Slashdot Mirror
Body Adornments and a Career?
termilitor asks: "I was thinking about decorating myself with a tatoo. The only argument that holds me back is whether this will affect my career of a mathematician / computer programmer negatively. I would like to ask readers of the Slashdot if they have such experiences, including other types of self decoration, like body piercings and dyeing hair." It's always important to look professional when in the work-environment. The big question, of course, is how many of you believe such things are mutually-exclusive. Wearing a tattoo is a non-issue with the right clothes, but what about piercings and hair coloring? Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?
Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?
most employers take a dim view of self-expression. at least this is true in most of corporate america.
Are you really sure that you want to permanently alter your body? REALLY sure? There is a *reason* they call it permanent. And, for the most part, body "adornments" are pretty stinking ugly. Especially cheek and eye-brow piercings ... ugh. And tattoos are rarely very artistically executed - (there are, of course, exceptions.)
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Unless you're planning on getting "Poor Impulse Control" plastered on your forehead, don't worry about it. People expect mathematicians to be eccentric. In fact, mathematicians who aren't eccentric make regular people uneasy.
In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
--VonNeumann
I've run a consulting business since '94 with a brief break as CTO of a financial software company. I've died my hair a lot over the past 10 years, but never anything too crazy (it's been blonde, and also reddish brown).
Both my tattoos and my piercings are concealed easily by business clothing. I *did* have a tongue piercing for a little while, but got rid of it.
People were always amazed that I had tattoos and piercings when they found out....I guess most people assume that people who have them will have them somewhat visibly.
I guess part of your question revolves around how you carry yourself, too. I've always been a little 'larger than life'...I think if you're not prepared to put yourself 'out there', then you might be right thinking that you could get some negative feedback.
-psy
If you're going to dye your hair purple, then find employers that will hire people with purple hair. Likewise, if you like to wear a suit to work every day, don't work for a bunch of people with purple hair.
I mean, DUH.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Imagine for a moment that you are wearing a leisure suit and a mullet.
Now imagine that they are permanent.
That being said, if you are good and have a good manager, then it won't matter. However, you may have to leave an otherwise satifactory job because of other's stupidity.
"Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?"
Of course. But then, she'd better be a well paid psychic if she's truly going to be a happy medium.
Why all the wierd ask slashdots lately?
-Adam
Many of the people I know don't use their tattoos as a means of self expression. Instead, it some how seems that the tatoo uses the person as a means for self expression.
In other words, everything in their life revolves around their tattoos or piercings. It's all about how society doesn't understand me because I've got "body art". Or I didn't get that job, or get a date with that girl/guy, or, oh my god my life is complete shit but at least I'm expressing myself because I've got body art!
Anyways. I also know quite a few people who do have simple tattoos or piercings that dont get in the way of a normal social life (yes, i'm making an assumption about the definition of normal). You don't have to have "FUCK YOU" tattooed across your forehead.
If the tattoo you are wanting makes you concerned that you won't get a job at IBM or Sun (much less SCO), then you may very well regret it later in life.
If you get a tattoo then you instantly become a social outcast. Your friends will hate you, you will never be able to find a job, even flipping burgers, and you'll never be able to find a signifigant other. Not only that but there is a 100% chance that you will contract hepatitis and of course two days after you get the tattoo you will become suicidal due to the intence depression you feel from having made such a big mistake.
In all seriousness though, a tattoo shouldn't be a big deal as long as it is easily concealed by standard business atire.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Everybody is different, and I suppose I wander in more conservative circles. But nearly everybody I've ever met who has a tattoo regrets it. Several of them are saving for laser tattoo removal. Remember that while the tattoo may express who you are today, you will be a different person 20 years from now. The tattoo might not express who you will be, but it will still be there expressing itself.
Perhaps there are better ways of expressing yourself. I mean, what does dying your hair or getting a piercing say? Everybody is going to interpret it differently, and many of them will get the wrong meaning. If the idea is to make yourself look a certain way, then I suppose it works. But if the idea is to communicate something, you probably could find a more effective and accurate way to do it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
It's easy to understand. Follow me.
In life you have an Image. This Image is how you conduct yourself and how you are perceived by others. Many factors including how you dress, how you smell, how you behave, and how you look all come together to form your Image.
In life, it is one of the most important things that you will carry with you everywhere. It is the first thing that people who meet you will grasp about you. The so-called "first impression" that someone gets of you is based on your Image rather than your abilities.
