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Cable TV Ruins Bhutan

Christ-on-a-bike writes "This article in The Guardian discusses the negative impact of TV on the population of Bhutan. It has only been legal there for four years. Violence, crime and drug use are on the up. Was this inevitable, and what does it say about the influence of TV on Western cultures?" Our previous story about Bhutan talks about the radical impact of television, but without as much emphasis on the darker side.

61 of 483 comments (clear)

  1. Still... by DumbWhiteGuy777 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Still, it's gotta be worth it. Maybe they even get the Simpsons.

  2. Learining by example by pjwhite · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People learn by example, and with so many bad examples to choose from on TV, it's not surprising that a previously "untouched" culture should be negatively affected.

    1. Re:Learining by example by NickFitz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your definition of an "intelligent adult" is itself conditioned by the social context in which you were raised (which didn't seem to rate orthography very highly).

      I read this article in the print edition earlier today, and feel that your point is perfectly addressed by the words in the conclusion:

      But television is a portal, and in Bhutan it is systematically replacing one culture with another, skewing the notion of Gross National Happiness, persuading a nation of novice Buddhist consumers to become preoccupied with themselves, rather than searching for their self.

      Some may think it's naive of a nation to base its national goals on a "Gross National Happiness" metric; I think we could do a lot worse. Don't slag off the people of Bhutan until you appreciate what they had, and appear to be losing.

      But also bear in mind that this article isn't claiming that there is any definitive proof that the advent of TV is destroying Bhutan's society; it's raising a question which is being debated by the people of Bhutan, the question of whether or not TV is having an adverse effect on a land which has been one of the last bastions of civilisation without the thirst for mass communication.

      Om mane padme om :-)

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    2. Re:Learining by example by dubStylee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see what's so wrong about destroying a backwards feudal society

      And you probably don't even see the irony in your own statement. To me, a society that produces scum like you who think it's ok to destroy other societies because of how *you* define "backwards" has got to be the most backward society on earth.

    3. Re:Learining by example by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Listen, Westerners are exposed to all sorts of lifestyles, including "backwards" ones like Bhutanese culture. However, you don't see many of us living on top of mountains without electricity, running water, or television. Why? Because we like our modern society.

      No one is forcing the Bhutanese to change. They are making the changes themselves. The Bhutanese people have been exposed to the Western lifestyle, and they are finding that they like it. It's not like we are marching in with tanks and forcing people to watch "The Simpsons" at gunpoint.

      If you want to help sustain a feudal society, pack up your bags and go live in one. Give up your TV, your computer, your instant dinners, your modern medical treatment, and your hot and cold running water and go live on top of a mountain somewhere and eat Yak cheese (which probably is good). The reason that you don't move to Bhutan is that you aren't interested in giving up your lifestyle for $1,200 a year and all the buddhism you can stomach. Apparently some of the folks in Bhutan feel the same way.

      Keeping people in a bottle so that you can preseve their culture is like keeping your four-year-old girl in a closet so that Satan can't tempt her. No matter how good your intentions, the action is flat out wrong.

    4. Re:Learining by example by tigertigr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Reminds me of in the book The Tipping Point, Malcolm Gladwell talks about how suicides increased in Micronesia after reports of suicides started appearing in the papers. He argues that the idea of offing yourself just started spreading after more people "discovered" it and soon more and more started doing it.

    5. Re:Learining by example by dubStylee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not like we are marching in with tanks and forcing people to watch "The Simpsons" at gunpoint.

      If you think guns are the only way to abuse power, perhaps you missed a little company called Microsloth. No one came with a gun and forced (almost) everyone to stop using Nutscrape either.

      Keeping people in a bottle so that you can preseve their culture

      I agree, where in my posting did you see that I said anything about what should or shouldn't be allowed in Bhutan? I am not about to forbid anyone from using windoze. That doesn't mean I have to like it when they do.

      Do you think that TV and instant dinners and hot water make rich countries morally superior to "backward" countries? Is that how you judge progress, simple physical wealth? If so, then that defintily rates as backwards in my book.

    6. Re:Learining by example by flacco · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Intelligent adults are supposed to be able to know how to temper thier actions. Blaming the TV by claming they are mimicing the TV donest say much for ones opinion of the people themselvs.

      I think your view is unreasonably idealistic. We greatly overrate ourselves when it comes to our ability to control what we believe, and most of us are largely unaware of our own psychology.

      I believe that the omnipresent media constantly washing over us affects us all in ways that we aren't even aware of, regardless of how smart (we think) we are.

      One of the more visible social effects of this is the way advertising induces people to make stupid purchasing decisions. There are huge inefficiencies in the economies of free markets because of people's weak minds and manipulation by the "controlling classes", directly through advertisers and indirectly by their agents in the popular culture.

      naturally this capability is applied to domains other than product marketing as well.

      It's the new and improved thought control - now with a sweet mango-passionfruit twist that consumers can't resist.

      --
      pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
    7. Re:Learining by example by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People are also egotistical. Most people find the idea that television can affect them insulting.

  3. programming, not television by 73939133 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems to me that the problem is the programming, not television itself. Maybe instead of opening up television to everything, the country could have opened up selectively: educational programming, non-violent programming, etc.

    If the US can prohibit nudity and profanity on television, it seems pretty reasonable that other countries might prohibit violence, greed, commercialism and consumerism, etc.

    1. Re:programming, not television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "If the US can prohibit nudity and profanity on television, it seems pretty reasonable that other countries might prohibit violence, greed, commercialism and consumerism, etc."
      I very much doubt this would have much impact in the US, it amazes me how people can blame TV for serious socital problems, it's completely naive and borders on the abusrd, and has worrying parallels with troublesome dogma seen underlies the likes of the Taliban, their banning of any free expresion clearly lead to Utopia.

      All TV does it reflect the society or country it resides in, if you banish drugs/sex/crime/greed from US TV overnight do you seriously believe those vices will instantly disappear from society? These are wider social and political problems that require creative thinking and hard choices in the real world, trying to deny the existence of problems buy censoring them, or trying to censor them, on the broadcast media doesn't solve anything, it's simply indicates a society in denial.

      However, this conceit hardly surprises me, I've seen maddening amounts of puritanical religiosity in the US, they truly lead the Western world in this deptartment, but they also lead the same world when it comes to violence, infidelity, divorce and acrimonious litigiousness. Faith is simply to sooth the conscience, the very fact it's so insincere makes it worse than pure dogma, because it can be manipulated on a whim, the same goes for banning the expression of undesirable things, it doesn't make them disappear.

