Roswell Declassified

John3 writes "Scotland may be the most popular UFO destination on the planet, but Roswell, New Mexico is the old favorite for government conspiracy buffs who believe the US government has been hiding proof of an alien spacecraft crash in 1947. Popular Mechanics has recently gained access to de-classified documents from the Roswell military base, and they contain no entries of unusual events or activity. I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?"

Comments

It won't :)

[zaqattack911]

Conspiracy theorists are only fed by government denials. Look what happened to NASA when they started to talk back at Moon landing doubters.

zuchini

Re:It won't :)

[chamenos]

exactly....conspiracy theorists tend to believe whatever they want to believe irregardless of the facts that may speak otherwise. the declassification of documents will just be interpreted as an attempt by the government to throw them off.

Re:It won't :)

[dissy]

(snip) You dont have proof we landed on the moon (/snip)

Well, we do have proof that we have sent craft to the moon.
There is a flag on a pole that you can see with a powerful telescope, controlled by the same places that give us the wonders of technology we can see the outcome of on earth.

There are also mirrors on the moon which you can use to reflect lasers back (Granted the hardware to do this is pricy, but 'anyone' can do it)

Now, this just proves we have sent things up into space that ended up on the moon.
Doesnt prove it was a person.

But using your basic logic, if we have the technology to send a craft to the moon that can plant a flag and posistion mirrors, and return with samples from the moon, that exact same technology could very well hold a person inside as well.

Its sorta like saying people dont fly fighter jets because you cant see the people when the planes fly overhead.
While that is logically true, if you look at a jet, there IS room for a person in there, so its not at all improbable or impossible.

But there is just no convincing some people i guess :)

deter or encourage

[Stinson]

either this will deter conspiracists, or just give them a new argument that the government removed the unusual entries before declassifying them. There really will never be a way to prove that declassified documents aren't modified

Right

[Matthaeus]

And the documents that were declassified were all the documents associated with Roswell, right? All unaltered? Hey, look over there!

Not that I'm a rabid conspiracy theorist, but anybody who is willing to believe in a government coverup of that magnitude won't be pacified by a bunch of relatively easily-faked "declassified" documents.

Re:Right

[StarTux]

Considering Clinton was unable to hide his affair and that the F117 was also known well enough about I doubt, very much doubt anything of this magnitude could be hidden. Heck, even the Chinese stole nuclear secrets.

No closure here

[nukey56]

This is the equivalent of the government saying "no, sorry, nothing happened". Just because they realeased their "offical documents" doesn't mean that: A) they're true B) they're complete and most importantly C) they aren't counter-intelligence. Our government still has much to gain from having some sort of advanced technology. I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth. But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.

Re:No closure here

[ibennetch]

But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.

True, but the thing that I question (assuming "something" happened there, which I neither have an opinion on nor care about, this is just a mind-game) is the first-hand reports of the military and government personel who were involved -- especially in any cover-up. Here's what happens:

- Something happens
- "they" cover it up, remove all evidence and delete any documents reporting anything about "it"
- Everyone invovled dies of old age (Roswell was what, fifty years ago -- another twenty or thirty years and no first-hand witnesses will be around)
- No one ever finds out the truth

Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[Infonaut]

Uh.. no.

Conspiracy theories are not really theories, in that they can never be disproved. The theory that the earth is flat can be disproved; the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.

Conspiracy theory is a belief system, and as such is highly resistant to facts.

Conspiracy theorists.

[Montreal Geek]

I think the poster misses the point about how conspiracy theorists think entirely.

If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth. The fact that there is no proof of their pet theory is proof that there was a cover up to hide it.

This is the reason why those kooks annoy me so much; it's not that they beleive in a complicated, contrived scenario so much as they use the lack of proof for their delusion as proof of correctness. Making them, by definition, immune to logic or facts.

This is probably going to hurt my karma to dare say so, but one cannot help but notice the parralel with most religious beleif systems.

I guess the bad-guy-of-faith has been transposed from satan to some illuminati for those who feel the need to explain life by intervention deus ex machina rather than accept its unpredictability.

-- MG

Re: Conspiracy theorists.

[Black Parrot]

> If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth.

