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Gender Inequality In Everquest

daimou writes "According to a study done at California State University, women avatars sell for 10% less than men. Also look how rich Everquest would be if it were a real country. The New Scientist is carrying the full report." Update: 06/26 14:15 GMT by S : This New Scientist article adds commentary/summary on the original paper the author, Edward Castronova, sent us info about a couple of days ago.

48 comments

  1. DUPE! by Hougaard · · Score: 0, Informative

    See http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/23/ 056204&mode=thread&tid=127&tid=186&tid=209

    1. Re:DUPE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How hard is it to check for such stuff? I mean, just search for keyword EverQuest on your own site, and see if any stories match. In this search, the original story would have been the top link. Sigh.

    2. Re:DUPE! by dextr0us · · Score: 1

      YAY!!! FIRST GAMES.slashdot DUPE!!!

      in response to:
      See http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/23/ 056204&mode=thread&tid=127&tid=186&tid=209

      --
      "Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne
    3. Re:DUPE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I've noticed that if simoniker posts a dupe or there's a problem with a link or whatever, he corrects the problem and will often comment in the story apologizing or making note of the error. On the other hand, the other "editors" never make notes of the numerous mistakes they make. That is why I would like to petition the crew at Slashdot to only allow simoniker to approve stories for the games section. I come to this section because I know it is being run by someone whose head is not entirely in his ass. Who is with me?

    4. Re:DUPE! by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      There haven't been many dupes on the main site lately either. Maybe Taco's wife is filling in for him.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  2. In other news by d99-sbr · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to a study done at California State University, Slashdot editors post the same story over 100% more times than other editors.

  3. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Overall, male avatars sold for an average of $346, while the generally lower skilled female ones went for $281. The discrepancy notably mirrors differences in wages earned by men and women in the real-world, says Castronova.

    Well, if they are generally lower skilled, doesn't that justify the lesser price?

    English is not my native language, maybe I misunderstood that?

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just more proof that Everquest is biased against women.

    2. Re:Huh? by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      I sure as hell wouldn't hire a man to do my interior decorating (unless he was gay). It cuts both ways.

      Oh jesus.... I'm gay and I pay a shitload for an interior decorator...

      Get over the fucking steriotypes.

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    3. Re:Huh? by Elm+Tree · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, but you care enough about how your place looks to hire an interior decorator. How many straight men can say the same?

    4. Re:Huh? by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      Most of the ones I know think they can do it themselves, but it always ends up looking like a "bachelor pad" =p

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    5. Re:Huh? by Eigenray · · Score: 1
      Well, if they are generally lower skilled, doesn't that justify the lesser price?
      Overall, that's about 19% less. But "holding all other characteristics equal, it turns out female avatars sell for about 10 per cent less than male avatars."
      So the average $281 female avator would sell for $312 if it were male with the same skills; the additional $34 is because females are "generally lower skilled."
    6. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you fag! You're disgusting.

    7. Re:Huh? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Most of the ones I know think they can do it themselves, but it always ends up looking like a "bachelor pad" =p

      Even the gay ones? :)

      Look, I meant no offense, I'm speaking about general situations, not each and every member of any particular group. There are always exceptions to a rule, especially when it comes to people. That doesn't mean you should throw the rule out.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  4. Oh my god... by sabNetwork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do these guys have brains larger than dogs? Obviously there is less of a demand for female avatars because there are more male users. Thus, there are fewer bids, and the avatar sells for less.

    "Although the vast majority of EverQuest players are male, around 20 per cent of players choose a female avatar to represent them online."

    Translation: There is a 60% lower demand for female avatars than male avatars. Hmm.....

    1. Re:Oh my god... by Captain_Stupendous · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL, With the lower demand taken into account, the female Avatars are actually selling for MORE than they should...

      --


      I am alone, yet I also surf the universal backwash of undifferentiated Being, which is LOVE.
    2. Re:Oh my god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about supply? There is less of a demand, but there is less of a supply too. The two should cancel out.

    3. Re:Oh my god... by Universal+Nerd · · Score: 4, Informative

      A note, right up front: I'm a guy.

      Well, I for one play as a female avatar.

      I started using girls after a Geeks in Space program with CmdrTaco, Hemos and CowboyNeal where Taco was bragging about how his character.

      He used to play a sorceress in Diablo II and some guys would walk up to him and give him stuff. I got to thinking, why not do the same.

      I've played as girls in all the online RPG's I've been in and the guys have been taking it easy on me but they really do like to hit on me - and I play along for the most part.

      On networked games in lanhouses I see guys walking around looking for the dumb b*tch that fragged their asses - all the while I'm sitting next to them.

