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ESRB Ratings Add Violence Descriptors

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to an ESRB press release saying they've added four new violence-specific content descriptors to their voluntary but near-universally used age/suitability ratings system for games. These descriptors are "Cartoon Violence, defined as 'violent actions involving cartoon-like characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted'... Fantasy Violence, defined as 'violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life.'... Intense Violence, defined as 'graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons, and depictions of human injury and death'... Sexual Violence, defined as 'depictions of rape or other violent sexual acts.'" There's also mention of icon redesign to include recommended age ranges and new, more prominent labels on the back of game boxes, presumably in response to legal challenges regarding violent games.

60 comments

  1. Who cares about violence descriptors? by lightspawn · · Score: 4, Funny

    We want sex descriptors!

    How are we supposed to figure out what games (or movies) to get?

    1. Re:Who cares about violence descriptors? by J+x · · Score: 1

      http://www.cndb.com

      You're Welcome. :)

  2. Sexual Violence by Gr33nNight · · Score: 1

    Does this include getting whipped by a leather-clad female at the local club The Inferno a few Saturdays ago?

    1. Re:Sexual Violence by PhoenixOne · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you were the guy at the San Diego Inferno last month I have news for you, "she" wasn't female. ;)

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    2. Re:Sexual Violence by Gr33nNight · · Score: 1

      Na, this is Madison, WI

      If you want to see how really messed up it can get here, check out www.madisondungeon.com

      scary!

  3. Rape? by GuyMannDude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe I'm a little out of touch with gaming these days but is there really so much rape in videogames these days that it deserves it's own category?

    GMD

    1. Re:Rape? by mhesseltine · · Score: 4, Informative
      Maybe I'm a little out of touch with gaming these days but is there really so much rape in videogames these days that it deserves it's own category?

      Well, maybe not yet, but with GTA III and Vice City (where you can pickup prostitutes, etc.) they may just be preparing for sequels involving more of these story lines.

      --
      Overrated / Underrated : Moderation :: Anonymous Coward : Posting
    2. Re:Rape? by svallarian · · Score: 1

      Phantasmagoria (roberta williams - sierra title) had a rape scene in it.

      Steven V.

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    3. Re:Rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC the old Sierra-game Phantasmagoria (sic?) contained a rape-scene.

    4. Re:Rape? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      It's something that's been done in the past, and is probably more common in Japanese titles. Either way, it's so disturbing to certain groups of people that it certainly gets a mention in movie and TV ratings, so it's no big surprise to see the ESRB adding it (and the game that's been mentioned here was quite controversial because of it).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    5. Re:Rape? by digtl88 · · Score: 1

      It is just sad that rape is involved in video games. Do they really have to include that to sell these games.

    6. Re:Rape? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      And it was rather disturbing; it was nothing graphic, but it was vicious, in it's own way, and it fit the story and the context perfectly.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    7. Re:Rape? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is just sad that rape is involved in video games.

      It's always a controversial issue when it comes up. It's in movies and TV shows on occasion and brings up significantly less controversy in either medium. It's often a significant event in a story which can drive a character (in a good way or bad way), yet people tend to have a much more emotional reaction to it than to things like murder and torture, and so it's less often used in any medium.

      Do they really have to include that to sell these games

      In my experience, it's not included in any top selling game. However, it's a perfectly valid subject that games could address in a positive or negative manner.

      At the same time, other cultures are much more likely to portray rape in their media, so perhaps Americans are simply more sensitive (not in the 'we want to help the victims' way, but rather in the 'dont show it to me I want to ignore it so I can convince myself it doesnt happen' way) to it. Did you think that tentacle-porn anime all involved consensual sex? Is it not rape just because the girl is depicted as having an orgasm from the attentions of the multi-tentacled demon?

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    8. Re:Rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I need some examples here...

      How could games show rape in a positive manner? That's messed up man.

      Your whole last paragraph also smells of hate. So its a negative thing that American's (as you portrayed the group in your example as having a single mind) have a distaste for rape and thats bad, but other groups that view rape for pleasure are good?