Some will take the lack of mention of aliens as proof that the aliens are real.

I think I'm going to have to lurk on sci.skeptic for a few days. This should be good.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[m00nun1t]

Well, I've also got Karma to burn, so...

It's also a lot like /.
Report on the things you believe on (pro-OSS, anti-MS), avoid linking to things that go against that belief system, and report unconfirmed rumours (ie. Michael Robertson saying Microsoft were selling WinXP for $50 to Lindows customers, later refuted) as fact.

It's really hard to see the difference between /., religious extremists and conspiracy theorists. All 3 will make sure the "facts" line up with their beliefs, regardless of what is really happening.

I expect to be modded to -500 for this, but such is life...

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Imperator]

I believe in God because the Bible tells me so.

The Bible is true because it is the word of God.

What? Why are you looking at me like that? It makes perfect sense!

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Surak]

Strange. I would say that I "believe in the Bible", because archaeological and historical evidence bear it out - from fulfilled prophecies, to supernatural events, to plain old facts. Its remarkable insight into human nature could also be considered contributory evidence of its divine nature.

Really? So rabbits chew their cud? There is archaeological and historical evidence of an actual flood that occurred 3000-4000 years ago in which all the people and animals of the earth were populated from the ones on that took a ride on an ark? The earth is only 6,000 years old? The earth is flat and has four corners? Note also that there is NO RECORD of Jesus bin Miriam's birth, life, or death (other than the Bible) despite the fact that the Romans kept meticulous records. Also note that there is no Egyptian record of the Jewish people ever being enslaved by them, and then freed by Moses, despite the fact that Egyptians also kept meticulous records.

There holes in the Bible big enough to drive a Sherman tank through without hitting anything.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Malcontent]

Just because there was a flood that does not mean jesus christ was the son of god.

Every culture in the world has a legend about a big flood which indicates there was some sort of a global event but that does not make jesus the son of god. Following your logic then all myths by all cultures are true because they all mention the same flood.

I have no doubt that the bible was documenting a lot the cultural legends and history of the jewish people but I don't for one second believe that it was the word of god.

The bible is a book of the jews. It makes the jews look good and everybody else look bad (which is understandable). It does not contain any information which would not be available to the jews living at that time.

There is no mention of the poles, no mention of pluto, jupiter, saturn or any other planets, not even a mention of the pyramids or the sphynx.

Surely if the jews were slaves of the egyptians they would have said something about the pyramids and as a previous poster said the egyptians would have written something about it. They seemed to have documented everything else that went on in their lives.

You can't say that because the bible mentions some event or another that all of it is true. Not even you believe that jonah lived in the belly of a whale do you?

Fake

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Those de-classified reports are obviously fake. The real UFO documents will never be de-classified due humanity's inability to deal with Extra-Terrestrial life on this planet.

Well, all personal conspiracy theories aside, why would this stop anyone from making up conspiracy theories? No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public. Are they gonna declassify that they shot JFK (if they did) even 100 years from now? I think not.

that is odd in and of itself

[the_2nd_coming]

there is no report of the huge convoy of trucks that locals had reported shortly after the report was made? to me that seems a littel odd and not normal.

Re:What people forget...

[Anonymous Coward]

ny activity of any nature in the area would likely have produced a profound overreaction
That's why the article is interesting. PM didn't find any mention of anything unusual happening at the time.

Thats because of the government.

[HanzoSan]

When the government has specific information and we can prove they have it, but then they lie consistantly, saying its a saucer, then weather balloon, then its something else, this makes people think the government is lying.

Perhaps the government should have told the truth in the first place, if they discovered a saucer they should have just said "We have discovered a UFO"

Not lie about it for years. I think they did discover a saucer, mainly because their first report to the press was that they discovered a saucer, and internal documents leaked onto the internet have been studied which have proof that they found a saucer.

No mentioned of aliens, just a saucer shaped craft. This could be anything, it could be a spy craft, a test gone wrong, anything. If the government doesnt know what it is, they'd rather us believe its Aliens than admit they dont know what they found or where its from.

Re:I don't know...