      --
      Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
    4. Re:Oh my god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it that your comment makes me think you are attracted to men?

      You are heavily insulting someone you don't know and will never see in your life.

      Did you have homosexual phantasies? Don't you know how to think about them? You are hammering against your head and ask yourself what the fuck you just thought, imageining to kiss someone male who is dear to you?

      (And now mod this Off-Topic and the above Troll, thank you)

    5. Re:Oh my god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A note, right up front: I'm a guy.

      I thought this said "I'm gay". I read your entire comment and kept thinking, "Why did he think it made any difference if he was gay?"

      BTW, that AC has some serious problems. I always find it strange they let people like that wonder the streets unattended.

    6. Re:Oh my god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words : Supply and demand.

      Women characters have, generally, outnumbered male characters in all games; with the exception of strategy games.

    7. Re:Oh my god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He used to play a sorceress in Diablo II and some guys would walk up to him and give him stuff. I got to thinking, why not do the same.

      Back when I played Magic on a regular basis, I was at a game store, and kids were doing trades.. there was one guy who brought his GF, and as she was the only female there, she received a lot of attention, and was making a LOT of really good trades, even though she really didn't know the worth of the cards...

      When one guy *gave* her a Shivan Dragon, it prompted another to comment "Jesus, I wish I had tits!"

      I've played as girls in all the online RPG's I've been in and the guys have been taking it easy on me but they really do like to hit on me - and I play along for the most part.

      The thing is, this is normal male behaviour - competition for mates... males will typically "take it easy" on players they perceive to be female - it's part of the courtship ritual... (Even though they don't know what the female ont he other end looks like, or acts like - it's human nature to "fill in" missing pieces.. and since people want people they're attracted to, as long as they entertain the belief that the female is attainable, they'll fill in the pieces with positive attributes.)

    8. Re:Oh my god... by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 1

      there's also another factor at play: sense of possession. most men that would want a female character don't want some off-the-rack model, they want a specific type/look of character. there's only one way to get a character that looks like you want it to: roll it yourself.

      face it, if you're playing in third person and you're staring at an ass for all of your game time, you want an ass that was made for you to stare at, not someone else....not that I've done anything like that before....

  5. Dude.... it's a game... by Pooquey · · Score: 1

    It disturbs me when reports begin to come out regarding usage trends/statistics about games... and people take them seriously. Worse yet, they extrapolate theorems from the data and apply them to reality.

    IT'S A GAME! Ok so the male avatars are more expensive. One could easily apply the law of supply and demand to the statistical data. But, that would be taking this GAME waay to seriously.

    I'm sure someone is going to post about how insignificant the reported statistics are in the face of the statistics about how many people get far too involved in rpg's, and Everquest in particular, to the point of losing touch with reality, committing suicide, etc. Again, people who take the game waay to seriously.

    Please stop reporting such bunk as news, thereby ceasing to encourage people to push the game beyond what its intended purpose. It's a game. It's just there to entertain us.

    --
    The english language is in beta. It's evolving but has not yet reached a level of usability.
    1. Re:Dude.... it's a game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EverQuest is _not_ reality?

      There is no such thing as reality, if you didn't know that, "The Matrix" should have taught you so.

      (I don't need games to escape the "real" world - just a xterm)

  6. Computer Games Researcher? by MacBrave · · Score: 1, Funny

    The New Scientist article references the quotes of someone who is a 'Computer Games Researcher.' What kind of job is this? It's just a GAME!!!!

    1. Re:Computer Games Researcher? by DavidLeblond · · Score: 2, Funny
      What kind of job is this?


      I believe that would be "my dream job."
    2. Re:Computer Games Researcher? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, If you excuse me, I have to do some "research" now. Hahaahhaha :D

  7. gender inequality by digtl88 · · Score: 1

    In every field I have noticed gender inequality.

    1. Re:gender inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really?
      Damn I knew that guy with the emotional voice was pulling my leg while he said: "No really, I'm a woman.. I just have a penis because of this gender equality thing that everyone talks about"

    2. Re: Gender Inequality by Fs-Phantom · · Score: 1

      There are actually quite a few reasons for female avatars selling for slightly (or significantly, in some cases) less than males...but these don't apply in any way, shape, or form to the real world. Well, there is one way. Female avatars have a significantly lower market. And, however much I do /not/ wish to be sexist, it's a stereotype which bears some thought that women are far less likely to get so heavily into such games that they would cause physical or mental harm to themselves...or to spend more money than they would -need- to on such a game. (i.e. extra avatars or characters.)