    9. Re:Rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think his point is that middle-America's distaste for rape is actually unhealthy repression and denial. i.e. most people in America don't want to believe that rape happens nearly as often as it does.

      Maybe his point was if they saw it dealt with more regularly in media they'd believe it more? I don't know.

    10. Re:Rape? by robson · · Score: 1
      Maybe I'm a little out of touch with gaming these days but is there really so much rape in videogames these days that it deserves it's own category?
      Well, maybe not yet, but with GTA III and Vice City (where you can pickup prostitutes, etc.) they may just be preparing for sequels involving more of these story lines.

      Are you serious?!?
      Are you unable to distinguish between scenarios in which you "pickup prostitutes, etc." and rape? (Or is this just well-disguised flamebait?)

      Either way, I suspect the folks at Rockstar North have enough sense not to cross that line.
    11. Re:Rape? by Hatta · · Score: 1
      Either way, I suspect the folks at Rockstar North have enough sense not to cross that line.

      Why not?
      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:Rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either way, I suspect the folks at Rockstar North have enough sense not to cross that line.

      Part of what makes the GTA series sell is that there doesn't seem to be a line Rockstar won't cross. The first company who makes a game that crosses a new line is first to market a game with some totally new aspects which makes the game more interesting.

    13. Re:Rape? by mhesseltine · · Score: 1

      Yes, I can distinguish between picking up a hooker and raping her. It's probably just a bad choice of terms that the rating board chose to use in describing the nature of the content. I highly doubt that a game will come out where a key element of gameplay is to rape a character.

      --
      Overrated / Underrated : Moderation :: Anonymous Coward : Posting
    14. Re:Rape? by robson · · Score: 1
      Part of what makes the GTA series sell is that there doesn't seem to be a line Rockstar won't cross. The first company who makes a game that crosses a new line is first to market a game with some totally new aspects which makes the game more interesting.
      I disagree entirely.

      Compare GTA3/VC with Postal 2. If GTA3's sales could be attributed to its pushing the boundaries of good taste, then Postal 2 should be an unprecedented blockbuster. But it's not.

      Although it's an arguable point, I'm convinced that GTA3's success stems from its quality as a game, not from being controversial. In fact, if you look at the differences between GTA3 and GTAVC, Rockstar North actually made it *harder* to behave immorally in Vice City, as the police are far more difficult to evade.

      Despite what authoritarians might tell you, GTA3/VC didn't reward you for killing innocent people. There are many missions where you must kill, but you're only forced to kill other criminals. (Why is it "okay" to kill criminals? I'm not sure; ask the majority of Americans who support the death penalty.) Sure, you can hire a prostitute. That's legal in many places in the world, including Nevada, U.S.A..

      Here's the line that I wouldn't expect Rockstar North to cross: I wouldn't expect them to cast you as a junkie, and to reward you for getting your next fix. I wouldn't expect them to reward, or even allow, rape. I wouldn't expect them to reward (or even fail to punish) the murder of innocents.

      I'll re-evaluate my positive assessment of Rockstar North if they prove me wrong on these points, but I don't expect them to do so.
    15. Re:Rape? by robson · · Score: 1
      Either way, I suspect the folks at Rockstar North have enough sense not to cross that line.
      Why not?

      See my reply to the AC.
    16. Re:Rape? by Burpmaster · · Score: 1
      Are you serious?!? Are you unable to distinguish between scenarios in which you "pickup prostitutes, etc." and rape? (Or is this just well-disguised flamebait?)

      He wouldn't be the only one who can't. According to CBN, Vice City is a game that simulates the rape and murder of prostitutes. (Seek to 15:20)

    17. Re:Rape? by robson · · Score: 1

      According to CBN, Vice City is a game that simulates the rape and murder of prostitutes. (Seek to 15:20)

      Hehe. Yup. Right-wing talk-radio host Michael Savage has repeatedly referred to GTA3 as "that game that rewards you for murdering policemen and judges". It's not just the "right", though -- Phil Donahue ran a FUD-filled report on his short-lived show. That's why I mentioned "authoritarian" in my original post. Issues like this are on a different political axis (authoritarian/libertarian) than we're used to hearing about.

