Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo

TK-421 writes "According to an official Pioneer press release, 'Pioneer is revolutionizing home video recording with the introduction of the world's first DVD recorders featuring the TiVo service. These new recorders offer consumers the control provided by the easy-to-use TiVo service integrated with advanced DVD recording for the option of short-term storage on a hard drive or long-term archival of broadcast programming on DVD-R/RW discs.'" The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

Comments

How long till...

[Basje]

... someone sues them for copyright infringement. The voting boot is open.
But please be quick: you can only vote while no litigation has been announced.

hm

[Frac]

The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

not-inexpensive? I know slashdot editors aim for obscurity, but what's wrong with "expensive"?

Re:hm

[Akai]

expensive is a term no longer allowed to describe home electronics.

It is the Ministry of Advertising's feeling that all products should be described in various degress of inexpensive for their price range:
inexpensive
almost inexpensive
barely inexpensive
not inexpensive
nowhere near inexpensive

Re:hm

[drix]

Pull your head out of your grammatical ass, it captures a subtle shade of meaning that "expensive" doesn't. The rules they taught you in 7th grade english are breakable, sometimes to great effect.

Re:hm

[more fool you]

you should be modded not-uninsightful

Everything comes up short...

[evilviper]

Why can't anyone make what consumers want?

Tivo would be great if it didn't require on-going charges (and doesn't allow anyone to screw around with the installed software).

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

So, when are we going to see some such system? Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?

Re:Everything comes up short...

[Babbster]

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

Part of the reason that PVRs like Tivo and ReplayTV still exist (though Replay has been sued, encouraging them to remove some features) is that they DON'T edit the originally broadcasted content. Providing easy-to-use editing features in a box like this - particularly in reference to commercials - will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

This is of even greater concern to content producers since more and more television shows are being released in pre-recorded DVD sets and being able to easily make commercial-free DVDs of TV shows at home would cut into that market.

Re:Everything comes up short...

[Pedersen]

You wanna burn to DVD? Here ya go:

• MythTV, also used to edit commercials out of the recording
• MythMkMovie, used to make DivX files

After that, burn to DVD to your heart's content. Oh, and MythMkMovie is getting ready for the 1.0 release finally (within the next two weeks it looks like).

Everyone has me to thank for this....

[jaylen]

... since if I had not just bought a Tivo last week, and a DVD recorder the month before, this would never have happened.

*sobs*

_____
Jaylen

Here is some other model like this one...

[SCiPS]

But more powerfull ... and older... The first is already known by a lot of people fujitsu-siemens Activy and work under XP embbed.
The second is less known and the site is not in english but it works really well. Dreambox and run under Linux !

Great idea.. if implemented right

[Eric(b0mb)Dennis]

This is a great idea, but it really depends on how well the implement the DVD burning from the harddrive.. This will need to have editing options to cut out commercials.. and that will bringe a whole wave of trouble onto the makers... replay TV fiasco, anyone? The real ticket would be fully editable shows, networking capability (at least 1394... that would be neat.. would encourage people to buy this instead of just a stand alone DVD recorder) Transfering all those babylon 5 SVCDs to this then burning them would be pretty sweet...

MPAA?

[FryGuy1013]

Didn't one of the PVR's remove a feature to share recordings between networked PVR's for fear of MPAA lawsuits? This isn't even restricted to the same kind of machines. Now you can record movies off of showtime/hbo automatically and burn them to dvd. I wonder what MPAA will do about this.

Now if they added commercial skipping and the ability to burn commercial skipped shows to dvd, that would be really pushing things. Hopefully my homebrew PVR box will have a DVD burner soon, and it will be able to do this.

Hmm

[pokka]

It sounds like a good idea, but most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive) -- much less than the price of this new TiVo.

Another reason I wouldn't buy one is that I know the HDTV-based models are due out sometime in the near future, so investing $1,200 in something that will be obsolete in 1-2 years seems like a bad idea.

Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

Macrovision?

[Henry Stern]

Both units are equipped to transfer old videotapes to longer-lasting DVD-R or DVD-RW discs for more permanent storage. By connecting a VCR via analog inputs to the DVD recorder, transferring content becomes a snap. Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity. Transferring home movies from tape to disc will preserve them for future generations. DVD-R discs are best for archiving because they are write-once discs (like CD-R) and cannot be accidentally erased. Once a consumer has transferred their videotape collection to DVD, the VCR is obsolete.

I wonder what they're doing about Macrovision with this feature. It would hardly be an improvement to copy a VHS casette to a DVD if there were messed up colours and wavy lines.

Re:Macrovision?

[Osty]

Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity.

But CDs and DVDs do degrade over time. Not in video quality, since that's all digital, but the storage medium itself has been known to rot (mostly CDs and laser discs, since DVDs really haven't been around long enough to see any noticeable deterioration). Sure, they last much longer than tape, and don't degrade with repeated viewings, but to say that they won't degrade at all is naive.

Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

Re:Macrovision?

[Surak]

Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

Somebody actually wants my money.

[Bartab]

Instead of pandering to the MPAA, and watching sales never really take off, Pioneer has decided to submit a potentially profitable piece of hardware to the market.

Now if it had 30sec forward, I'd actually buy it.

Re:Somebody actually wants my money.

[bastion_xx]

select - play - select - 3 - 0 - select

30 second forward now enabled.

TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead?

[Mr_Silver]

Since the original hardware manufacturers (Thompson) for TiVo in the UK have pulled out of the market and you can now only get them on eBay - is it actually worth purchasing TiVo if you live on our little island?