[LBArrettAnderson]

yes, the truth is out there. the question is whether or not we'll get ahold of it.

if there really was an alien craft do you think they'd release THOSE documents? no. this doesn't deter anything

What an odd idea

[kfg]

"I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth."

This is like saying that if there were only one newspaper we'd know the truth. Or that China is the paragon of open information.

It is only through the maintenence of mulitiple sources of information, power and control that the truth can ever be known.

KFG

The gov controls the media.

[HanzoSan]

I'll tell you why. First people want to believe they can trust the government. Second people want to believe they can trust the media. Third people are ignorant.

The Media is controlled by the government, the government will have you fired if you go on TV and say the wrong thing, just ask Bill Mahr or any of these others who said the wrong thing on TV.

People want to protect their jobs, and because of their political status alot of them know they wont get any more secret information from the government, no more leaks, nothing, if they were to support any conspiricy which could harm the government.

This is why media people refuse to believe that Bush may have lied. They refuse to believe Bush may have lied to the American people to get us to go to war with Iraq, even when intelligence officials and others are saying he wasnt being truthful, even when the evidence says he could have been lying, people want to protect the government so they blame the CIA. Why the CIA? Because the CIA always takes the blame.

Put your tin foil hats away, please

[stwrtpj]

Rather than replying to a whole bunch of tin foil hat brigade posts, I'm going to combine what I know of the case into one post. In my younger and more foolish days, I was a UFO nut and soaked up every account of alien visitors. As I got older, I started looking at many of the facts of the case in a more objective light.

The conclusion I have come to is that the Roswell case is a conglomeration of multiple accounts of unrelated occurences occuring over the span of ten years that were later cobbled together into a single, misinformed account.

There is one very important fact that needs to be made clear about the entire Rosewell bru-ha-ha. A lot the publicity for it, namely the theory that an alien spacecraft crashed there, did not come about until well after the incident. In fact, it was not until as late as 1978 that alien bodies were ever associated with the incident.

So, bearing this in mind, here are some of the little factoids about the case that appear to have perfectly logical explanations:

• The little alien bodies - For some time durintg the late 1940s and early 1950s, the USAF conducted a series of tests which involved shoving anthropomorphic dummies out of planes from high altitude, usually to test parachute equipment. These dummies often wound up in people's farms. Not only did the USAF not cover this up, they encouraged people to report the location of these dummies, and even paid rewards for them. No coverup here. This is all documented.
• The alleged bits of alien spacecraft scattered over the landscape - The oft-repeated refrain from the tinfoil hat brigade is that the government claimed that this was a weather balloon. This term is a misnomer, and was never used by the USAF. This term was invented later. At the time of the alleged crash, the USAF had just started Project Mogul, which involved the launching of several high altitude balloons for various scientific experiments, including the effect of cosmic rays on living tissue samples. In fact, the very first such balloon crashed at about the time that the supposed alien ship crash happened. Once again, this is all well-documented, including the locations where these dummies we retrieved.
• The living alien at the hospital - Many accounts of the incident involve an actual living alien being escorted by USAF personnel. The figure is discribed as having the characteric large head of other supposed accounts of aliens. This is yet another case of an unrelated event being tied to Roswell. In 1959, a Captain Dan Fulgham received a nasty head injury that caused a massive hematoma. As a result, his face and head swelled to grotesque proportions. Even his own wife didn't recognize him at first. Documented. No coverup.

Ok, this post is long enough. There are lots of other little factoids from the case (the so-called "Missing Nurse", the alleged "red-headed captain" that threatened people if the said anything, etc) that I could go into, but all of these facts can be found with a little investigation.

But I can predict the responses now: "The government planted those other stories to throw us off the trail!" "They're feeding disinformation to us.!" Bull-fucking-shit. Check your history, people. The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance. Anything that remains classified now from that long ago, it's largely because no one considers the information important.