    18. Re:Rape? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      I think the other poster put it fairly well. I don't think that rape can be portrayed in a positive light, and I don't mean to show hate towards other cultures.

      All I mean is simply that Americans tend towards ignoring social problems, or trying to litigate away any attempt to enlighten them about those problems, or even portray them in any way (good, bad, positive, negative, doesn't matter).

      Taking pleasure in viewing rape is not a cut & dried issue any more than whether or not rape should be portrayed in the first place. In America, it's taboo to portray it at all. Cannibal Corpse and Nirvana both had to come out in the past to defend themselves for writing songs about it, and the only cases in which I can even think of anyone in America getting away without a huge negative contraversy towards them would be victims of rape, and in many cases they are treated very poorly when they come forward (either through art or just through the legal system).

      My point is that in America people have a tendency to actively push rape away from any artist's available stories, and that it's done not for the benefit of victims of rape, but for the benefit of the people that believe they can ignore the problem, or the people that believe exposure to it will lead to people performing it. The unfortunate fact the latter group overlooks is that rapists don't generally watch or listen to anything that depicts rape, and that there are vast amounts of somewhat popular material depicting rape in other cultures where rape does not occur more often, and is not seen in any better light in terms of crimes committed than it is here.

      What, I can show a character (playable or not) kill someone while carjacking (punishable by death in California) in a game, but I can't show a character raping someone(punishable by as little as 3 years in prison, again in California; transmitting HIV in the process adds an aggravated assault charge)? What if the player character is a cop and has the ability to stop a rape in progress?

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  4. I'm curious by KDan · · Score: 5, Funny

    How explicit will the icons be? They have to be clear and self-explanatory, right? *g*

    Daniel

    --
    Carpe Diem
  5. Sex descriptors: Japanese version by Atario · · Score: 5, Funny

    Applicable to games, videos, and movies.

    Intersexuality -- women having and/or being induced to have penises, permanently or temporarily

    Fantasy Orgasms -- orgasms causing unusual physical effects, e.g. explosions, comas, alteration of the physical laws of the universe, etc. (also covers women having one or more orgasms upon their first time ever having sex)

    Universal Bisexuality -- takes place in a universe where everyone is bisexual (or omnisexual, in the case of universes with more than one sex)

    Psychosexual Geneva Syndrome -- women who are raped fall in love with their rapists and live happily ever after

    Disingenuous Captioning -- textual notes appear at random, "explaining" that the situation is not as it seems, e.g. "They aren't really sisters, they just call each other that"

    Extreme Demographic Imbalance -- more than 90% of the characters are of a specific gender, specific range of bra cup sizes, specific taste in sexual activity, etc.

    Comedicus Interruptus -- sexual scenes are interrupted by random slapstick or other broad comedy

    Dysfunctional Ending -- story ends on inexplicable downer note, or ending seems to take place but then continues, or innumerable storylines are left unresolved

    Self-Deprecation By Proxy -- one or more characters are chided or chide themselves for consuming too many games/videos/movies of this type

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  6. Is it really a bad thing? by Suicide · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't have kids, I research my games before I buy them, to see if they are any good. I really couldn't care how violent or non-violent they are, as long as its appropriate for the game. And I really wouldn't object to more descriptive labeling of the content. It wouldn't effect me.

    But a parent might not have done their research about all the games out there before heading to the store. Maybe some people are ok with violence of certain levels, but not others. Either way, what people want to buy is their choice, and more descriptive labels never hurt, and lets be honest, even the MPAA ratings aren't enough any more, thats why there a little section listing why a movie got the rating it did.

    1. Re:Is it really a bad thing? by amuro98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If St. Louis is any indication, parents don't do any research *now* - and that includes reading the existing ESRB label on the games they buy for their kids.

      Instead, they'd rather the government tell them what their kids can or cannot play.

      If parents don't bother keeping an eye on what their kids play now, what's the point?

    2. Re:Is it really a bad thing? by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 1

      New label layout for future game rating system...

      ENTERTAINMENT FACTS
      ---
      Serving Media - (DVD)
      Servings Per Container 1
      System PS2

      Initial Load Time (45 seconds)
      ---

      Total Fun 55%
      Replay Value 20%
      Number of Players 1-2

      CONTAINS .5% or less of the following: Plot, Originality.

