RIAA Not Done With Jesse Jordan

digime writes "In a recent Slashdot article it was reported that 19-year-old college student Jesse Jordan gave up his life savings to the RIAA for running a campus search engine. He has recovered over 83% of his savings lost to the RIAA, and his search engine is back up. "The RIAA started yelling and tried to rescind my order of dismissal after they signed it because of comments that I made on CNN.", Jordan says on his site. "A very well-known top lawyer at the RIAA, while making threats of further legal actions, referred to himself as a 'dentist' that I would not want to 'have another visit with'"

Comments

No new CDs

[nafmo]

Well, I've given up buying new CDs because of the bully tactics from the recording industries.

Re:No new CDs

[Anonymous Coward]

The pits are molded into the substrate (the polycarbonate) and not into the reflective layer. Likewise, the pits that are "burned" into a CD-R are melted into the polycarbonate; not the reflective layer.

In most cases, the reflective layer is aluminum. Some early CD-R's used gold because it was more reflective (necessary because the process of applying a precision coating of dye was relatively new and difficult).

CD-RW's use a completely different technology. The disc is "sputtered" (vapor deposited) with a sandwich of different materials that, when hit with energy of a certain wavelength, undergo a phase change making it reflective to energy at a certain wavelength. Pumping more of the "write" energy into it forces it's phase to revert to the original "transparent" state. This is what makes it re-recordable.

</pedantic>

Re:No new CDs

[Simonetta]

- I would encourage anyone interested in being exposed to new music and not wishing to give money to organizations that will use that money to destroy your life and take your property (you pay enough taxes to the federal government already) to explore the music section at their local library.
Most libraries in major cities in North America have large collections of CDs available for checkout. Be sure to check the on-line catalogs for the best stuff and place a hold or reserve on items that you are even remotely interested in.
With a resource such as this, a new approach towards musical tastes might be cultivated: make an effort to grab CDs that you have never heard of instead of those that you have been previously encouraged to consume by media exposure. In a commercial setting, your music choices are limited by your available funds so you buy and listen to recordings that you know or are similar to those you have consumed in the past, while a library has no monetary limits on your consumption. It is your attention span and the check-out-and-return procedure for the physical library materials that is the limiting factor.
Grab as many CDs as you can physically carry from the shelves and focus on titles that you have no clue as to what they sound like. Try each one in your CD player/PC for a few minutes or bring a portable CD player to the library and take a listen to the CDs there. If they are even remotely interesting, then rip, mix, and burn. Blank CD-Rs are about 20 cents (in the USA anyway) and can store about a hundred songs in MP3 or OGG format. Scan the album covers and insert books and store them in a directory along with the audio MP3s. By the way, a DVD-ROM player will rip an audio 'red-book' CD much faster and more accurately than a CD-ROM.
The CD-R is beginning to show signs of age as medium for trading new music because it is so limited in its storage capacity. Many of us have old hard drives available as we upgrade from 10-15 gig sizes to 100-200 gig drives on our primary machines. Put your favorite newly-discovered music on an older hard disk and trade these drives with fellow music lovers instead of CDs. Be sure to keep the hard disk in an anti-static bag and wrapped in bubblewrap or foam blocks to protect it against shock or bumps as they are quite delicate.
Summing up, the best way to fight the RIAA goon squads and the predatory corporations behind them is to circulate as much new and different music as freely and as cheaply as possible. This is not piracy, this is your birthright. The RIAA corporations are making a massive and bold attempt to seize and control all of the world's culture and heritage. This is like paying off the politicans for patent on air and then demanding that everybody owes them money for consuming their product!

Thank you,
Simonetta
www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2001/virt uebeauty/fantasy. htm

Re:No new CDs

[geekopus]

It has to do with the refractive index of the Polycarbonate. It's index is 1.4 (IIRC), so it tends to act as a little bit of a focusing mechanism. The energy density of the beam isn't focused enough to actually cause a deformation until it's traveled approximately 1.2mm (which just happens to be how thick the substrate is), and even then the material that's being heated is the dye (not the substrate; as you said, it's mostly transparent to the laser). Being pedantic (isn't that what started all this? ;-), yes, you're correct that the laser isn't directly deforming the plastic. Rather it's the dye heating that causes this. But, yes, the plastic is most definately deformed.

Here's one reference. There are probably others you can find. I can tell you from personal experience of examining "burned" CD-R's with an AFM that there are deformations in the plastic.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pits are burned into plastic" and "the difficulty of precision coating the dye". If you don't have a nice even layer (down to a few nanometers of consistency) you can't possibly control what's gonna happen when you hit the dye with power. People have been coating things with layers that accurate for years, but being able to do every second of every day on a consistent basis is a real manufacturing challenge.

