Slashdot Mirror
Building A Homemade Chess Supercomputer
nado writes "There's a new article on Chessbase.com which has
GM John Nunn showing you his chess-orientated PC upgrade to a double Xeon system, with some Fritz benchmarks." Elsewhere in the article, John Nunn discusses the unique computer needs for chess computation: "One of the problems with currently available processors is that they are not particularly well suited to the integer calculations used for chess. A Pentium 4 will be slower at chess than a Pentium 3 of an equivalent clock speed."
And Chessmaster 2000 kicked my arse on a 486!
I've got no chance.
-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
No thanks, I still get my ass kicked when I play chess on my pocket PC yet alone on a chess super computer. Im lucky I can even win in Othello :(
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
I'm working my way up to chess. I'm starting by becoming a tic tac toe master.
- Joe
As this computer was to be focussed on chess, video performance was not important.
Hardcore Slashdot Games readers cringe...We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
IBM's Deep Blue used special purpose chips, so it shouldn't really come as too much of a surprise that general-purpose processors aren't the best for chess computers.
A Pentium 4 will be slower at chess than a Pentium 3 of an equivalent clock speed
...
Just imagine the chess performances of a 8086 at 1GHz. And you get a space heater too, for those cold chess-playing winter nights
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
You should obviously change the game to take advantage of the hardware. Imagine it! Three dimensional chess where each piece has weapons, or magical attacks, deformable terrain, and lots of special effects to make use of the latest video cards! I can't wait!
Yes, it is.
Dear Grammar Nazi,
In your third paragraph you misspelled "sentence" as "sentance" the second time you used it.
Sincerely,
Spelling Nazi
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
That's not insightful, that's dumb.
There is no great difference in performance between the AthlonXP and Pentium 4 lines. The small difference that exists is largely due to platform specific optimizations in the specific software benchmarked. That's relevant in the real world, sure, but it's not a measure of raw perfomance.
I don't think that it is in dispute that Intel went for low IPC/high clock at least partly because it was seen as good for PR -- with the MHz-race and MHz-myth and all.
It's with some humor we now see them back-peddle as they try to sell their high-performance low-energy processors which is clocked much lower than the P4s, but like the AthlonXP-line, have a higher IPC.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
I just turned up a dual Xeon 2.4 rack-mount server for work and it's BIOS mentioned warned us to turn off Hyperthreading for anything other than Windows XP or Linux 2.4 (yeah, mention of Linux in BIOS! :).
:)
Anyways, since I am using linux 2.4, two hyperthreaded Xeons look like four processors to the box, I"m sure it's not the same performance of for seperate processors, but I'm hopeing it's at least slightly better then two non Xeons
The writer of the article wrote that for Windows he prefers 2000 over XP. I am curious if XP (or Linux 2.4) and thus Hyperthreading might help his already built computer with a bit more performance...
Please send all UCE to scally@devolution.com so I can f
So this Brit (who's REALLY good at chess) put together a machine that overall isn't all that stunning, specifically to play chess.
Let me get this straight: he didn't select a purpose-designed processor, he didn't even do a survey of available processors (forget including non-Intel architecures) to see which would give him the best integer performance for the task, he doesn't consider chipset, he doesn't consider memory architecture, he's willing to accept one hardware-caused crash per month, he seems to think that configuring a machine and having his brother put it together is "building" one, and thinks that a purpose-built machine should be able to accept the OS and data (read: disk contents) from a previous machine without hiccough. While perhaps interesting to the chess afficionados, I fail to see the relevance on Slashdot.
Why are we seeing this article instead of something on any one of the serious chess machines? Why is this article more newsworthy than, say, Anandtech or SharkyExtreme or Tom's Hardware's pick for the baddest machine you can currently build? Just because a Grand Master did it?
To be fair, I have great respect for anyone who can attain the Grand Master level -- that's something I'll never do in my lifetime. He's clearly shown tremendous talent and devotion to chess, and my hat is off to John Nunn for that. But he's a computer harware expert? A supercomputer architect? Are we at the start of a new series of Slashdot articles on computers of the Rich and Famous? What's next, diet tips from RMS? Health advice from Linus? The EFF Cookbook?
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
No trees were harmed in your post, but twenty-seven clueless echelon operators were terribly inconvenienced.
Free as in mason.
First of all, the P4 is quite superior at doing tasks that are very mundane and repetitive. So simulators, counters, anything that performs the same operation on multiple data sets time and time again run very well on the P4.
Especially true with RDRAM, which has tremendous throughput but horrible latency.
The classic example of something the P4 is very good at: encoding frames of video into a compressed format such as MPEG-2. It's just cranking away through a big heap of data in a linear fashion.
Secondly, with branch prediction, the P4 out races competitors at some computer games,
Athlons do branch prediction, too. And they have a lower penalty for failure since their pipelines are shorter.
Branch prediction is very helpful also in the field of doing anything more than once because it knows what to expect next, and preps the processor for it.
What?!? Um, actually, branch prediction just keeps the chip's pipeline full. Branch prediction doesn't magically adapt the P4 to process data better, it simply allows the P4 to keep pipelineing instructions after a conditional branch. When a prediction is wrong, it must be backed out, which is expensive... but most of the time the prediction is good. (For example, a loop that does something 1000 times will have a conditional branch that will branch the same way 1000 times in a row, and then branch the other way the 1001th time. The prediction would be wrong that 1001th time, but would be correct for most of the other 1000.)
especially those that are optimised for P4 use.
It is hardly surprising that a P4 would do better than an Athlon at running P4-optimized code. However, this isn't a useless point, because Intel is the 800-pound gorilla and there are games optimized for the P4, and none for Athlons.
But AMD isn't about innovation, they are about making money plain and simple. Instead of making engines that try to predict the next move, they just built their processors with the very minimum everything, strapped on a few extra math units and away we go. This technique is very fast, but it's also expensive as most AMD users have learned, because all those extra adders do is add a LOT of ambient heat as the processor clocks up.
Actually, if you check the Thermal Design Power specs for equivalent-peforming AMD and Intel chips, the AMD chips run cooler.
So the P4 was for the mainstream user, to help spare some time from the physics boundry of the processor technology, and to improve on the things we do most on our computers today (music, videos, games).
Pure revisionist history. The P4 was designed for super high clock rates. They ripped too much stuff out of the design, so the P4 has some bad weaknesses it didn't need to have. That's why it's so critical to optimize code specifically for the P4 -- if you don't work around the flaws in the P4, it really hurts.
The Athlon, while it gets more work done per clock than the P4, isn't perfect. Its biggest problem is that it is physically very easy to destroy: you can fry it, or you can even crack its die trying to install a heat sink. The P4 with its heat spreader is much tougher, and with its built-in thermal throttling is more robust. AMD has learned its lesson, though, and the Opteron is robust.
Intel has aggressively marketed the P4 as The Multimedia Chip, but really an Athlon or a P4 will do well for multimedia stuff. The Opteron, for some specific kinds of tasks, will crush either one, and for other kinds of tasks will be slightly faster. I'm just guessing -- I haven't run benchmarks -- but I suspect that the Opteron will do very well on chess.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I am a go player. When I play chess I raise the pieces high in the air then slam them down on whatever grid intersection I feel like.
I am not popular at chess clubs.
graspee