There isn't any way to neglect your Image. Every action you take shapes it and molds it, so even if you stop taking showers (for example) you have only shaped your Image towards that image. You can "improve" your Image by doing things that impress other people like combing your hair or brushing your teeth or wearing a suit. Likewise you can "damage" your Image by putting giant piercings in your ear or not showering for weeks. The "improve" and "damage" are in quotes because it is up to the individual as to what kind of Image he wants to project, these examples are only using the most general attitudes as a basis for determining Image bettering and Image damaging.
So when a business looks at a person who has "damaged" his Image, it is easy to make a quick judgement call about the person. He does not have enough willpower or drive or ability to take care of one of his most important possessions, so how can he be trusted to control some part of the company (someone else's important possession)?
If you decide that your Image should show that you are a slacker (through uncleanliness) or that you wish to separate yourself from the mainstream (through piercings or extravagant and obvious tattooing), then you must prepare yourself for rejection when attempting to enter the world of business where these things are generally frowned upon.
The only way around this is to build a reputation so that people can have a preconceived notion of your abilities even before they meet your for the first time. A good reputation is many times better than a good Image. However, a good reputation is many times harder to create than a good Image.
I have been pwned because my
I've worn varying amounts of earrings in my ears for years (16 years, 11 of them in 'the real world' of business). Never had a problem. Let me repeat:
:-). Maybe it helps to be in a creative field (computer consulting, but I worked many years at Ford Motor, so that's a pretty 'standard' environment)
:-).
:-)
NEVER. EVER. EVER.
Don't listen to anyone at all who disses this. They underestimate how much people will put up with if you are confident and very good at what you do. I rate the confidence as more key than anything else. If you don't treat it as strange or unusual, people will put up with quite a bit.
Just expect to always be singled out as 'the strange one' in the department. For me, I never cared... either way. I don't get in people's faces with something assinine like "oh! look, look, I'm *different*". Especially since at this point I'm more part of the general crowd than anything
Now, a few cautions:
1) If you get a tattoo, get something you *can* cover up or play down if you are so inclined. Facial tattoos are only for those who really, really don't mind standing out and making compromises due to people's narrow viewpoints. You probably will find you'll prefer it this way anyway... better to have something you can *choose* to share with the crowd at large, because there are times where you'll want to *not* make the tattoo the focus of attention.
2) You will encounter dumb people. You may even encounter personal or career set-backs from this. It's always a chance. Assume that anything that happens like this is meant to be, and that you're better off not around those people or in that situation. If it's your mother crying over this, I suggest flowers and a hug and reassuring her that you're sorry you marked up the body she kept from harm all those years, but you were just expressing the creative side she always told you you had
3) As noted above, plan to be exceptional and very professional in your career. That will overcome any silly preconceptions most people might have. And yes, you can plan to be exceptional... It's pretty rare to be exceptional without putting some effort into that goal
4) Ask rec.arts.bodyart about this if you don't believe me. Tattooed, pierced, and otherly modified folks abound there. Many of them are very successful professionals, including my favorite librarian (hi Kate! I bet you're reading this!)
ciao!
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
I'd get a tatoo of some BSD code, then tell SCO it's some of theirs! They'd probably believe me! A cool employer would understand my deep-seated need to do this.
(of course there's always the danger that Senator Orrin Hatch would find out and attempt to blow up my body, but I'm starting to think that danger was always there)
My company provides data for law offices and provides simple digitizing and digital services for people that don't know how to use scanners or to transfer their old family movies to DVD. Soon we'll be expanding into video production (what I REALLY want to be doing!). In the next few years we'll have retail stores/service centers in malls.
Personally, I think putting something on your body that will fade and look ugly in one's later years, or could be something that simply does not fit your personality after you grow or mature (and I'm not saying tats are immature) is, at the least unwise. It makes no sense to me (but neither do piercings -- even pierced ears on women) at all -- and I'm not exactly known as a conservative.
However it's not my job/business to judge your personal life. I want to know if you can do the job I am hiring you for. (And, from what I've seen in talking to other small business people, if you get a boss/interviewer as open minded as me, you're lucky!)
If you come into my office to interview for a "frontline" job where you're dealing with clients (or working in the storefronts when we have them open) and you have visible tats or piercings other than "normal" ear piercings on women, you won't get a job. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what customers and clients think. I'm not going to take a chance on offending or bothering a lawyer client or a retail customer who may be a fundamentalist or a member of any other group with prejudices against non-conformists. As said elsewhere, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what others (customers and clients) think. I'm not going to let my business lose money because an employee wants to "express" him or her self.
