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Roswell Declassified
John3 writes "Scotland may be the most popular UFO destination on the planet, but Roswell, New Mexico is the old favorite for government conspiracy buffs who believe the US government has been hiding proof of an alien spacecraft crash in 1947. Popular Mechanics has recently gained access to de-classified documents from the Roswell military base, and they contain no entries of unusual events or activity. I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?"
Hanger 18
Welcome to our fortress tall
Take some time to show you around
Impossible to break these walls
For you see the steel is much too strong
Computer banks to rule the world
Instruments to sight the stars
Possibly I've seen to much
Hangar 18 I know too much
Foreign life forms inventory
Suspended state of cryogenics
Selective amnesia's the story
Believed foretold but who'd suspect
The military intelligence
Two words combined that can't make sense
Possibly I've seen to much
Hangar 18 I know too much
That is frustrating, but not suprising. A significant percentage, into the double digits if I remember correctly, of people in industrialized countries still think the world is flat, so it I am not suprised that there are ppl out there that think the moon landings are fake,
The whole theory behind the conspiracies is that the government is hiding something. Therefore the conspiracy theorists will refuse to believe anything that says that aliens have not visited Earth.
I find it highly unlikely that aliens do not exist. For as Douglas Adams said, we live in an infinite universe where anything is possible. The shear immensity of the universe allows the possibility for extra-terrestrial life to exist, and it would be rather sad if all of those stars we see at night had empty planets orbiting them. Having said that, I do find it unlikely that alien life has contacted humans. We are a fairly warlike peoples (it is true, look throughout our history, and you won't have to look too far back either) and I would not be surprised that if a peaceful alien life form found Earth, they would refuse to make contact with us. A warlike alien life form would probably destroy us however, and since that has never happened...
I am not stubborn. I am right!
Lets face it, if the g'ovt produced an alien and said 'this one turned up last week' the conspiracy theorists would assume that it was only as a distraction to hide something of even bigger importance.
We will never be rid of them - just like we will never be rid of Open Source naysayers, BSD is dead trolls and other assorted kooks.
Beep beep.
You dont have proof we landed on the moon just like you dont have proof that flying saucers exist, Pictures and Video are not proof. I also do not think its wise to blindly trust the government, this includes NASA.
Come to your own conclusions, if you think its a realistic possibility that flying saucers exist than they exist. I think its a realistitc possibility that they exist, whos making them is debateable, but I believe the pictures and video footage, I also dont believe millions of people would lie.
Now, as far as landing on the moon, I think it happened, not because I actually went on the moon but because I think the videos and pictures are authentic, and I think its realistic that we could have had the technology to do it at the time.
Flying saucers are real simply because our own government had prototype spy crafts which were flying saucers, its also realistic to believe the soviets could have had secret weapons designed to spy on us which just happened to be saucer shaped. The far out theory is that Aliens could be controlling them, this is possible too although much more difficult to prove, theres not as much evidence but its possible.
Ultimately the odds say flying saucers exist, theres evidence to prove it, the more far out the theory the less evidence you have and the more you have to trust the word of people. I do not like to draw my conclusions from the word of people, therefore I cannot say Aliens are controlling flying saucers, I can only say flying saucers exist.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Not all of them say its Aliens, you choose to pick the most far out theory, I could do the same, theres people who actually believe the moon is made of cheese, thats a far out theory.
Theories which are actually possible, such as the moon landing never happening, this is actually debateable, also you cannot deny the fact that UFOs do exist, we do not know whos controlling them we just know they are there.
Theres theories which say people control them and theres theories which say aliens control them. With either of these theories the government would have kept information about them secret. When the government doesnt know what something is they dont tell anyone about it. The government loves to keep military secrets.
Area51 exists, its proven, you can walk there and see it. Theres been UFO style crafts flying around the area for years, perhaps the government makes these crafts to spy on us? They could be unmanned spy crafts.
The germans could have made crafts such as these back during roswell, perhaps it was a test, maybe they put ape like creatures in the craft to test it and it crashed, our government could have discovered new technology, kept it secret, and hid this technology for years, if its spy technology you cant expect them to ever release or declassify it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Do your research before you post idiot.
.gov links you'll search for them yourself, consider the fact that these projects were classified, finding detailed information about these projects from the government may not be easy as we cannot even find out how the stealth bomber works.
CraftA Project Silverbug
CraftB
The Nazis had project Flugelrad and Wing Wheel, the British had Project Y, Canada had Y-2, and the USA had Silverbug.
Do your research on these projects to find out more information. We have had saucer shaped craft for a while, since the 1940s, around the same time the Roswell situation happeend.
If you want
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Go into the mountains. Put a unique item of some sort that you can test the uniqueness of (a large random number that you have memorized would work) in a safe and bury it. Note the GPS coordinates.
