actually heard of people doing something like this by writing on the back of a check something to the effect of "By endorsing or cashing this check, you agree to the following conditions...."
Not all the different from the $2-$5 checks that periodically come in the mail, which by cashing sign you up for some stupid, inanen service that nearly no one actually needs...
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
Disclaimer to be used when purchasing software:
This check is fully warranted against physical defects and poor workmanship in its stationery. If the check is physically damaged, return it to me and I will replace or repair it at my discretion. No other warranty of any kind is made, neither expressed nor implied including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of Merchantability, Suitability for Purpose, and Validity of Currency. Any and all risk concerning the actual value of this check is assumed by you, the recipient. Even though I or my agents may have assured you of its worth, either verbally or in written communication, we may have had our fingers crossed, so don't come whimpering back to me if it bounces.
The money, if any, represented by this instrument remains my property. You are licensed to use it, however you are not allowed to copy the original check except for your personal records, nor are you permitted to give the money itself to anyone else. Neither may you allow any other person to use the money. Remember, you may have it in your possession, but it still belongs to me, and I'm going to call on you from time to time just to keep tabs on it.
This agreement supersedes all others between us, including the equally ridiculous one you have undoubtedly pasted on the back of your packaging, or concealed somewhere in the middle of it. The location of your version of this or any other covenant between us is irrelevant to its inapplicability here. Only this one pertains, and I really mean it. In fact, this one supersedes yours even though yours may say that it supersedes mine. Why, even if yours said it would supersede mine even if mine said it would supersede yours even if yours said... Oh well. You get the idea.
You may decline this agreement by returning the uncashed check to me within twenty-four hours. If you attempt to cash it, however, you have implicitly accepted these terms. You may also implicitly accept these terms by:
1) Calling my bank to inquire about the status of my account;
2) Thanking me at the conclusion of our business transaction;
3) Going to bed at the end of this or any other day; or
4) Using any toilet or rest room.
Please be advised that I have adopted a strict rubber-glue policy. Any nasty thing that your lawyers say bounces off of me and sticks back to you. Be further advised that you agree to pay my legal expenses if I decide to sue you for violating this agreement or for any other reason that might strike my fancy. Violations will be punishable by fine, imprisonment, death, any two of the above, or all three.
See also the Software Vendor License Agreement.
it's not karma whoring if your an AC
I've actually considered offering access to some of my software on that kind of basis. You give me the required amount when you start using it and get your money back when you stop using it but I get to collect interest on the money while it's in my hands. The software tracks digital money across different websites I made. You can buy/sell stuff in my EBay type site, buy stuff from me, play games, etc paying with digital money but can cash out if you want (but again with me keeping the interest). The main benefit would actually be that there would be far fewer fees involved (as PayPal, credit card processing, etc are somewhat expensive) and rather than charging fees to support the site I'd be able to just use the interest on the money I'm holding. Maybe a fee if you cashed out sooner than 60 days after buying the digital money.. to stop wanks from doing it 20 times a day.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
This type of thing (what is mentioned in the article) would work, but only if a vast majority of consumers decided to join such a group. I say we find a way to protect the rights of everyone.
They don't let us see the EULA until after we purchase the product, so we don't have to let them to see the EVLA until after purchase either.
Just write up your own EVLA and mail it to them, remembering to include the following:
If you do not accept the terms of this agreement, you have 14 days to reimburse the purchase price plus sales taxes and the software product will be returned to you. Failure to return the money within 14 days indicates acceptance of the agreement, which supercedes all End User Licensing Agreements past, present or future.
Then if the manufacturer ever gets around to replying to you, tell them you are not responsible for returning the product; the store where you bought it will send them one. Or if the store contacts you, direct them to the manufacturer.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
Would this be possible? Feasible? Ok prolly not but still, it'd be cool.
And, I'd imagine, they'd get more "sales". I'd also suggest and end date; ~3 years maybe?
This idea is not new. I've actually seen such proposals months if not few years back. More on this later on.
Overall, the linked EVLA is more user-oriented - it has demands that are annoying to some end users such as "don't make me click more than once", "don't ask me twice if I want to quit", "ask me to register only once", etc., etc.
Even though it does qualify as funny, it doesn't really address what should be in this kind of "agreement" and definitely doesn't address the terms and conditions that are imposed by most EULAs. These conditions include restrictions on types of use, reverse-engineering, vendors' rights to revoke license at any time, vendors' rights to invade users' homes, users' non-existent rights, etc., etc.
If you would like to look at a more serious document related towards this issue, look at Software Vendor License Agreement that I found before. That would seem more fair to me.
11. You must never install software on my computer that hijacks other software, causing it to display popups or to add affiliate ids to purchases I make.