      CONTAINS: Sex, Violence, Adult Language, Comic Mischeif, Total Disregard for Authority, Depictions of Criminal Acts, Beastiality, Explosions, Flashing Lights, Repetitive Music, Poor Voice Acting, Cheese FMV (May contain Sex, Violence, Adult Language)

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
  7. this is good by ArmorFiend · · Score: 3, Informative

    Breaking down the violence this way is a good thing, in fact it will probably end up making video games look less violent than movies. Since movies tend to build the characters up a bit before their brains get splattered against the wall. Well excepting "Attack of the clones", where the clone army (which we don't care about) fights the mechanic army (which we also don't care about).

    But I digress.

    A point, a point, I was going to make a point...

    Ah, what about publishers that want a violent-er rating to appeal to an older audience? E.g. the original Wipeout for PS1 had a "mature" rating for "violence". The only violence in the game was firing weapons from hovercraft to hovercraft, and even then the only consequence of a direct hit was slowing the enemy down. How violent is that? Not at all. They just didn't want their cyberpunk game to get labeled with the kiss-of-death "appropriate for all ages" moniker.

    1. Re:this is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I dont think the M rating in games or the R rating in movies works the same way as the "Explicit Content" thing does for records.
      E-T games tend to do better than M (GTA excepting) and most studios will tone things down to get a PG-13 when they can. Its not a kiss-of-death, its actually the marketplace (probably accidently) voting with its dollar to keep mature themes in context. The content rating does seems to effect rap and new metal records, though. They would sound silly without the violence and sexism.

    2. Re:this is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ah, what about publishers that want a violent-er rating to appeal to an older audience? E.g. the original Wipeout for PS1 had a "mature" rating for "violence". The only violence in the game was firing weapons from hovercraft to hovercraft, and even then the only consequence of a direct hit was slowing the enemy down. How violent is that? Not at all. They just didn't want their cyberpunk game to get labeled with the kiss-of-death "appropriate for all ages" moniker.
      MobyGames disagrees with you.

      But I do remember seeing a Wipeout clone for the PC that was released about the time Wipeout was a budget title. They tried to give it an edgier image by including an MTVish soundtrack, but they just ended up releasing the only game I know of that had a "all ages appropriate" rating on the box underneath an "explicit lyrics" warning label.

    3. Re:this is good by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      The content rating does seems to effect rap and new metal records, though. They would sound silly without the violence and sexism.

      I think that was his point. Some games would seem pretty silly if they were released with an E rating. Imagine an E-rated version of GTA, for example. The game might have done just as well, but then again, maybe not.

      As for the Explicit Lyrics/Content stickers on albums, there's really no push to keep from getting one. The only real push is to release a 'clean' version for Wal-Mart, since they're the biggest CD retailer in the US, and sometimes don't carry stickered CDs (I haven't figured out when they do or don't yet, I just don't buy any CDs from them).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  8. This is all pointless... by Alkaiser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...seeing as how the ESRB slapped the "Nudity" descriptor onto Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball when there was no nudity in it.

    Very skimpy clothing, yes, near nudity, yes, but no actual nudity...and the ESRB decription is VERY clear on this:

    ""Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity.

    Partial Nudity - Brief and mild depictions of nudity.
    "

    DOA: XVB doesn't fall into either of these categories...it does however fall under:

    ""Mature Sexual Themes - Provocative material, possibly including partial nudity."

    So why did the ESRB choose to blatantly lie about DOA: XVB? Nobody knows. So, I don't care how descriptive the SRB make their tags, becausee they don't use them properly. Might as well just slap, "For Kids of All Ages" on every game, since you're just going to lie about them anyway.

    --
    Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
    1. Re:This is all pointless... by simoniker · · Score: 1

      I'd heard that it was the pre-rendered intro on DoA:XBV that made the ESRB slap the more restrictive rating on the game - not sure if anyone knows that for sure, but there was allegedly a last-minute ratings change on the title.

