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GIF Patent Prepares to Expire

pajamacore writes "It's worth noting that 20 June 2003 is GIF Liberation Day, the day on which US Patent 4,558,302 expires. The patent describes the LZW compression algorithm used in .gif files. That said, maybe the prices of image editing applications will drop slightly when corporations don't have to pay fees to Unisys."

30 of 632 comments (clear)

  1. About time by ne0nex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    About time, talk about a legacy format.

    1. Re:About time by globalar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yet it is still so widely used. The /. logo itself is a gif.

      here is a site that seems appropriate to this thread.

      Bring on PNG/MNG.

  2. What if Unisys forced contracts... by tjstork · · Score: 2, Interesting

    past the end of contract expiration in order to agree to license LZW?

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    1. Re:What if Unisys forced contracts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If they did, then the licensees can simply not pay the fees, and Unisys can sue them for breach of contract, but that's about all. They can't stop them from using GIF, because they don't own it anymore.

      Plus, any other company who wishes to can now produce a GIF encoder or decoder and sell it.

  3. good. by The+Tyro · · Score: 1, Interesting

    though I can't recall the last time I actually used a .gif file (I think it was for a website that I coded a few years back... clipart or some such)

    OK... now can we do the same thing for some of the AV codecs?

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  4. check out MacGIMP.org by ubiquitin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The MacGIMP site is getting ready to release a GIF-enabled build of the GIMP at midnight.

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    1. Re:check out MacGIMP.org by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The MacGIMP site is getting ready to release a GIF-enabled build of the GIMP at midnight.

      How about a collected, integrated XV? It's still the best image viewer IMHO, but it is suffering badly from not being updated in a decade.

  5. Re:Or not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not sure how much, but I work at a medium size company who produces multimedia applications (yes your mom would have heard of us) and .GIF support was expensive enough that we left it out of the product.

  6. Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the recent Slashdot chat:
    02:17 <+Questions> adpowers asks: Slashdot has a heavy slant toward open and free technologies. Why haven't you guys adopted PNGs or some other image format instead of sticking with GIFs?
    02:18 <@CmdrTaco> Because PNG still doesn't work worth shit with most browsers.
    02:18 <@CmdrTaco> We're idealists when possible, but practical when we have to be.
    What browsers is CmdrTaco talking about? PNG8 works great in most browsers, and PNG8 is all that's necessary to replace GIFs. Slashdot doesn't use animated GIFs, so they have no reason to not move to PNG8. PNG can save Slashdot money, as properly compressed PNG files are smaller than GIF.

    I'd pay for a Slashdot subscription if Slashdot switched to PNGs because then I'd see they were bandwidth/cost concious.
    1. Re:Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Kupo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      title.gif = 3.39 KB (3,473 bytes) (Original Slashdot logo on top right)
      title.png = 3.34 KB (3,428 bytes) (PNG8 16 color palette)

      A conversion would make a mere 45 byte difference.

      Oh my... how could I be such an insensitive clod - I forgot some of us are still using 2400 baud modems!

      Honestly, the .gif format works well, and AFAIK, my cell browser doesn't open PNG at all. Not that slashdot.wap uses images, however...

    2. Re:Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Yosho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First, I noticed the title image only has 15 colors, so I changed it to a 4-bit PNG. Then, after running it through pngcrush, it came out as 2,773 bytes. Sure, that only comes out as a 700 byte difference, but after you get a bit of traffic (and you know Slashdot does), that adds up to a lot. Not to mention that that's only a single image -- every Slashdot page has at least that, the Slashdot table widgets, and the section icons.

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    3. Re:Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Captain+Large+Face · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft Internet Explorer, which is used by a significant proportion of the Slashdot readership, does not support transparency in PNG images. From Slashdot's point of view, it makes little sense to switch when the current solution works adequately .

    4. Re:Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Hallow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think this is so much about end user savings. They obviously have to pay for bandwidth, like anyone else. If I was a VA stock holder (who owns OSDN and slashdot) I might be a bit upset at the waste.

      45 bytes x 2.5 million hits/day. (see the recent slashnet log)

      Assume about 2/3 of those are cached, so 45 bytes x ~800,000 hits/day. If my calculations are correct that's something like 34 gigs of bandwidth saved *per day* by moving to png, on just that image alone! Apply those small savings to every image on slashdot, and you're looking at a possible not insignificant bandwidth savings.

  7. Re:Or not... by G-funk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm wondering if the text on gnu.org protesting the patent will disappear :)

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  8. Actually, it is pronounced with a J... by hirschma · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In 1995, I worked for a website called Pathfinder. About half the staff pronounced it GIF, the other half JIF.

    Since we had good ties with CompuServe, the folks that invented/popularized the format, we figured that they'd know the answer. We actually called. And has per the title, the preferred way of pronouncing it is "JIF".

    Yeah, I was pretty disappointed :)

  9. GIF Animation Programs by GoldMace · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So what free GIF animation programs are due out on June 21? It's fun to play around with animations, I just always hated how these programs always had to have an expiration date. I wonder how many more GIF's we'll see all over the web in the coming months.

  10. Re:It makes you wonder... by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the Mozilla developers decided to drop MNG (animated PNG) support against the advice of nearly everyone else involved. Their reasoning was that it took up a whole 200kb of disk space.