12. You must never install software on my computer that connects to a remote server, unless the software first obtains my permission to do so, and explains what information will be sent to the remote server.
In several Western countries, you cannot legally sign away your basic rights. It doesn't matter what the vendors put in a contract, EULA or any other document, how much you pay for it or what you have to sign. Those rights are yours, and a court will ignore any documentation that doesn't respect that.
This is why you find disclaimers in things like EULAs that if one part is found not to hold, the rest still does, etc. It's also why big businesses like Microsoft are terrified of a serious test case that might establish a precedent that EULAs have no legal weight because of the way they are set up. The net effect is that they rely on threats of legal action to get what the EULA would seek to secure for them, because it's the best chance they've got in most places and they know it.
This is not to say that you should flagrantly ignore things you know to be in an EULA unless you want to play dice with the courts. But you're pretty safe in ignoring any unreasonable conditions, because it's about a 110% certainty that they won't be legally enforceable anyway.
No, I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, and Slashdot is not the place for serious legal discussion. But use your common sense: no court is going to uphold something as manifestly unreasonable as a contract you supposedly agree to before you even have chance to read it. In fact, some places even have laws to the effect that if you can't reasonably be expected to understand a contract, you can't legally have entered into it. Not sure EULAs would fall within that, but it would be an interesting case...
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
...to follow your (good) idea, you *already* have a legitimate purchaser of large amounts of software-it's those stores. They are your major force multiplier and our societies normal middleman and representative between you, the end user and the software vendors. They are MOST definetly involved, they make bundlkes of cash as well on selling that stuff. The stores get it wholesale, then retail it.. They start to get lots of complaints and demands for them to sign your acceptable use and full disclosure and acceptance of liability contract to counter the lame EULA nonsense, or *no sale*. THAT will get back to the vendors. Just like going in, hauling crippled cds up to the counter, then saying "no sale if these won't play in all my cdplayers".
It's normal activism, it's a boycott in advance, but they have to SEE that it might affect sales, you leave the store manager standing there with stock to put back on the shelf and a no-sale potential customer walking out the door. One, he'll think it's a crank, a few hundred in any one store, he WILL note this. In hundreds of stores? You just might see some changes, by pass that washington DC nonsense, take em on mano y mano with the cash. That's all they care about, the cash, so that's where you attack.
That way, you don't have to fib and pose as a big buyer, you let the real big buyers transfer complaints. It happens all the time. I can give you an example, where it WORKED,-compleely different but it happened-rosie O donnel and K mart. I know I was part of hundreds of thousands of complaints that went to Kmart over using her in advertising, both written complaints and in person store complaints, direct to the stores managers. told them _no, repeat_no sale until she goes, your choice mr kmart, take it or leave it".
It worked, but it took a lot of people doing it. But it worked. She got the boot, kmart saw dropped sales. they never admited that was the reason, but the timing proved otherwise.
The SAME thing can be done with crippled CDs, crippled players, or stupid software EULAS that force spyware on you and offer no warranty or guarantee, bork your computer, etc, etc, all the things we talk about that happen,and a huge reluctance or denial of any money back on software. It's ridiculous, it's really lame it's been allowed to get so embedded in the industry, it's the only product out there in a major multi billion dollar industry sold like that, with a full skate of liability to the profiteers of same. (that I can think of handily at least)
I understand the necessity when software was the province of only a few thousand people on the planet and was still in the highly experimental phase, but there's no reason to continue to extend that get out of jail free card to them any more, there just isn't. It's "matured" enough as an industry so that the next plateau can be achieved,which is normal liabilities. Closed, non free propietary software is frantically defended as "a product". Swell. Have it their way then. They insist, whine, demand that their IP be treated as a tangible product, swell, no problems, then let normal "product" rules and laws apply. One or the other,they can make up their minds, and the customers can help if they choose to by DEMANDING it happen.
DARE to demand and boycott until you get what you want and what is the right thing to do, "we the software buyers people" have tremendous clout, because the vendors make zero $ without us handing it over, and yes, it's really that simple.
Another example, just happened, a sort of victory, with quicken. They got so many complaints and threats to boycott and whatnot they changed. it CAN be done across the industry, just needs doing, and how hard is it to NOT buy something??? Costs ZERO to boycott!
Yeah.
Quit trying to post to slashdot and get back to work.