      (Cue, -1 troll, Un-American, another cynical Brit who see's things too clearly).
    2. Re:programming, not television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are completely incorrect.

      Do contented happy people who are happy with their lives to become crimials? The answer is obviously no.

      The real cause is information. The people of Bhutan are now bombarded with a million new concepts that they had not considered before. Now that they have learned more about the real world, and not the government approved world, they are more jaded and unhappy about their place in it.

      Drugs for example...the government probably told them for years that illegal drugs would do everything but melt their brains 2 seconds after ingestion, but then they see some guy on tv doing it...and he is perfectly normal afterward. So they are more receptive to the idea when they encounter drugs...then they discover their governement was lying to them, and they become even more jaded.

      Why should the average citizen of Bhutan making less per year than Americans make per paycheck not do whatever they can to make their lives a little better?

      In the long run this is a good thing, because along with the criminals come ever more people willing to work even harder to make their lives better, now that they know a better life does exist. Ignorance may be your bliss, but it is not mine, and neither is it Bhutan's.

    3. Re:programming, not television by 73939133 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it amazes me how people can blame TV for serious socital problems, it's completely naive and borders on the abusrd

      No, what is "naive and absurd" is to believe that people can watch something as graphic and emotional as television for (on average) hours a day and not be profoundly affected by it. And corporate America disagrees with your view as well, otherwise they wouldn't be spending billions on television advertising every year.

      A lot of current television sets political agendas, it instills irrational fear for political purposes, it causes people to overeat and overconsume, and it glorifies violence and casual sex. And campaigns like anti-smoking commercials show that even a little bit of positive television can have a big impact. Improve television further and you will reduce many social ills.

  4. Culture Shock, not "evil" TV by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like culture shock. Here we have an isolated religiously traditional culture suddenly exposed to new ideas and different lifestyles and we don't expect some kind of shock?

    I don't think we're seeing negative elements suddenly overtake their society but the expression of human nature in a very dramatic way. The religious take on the "good life" simply folded for many of them and new avenues of expression opened up. This is the teething stage, soon they'll learn to live with information or, much less likely, crumble under the weight of it.

    Culture shock has happened countless times through history. Technological advances, influx of immigrantion, sudden changes in government leadership, etc all contribute to the destabilization of the status quo. Its far too easy to bash television here, its just the medium and whats more important is how the new messages interacts with old messages.

  5. Remember kids: by freeweed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Correlation != Causation.

    Just look at the article itself:

    In June 1999, Bhutan became the last nation in the world to turn on television. The Dragon King had lifted a ban on the small screen as part of a radical plan to modernise his country

    Call me naive, but I seriously doubt cable TV was the ONLY thing done to 'modernise his country'. But, telling the whole story never sells eyeballs, now does it?

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    1. Re:Remember kids: by kurosawdust · · Score: 4, Funny
      But, telling the whole story never sells eyeballs, now does it?

      Selling eyeballs probably fucked 'em up plenty, too.

    2. Re:Remember kids: by Cyberdyne · · Score: 4, Insightful
      In June 1999, Bhutan became the last nation in the world to turn on television. The Dragon King had lifted a ban on the small screen as part of a radical plan to modernise his country

      Call me naive, but I seriously doubt cable TV was the ONLY thing done to 'modernise his country'. But, telling the whole story never sells eyeballs, now does it?

      Quite. If you look, you'll notice one of the murders being blamed on TV was this one:

      Three days later in Thimphu, Bhutan's sedate capital, where overindulgence in rice wine had been the only social vice, Dorje, a 37-year-old truck driver, bludgeoned his wife to death after she discovered he was addicted to heroin.

      Yep, obviously all TV's fault. Or this one:

      In Bhutan, family welfare has always come first; then, on April 28, Sonam, a 42-year-old farmer, drove his terrified in-laws off a cliff in a drunken rage, killing his niece and injuring his sister.

      The first one reminded us alcohol abuse was a problem before. We have two murders: one by a guy on drugs, the other by a drunk - how is either of these TV's fault? Did the first guy get his heroin via the TV? Did the other get drunk (an existing vice, as the article points out) from a program about alcohol?

      TV is a convenient scapegoat. Dealing with the reality - that these people have led very sheltered lives so far, and are struggling to deal with life now some of that isolation has ended - is much harder.

  6. Just wait... by Polo · · Score: 5, Funny

    wait until they get GTA3...

  7. Some of the Best Quotes... by Michael's+a+Jerk! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "We cannot blame the schools alone for the dismal decline in SAT verbal scores. When our kids come home from school, do they pick up a book or do they sit glued to the tube, watching music videos? Parents, don't make the mistake of thinking your kid only learns between 9:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m."--former president George Bush

    If you came and found a strange man teaching your kids to punch each other, or trying to sell them all kinds of products, you'd kick him right out of your house, but here you are; you come in and the TV is on, and you don't think twice about it."--Jerome Singer

    "Television is basically teaching whether you want it or not."--Jim Henson, Muppets creator

    --

    I'm not Seth.

  8. Newsflash: we do what we see by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Violence, crime and drug use are on the up. Was this inevitable, and what does it say about the influence of TV on Western cultures?

    It says what we've always known: that behaviour is heavily influenced by observation. Put a kid in an environment where everyone throws their rubbish in the bin and he'll do the same. Put the same kid in an environment where everyone throws stones at people with red hair and he'll do that too.

    Bombard a kid 24/7 with images of guns, explosions and murders left, right and centre and he'll want to join in the action. We learn by repeating what we've seen so it's a natural reaction. Why expect a kid that watches violent cop show after violent cop show to be a perfect angel?

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Newsflash: we do what we see by ch-chuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Isn't there more to it than that? Most all entertainment involves some kind of story and plot - what if the show with everyone throwing stones at people with red hair ends up with the stone throwers arrested and locked up for a year? Or better yet, the redheads go get bigger stones, clobber the bad guys, then put all their rubbish in the bin? That is to say, it's not just the act, but the moral consequences of it.

      I'm sure there were Bhutanese myths, stories or kabuki theatre with very violent scenes. Even the bible beaters complaining about trash and filth in modern media have to admit the old testament has some pretty gory stuff ;)) (I'm thinking of the fat king who came out of the toilet and had a sword shoved into his belly so far the fat covered up the handle).