Alternativily I was thinking about purchasing a silent PC (such as the one at Tranquil PC) and installing MythTV on it, but I don't know how well it would work given that it's a hell of a lot more expensive than TiVo off eBay.

Also just looking at mini-itx.com I see something called OneBox. It looks to be running Windows but apparantly it allows you to run MAME on it too.

So, ignoring the waffle above - what i'm saying is

1. Is TiVo still a viable option in the UK despite the fact there is no hardware manfacturers? (ie. could they just pull out at any time)
2. Would a homebrew PVR be better? (it would have to be substantially given that it costs twice as much and requires work from me)
3. Would the tranquil PC or other box mentioned in the preview /. article be any good as a PVR? (processor power, graphics, IR, to name three things to think about)
4. Would something like a onebox be better?

I like Linux and I use it, but I'm loath to spend lots of money on a homebrew kit only to spend several hours tearing my hair out and not getting anywhere. If it's going to be that, I'd rather just pay more and have it work.

Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead?

[Qube]

Short answer: yes. A proper TiVo is worth getting.

I believe it is a viable service in the UK. They have around 35,000 subscribers, all either having paid the 200ukp lifetime or 10ukp a month. The guide data (listings, descriptions, etc) is prepared by Tribune and will cost them significantly less than the subscriber cost. Add on a little overhead for running 0800 numbers, their own servers and a few staff and you're still making a fortune. Customer service is handled by Sky, but could be outsourced anywhere if Sky dropped them. I just don't see why they'd cut off a source of revenue (albeit a small one) and effectively shut the door on their return to the UK.

Homebrew - they're "better" in the sense that you can do other things with them. Run MAME, get your email, play DVDs and MP3s and other nifty stuff. I'm still not impressed by the actual TV recording and playback. I like things that have one task and do it very well - TiVo is in that category. I have consoles to play games on, and if I want to check my email in front of the TV I'll just grab my laptop.

I was really quite skeptical about the monthly subscription, but thought I'd give it a go for a couple of months. It's hard to get across how convenient it is to just forget about TV schedules and just have a box that gets the programmes you like whenever they're on and has them ready for when you feel like watching. That is what really separates the proper PVRs from the homebrew ones, that require far more checking, faffing about and general irritation.

If mine blew up tomorrow and it cost me twice as much to replace it, I would. It's worth every penny.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box?

[Osty]

I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets.

That's an easy one. People are far more likely to buy a $400 set top box than a $2000 TV. As well, people are more likely to agree to pay a subscription fee for a cheaper piece of hardware. If you put this into their TV set and then tell them they have to pay extra to get full functionality, they'll look at you funny and then call you an idiot if you think they're going to buy a $2000 TV that requires them to keep on paying. Finally, a STB is portable. If I want to have the Tivo in my bedroom on the small TV, but move it to the big TV in the entertainment room when I want to watch certain recorded shows, I can. If it's built into my TV in the entertainment room, I can't watch it in the bedroom, and vice versa (yeah, you can solve that with a networking solution, but then that requires another box, or another TV set with more built-in functionality, for more money).

Could TiVO partner with a TV manufacturer to build the functionality into a model line? Sure. Should they? Probably. Will they? Probably not.

Today's word is "litotes"

[Daemonic]

Understatement by negating the contrary.

It's not uncommon.

Re:MPAA? I'll Bite ;)

[jstockdale]

Comment, Mod, ARRGGH its so hard! :P but I'll bite ...

The recording of broadcast material (read news/live/tv/movies) by the home/consumer market is explicitly permitted* by the Sony v. Universal ruling [464 US 417 (1984)]. Therefore the MPAA doesn't have a foot to stand on if they attack PVR's which carry features qualitatively equivalent to that available on the VHS platform.

The issue with PVR's which go a step further to redistribute content to other users on the network is that in redistributing the content in a non-physical form to persons with whom you have loose if any affiliations opens up the end user for copyright infringement proceedings. Burning a DVD and redistributing the content doesn't carry the same issues or implecations as such use is effectively legalized by the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 and Sony v. Universal as this is seen as private non-commercial redistribution (such as sharing an Audio Tape or CD among friends).

Again, regarding adding features such as commercial skipping and burning commercial skipped shows to dvd (as the parent post requested), I highly doubt the addition of these features due to the chance, and high incentive, of advertisers then challenging whether or not the device is covered by Sony v. Universal or the AHRA of 1992. No longer is the device merely time-shifting or media-shifting the content, it is altering the content which is not explicitly covered (As far as I know).

* Note: Ok technically an action is not permitted or legalized by a court ruling, but such wording prevented me from saying: as is established as precedent by the case ...

Toshiba has a better deal: only $599

[backdoorstudent]

Toshiba will also release a similar recorder for $599 as well as a player/tivo device for only $299. http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?n ewsid=107

And somewhere, a pin is placed upon a map

[Sloppy]

And yes, I know what's involved in a Mythtv box - for a dual tuner model, right now, it takes at least a 2000+ processor.

The above words were uttered, and everyone so implicitly understood the words, without qualifying remarks or context clarification, that the event went unnoticed. It was so normal, so mundane. Who would look at it and think twice? Why would they?

Deep at AMD headquarters, the intelligence report arrived.

"Here's the latest batch, sir."

"Hmm.. I see.. Hmm.. Oh! What's this?"

"It was a comment on Slashdot, sir. Someone used our notation for referring to the approximate speed of a microprocessor. But they didn't actually mention our name or the product's name. No unit of measurement or anything. Just a number with a postfix plus sign. And everyone knew what it meant. It was completely implicit."

The strategist smiled and pulled an Intel pin off a map, replacing it with the AMD pin. He leaned back in his chair and squinted at the map, nodding with satisfaction.