I suggest you look at a burned disk via AFM to prove this to yourself.

...Teach him!

[tomstdenis]

That'll teach him that democracy and freedom runs rampant in the good ol' US of A.

What I have to question, do *AA laywers live for bad-press by the nerds of the world? Sure, people are still buying their tripe but the non-nerd part of the world will figure it out eventually. Weird....

Tom

The RIAA are legal terrorists

[Tuxinatorium]

These are the folks who ashcroft should be worrying about.

Re:The RIAA are legal terrorists

[dbrutus]

They have a plan to take care of that. It's called damage caps and loser pays tort reform. Essentially, it takes away the incentive to make frivolous lawsuits. The guy wouldn't need a defense fund, and wouldn't need to settle because he'd simply go through the process and get his lawyer fees back when he wins.

Where's teh EFF ?

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems right up their alley... this kid was running a general purpose search engine. It indexes everything it finds. It returns results. He made no money off of it. He was intimidated into settling, pure and simple.

Can I run a search engine now? Exactly HOW are google and alta vista immune from similar suits? Simple -- they can pay lawyers who could kick the crap out of the RIAA.

It's a travesty of justice. I wish one of the multi-letter organizations would help this guy.

Re:Where's teh EFF ?

[dipipanone]

Yeah, but the law is not blind.

No, it can definitely see the size of your wallet. The problem it has is seeing what counts as justice.

Just because it's only a search engine doesn't exempt it from the fact its primary use was to find and distribute copyrighted materials. The reason google and alta vista are immune is they're searches are not primarily used for illegal purposes.

Bullshit. The law doesn't distinguish what something is 'primarily' used for. If something has a legitimate use, then it's perfectly legal. The primary use of cigarette papers is probably to roll joints these days, but because they can be used to make hand-rolled cigarettes, they aren't illegal. Similarly, look at the recent Californian decision over Kazaa. Kazaa is unquestionably primarily used to download warez, mpegs and mp3's, but because it can have other legitimate uses, their defence against the RIAA prevailed.

As I recall, most states require a permit to own a lockpick.

If so, it's because they've passed a law requiring such. Point us to an equivalent law outlawing the use of search engines...

the law sucks..

[SystematicPsycho]

What sucks about the legal system is that anyone can make something up and file a law suit against you, and if you don't have the funds to deal with and defend the allegation then you're screwed in court.

The RIAA was probably looking to make an example out of this person(making examples out of people is what they love) and probably got unlucky with this guy. The best weapon that these guys _think they have against activity they don't like is a detterant (making examples out of people for fun and profit). They'll do it again at a time of their choosing, they've got the dough and the legal beagles to screw with you.

Lawyers are like legal hitmen, give them enough money and they'll do anything you want - desperados, got to feed the family.

move the site

[rf0]

Would not moving the site and the contents outside the US help avoid this or would the person still be responsbile?

Rus

Pro Bono?

[wbren]

Isn't there any top lawyer who would take this case on for free? It seems like he could fight them if someone would step up and help him with legal needs. It also seems like a great publicity opportunity...

Re:From Slashdot?

[jwilcox154]

Except, this has nothing to do with the MPAA, this is the RIAA we're talking about. Oh, about Boycotts, I have not bought any cds in the past 2 Years "Except, perhaps, blank CDs", I get my music in Analog form now "I.E. 8-Track, Vinyl Albums, Cassette", and not a single penny goes to the RIAA.

The problems are 1. The Teens and Pree-Teens cant "or at leat think they can't" do without the cookie cutter boy and girl bands

2. Even if everyone were to stop pirating their music, the RIAA would still blame the loss of sale on pirating. "And, I imagine the RIAA would consider my activities of copying music from an analog format to a digital format for my own personal use a form of piracy."

Re:I love America

[dbrutus]

Oh, no, N. Korea's an entirely different situation. Who are the Iraqi version of the S. Koreans? you know, the guys with more population, a hugely bigger economy, and right on the border with this lunatic nation of their co-ethnics?

S. Korea, Japan, and the PRC could take apart N. Korea by themselves if they wanted to. But who was able to do it in Iraq's neighborhood and clean up the local bully? Iran? Please. They sacrificed a generation of their children to Iraqi gas and minefields. Saudia Arabia? ROFL! Kuwait? you're kidding, right? Turkey's really the only candidate and they just aren't interested, as taking responsibility for Iraq would set back their ambitions of joining the EU for decades. They've got enough trouble with Cyprus.