On the other hand, if you're applying for a backline job, like programmer, sys admin, video editor, or even as camera man for our in-house productions, I don't care if you're The Illustrated Man. If you can do the job and interact well with the other employees so then can work with you easily and everyone does a good job, then you're hired.
Just the opinion as a business owner.
As a general person, my thought is tats and piercings may or may not hurt your career, but there's no reason to expect it to help. Why put the effort into doing something that may create problems in the long run?
I don't disagree with most of your point, because let's face it, first impressions are important, and preconceptions are a fact of the human experience (if I had to start at Square One in solving all situations, I could never get anything done... so I must use previous inputs to the system to guide any new experience).
:-).
But I don't think a 'reputation' in the conventional sense is the only way to get around this. I also think confidence and a good self-image help a lot too. I know I can meet people for the first time, totally cold, and usually sway them over to trust me in my field -- because *I* know I know my shit, and I know I can convince them of that... so before we even start an interaction, I've already decided on how I want to be seen. If I waver in that conviction, then my chances of being able to be Myself and also be the person they want me to be (Super Professional Man) go way down.
So, my best advice -- love yourself deeply, and convince yourself that you truly are All That, and you will command the respect you desire. It's all very Dale Carnegie... you think a salesman relies on a previous reputation? He can't, he's always meeting new people he has to make a good impression on from the start. So just sell yourself!
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
As someone that has both body piercings and tats, think very carefully about alterining your body. None of my body art is visible when I am wearing business professional clothing. When I would think about an article of clothing that may be iffy if the artwork showed through, I wouldn't wear it.
The last corporate office that I worked at was an engineering and microelectronic firm. Noone knew about my artwork for almost a year before I saw someone after work and I was wearing something more reveiling. As long as my tattoos weren't seen, there was no issue in having them. The piercing wasn't seen at any time.
When you do decide to get a tattoo, ask around. In most cities there are some great artists that are very skilled at what they do. Same for piercing salons. Ask other people that have tattoos where they got their work done. They will give you a suggestion of whom to go to and whom to avoid. In the Phoenix area, Halo Piercing is one of the best and there are several excellent tattoo parlors - Club Tattoo, Blue Dragon and Artistic Tattoo to name a few.
As another poster mentioned, as long as it's not seen while wearing business attaire, it shouldn't matter about having body art or not.
Good luck in making the decision and take your time in finding what you what as a tattoo, that way you won't regret it. I don't regret mine at all!
design is art - art is design
If you're a woman you can probably get away with it. Mnay traditional, large companies are very strict about how men dress and have their hair etc. but apply much less rigorous rules to their female staff. It's a horrendous and blatant display of double-standards and anti-male discrimination. Maybe it is a relic from the days when people only considrered males to be serious employees and women to be less important? Who knows. I used to work for one of them. When I left I grew my hair. It's half way down my back now and I'll only lose it naturally to alopecia! Finding a good professional job has not been a problem. I think you'll find that the people (companies) who are most successful are the ones that are nicest to work for, and treat their staff with dignity and respect and as individuals.
Stick Men
I got a tatoo when I was 21 on my right bicep. If I wear a long or short sleave shirt (the type with a collar), it can't be seen. When my employers eventually saw it, they were not concerned. This is because wearing normal work attire, it is invisible.
I also got a tongue piercing, and it took a week for it to be noticed by my employers. They didn't seem to mind, and I was still allowed to meet clients because it wasn't obviously visible. I ended up taking it out (after a year) because I didn't want to chip my teeth.
I also dyed my hair black (from dark brown)... it wasn't a big change and my employers didn't mind.
If you do get something done, don't make a big deal about it. Get it done for personal reasons, not to impress your colleagues. Don't go to extremes, be subtle and decorate a location on your body that is hidden by business clothing, but not by recreational clothing (if possible).
PS: Don't EVER get a girl's name on a tatoo... If you want to impress her, get a heart tatoo and write her name across it every day with a permanent marker. You *will* thank me one day.
you should find some older person whose tattoos are
a couple decades old.
take a close look at that 20-year-old tattoo.
really. you want that?
it may look fresh and lovely when it's new --
but it's not always gonna be new.
Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check