      It's certainly true that one of the characters is naked for a fair few seconds as she dives from the cliff-top in the intro, not that you can see anything much. But the game itself, odd as it is, doesn't seem as seditious and evil as, well, blowing the heads off things. Anyhow, I bought the game to.. yes, research volleyball physics, that's right.

    2. Re:This is all pointless... by gearheadsmp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey, if they're dumb enough to rate Sid Mier's Alpha Centauri 'E', they're obviously not playing the games they rate. In SMAC, you could do things like using WMD's (Nerve Gas Pods & Planet Busters).

    3. Re:This is all pointless... by nefertari · · Score: 1

      I think the video for the "Dream Twister"-secret project was much worse. Or the one for the citizen's defense force.

    4. Re:This is all pointless... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Ah, but if you watch the opening video, you get to watch Christie go skinny dipping.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    5. Re:This is all pointless... by _xeno_ · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Hey, Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance got "Partial Nudity," and there is one section of the game where the main character (Raiden, not Snake) is running around naked. In Substance, they added a VR mode calling "Streaking Mode" where you run around naked and try to sneak past the guards.

      And he's nude - no clothing, not much other way to describe it. I'd think the cutscene and the gameplay section would count as "prolonged" - it's not like he's naked off-camera while changing or something. I suppose they figure that the way he attempts to hide his important parts counts as "mild" - although you can get in-game characters to comment on him. (Apparently the Russian guards think he's a little on the small side.)

      The game designers did go out of their way to ensure that a certain region in the front was never viewable by the camera, but his butt is hanging out there is plain view as you try and sneak past the guards. I still think playing a guy running around naked counts as prolonged nudity.

      But apparently "nudity" only applies to females, when you can see to much of their brests. A guy running around butt-naked is "partial nudity," because watching a guy run around naked must be a "mild depection of nudity," whatever that means.

      (I can't be the only one who thinks nudity = completely nude; partial nudity = strategic covering of important areas, can I?)

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    6. Re:This is all pointless... by PurpleFloyd · · Score: 1
      That game had some geniunely disturbing moments in it; there were things there that left you with a feeling of deep unease. Hell, the voiceover for the Punishment Sphere base upgrade sent shivers down my spine; it described how the torture was as much in watching and listening to your family and friends in pain as it was in being physically tortured yourself.

      The whole game had some interesting themes about how society would use technology in the future; the "living city" secret project swallowing up the dissenters made me think about how things like nanotech or pervasive computing would affect society.

      --

      That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
  9. The entertainment industry's most complete ratings by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Informative
    Video gaming's ESRB ratings are more complete and descriptive than any other industry's. And the gaming industry has voluntarily submitted to having a ratings board. It took motion pictures many years to get to the point of decent industry-regulated ratings, and even still, they're vague and non-descriptive.

    One reason Lieberman and torch-waving "me too" followers called off the dogs was because of how complete and detailed the ESRB ratings have become. To Liebermen's credit, he admits and praises this publically.

    I am not a parent yet, but in a few years, I will appreciate having a tool like that to judge content by. This is what content control needs to be like - non-intrusive and voluntary, but complete and descriptive. As most children can tell you, rules like "no R rated movies, period" become embarrassing when all of their friends get to watch certain R-rated movies on a case-by-case basis. A descriptive rating system makes it easier to make better judgement calls. It's not a be-all end-all, and some people will always think it's too harsh/lenient, but it's far better than nothing.

  10. Ratings are stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I grew up with violent video games. When I got my guts splattered on the wall in games like Quake, I realized that it isn't a good idea to act that way, because I died a lot.

  11. RSAC by mselmeci · · Score: 1

    Didn't the RSAC do this kind of thing back when it was used to rate games? It had various categories, like violence or sexual content, and included 'levels' for each category.

    As far as rating systems go, I liked RSAC, because it didn't tell you who the game would be appropriate for, it told you the facts and let you make your own decision. Whatever happened to it?

    1. Re:RSAC by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      The game industry decided to go with the ESRB system and is only slowly coming back to realizing that information is more importartant and we need more than just 'M - for mature audiences/17+' to make a truly informed decision about games. The RSAC was pretty much dismantled once everyone decided to use the ESRB, and it took the ESRB this long to realize that the RSAC system had at least something going for it.