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  9. Hard to call by The+Bungi · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It's easy to dismiss things like these with a "oh, that's impossible", but it's really hard to tell what type of impact this sort of culture shock will have on an isolated society. Take for example this part of the article:

    Every week, the letters page carries columns of worried correspondence: "Dear Editor, TV is very bad for our country... it controls our minds... and makes [us] crazy. The enemy is right here with us in our own living room. People behave like the actors, and are now anxious, greedy and discontent."

    Is this stupid? Funny? Bizarre? Remember that Bhutan does not follow the same societal traits we are accustomed to in the west. I'd be inclined to see this report in a different light for just that reason.

  10. Re:Oh, give me a break by Michael's+a+Jerk! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the quotes from My Other Post is

    If you came and found a strange man teaching your kids to punch each other, or trying to sell them all kinds of products, you'd kick him right out of your house, but here you are; you come in and the TV is on, and you don't think twice about it."--Jerome Singer

    --

    I'm not Seth.

  11. Reminds me of Fiji, 1995 by gmajor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In Fiji, a big woman was considered to be beautiful. But after tv was introduced in 1995, Fiji saw a sharp rise in anorexia among girls.

    But surely there must be more beneath the surface than blaming our beloved television? TV seems too simplistic of a cause and too easy of a scapegoat, much like rock music/Doom is blamed for corrupting our youth.

    Fiji story:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/347637.stm

  12. 2 Pence by Ken@WearableTech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know when I see people who Rape, Steal and Kill, they are just victims of TV.
    When will we learn that we don't have freedom and are doomed to do what ever
    (negative) thing we see on TV. Bullsh*t.

    I really have to doubt that this article is truthful for a number of reasons.
    According to the article the MIDDLE class citizen makes 1000 pounds a year. Just
    the cable subscription would represent 5% of their income. The article later
    states: "Almost 50% of the children watch for up to 12 hours a day." 50% of what??
    The whole population? BS. They could never afford it. But if a culture is letting
    ANY large amount of kids watch 12 hours of TV(out of a maybe 12-14 waking hours), rather
    then say oh, I don't know, educate them, don't be surprised if it is a sh*twhole.

    TV, is not crack cocaine. It is just entertainment. People used to sit and
    listen to radio just like they watch TV and little Timmy didn't cut people
    like pirates or shot-up banks like a cowboy.

    For a change, take personal responsibility.

  13. Re:Oh, give me a break by quasi_steller · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do you say that because it is true, or because you want it to be true?

    As much as you (or I) may not want to admit that people are effected by television, vidio games, etc, the evidence on the contrary needs to be considered. What if what we are is shaped in part by what happens around us? Should we ignore the possibility of any negative (or positive) affect that entertainment has? Maybe we should be more careful about what we are entertained by.

    Oh, and by the way, I do play some FPS games, but I am not going to claim that because I don't want those games to have an effect on me, that they don't. The possibility does exist.

    --
    ...interesting if true.
  14. Re:Oh, give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It doesn't mean you solve your problems with violence, but we are nto the best judges of our own behavior. In working in treatment situations, I've often seen people be rude and bully staff, but the next day they talk about how they think they are a polite person and treat everyone with respect.

    I've seen, over and over, in treatment situations, in teaching, and in real life, incidents where people find subtle ways to act out what they see on TV or watch in movies or play in games. People that watch shows like (and this is just an example here), "The Waltons," or "ST: The Next Generation," where people usually find peaceful and healthy ways to work out their problems are much more creative with their conflict resolution skills.

    I remember one time, specifically (and there were others, this just stands out strongly in my mind) where I was working with someone with a group of teens in an overnight setting. The other adult had worked with them to pick out videos to watch. Everyone was quite cooperative up through watching the video, which was some type of ultimate fighting championship. Once that video was over, the teens were no longer cooperative and argued with us on every little point. This continued for the rest of the night.

    I can only wonder, when watching one video can disrupt a group for the whole night, what watching violence over and over and over on TV, movies, and in games, does to a person's way of thinking.

    As I said, I've noticed that people who watch shows that use other ways to resolve conflicts tend to be more creative in solving disagreements. We don't just "turn off" one style of thinking and "turn on" another because we're watching TV or playing a game. Think about an athlete who trains over and over so their reflexes are fast. They're burning the habit into their neurons so they can perform an action quickly, without thinking about it. When the situation comes up, they do it without thinking.

    The same happens in behavior. If we keep seeing violent or disrespectful behavior used in interatctions with people, it becomes expected and habitual. We are the sum total of all our thoughts, words, and actions. The more our head is filled with violent thoughts, the more likely we are to act in a manner close to violence and with less respect for others.

  15. Re:Oh, give me a break by rindeee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah. Really! Watching TV doen't affect your inclination to do what you see others doing while viewing. Sheesh...idtiots. That's why commercial air time is a mult-billion dollar a year industry.

  16. Re:Oh, give me a break by DrStubbs · · Score: 5, Interesting
    How was this modded insightful? The "it's entertainment" argument, while arguably valid in most contexts, contributes nothing to the debate on how television affects society's Gestalt, Zeitgeist, or any other fancy German terms referring to sweeping changes in the whole.

    The road to television in Western society was an evolutionary process, and people's mechanisms for dealing with the new media likewise had a chance to incrementally develop. Not only that, but here in the 21st century, we've been part of a television-saturated culture for our entire lives and have reasonably developed very personal, robust and informed means of coping (e.g. media cynicism). So our relationship with TV is quite exceptional and particular to ourselves, and is certainly not a good barometer of the medium's "innate" effect on an arbitrary civilization.

    Given that, it very possible that TV's influence on the human psyche is an inherently destructive thing, and that we have simply developed defenses strong enough to glean the good from it.

  17. Four Years... by andrewski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is Cable the only thing that's happened in Bhutan in the last four years? Probably not. I would bet that the rises in crime, violence, and drug abuse have more to do with the fact that Bhutan is constantly shat upon by the west, economically at least.

  18. no tv when i was a kid by pioneer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    for about four years my parents unplugged the TV. that was basically 8th grade through most of junior year of high school. and to be quite frank those are still my most productive years. i wrote more code and learned more outside of school during those years than i have learned on my own for the last 6... crazy. and i'll add one more thing, the thing that brought my incredible self learning to end was first college applications and then college when i was forced to sit down and be taught rather than exploring and teaching myself...

    now i certainly played video games during that period so i wasn't completely immune to imitated violence completely, but i certainly kept out of trouble ...