Finally, here's another one for you: You say we recovered advanced alien tech. You say we recovered alien bodies. Then tell me: Where the hell is this technology? 56 years is a hell of a long time. We've gone from vaccuum-tube ENIAC that fills a room to a 2.6 gigahertz PC that sits in your lap. If we can't in that space of time figure out what made any alleged UFO from Roswell tick in that space of time, then either it never happened, or the government scientists are all idiots. And don't claim that things like stealth tech resulted from alien technology. Give humanity credit for be

Re:Put your tin foil hats away, please

[Moldy-Rutabaga]

>The conclusion I have come to is that the Roswell case is a conglomeration of multiple accounts of unrelated occurences occuring over the span of ten years that were later cobbled together into a single, misinformed account.

This is excellent writing. Thank you for the voice of sanity. I often wonder how the same government which can't balance a budget, and can't hide from the public either bugged party offices or intern oral sex, is capable of covering up Kennedy's FBI assassination, a faked moon landing, and space aliens. This is not a criticism of the American government, rather the reality that they are human beings like us who make mistakes.

I agree with a previous poster who claimed that the desire to believe in conspiracies alleviates some from accepting that life can be unpredictable and tragic--one loony can, in fact, go out and kill the president. I do not think that condemning those who have religious belief for the same reason is a good comparison. Believing that God has a personal and historical relationship with man, and being in a community with extensive written records of this relationship going back thousands of years, is not the same as believing Elvis is alive because the Midnight Star says so. If one doesn't believe, fine, but I don't think the situation is equivalent.

Ken:>

Re:you skeptics amaze me...

[stwrtpj]

Then, the Air Force said the *alien bodies* were actually dummies used in testing human conditions at high altitudes (ie. ejecting at high altitudes), yet the tests didn't start for 5 plus years AFTER the *Roswell Incident.*

And the first tinfoil hat conspiracy theories did not come up until years after this

Read my rant titled "Put your tinfoil hats away, please", and educate yourself.

He was asked what was inside the infamous hanger, and he said never to ask that question to him again.

OMG, yes!! Wow!! Thanks for reminding me of that! Yes, wow, that one statement conveys sooooooooooooo much. I'm so, like, totally enlightened now! Of course, when someone answers a question like this, it certainly MUST be code for "There's an alien spacecraft in there, but you didn't hear that from me."

Dude, do you think that just MAYBE his response REALLY meant: "I've been ask that same assinine question before by every single UFO nut out there, and I'm goddamn fucking tired of it."

Re:Of course it won't...

[sebi]

If these declassified documents are truly complete, there HAS to be a reason they were classified in the first place.

Maybe the fact that Roswell, according to the article, was "home to the only atomic bomber unit (at Roswell Army Airfield) in the world" had something to do with it. We are talking 1947 here. The war has ended two years ago and the fight against commies is on. Could it be that all documents from that base were automatically kept secret? Were you able to look at the records from the 3rd of July 1947 before now? What about the 5th?

Manhattan Project

[sprayNwipe]

The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance.

I'd say that they managed to hide the development and creation of a nuclear weapon, on a project with thousands of staff, pretty well.

The problem with alien life is that there can never be any proof to say it never happened - after all, you can't prove nothing. The only way this would ever be resolved is if the US Government did end up doing something in Roswell, and then admit it sometime in the future.

Re:It Took Them 56 Years to do What?

[Idarubicin]

It took them 56 years to say that nothing happened. Yeah, right.

Ask a Pentagon official about something classified. Go ahead. Try it. The answer you get will be along the lines of "We can neither confirm nor deny..."

If they said, "Well, I guess it won't hurt this time to tell you that nothing really much happened at Roswell, and we classified our investigation because we were embarrassed to waste all that time and money..." What would you think? The next time you ask a question and don't get more information, you can think "Ah hah! They're really hiding something good, now! If there was nothing to this story, they would say so." And so the whole 'neither confirm nor deny' practice goes out the window.

Re:GRAMMAR NAZI says:

[Sj0]

How many people do you see using the word 'aint' on slashdot? There is a certain level of formality required to sound intelligent, and for the most part, that is maintained on technology sites like this one. You'll also notice that few, if any of the people on this site use casual internet-style, such as "Wow! U R Soooooooo Kewl!!!!111" on slashdot. Thank god.

The protocol of a fairly formal writing style on this site also helps root out local slang, which would be inappropriate to use.

Therefore, 'irregardless' shall remain incorrect, or it will mean 'with regard', since it is a self-contained double negative.