    But yeah, it'll remain much better than gif, and all the Photoshop users will say it sucks because Internet Explorer displays them too dark when saved from Photoshop.

  11. What about IBM patent 4,814,746 by DreamMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Whilst it's great that the Unisys patent is expiring, I'm somewhat curious about IBM patent 4,814,746, which also somewhat covers LZW compression. According to US Patent 4,814,746, it covers somewhat of the same area as the UniSys. I know there has been some confusion between the two, although most people seem to agree that the UniSys patent was more applicable to the GIF format than the IBM patent.

    I'm curious if anyone knows whether the IBM patent has also expired? Or if not, when it is set to expire - that's the one thing I haven't been able to find out. I'm not familiar with patent law, so I don't know whether the patent period is fixed or variable.

    Even if it is now expired, it would probably be of benefit for somewhat more familiar with the two patents to discuss the differences between them. I'm sure other Slashdotters would be interested to find out.

  12. Sources differ by yerricde · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Web sites offering legal information (DISCLAIMER: which is not the same as legal advice) disagree. This page claims: "It is always permissible to use a patented invention for research purposes," but this page denies the existence of such an exception to the patent monopoly.

    Any lawyers in the audience?

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  13. Re:Or not... by MulluskO · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's really all a matter or price elasticity. Pricing isn't quite as dependant upon production costs as most people believe.

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    Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
  14. Re:Or not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, the Gimp sucks because its support for well-documented, established, standard file formats like EPS still lags behind that found in simple toys like PaintShop Pro.

    Until it can read and save standard files in a way useful to me for file exchange, I don't care what the UI looks like, what features it has, or what the license is.

  15. Re:Expires on July 7th, 2004 internationally by JoeBuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right, but as most nations don't recognize software patents, that doesn't matter as much as you might think.

  16. Right but.. by msimm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'll bet if open source sites took a little initiative and started using PNG Microsoft would have a reason to fix what is a ridiculously minor bug in their browser. Until then its just another chicken before the egg scenario.

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  17. Re:Prices drop? by gid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Cable TV is subject to competition?

    All depends on where you live. I live in a relatively small town in Ohio and I can get time warner cable tv/cable modem, or the local goverment run cable tv/cable modem. Interesting enough, I can get digital Time Warner cable tv with all the pay channels AND road runner internet service for $72/mo. What's the price for all this if I live one town over? $180-190/mo or so I hear, as no I know would actually order all that shit at that price, but that's what the local Time Warner salesmen tout.

    Me? I choose the local cable company out of spite, and it's comparable pricing anyway, maybe you don't get all those channels, you don't get digital cable, but I don't need all that shit, as I don't watch much TV, besides, they offer a business grade cable modem service with better upload, which is very important to me since i work from home.

    The local town here also runs it's own eletric company, and buys eletricity in bulk from Ohio Edison. The result? Our eletricity costs 1/3 of neighboring communities.

  18. Re:GIF can be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Big deal... both fit in a single TCP packet with plenty of room to spare for HTTP headers, so in the end it makes no difference to the visitor, both images download in the same amount of time. And both fit in a 512 byte filesystem cluster, so they take the same amount of disk space.

  19. Re:Expires on July 7th, 2004 internationally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Internationally here means 'in Canada'. In Europe and Asia, the software patent does not hold water.

    So GIF is free for all of the world except Canada now.

  20. Re:Or not... by Daengbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We are under a Free software revolution in Thailand (see my sig), so I am seeing reviews of Linux / OO.o / others in almost every magazine. The reviews generally run like this: "The program works well and doesn't crash often, but I don't recommend its use because it's interface/hotkeys/configuration is/are not like the equivalent program in Windows that I am familiar with." I do not claim that GIMPcan compare to PS, but we use it full time in my school, and my wife has known nothing else.
    Sometimes she reads books on PS (there are none for Gimp) and says "Wow! that's cool. That takes me xx commands in Gimp," but both she and I know that 90% of the stuff can be scripted, by us or somebody else. I hope to spend some time with Script-fu and get those for her.
    The other 10% is functional stuff that I have no way to fix, like CMYK. We don't do print, just in-house web stuff, so we are fine.

  21. Strange that... by __aafkqj3628 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I find it strange that the main pictures on the UNISYS website (banners, large images etc.) are JPEG. Don't they love their little compression algorythm anymore?

  22. Re:Or not... by Brento · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It worked quite well for the companies that actually did the price undercutting, Wal-Mart and Southwest Airlines.

    You hit the nail on the head. It also worked well for the companies that differentiated themselves by giving a higher level of service and/or product quality, and charged more for it. In the airline industry, Continental has refused to cut meals, service quality, etc., and actually improved service levels - and they're doing quite well. Not Southwest well, but pretty well. In the retail arena, Target is trying to be the designer Wal-Mart, with quality goods from guys like Michael Graves, and doing a bang-up job of it.

    --
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  23. UK/EU Patent Law doesn't allow for LZW by mrthoughtful · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The European Patent Office and the UK Patent Office both categorically state that "An invention is not patentable if it is: ... a mathematical method ... or a computer program.

    Can someone please explain just which UK patent numbers apply to LZW or even better, explain how LZW circumvented the exclusion clauses. I note that Unisys did not mention the European patent numbers in their article.

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