    TV rots the mind... specially in the crucial early years... if your typical day is get home watch 2-4 hours of TV than you are falling behind your potential...

    crazy thing is now i use the internet like the TV. i have my "channels" (websites) that i check often, don't really stray that far. and i check them constantly even if nothing has changed. i waste so much time with the internet its stupid. don't get me wrong some things i do are impossible without the internet and when i do use it to research its fantastic...

    so i think what's happened to TV will happen to the internet... most content in the hands of a few corporates and nothing really "on" even though we have tons of channels

  19. everybody == me by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. I watch wrestling, but that doesn't mean I solve my problems with violence.

    You are assuming everyone has the same frame-of-mind/state-of-mind/mental capacity/etc as you. There are people smarter than you, and there are people of less intelligence compared to you.

    I think this is a common incorrect assumption. Eg.

    • "I grew up in a tough neighborhood, and I came out ok, so everyone else should do it"
    • "The software interface is intuitive to me, should be for everyone else, right?"

    You do not represent everyone else, and you may not represent the common person in Bhutan either. Plus, society does have a responsibility, I believe, to make some attempt at protecting the impressionable ( eg. kids, mentally incompetant )from acts expressing moral standards that have been found by that society to be below what they think is appropriate.

    Step out of yourself for a minute, and understand that your moral standards, and way of life is not acceptable to everyone else.

    I bet you think that none of that tv you watch on television "affects" you, right? Most of us do, and I'd bet we're wrong.

    --
    Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
  20. True by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But some people around here seem to belive that Correlation cannot mean Causation. Clearly this is false.

    Correlation means that two things are connected in some way, and that way may be causial.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  21. Re:Oh, give me a break by phyrestang · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And then again, many of us are not. Look at today's population. Do you spend any amount of time conversing with the "average" person? As a helpdesk tech I spend most of my day explaining assinine things such as "no the computer won't work in a power outage". I even found myself explaining what a power cord was and what it is used for. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who says we should change the amount of sex/violence/whatever on TV. Quite the opposite actually. The way I see it we have two problems: 1) Violent/sexual content on TV 2) People dumb enough to model their lives on said TV content Instead of altering the TV content to suit the idiots of the world, we should be working on reducing the amount of idiots present in todays society. PS: If this post made no sense whatsoever, please disregard it. In typical geek fashion I'm currently running on 2 hours sleep in the last 2 days.

  22. Random thoughts on Bhutan, TV, and Freedom by Nova+Express · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A few random thoughts on the subject:

    1. Don't trust everything you read in a newspaper. Ever read an article on computers/Linux/etc. in a newspaper, and notice all the errors in it? Well, just about every article in a news paper is riddled with the same kind of errors, but since it's not in an area you have particular expertise in, you don't notice it.

    2. Especially don't take anything at face value that fits so neatly into the ideological orientation of the paper in question. In this case, The Guardian is well known for it's leftist slant, and things that slide smoothly into its ideological reality filter (Western Culture Bad! Cultural Imperialism Bad! Consumerism Bad!) should be especially suspect. (Likewise, a news source tends to be at it's most trustworthy when it publishes a story sharply at odds with its natural idiological inclinations, such as The Guardian recent story about how the Baghdad Museum looting story was a complete crock.

    3. Be especially suspicious of any story that was compiled by "fly in" reporters new to the scene. Especially when they don't speak the local language. I'm willing to bet good money that the two reporters named are not permanately assigned to Bhutan. There's just no way for us to know that Bhutan was really the idyllic, crime-free paradise the reporters claim it was before the advent of The One Eyed Idiot God. The reporters could be mistaken, could be lied to by people with their own agenda (be they politicians, police officers, religious officials, etc.), or could simply be taken the facts that only fit their story's arc. There are any number of ways in which this story could be spun to make things appear worse than they really are, any number of contributing causes that go unmentioned, etc.

    4. However, for the moment, let us suppose that everything this article suggests about TV ruining Bhutan are true. Some posters seem to suggest that letting TV be introduced was therefore a bad idea. Are you really willing to advocate freedom for yourself, but not for others? If so, it's an example of "compassion as contempt" writ large. It also suggests that the Bhutanese aren't worthy of even the freedom you enjoy. "Oh sure, I can be trusted with peer-to-peer file sharing, motor vehicles, and alcoholic beverages, but the Bhutanese can't be trusted with TV." Short of actually advocating violence against them, that's about the most racist, arrogent, paternalitsic, ethnocentric attitude possible. "We must save others from our culture." It's like saying that we have to remove liquor stores from around indian reservations and black inner city neighborhoods because they can't be trusted with the freedom to decide for themselves. It's to suggest that people with a different ethnicity or skin color will never be considered adults. "I am the Great White Father, and I have decided that you should be denied freedom for your own good." It's racist. It's insulting. And it's wrong.

    5. Freedom comes with costs. It means having to make up your own damn mind. It means making mistakes. Either the Bhutanese are a free people, or else they're exhibits at a little ethnic zoo, never to stray beyond the confines of What's Good For Them.


    I say let them make their mistakes, let them figure it out themselves, and let them enjoy the same measure of freedom every other nation in the world enjoys. (And hopefully a lot more than that enjoyed by North Korea, Cuba, Syria, etc.) Freedom has a price, but it's a price worth paying.
    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  23. pfff by mR3p · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?"
    -- Dick Cavett

  24. Re:Oh, give me a break by Bodrius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But you benefit from more than five decades of cultural adaptation to this technology, plus centuries of cultural adaptation to other modern factors that these people haven't faced.

    That's why we can be much more cynical regarding stimuli like television. We had more exposure, and more experience, and learn to filter it with much more skepticism, both personally and collectively.

    A culture exposed to new influences with no period of adaptation can be much more vulnerable, just like people (recent immigrants are a prime target for scams, for example). When information is precious, and you have so little, you tend to take it at face-value more easily.

    TV can be a powerful new influence, because it "trains" people on how to react to the rest of the new stuff.

    Humans are creatures of imitation. Our behavior is defined by models we build on our minds from observation and education. When we don't have a given model, and we don't have enough experiences to observe, we can rely a lot on fictional narratives as models. Books, television, etc.