--your boss
Aw crap, sorry about that; I forgot to put in the paragraph tags. My post should read:
n+1. Seeing that I paid for this software, I shall use it as I see fit. There are to be no restrictions on use.
n+2. I may reverse engineer anything I damn well please to make your product interact properly with another, or to get around your DRM restricting my legitimate use.
n+3. My desktop, quick launch bar, the top of my Start menu, my StartUp menu, my NT services, and the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run key are sacred. Your installer will not put anything in any of these locations without my express permission, and by default it won't touch them.
n+4. I will choose exactly which icons are installed on my Start menu, and where. You are not to make yourself a program group (or FIVE in the case of Epson) and dump icons for your program, EULA, website, help file, and uninstaller in it. I'm tired of cleaning up after program installs.
n+5. Your EULA shall NOT change when I install bug fixes, ESPECIALLY security updates.
n+6. You may ask me to register, but I may choose not to and still receive all the benefits of your software.
n+7. Shrink-wrap licenses are hereby banned. Any EULA must be printed on the front of the box. If it doesn't fit in a reasonably-sized typeface, shorten it until it does.
n+8. Your uninstaller must work properly.
n+9. Ads are forbidden in paid-for software; spyware is forbidden in ALL software, including free downloads. If Ad-Aware catches anything after I install your software, you owe me $500, plus the cost of your software.
n+10. No crippleware. For instance, DVD-playing software must ignore user operation prohibition on DVDs, play DVDs from all regions, and be able to copy the DVD to the hard drive.
n+11. I may review your product either positively or negatively without asking permission.
n+12. DRM is hereby banned. It will be cracked anyway and cracked copies will be all over the Internet eventually, likely even before your software is released. Only the honest people will pay, DRM or not, but DRM hurts everyone.
Okay, that was long-winded, but I feel better now.
It's an operating system, not a religion.
Was on a band aid wrapper:
" contents sterile unless opened "
Beautiful. Impossible to test the product to see if the disclaimer is truthful.
Maybe on my next software product I will have an EULA that states " contains no bugs unless open "
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
Who knows you might get a refund. If enough people did this it would create some sort of legal precident that might be useful later.
Help fight continental drift.
I shall continue to use the software based on the rights granted to me by the fair use provisions and the first sale doctrine.
Should you desire to have the software returned, I am willing to sell my copy back, at the price I paid for it (plus $100 for shipping and handling), but only if you do not try impose any more terms and conditions on this return sale.
This offer is valid for a 7 days. If I do not hear from you in that time, you have implicitly and irrevocably accepted my purchase of the software, non-acceptance of your EULA, and my fair use rights to it.
Yours sincerely
...
P.S. non-disclaimer: Since you have not paid for me to sign a non-disclosure agreement, I reserve the right to publish what ever you send me.
In Murphy We Turst
A lot of people are still buffaloed by EULA's. Instead of blasting the issuer for stupidly wasting time and money paying lawyers to write rules that have no legal leg to stand on (something those lawyers know full well if they're not complete incompetents), they complain about the draconian restrictions and duties these rules impose. Complain about the existence first. Skipping straight to arguments against the content implicitly legitimizes the existence.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
I thought that something more along the shrinkwrap vein was the way to go. I've considered mailing something like the following to software publishers:
This document is a legal agreement between your firm and
[purchaser name here] for any and all software sold to [your
name here], whether sold directly or through authorized
resellers. By accepting payment, either directly or
indirectly, for any such software, you agree to be bound by
the terms of this agreement.
If there is a conflict between the terms of any End User
License Agreement ("EULA") or other agreement(s) enclosed
with the software product and this document, the terms of
this document will define the legal limits and obligations
of the parties. Any changes to the terms of this agreement
must be made in writing and must be signed and notarized by
both parties to be considered binding.
Software Product License
Scope of License
[purchaser name here] may install software on as many
computers as are under his/her control, so long as the
software is in active use on only one such computer at a
time.
Backup Rights
Our firm grants [purchaser name here] permission to make
backup copies of and and all software and documentation and
explicitly permits user to circumvent any technical means
employed limit copying of said software and documentation.
Burden of Proof
[purchaser name here] will not be required to retain copies
of original media, packaging, printed license, receipt, or
any other documentation or materials in order to retain
license to use said software. It is the responsibility of
our firm to prove any claims that we make against user
relating to copyright infringement or violation of the terms
of any software license.
Sale or Transfer
If [purchaser name here] sells or transfers the software
license, [purchaser name here] must convey or destroy any
electronic or physical copies of software, license, and
documentation.
Warranty
Software is guaranteed to perform as advertised and
documented by our firm for a period of not less than one
year after date of purchase by [purchaser name here].
Remedies
If software has defects which cause it to not perform as
described within the warranty period (see above), [purchaser
name here] may return software to place of purchase for a
full refund.
If [purchaser name here] is denied a refund by seller for
defective software, [purchaser name here] is granted
permission to rent or sublicense software in order to recoup
purchase price. Alternatively, [purchaser name here], is
granted license to use later, corrected versions of software
at no additional charge.