:)
Now start walking west. When you get back to the coordinates, open the box. Verify the number.
It may not mathematically disprove the earth is flat theory, but if everyone who thought that the earth is flat did this, the rest of us could get some real work done.
(Alternately, you could take a few physics or engineering courses and try to figure out what sort of material could make an object the size and mass of a flat Earth and not collapse into a sphere under its own weight.)
from the NISPOM (National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual)...
http://www.dss.mil/isec/nispom_0195.htm
Duration Of Classification:
Declassification is the authorized changing of information from classified to unclassified. When information is originally classified, the classifier must now attempt to identify a date or event upon which the information will be declassified. The standard in this Order is that information should normally remain classified for no longer than 10 years. But the Order also recognizes that there are some circumstances in which information must stay classified longer than 10 years because disclosure would cause damage to national security even after 10 years. In such cases, under Section 1.6(d) of the Order, the original classi-fication authority may exempt information from the "10-year rule" only if, after 10 years, disclosure would be expected to:
a. Reveal an intelligence source, method or activity, or a cryptologic system or activity (X1),
b. Reveal information that would assist in the development or use of weapons of mass destruction (X2),
c. Reveal information that would impair the development or use of technology within a United States weapons system (X3),
d. Reveal United States military plans or national security emergency preparedness plans (X4),
e. Reveal foreign government information (X5),
f. Damage relations between the United States and a foreign government, reveal a confidential source, or seriously undermine diplomatic activities that are reasonably expected to be ongoing for a period longer than 10 years (X6),
g. Impair the ability of responsible United States Government officials to protect the President, the Vice-President, and other individuals for whom protection services, in the interest of national security, are authorized (X7),
h. Violate a statute, treaty, or international agreement (X8),
The designators in parentheses following each item show the exemption categories specified in Section 1.6(d) of the Executive Order. Either the designator or a brief description of the exemption will now be applied when marking documents containing exempted information.
The Order permits such extensions up to 25 years, when most classified information must be declassified. However, in a very small number of situations, some information may remain classified for longer periods.
emphasis mine
i have worked on programs which fall into the very last line.. they will be declassifed... maybe.. in 75 years... but probably not.
Every culture needs myths, fairy tails and mysteries. America needs it's own Loch Ness.
And it's good for the government, too! These kooks wasting their time on area 51 won't have any time left to poke around in current conspiracies. And the more really outlandish conspiracy theories are out there, the less likely the outlandish conspiracies that actually happen are, so nobody will believe them.
If we really had obtained alien technology, why would we still pollute our ecosystem to get from A to B? You'd think we wouldn't need to burn fossils any more for transportation.
I also dont believe millions of people would lie.
They don't have to be lying to be dead wrong. Ask someone what happens when you die. You will get answering ranging from pearly gates to 72 virgins to nothing. People have seen things in the skies for thousands of years. The only thing that changes is the explanations. We have gone from lights in the skies being gods(polytheistic societies) to angels(monotheistic) to aliens(atheistic).
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public.
It's documented that the CIA tried to kill Castro with explosive cigars, that they tested LSD on unsuspecting subjects, that they withheld syphilis treatment for a group of black subjects for decades as part of a study. The government isn't monolithic, and has regular turnover on people, between politics and just plain old age. And between basic honesty, vengance on political opponents, and an active coverup being work (which is not why they took the job), stuff's going to come out. If the government shot JFK, no one would stand to benefit now from its coverup, and many people would actively try to unsupress it.
Feh! Everyone knows that the UFO bit is just a smokescreen. The military is using Roswell's cloak of secrecy to get around environmental regulations.
There are three superfund sites listed for the city in the including a former airforce base, groundwater contamination, and one site with no details "at State request". Active military facilities are exempted from EPA oversight. But, of course, fences and guards only work above ground to keep people out, not below ground to keep Tetrachloroethanen in.
Why haven't any corrupt government officials made money off the technology, yet, if this is true?
Why haven't we seen huge revolutionary leaps in technology beyond what we'd expect with Kondratiev and other cycles, instead of just jumps along an evolutionary scale?
Sure, they could keep it secret for a while, but 60 years later is a long time.
Get off my launchpad!
Anybody who cares to actually do the research, (as the poster so blithly suggests), will quickly realize that it is quite impossible that plastic army men and one guy with a head injury are accountable for the thousands of grey aliens which have been witnessed around the globe over the last century.
And I love this one; who cares when the term 'weather balloon' was coined? That detail has absolutely no bearing on anything important. --Why even bring it up? Perhaps the author hopes that when it is read quickly along with his other bulleted factoids, it might pass as some sort of evidence which sort of means something. --A technique used by shabby university students trying to pad essays the world over.
As for buddy's final, heart-stopping question. .
You say we recovered advanced alien tech. You say we recovered alien bodies. Then tell me: Where the hell is this technology?