    Your model, your expectations, how you react for the first time on a court of law, on a hospital, on a date, are heavily influenced by what you have heard from hearsay, what you have read, what you have seen on TV.

    Consider that these people have no parents, friends, or general culture sharing experiences from modern societies. TV is their main source of knowledge such as "this is how you react when you are robbed" and "this is how you react when you rob someone".

    It won't be as bad in a few years, I'm sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if TV is making it worse for a while.

    --
    Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
  25. Not surprised by emaveneau · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There have been the hundreds of studies (laboratory experiments, field experiments, correlation surveys, longitudinal panel studies) all showing a link with viewed violence and violent tendencies.

    Bhutan's experience has already been documented in studies in Canada and South Africa, showing that before TV and post exposure to one channel or multiple channels of TV the children in schools became more violent and the increase was in response to the dose (number of channels). (for notes see the book quoted below).

    Whenever I hear "there is no proven link" I am always shocked by the extreme ignorance. Who said "the Truth is not as important as repetition"? Was it Goebbels or Stalin? Either way here are some quotes from the book, "Children & Television" 2nd edition, Barrie Gunter & Jill McAleer; Routledge. Chapter 7 pages 92,93...

    Exhaustive reviews of the scientific literature on the relationships between television depictions of violence and the aggressive behaviour of viewers have consistently documented how exposure to such content is linked to a likelihood of enhanced aggressiveness among children and adolescents.

    Major reports from leading public health agencies in the United States, the 1972 Surgeons General's report and the 1982 National Institute of Mental Health review, concluded that television played a significant part in the lives of young people and had a general potential to influence their aggressive behaviour. The Surgeon General's report presented findings from a number of original and specially commissioned studies of children and adolescents, which utilized various research methodologies. The overall conclusion of the body of investigation was that regular exposure to television violence is a causal agent underpinning the aggressive dispositions of the young, and may be especially significant among children and teenagers who already exhibit aggressive personalities.

    ... During the 1990s, further reports from the Centers for Disease Control, National Academy of Sciences and the American Psychological Association have provided further support for the conclusion that the mass media contribute to aggressive attitudes and behaviour.

    The American Psychological Association established a Commission on Youth and Violence to examine the literature on the causes and prevention of violence. This commission concluded that American children are exposed to high levels of violence on television, and that heavy viewers of this violence demonstrate increased acceptance of aggressive attitudes and increased aggressive behaviour.

    ... A comprehensive review of hundreds of experimental and longitudinal studies supported the position that viewing violence on television is related to aggressive behaviour (for foot notes and bibliography see the actual book).

  26. Re:Oh, give me a break by miu · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Some of us are quite capable of seperating reality from televised entertainment programs.

    That was not his point. The point was that most people are not as self aware as they think they are. Children especially are often unaware of their motivations or reasons for their actions, but most people who don't spend much time in introspection are subject to not understanding or recognizing their own behaviour.

    --

    [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
  27. Re:Frontline ran a story about this a while back by instinctdesign · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This was recently reran on my local station, and to be honest, I found it nearly painful to watch. As an individual who finds little redeeming qualities in TV beyond PBS, it was quite sad to see such a community that was doing quite well without the negative influences suddenly have to face a new reality. Although I feel TV has its potential, particularly in the realm of education (hence my favor for PBS) or as an avenue to facilitate political or social change, exporting WWE (or whatever its called now) to the world is hardly the most beneficial aspect of our increasingly interconnected world.

    Also, here is the link, well, linked: Frontline: World Also, it has the actual video on the site, as most recent Frontline episodes are, and is worth watching.

    Also, for those who have never seen Frontline, or Frontline: World for that matter, I highly recommend it as one of the last bastions of extremely high quality programming, particularly in the realm of journalism which has been so much under assault by the need to have a story make money rather than inform.

    --
    forma3
  28. Re:Oh, give me a break by TheFlu · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah! I watch Playboy TV all the time, but that doesn't mean I actually have sex.

  29. Why its worth it by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Lets consider an equally shocking fact. Terrorists have above average educations. (it's well documented, so let's not argue). Thus clearly education is not worth it.

    likewise, the leading cause of premature death is accidents, mainly automobile accidents among young people. Thus clearly diving is not worth it.

    Indeed we should all be on some prozium (see Equilibrium) and Drug Evasion should be a cime (see THX 1138) and our minds should be filled with Trivia (see Farenheight 451), because its a well established fact that humans are dangerous if not pacified. Clearly exploration, curiosity, dissatisfaction, and acting on ones ideas are not worth it.

    SO maybe you want to complain that, well, heck, this is "dukes of hazzard" and "freinds" not master piece theater. Having these is not worth an increase in crime, etc... Really? so its okay for you to watch this but well it corrupts "other" people's minds. Right.

    People like this stuff.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Why its worth it by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Informative

      PLease make sure your next post is an apology:

      here is just one of many such articles...no doubt you never saw this because it weas not in USA today, but instead in an actual scientific journal.

      Chronicle of Higher Education

      From the issue dated June 6, 2003

      Seeking the Roots of Terrorism
      By ALAN B. KRUEGER and JITKA MALECKOVÃ

      In the aftermath of September 11, 2001, a consensus quickly emerged that
      poverty and lack of education were major causes of terrorist acts and support
      for terrorism. Subscribing to that theory are politicians, journalists, and
      many scholars, as well as officials responsible for administering aid to poor
      countries. For example, James D. Wolfensohn, president of the World Bank,
      asserted that the war on terrorism "will not be won until we have come to grips
      with the problem of poverty and thus the sources of discontent."

      The consensus is bipartisan. "We fight against poverty," George W. Bush
      said in a speech in Monterrey, Mexico, "because hope is an answer to terror. ... We will challenge the poverty and hopelessness and lack of education and
      failed governments that too often allow conditions that terrorists can seize."
      At the other end of the political spectrum, Al Gore, at the Council on Foreign
      Relations, argued that the anger that underlies terrorism in the Islamic world
      stems from "the continued failure to thrive, as rates of economic growth
      stagnate, while the cohort of unemployed young men under 20 continues to
      increase."

      Many well-regarded public intellectuals also concur. For example, Elie
      Wiesel claimed, "Education is the way to eliminate terrorism." And the Nobel
      laureate Kim Dae Jung asserted, "At the bottom of terrorism is poverty."