But fear not, there are interesting moves afoot in N. Korea and Rumsfeld's likely to soon announce some force structure changes that have already been leaked to the press that remake the old status quo. He's pulling forces back off of the DMZ and it's driving the N. Koreans nuts. How can they justify their repressive measures (which in reality are there to stop revolt) when the great boogie man is pulling his troops off their borders. It also scares the piss out of S. Korea because they have to come up with the replacements for those troops at the DMZ. The extra cost should focus their minds pretty well on the cost of playing friendly with a psychotic regime.

So, at what point...

[stinky wizzleteats]

Do our protests against the RIAA involve torches and pitchforks?

I suppose I should be somewhat pleased that they've given up all pretense of rational public discourse. No one would consider their points valid in the context of a dentist comparison.

Re:thr0d ps1t

[deranged unix nut]

(I am Not a lawyer, so I don't know if this is even possible, however...)

What if every (or a large number of) upset music listeners each filed an individual small claims court lawsuit against RIAA? Would 10,000 simultanious small claims court cases slow them down?

Hey, I have only purchased 50 or so CDs, so I'd be happy with $140 dollars back out of the $700 or so I have spent. :)

Re:It is time for a major BOYCOTT

[jeffasselin]

Yes, a boycott. That way, RIAA sales will go even further down, and they'll continue to blame piracy

"See it's rampant, and increasing, our sales are even lower than they were! We must have the right to destroy those evil pirates' computers"

Which will not help at all until EVERYONE gets in, and that won't happen very soon. And we still need to enjoy music, and some mainstream music is good, it's just that most of it is so identical to the last one out.

The real problem is the power of corporate america, how they can bully through legal system, how they can bully politicians and buy laws in their favor, how it takes a superhuman effort from the populace to defeat such lawsuits or stop such laws from being passed. Congressmen do not really bother listening to their own constituents (as they understand their re-election is more dependent on the cash they get from corporations than on the votes of the people they're supposed to represent), and it takes a LOT of noise to make them do so.

So you either need changes in the legal and electoral system, or you need changes in the rights of corporations. Take your pick. I'd go for some of all three. One, it's forbidden for one party to spend more on defense than the other party can afford, unless you agree to pay for both defenses upfront and cannot get it back later. THAT would deter frivolous lawsuits. Two, No more soft money and contributions are limited in proportion to the number of people living in the area, and donations from a single person is also severely limited. A corporation cannot give more than a single individual could. Three, corporations cannot bring lawsuits against individuals with whom they do not have a business relationship without prior approval from a judge.

Re:From Slashdot?

[John Hasler]

> The Slashdot crowd is all about boycotts, except
> when it makes life inconvenient for them.

Speak for yourself. No MPAA or RIAA member has gotten any of my money in twenty years, nor have I made unauthorized copies of anything of theirs.

That 'dentist' comment...

[Anonymous Coward]

was an unfortunate remark. Remember back in the day when cops were being openly called pigs? There were several national advertising campaigns to refute that term.

However, in spite of the longstanding animosity shown towards lawyers (back to Shakespeare even), the ABA has never done a thing to counter people's opinion of their members. It took them a decade to pass an ethics code that even frowned on an attorney sleeping with a client. Even today it's pretty damned hard to get dis-barred. Too hard.

I know a lot of good, hard working, non-wealthy lawyers. I know more than a few who wonder why they ever got in to the field; as if being an attorney was itself enough to provide some kind of happiness.

But I still think many, if not an outright plurality, of lawyers, especially in corporate circles, are power-tripping dirtballs.

There's a whole lot of media I just do without..

[dentar]

I don't even bother anymore. There's nothing on CD that I even WANT. I'm an old fart now, and don't much care for their content anymore.

I also don't much care for CNN / MSNBC / Faux News, so I don't watch them anymore either. I've also quit watching clear channel stations.

The news, and musical artists, are both manufactured now, nothing's real anymore.

Re:From Slashdot?

[1000StonedMonkeys]

Slashdot is not a single entity.

There are a lot of people that will boycott anything that appears on yro, and there are a lot of people who don't give a flying fsck. Personally I belong to the latter. I don't think what Blizzard did was great, but WC3 was a good game and they got my $30.

Re:violating copyright ok now?

[Anonymous Coward]

technically, no, he didn't rob the bank himself.

he just provided the guns, the get-away car, the combination to the vault, and the map of the exits.

"honest your honor... i had no idea those bad people would use the guns, maps, combination to the bank safe, and the get-away car i gave them to rob a bank."

No criminal charges have been brought against him, nor as far as I can tell against anyone who used his service. If you really think that a crime has been committed then call the police. Nothing in his settlement would have any bearing on the success or otherwise of criminal proceedings if any crime has indeed been committed.

The civil case brought against him has been settled and dismissed with no findings against him and no admission of any form of guilt.

Re:I love America

[jstroebele]

I think you're a bit confused, first off the RIAA isn't a single company.