This is Jr. Highschool junk philosophy at its finest! Why not also throw up the, "If God exists, how could he let there be War?" argument and be done with it? Grow up.
Only those living in happy TV land believe that the state has any interest whatsoever in the welfare of common humanity. There's a reason you can't buy even the most mundane, human-derived military secret down at the local Radio Shack.
Think about it. Aside from everything else, (and there are more points than I can even begin to count off the top of my head), there is no profit in war if you sell your country and the world on technology which is actually effective.
The real war is one you can't see. --And by my estimate, you've already lost about four fifths of it if you are willing to post garbage like the above. Sheesh.
Good luck. You'll need it.
-FL
Is just not possable that alians have never come to earth, even if they exist, which I don't know one way or the other, and don't care.
I just say if they exist more power to them, if they don't oh well no big deal.
If I were to be asked if I belive that they exist I would say, it is posable given the massive size of universe, so why not? But do I think they have come to earth, I would say no, and if they did they would not come just to give some hillbillys anal probs, or draw circles in fields, or turn cows insideout. That would seem to be a waist of time and effort to come to earth for a few pranks. But who knows they might be among us, sorry I could not resist that one.
The people (UFO skeptics) believe... There may be nothing you can do about it.
The lack of proof of god does not keep people from going to church on Sunday. It may be part of the innate human condition, an ability to trust or believe in things that cannot be proven.
Lets look at things people believe in; God, faith healing, numerology, tarot cards, psychics, UFO's etc
There is an element of faith in all of these items and you would find a worthy challenge in getting people who truly believe to think about to alternatives.
And considering the bizaare circumstances that created life on earth was astrnomically rare (no pun intended :P)only created one sentient lifeform here that we know of the chance of meeting intelligent life in this universe is near null.
I recall one scientist suggesting that if you have life on a planet then intelligence is almost inevitable. After all, he pointed out, it's arisen independently three times on this planet.
But then folks says lots of dumb things, especially when it's not exactly in their field of specialisation. I recall an interview quoting David Brin as saying "if there's life on other planets, we'll probably be able to eat it" -- a brave prediction given there's plenty of stuff on Earth we can't eat, either because it's poisonous or biologically alien to us (e.g. stuff outside the plant and animal kingdoms is frequently highly toxic).
Pondering the probability of imponderables is good work if you can get it. Carl Sagan quotes what he admits is a very crude formula -- 1/10 stars has a planet, 1/100 (?) stars with planets has a habitable planet, 1/10 habitable planets has life, life always develops intelligence, intelligence always builds radio telescopes but only has a 1/10 chance of surviving the invention of nuclear weapons, etc. always seemed to me to be far more sketchy as it got to the right side of the blackboard.
What are the odds that an alien intelligence will have a metabolism in our preferred timescale and thus be able to communicate with us in real time? What are the odds it will "see" and/or "hear" as we see and hear? Would an organism that sees with bat-like Sonar be able to convert a prime x prime grid of pixels into a recognisable image or set of symbols?
Bat-like sonar is a sense possessed by a creature quite closely related to us using parts of a brain very similar to ours. Imagine how alien an alien brain connected to alien sense organs might be.
Then there's the convergent evolution argument (exemplified by David Brin). DNA is obviously the best way to encode genes. Expect aliens made of cells, quite possibly with familiar proteins, carbohydrates, DNA etc. etc.
And who knows, maybe silicon-based life is actually by far the easiest one to come by and we're remarkable in that our solar system appears to be devoid of it. But silicon life all lives much slower-paced lives than we do so we simply couldn't relate to it...
By the way sentient i.e. "having a faculty, or faculties, of sensation and perception" is a rather low bar. There's a huge number of sentient creatures on Earth. If you're going for self aware, dolphins, gorillas, chimpanzees, elephants, dogs, and probably several other animals have demonstrated self-awareness.
Id like to point out the trends of UFO sightings in past happen to coincide with alpha technology of the respective periods
I think Weather balloons are well into beta by now...
That we are indeed alone as far as intelligent life and people are still desperately trying to find something to believe in.
To misquote Steve Martin: "With all the crazy superstitious people out there, I don't know what I'd do without my astrological mood-ring".
Sorry, but we know people they threatened there at the time. And believe me, they did an excellent job of scaring the people there over what? A weather balloon? Pleeeeze.
And to those of you who claim it there is no secret because the government couldn't keep such a secret so long -- What Secret?!?! This has been leaking out all over the place for years. Think a little bit, folks.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
if you refer to the apollo 11 flag... it's not standing up anymore, Neil Amstrong himself saw it toppling over when they lifted off. I'm not kidding/trolling, you can go and look it up in the transcripts sections on the NASA website, so it must be true (if you believe they landed on the moon, you'll have to believe NASA on that account too ;) )