      With such a strong and broad coalition in agreement, we asked, what
      evidence links poverty and poor education to terrorism? Perhaps surprisingly,
      the relevant literature and the new evidence that we assembled challenge the
      consensus. In a study we recently circulated as a National Bureau of Economic
      Research working paper, we considered support for, and participation in,
      terrorism at both individual and national levels. Although the available data
      at the national level are weaker, both types of evidence point in the same
      direction and lead us to conclude that any connection between poverty,
      education, and terrorism is, at best, indirect, complicated, and probably quite
      weak.

      Full text
      http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i39/39b01001.h tm

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    2. Re:Why its worth it by alakon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes but the other extreme-- You don't understand, because you don't come from their lifestyle to ours. Imagine you turn on the TV at noon and extremely explicit hardcore porn is shown to young children. That is analogous to what is happening there... the juxtaposition of their "gross national happiness" ideal to amazingly trashy commercialism. Yes, the article is inaccurately suggesting the recent crime was is due to the TV, but the other incidents can be clearly linked. Did you even read the article? Why do you discuss something that you didn't even read!

  30. Re:Not to say television is all good, but.... by zutroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Slashdot put the right spin on it. Kinda.

    The Bhutanese government is now considering whether TV has a damaging effect on the people. It's still an open question. But you have to understand that TV has a much greater immediate impact on those people than we're accustomed to.

    Kids there have started emulating their favorite stars because they treat the TV stars like they treat anyone else. They don't necessarily understand that TV is a caricature of real life. We understand that now; we now have filters in place that tell us that TV isn't real.

    They also haven't gotten accustomed to advertisements. They assume that when a product makes people happy in an ad, it will make them happy, too. So they want more money to purchase that product. Maybe they don't have the means to get that product yet, so they steal. After all, isn't happiness the most important value?

    Some people here may assume that this is a good thing. They're becoming capitalistic, and may become productive in the global economy. But that's not the way that people have to be. Our culture just has the means to project that way of life onto others. That doesn't mean that we should.

  31. It's not only TV.. by Mesozoic44 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There are other economic forces at work here. People are moving into the larger towns from the countryside; there is more trade with the outside world; there is also more crime (mostly theft) because many of the religious artifacts and species which are endangered in other areas now have economic value.

    As the older (non-monetized) economy is disappearing there are many changes in people's roles and in the social hierarchy. Older political hierarchies are also changing as the King is moving the country (with much skill) toward democracy.

    It's not just TV.

    I wish them the best of luck; they are going to need it to keep their bearings in a more globalized world.

    It's not like they have a lot of choice though. At the end of WWII there were three Buddhist kingdoms: Tibet, Sikkim, and Bhutan. Tibet has been absorbed by China; Sikkim was absorbed by India. Bhutan is the last one. If they are going to stay independent they need friends; and to have friends means that they need to trade with the outside world. It's a very special place - I hope that they can keep most of their culture while remaining independent.

  32. Desensitizing Effects... by jhouserizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let me share a true anecdote: In my first year of college, I took a âoewestern traditionsâ class in which we were one day having a lively debate about the affects of TV/movie violence on society. There were the typical extreme liberals speaking out about how it had absolutely no affects, etc. And there were the typical extreme conservatives with the opposite view.

    After a considerable amount of discussion, a young lady (19 or 20 year old) stood up and shared her personal experience on this topic. It turns out she grew up in the middle of no-where New Mexico (or somewhere - I forget exactly where) and there has no broad-cast television in the area, and her parents didnâ(TM)t get a satellite dish. So here whole life growing up, she had no exposure to TV or movies except 2 or 3 times when she was visiting her grandma or something like that. So she goes off to âoethe big cityâ for college, and gets a dorm-mate who watches TV a lot. The first evening in the room, she became entranced with what was happening in the show (some prime-time Cop show if I remember right) and sat and watched. She said that after only 10 minutes of viewing she felt âoeemotionally sickâ, and after about 30 minutes (after watching a few people get shot) she actually threw up! She then said that after living with her roommate for a few months, she only got slightly bothered by such scenes, and after a full year it didnâ(TM)t bother her at all.

    I think this (along with all of the studies, etc.) is direct proof that exposure to scenes of violence is âoedesensitizingâ. Does it mean that watching TV will eventually turn her into a killer? Of course not. But it does mean that her âoepsycheâ no longer panics at the sight of violence, and I donâ(TM)t think that it would be too big of a stretch to say that somewhere in the deep recesses of her mind there is a conditioning that thinks assigns less of a âoebadness levelâ than it once did to acts of insult others, curse at others, slapping others, etc..

    In the end, this same conditioning is happening to all of us. Luckily, most of us have a lot of counter-conditioning to keep our âoemoralsâ system on the side of still thinking treating someone badly is in fact bad. But letâ(TM)s face it, if we never saw someone strike out in anger, never heard anyone curse at someone else, wouldnâ(TM)t we really be less likely to do those things ourselves? Just like so many studies show that someone exposed to domestic violence as a kid is more likely to inflict it as an adult - our brains simply learn patterns of behaviors. Thatâ(TM)s why weâ(TM)re so good at becoming addicted to things.

  33. Re:Not to say television is all good, but.... by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 3, Informative
    I have not read the article, as this kind of voodoo sociology has never interested me.

    Dismissive without investigating it first. An educated way to think.

    This concept isn't "voodoo" -- it has been around for at least 200 years. Probably longer. It used to be called the Werther's effect, and now it's called Social Proof. You can study it in a controlled environment, and easily predict the way 95% of humans will act. The basic idea behind Social Proof is that people look to their environment for clues as to how to behave, but more importantly, they look to the people in the environment that most closely resemble themselves. You can use this for ill or good -- marketers use it to sway your purchasing decisions, filmmakers use it to shock you into buying a ticket, psychologists use it to help people (mostly with phobias, as videos of people enjoying a feared situation can greatly influence people to overcome their phobia). It's how we model behavior. You can call it voodoo, but people put huge amounts of money into the concept, and get results so good that they keep putting money into it.

  34. Old old news by sakusha · · Score: 3, Informative

    Margaret Mead made similar observations about the introduction of TV in Micronesian Islands, back in the 1960s.