      Additionally, allow me please to state the following -- The choice of an avatar for a player is in no way an indication of a sexual preference. You may as well say that anybody who plays an online roleplaying game is a 300-pound 35-year old greasy-haired nincompoop who does nothing but sit at a computer, afraid to look outside! (With apologies to anybody who fits said description.) I play a female avatar from time to time in roleplaying games, particularly MUCKs -- I am a heterosexual male, and I try and play these characters to the best of my ability -- realistically, or to a reasonable degree of realism. Guess what? That stereotype has just been punctured.

      On MMORPGs, a number of male players play female characters because, on MMORPGs, chivalry still holds true. Indeed, on the game "Ragnarok Online", the main reason for anybody playing a female character as a male was to gain items! (Indeed, players give items to females for free. Just for being cute. Surprised?)

      Back to the main topic of the article itself. It's a game. Characters differ, and price can't really be used as a benchmark...but it -can- be used as a means of measuring supply and demand. With the statistics they were using, I can't imagine anything else. It can -not- be used to consider any market fluctuations, or gender differences, or anything else in that manner in the real world...well, unless you're talking about measuring gender differences in the number of RPG-playing gamers.

  8. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, The Everquest Economy Per Capita Income, ummm, I can't really think of anything.

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Soviet Russia, The Everquest per Capita Income is taken from you!!!

  9. Do the math... by darkmayo · · Score: 0, Troll

    Hmmm lets see you have a Male player..
    who plays a Female Character..

    MP+FC= FAG

    at least that is the mentality of alot of players I have met in Everquest,Dark Age, Shadowbane.
    Of course there is alot of exceptions to this..

    --
    "I am a kernel in the linux army"
    1. Re:Do the math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better to look at female dark elf thong ass all day than dwarven male ass.

    2. Re:Do the math... by zillahX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I play female characters in EQ. People are more apt to pay adequately for things, they're generally nicer to you, easier to get into groups.. so what if I'm not really female? I'm also not really a giant lizard that walks on it's hind legs and does kung fu.

  10. Up-dupe-ted by Fammy2000 · · Score: 1

    Updated to make it a lesser dupe. There's commentary!

    --
    If I had something intelligent to say, I would have said it.
  11. Fat old men. by macdaddy357 · · Score: 1

    All the female charachters in Everquest, just like the female charachters in lesbian chatrooms, are actually fat old men pretending to be hot young girls. WTF?

    --
    How ya like dat?
  12. 77th by I_am_God_Here · · Score: 3, Funny

    "EverQuest would then be the 77th wealthiest in the world, just behind Russia."

    I am dissapointed in the EQ players, I hope they work harder next year and surpass russia.

    --

    Capitalism: unequal distribution of wealth
    Socialism: equal distribution of poverty
  13. Whoa... by wfolta · · Score: 1

    People are not who they represent themselves in EQ? If that's true, then maybe people on /. are representing themselves as humans because they get treated differently than off-worlders! That would explain a lot.

  14. some thoughts... by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    I've been thinging about this since this article was originally posted. the common sence explanation holds true, most EQ players are men, so male characters are more in demand.
    However, on further contemplation, there are a couple of other things going on here. Looking at the original article reveals that only about 20% of teh characters for sale are female, thus that should make up for the difference in demand. But if this makes up for the differnece in demand, we need to think of other reasons why female characters sell for less.
    Some possibilities might lie in looking at the whole process of buying and selling a character in teh first place. It seems to me that the process of leveling up a character just to sell it seems something a bored teenaged boy would be likely to do, rather than a)teenaged girls or b)older people of either gender.
    Then there is the question of who is buying these characters? beyond the resaonsable assumption that most of them are male, what kind of men are they? It seems that someone who would buy a premade character is looking for a sort of status item, a vanity character so to speak. Sounds like some mid-30's former buisness major to me.
    Anyway, it seems that this fact that female characters sell for less than male has more to it than it would first appear, and it would be neat to seem a bit more research done on the buyers and sellers themselves, rather than just what they buy (of course our possessions speak volumes about our identity, but that is another post...).

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    1. Re:some thoughts... by Fs-Phantom · · Score: 1

      The problem with what you're saying is that a lot of teenage guys wouldn't be able to afford Everquest characters, or have a lot of funds in the first place (there are usually more important things, i.e. a car, girlfriend, apartment perhaps, fund, etc.) I can see where you're going, but it looks like a dead-end road...although perhaps the type of 'middle-30s' person you're talking about is right on the mark in this case.

    2. Re:some thoughts... by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

      that's sort of what i was tryong to say. the teenager makes the character, the 30 year old yuppie buys it. I just wasn't articulate enough to spit it out that clearly!

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players