Second, I think what you say about the RIAA running the US through it's lobbying organisations, is a bit over blown, but let's go with it anyway, if they can buy lobbiest so can other groups such as the EFF, at least that would level the playing feild somewhat. I would like to hear of a more successful system anywhere in the world.

I don't think "daddy's boy" is bullying the world into WW3, lets not forget who was in office when the only other major nuclar power in the world, the Russians, hastly sent tanks and troops in to Kosovo, one wrong mover there and it would of been WW3.

Re:I love America

[kcbrown]

I think you're a bit confused, first off the RIAA isn't a single company.

No, but they may as well be. They're a cartel. The companies (particularly the large ones) that are RIAA members all act in unison, in lockstep.

Such a thing is explicitly illegal, but they have enough money that they can make the entire U.S. government forget about that inconvenient fact.

Legal Ethics violation

[bear_phillips]

"A very well-known top lawyer at the RIAA, while making threats of further legal actions, referred to himself as a 'dentist' that I would not want to 'have another visit with'"

Could this be an ethics violation? Each state bar association has its own ethics rules. It could be possible that making threats like this, threating to rescind a lawsuit etc.., could be an ethics violation. Especially if it was done without any legal basis and only as a threat. It might be good to file an ethics complaint with that states bar. It might not get him punished, but it would probably be a thorn in his side.

A law professor of mine was a US attorney. He said that when they had a case against a mafia figure, the mob attornyes would ALWAYS file an ethics complaint against the prosecutors. The complaints always proved false, but they would show that the mob was willing to fight hard and would sometimes shake up the government attorney. Having an ongoing ethics investigation could prevent an attorney from getting a new job, promotion etc.

IANAL

Re:From Slashdot?

[Qzukk]

I'll tell you what, I haven't seen X2. Or the second Lord of the Rings movie, or the new Matrix movie, or anything else in a while. Not even the second harry potter movie. Thats "haven't seen it at all" not "downloaded some camcorder rip from the net".

Sure, I think I'm missing out on something, but thats ok with me.

Related reading "The Ones who Walk Away From Omelas", Ursula LeGuin short story. Think about that when you talk about boycotting something. Some people feel that the benefits are worth any atrocity, and will just not care about the boycott.

Re:From Slashdot?

[Skiboo]

No MPAA or RIAA member has gotten any of my money in twenty years

Ever bought a CD-R?

New ways to screw with the RIAA?

[GuNgA-DiN]

I just noticed the RIAA put up a new site. One feature they added is the "How to Report Piracy" page here:

http://www.riaa.com/issues/piracy/report.asp

" For those who want to contribute an ounce of prevention, RIAA is making it easy, and potentially lucrative. In August of 1999, RIAA launched its CD-Reward program that provides monetary awards of up to $10,000 to an individual who provides the association with information regarding CD manufacturers illegally producing RIAA member company sound recordings.

Consumers, retailers and replicators can report any suspected music piracy to the RIAA by dialing a toll-free hotline, 1.888.BAD.BEAT, by faxing this Badbeat Form, by sending email to cdreward@riaa.com, or visiting the website at www.CDReward.com."

So, let's get to it! I see a 1-800 number, an email address, and a fax number(1-202-223-8322). What could we possibly do to tie up resources and cost them money? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Re:Search engine might be "back online," but...

[Alsee]

Oh, how useful.

Have you read the terms of use?

Terms of Use: As of January 15, by using Phynd, you agree to have your shared (non-password protected) data indexed. Do not worry, if you do not wish to have your files indexed in Phynd, just add a password to your shares. Alternatively, if you would like to be removed from the database, please use the Feedback form and I will remove you within 24 hours.

Bringing Phynd back up in "dummy mode" is a means of collecting permission to index people's files. His original case was severely prejudiced by the fact that he himself was sharing files. His case was weak because he did not get authorization to index people's files. And he did not provide a removal mechanism.

I am going to seriously oversimplify the settment here and say that it pretty much says that he can't do anything illegal and that he can't knowingly facillitate illegal downloads. If the service goes live again I assume his will honor copyright holder requests for the removal of specific links to infringing files.

This kid's got a huge set of balls flaunting his system in the RIAA's face. It all boils down to whether he got good legal advice or not. There is good reason to think the premise of the Phynd system is perfectly legal. With these minor changes he may be perfectly entitled to bring his system back up. If the RIAA tries anything he may in fact win a suit against the RIAA. Worst case the RIAA wins a hundred billion dollar suit against him and he files for bankruptcy. Not only does he have virtually nothing to lose, it would wipe out the three year $7000 debt he still owes to the RIAA. By suing and winning the RIAA could conceivably wind up getting LESS money from him than if they do nothing.

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