  35. Re:Wow, this story is getting around by Selanit · · Score: 4, Informative
    In general, I agree; television does indeed have social effects. However, I have to take issue with your third paragraph:
    On the other hand, I would certainly be pissed off if the government decided I couldn't watch television because it might make me 'violent'. So it would be hypocritical for me to proscribe that for some other nation. And the self-proclaimed "dragon king" of this place has no more right either. Everyone hated the Taliban, who imposed a similar ban on Television, but loves the Bhutanese. Sure, the taliban were all-around evil people, and the Dragon King seems genuinely interested in national happiness, but still. People need to be free to make up their own minds about what information they want to take in.

    1) There is not a ban on television. Nor is the government considering one. Did you read the article? If you had, you might have noticed that it says ". . . in its haste to introduce TV, the government failed to prepare legislation. There is no film classification board or TV watershed in force here, no regulations about media ownership. Companies such as Star TV are free to broadcast whatever they want. Only three years after the introduction of cable did the government announce that a media act would be drafted."

    2) Comparing Bhutan's government with the Taliban is completely and totally bogus. The Taliban took power violently and sustained their rule through violence, including public executions of "criminals" such as women who committed adultery. Bhutan was founded as a Buddhist refuge. Under the Taliban, living conditions in Afghanistan became notably worse.

    Bhutan's monarchy, by contrast, was not "self-proclaimed". It was set up under British influence in 1907, as mentioned here and here. That second source contains, among other things, this information: "Bhutan's third hereditary ruler, King Jigme Dorji Wangchuk (reigned 1953â"72), modernized Bhutanese society by abolishing slavery and the caste system, emancipating women, dividing large estates into small individual plots, and starting a secular educational system. Although Bhutan no longer has a Dharma Raja, Buddhist priests retain political influence. In 1969 the absolute monarchy gave way to a 'democratic monarchy.'"

    What's more, the article we're discussing mentions that "[In] 1998 . . . King Jigme Singye Wangchuck announced he would give up his role as head of government and cede power to the national assembly. The people would be consulted about the drafting of a constitution. The process would complete Bhutan's transformation from monarchist Shangri-la into a modern democracy."

    Listen, sounds like in balance they've been pretty good for the country. Given a choice between living in Bhutan today or Afghanistan-under-the-Taliban, I would take Bhutan in a heartbeat. The main fault of Bhutan's government seems to be that they're embracing foreign ways a bit too enthusiastically. Comparing them to the Taliban does them a disservice.

    Kindly think twice before posting.
  36. 16 khz flyback noise -- violence ? by Mad+Bad+Rabbit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bizarre thought: what if it's not the programming,
    but the recent introduction of TV sets themselves?

    The flyback transformers in cheap TV sets tend to
    make a very high-pitched whine (around 15.75 khz).
    Most adults cannot hear this frequency, especially
    if they have become deaf to it from a lifetime of
    TV exposure. Those who /can/ still hear it find it
    extremely irritating [1].

    So, if you take an entire country of adults who've
    retained the ability to hear above 15 khz, and now
    expose them to constant loud subliminal noise from
    cheap imported TV sets, it might very well stress
    people out and cause violence and bad behavior
    even if they only showed innocuous programming.

    [1] Just search Google Groups for "flyback transformer"
    + words like irritating, annoying, etc.

    --
    >;k
  37. Tangos and Schoolin' by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Terrorists have above average educations. (it's well documented, so let's not argue)."

    Terrorist LEADERS are usually above average in education while thier foot soldiers are typically not.

    Tim McVeigh "was very bright, not top of his class, but a solid student. He left school in 1986 and dropped out of college soon after."

    Mullah Mohammed Omar "has no formal schooling. His education consists of training sessions at a madrassah, an Islamic school devoted to the study of the principles of Islam and the reading of the Koran."

    Yasser Arafat tudied civil engineering at the University of Cairo in Egypt.

    Osama bin Laden studied management and economics at King Abdul Aziz University in Jedda.

    Khieu Samphan of the Khmer Rouge worked on his doctoral degree in Paris.

    Pol Pot flunked out of his electronics scholarship in Paris.

    Carlos the Jackal had a talent for languages and had terrorist training at an early age, possibly in Cuba and/or under the supervision of the KGB.

    Khalid Mohammed went to college in North Carolina for a while.

    Ramzi Yousef studied electrical engineering.

    Terry Nichols was a drop-out, loser who couldn't keep a job or a wife.

    Zacarias Moussaoui is said to have a masters degree...

    Adolf Eichmann flunked out of college, worked as a traveling salesman

    Joseph Goebbels studied history and literature at the University of Heidelberg

    Hermann Goering was a badass pilot in WW1

    Reinhard Heydrich was a military cadet

    Heinrich Himmler got a farming diploma from a Munich vo-tech school and later was a chicken farmer

    Adolf Hitler flunked out of art school

  38. Re:I think the article counters the headline best. by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I laugh to think of what chaos would have ensued had we not had 200 years to sidle up to modern life
    Yeah, if it weren't for the great wisdom we've built up from our experience, we would probably do ridiculous things, like vote for whoever has the most/best ads, drink lots of Coca Cola, wear clothing that displays the word "Hilfiger" in huge letters, and go to movies on their opening day.
    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  39. You are not very credible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    1. Hm. You just posted the exact same comment on Fark.com. The duplication of your writings is undermining your credibility through astroturfing.
    2. Whenever anyone starts mud-slinging and calling sources "leftist" / "right-wing" - it's usually an indication that the callee is themselves on the fringes and probably not a credible source. If I were to use same bias you did, I should not believe a word you wrote. For example:
    3. "You're a SCIENCE FICTION WRITER with CHRISTIAN ideals! You're a RIGHT-WING LOON! Yuk!" (See what I mean? Unnecessary mud-slinging hurts doesn't it?)
    4. The Guardian article was very careful to not assign blame and are more or less describing the pandora's box. They do mention the previous government being relatively oppressive, lack of television being one of the last hurdles to overcome. They talk to the teenagers in schools, describe them as bright, intelligent and wired to the world. I wish *I* could get 40 cable TV channels for $4 a month.
    5. I'm a little concerned about your double-standards: In the United States, children allowed to watch TV for 12 hours a day and people too busy to do their jobs because they're watching television - would have people extremely concerned for their mental well-being.

      You're saying that's okay by you for people to do that - so long as it only happens to foreigners?
    6. Sources within THEIR OWN COUNTRY are trying to stop their culture from being washed away. Much like France. I suppose you want France and French Canada to stop requiring French to be learned in schools and products requiring French documentation - all in favor of English?
    7. The article doesn't mention any suggestion about taking television away from the people again. But maybe, I think, that it would be nice for them to adjust to living with it.
    8. Thanks for asininely telling me that "Freedom Has A Price". You sound quite the poster-boy for the current US foreign policy throughout the world: "Enabling 'Freedom' Through Installing Democracy And Christianity".

      And does that mean you advocate legalising crack cocaine and heroine - because you think it's silly to tell people what to do occasionally?


    In conclusion: I think you have one or two good points (3, 1, your conclusion), but the rest are largely stupid. And because this is Slashdot... uh... you're a doodie-head.
  40. "TV violence = real violence" is complete crap by AvantLegion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Counterpoint: Japan.

    ACLU quote: "Japanese TV and movies are famous for their extreme, graphic violence, but Japan has a very low crime rate -- much lower than many societies in which television watching is relatively rare."

    The case of Bhutan almost certainly involves much deeper and more important social issues than cable TV.

  41. Bhutan's culture by bgspence · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I visited Bhutan two years ago. It is a simple Buddhist monastic society with very little contact with the outside world. Tourism is very limited, with only a few thousand visitors allowed into the country each year. Druk Air, the only airline into the country, had only one small airplane. The other had been in England for over a year in repair.

    The people are wonderful. Education is a top priority. It is a very peaceful society, but changing rapidly.

    The temples do not allow photography inside for fear of providing outsiders of pictorial inventories of the priceless artifacts inside. In the previous year a group of Bhutanese bandits from the east looted a temple, killing the monks who did not escape. This would have been an unimaginable event only a few years ago. Desire for wealth obtainable by selling religious artifacts is overtaking the traditional values of the culture.

    Opening a simple, stable, but closed society to western culture through the window of western media and commercial television is an unavoidable disaster. This simple Buddhist culture, with its sane attitude toward the human problem of desire, stands little chance of surviving the desire machine being unleashed there. Western media is the engine of materialism. I fear that western corporate monoculture will win over the minds of youth in a generation. An alternate form of human social existence will be lost.

  42. When some foreign students come to the US by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This article reminded me of things I've seen some foreign students go through in the US. The idea that businesses are happy to screw their customers comes slowly to some. While many (but clearly not all) Americans develop a resistance to twinkies and pop tarts, some foreigners are completely defenseless.

    I have grown up in a culture that, to some degree, "understands" television. I know that both the WWF and the Presidential Debates are complete bullshit. I know I shouldn't trust or believe anyone on television (and many in "real" life). I am beginning to conclude that these traits are cultural and have little to do with intelligence.

    Which means that Bhutan is screwed. I'd far rather see them explore the internet, because it is easier to realize that you are responsible for what you view.

    -Paul Komarek

  43. Correlation and Cause still Confusing? by nathanh · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It has only been legal there for four years. Violence, crime and drug use are on the up. Was this inevitable, and what does it say about the influence of TV on Western cultures?

    It says absolutely nothing.

    Zimring and Hawkins tested Centerwall's theory more fundamentally by looking at homicide rates in four other industrial democracies - France, Germany, Italy and Japan. They found that the incidence of murder in those countries either remained more or less level (Italy) or actually declined (France, Germany and Japan) with increased television exposure. These counterexamples, they write, "disconfirm the causal linkage between television set ownership and lethal violence for the period 1945-1975." [http://www.abffe.com/myth2.htm]

    The "TV breeds violence" myth is a religious cause. The faithful will repeat the mantra despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary.

  44. Not Just TV: High-Tech TV by Brown+Line · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My wife and I have been married 25 years. For most of that time, we've not had a TV. Having gone 25 years without watching TV, I am forcibly struck when I see TV today: not by the programs themselves, but by the commercials. The skill with which they are made, and the forthrightness with which they present their messages of consumption, status, and sex, amaze me.

    We in American and Europe have had decades to become inoculated to television, as the crude technology and sanitized programming of TV's early days developed into the high technology and low art seen today. I can imagine, however, that for someone living in an insular society like Bhutan's, flipping on a set and seeing what's broadcast now would be like getting hit on the head with a brick.

    No doubt there are many factors in Bhutan's social change, but I'm sure that television is an important one.

    --
    [this .sig for rent]
  45. Re:Rots the Mind? by danila · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You are wrong. It's not the programming that is at fault, it is the medium. The pattern of sitting for 6 hours in front of the screen (TV or PC) and passively consuming content.

    Watching Animal Planet is only marginally better than watching MTV. It's the pattern that matters. If you use a particular TV channel once to watch one program about a specific subject you are interested in, that is a good thing, be it Discovery, Fox or BBC. If you watch the same programs for hours every day, you are not learning anything, you are just a TV (Internet) junkie, admit it.

    And the little interactivity that is present on the Internet doesn't matter that much. You could call to TV studio for ages and tell your opinion, or vote on some poll, or ask a question... Whatever. If you wrote an essay after reading some site (or watching TV), discussed it with your professor (teacher, parents, etc.), went to the library and got some books on this topic, that would mean your are actively learning. If not, then you are still just an information junkie using your TV and PC in absolutely the same way.

    The good thing about TV is that you can abandon it altogether and escape its "evils". That's what I did, I don't have it, I don't watch it => good thing. The problem is that I can't do the same thing with computer, but having Internet access it's too easy to fall prey to TV-like content. :(

    --
    Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  46. Re:What one moment! by Zan+Zu+from+Eridu · · Score: 3, Insightful
    America and American's have flaws. BUT and this what people have to realize. Many of those flaws are hyped media stuff. Just like maybe what is going on in Bhutan.

    You are ignoring the fact that the US has a unique set of social problems, and it is exporting those problems to the rest of the world. Europe is a good example of this because western Europe is the main place the US has been exporting its culture to for several decades.

    In Europe we now have: firstly the highschool killings, then there is the 'cripps vs. bloods' style gangsters and gangwars, and young kids arming themselves in general. Examples of sociocultural problems that have originated in the US, but spread to Europe under the influence of US media.

    These problems are related to a cultural difference between the US and Europe. It comes down to how willing a society is to use violence and deadly force against its own members; or to be more exact, the social acceptance of violence as a way to solve (personal) problems.

    Nobody can argue the fact that US media advertise this kind of violence and its underlying idiology, and the examples above should indicate the advertising actually works.