      Still, without an age rating, it's very unlikely that Congress would've continued to leave the game industry alone for very long. Look at music, there's basically nothing useful in a parental advisory sticker.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  12. What the People want by wynterwynd · · Score: 5, Funny

    While they're introducing new ways of defining your perversity of choice, why not come up with USEFUL ratings labels for games? Such as:

    VR - Violent Rage - frustrating levels may provoke fits of rage and destruction that could endanger your controller.

    MMP - Media Marketing Project - 2 30 second clips from the movie or tv show and a bad clone of a game you played 5 years ago with new skins.

    BHC - Blinding Headache Complexity - You write assembly code to take a break from the game.

    NHAR - Non-Human Appendages Required - The key/button bindings in this game would baffle a Yoga guru in mastering them.

    FR3D - Failed Resurrection in 3D - This game is the product of a last-ditch effort of a company past it's prime to squeeze the final drops of blood out of it's only success. And it's in 3D!

    TF - Text Fetish - Break out the reading glasses and pray you can skip cutscenes. This game makes Tolstoy look like a brochure writer.

    TOD - Translator On Drugs - This greatest English port of game from foreign are all the best easy to reading. You have no chance survive. Make your time.

    Just a few suggestions :)

    Wynter
    -----------

    --
    "Not all who wander are lost" -- JRR Tolkien
    1. Re:What the People want by sharkey · · Score: 1
      VR - Violent Rage - frustrating levels may provoke fits of rage and destruction that could endanger your controller.

      In the words of my brother, "Nnnooooo!! I Dragon Punched you!! AAAAAAAIIIIIEEEEE!!!"
      *crash*

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  13. Human cloning?! by MarkusQ · · Score: 2, Funny

    an ESRB press release

    Wow! So human cloning is finally a reality?!

    -- MarkusQ (aka MQR)

    P.S. *sigh* They aren't giving out The Most Obscure Joke Of The Year Award anymore, are they?

    1. Re:Human cloning?! by Zillatron · · Score: 1
      an ESRB press release

      Wow! So human cloning is finally a reality?!

      Come on, do you really think scientists would start there when creating a gnu person from scratch?

  14. Re:The entertainment industry's most complete rati by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

    One reason Lieberman and torch-waving "me too" followers called off the dogs was because of how complete and detailed the ESRB ratings have become. To Liebermen's credit, he admits and praises this publically.

    No, the reason Lieberman stopped waving torches is because it looks rediculous when you're a candidate for VP or President. He's done a complete turn-around on a number of issues, but especially censorship. The ESRB ratings were there before Lieberman even realized there were violent video games out there, it was just another stop for him in his quest to have Marilyn Manson brought up on murder charges (because a 'fan' committed suicide) and to clean the American shores of all of this sex, violence, and satanism that's in today's entertainment.

    The only way to explain his current positions is campaigning, because nothing has actually changed in the entertainment industry from the time he started his crusades against it.

    --
    -PainKilleR-[CE]
  15. Re:The entertainment industry's most complete rati by AvantLegion · · Score: 1
    The ESRB ratings were there before Lieberman even realized there were violent video games out there

    Not true. Lieberman's big torch to wave - Night Trap - was released in 1992. The ESRB was not established until 1994. And late in 1994, Lieberman stated that the ESRB was "the most comprehensive system of any entertainment medium in this country."

    In case your math sucks, 1994 is WELL before Lieberman was anywhere in the VP picture.

    And yes, he has *continued* that stance since then.

    But don't let me confuse you with facts.

    And for the record, I'm a Republican that would probably vote for any Republican candidate before dreaming of voting for Lieberman.

  16. Re:Sex descriptors: Japanese version by Atario · · Score: 1
    (or omnisexual, in the case of universes with more than one sex)

    Arrrg. That should be "more than two sexes".

    (Don't proofread with your brain in neutral, kids.)

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  17. MOD PARENT UP! by intermodal · · Score: 1

    he's right on the money.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  18. Just a correction... by El+Camino+SS · · Score: 2, Informative

    Psychosexual Geneva Syndrome -- women who are raped fall in love with their rapists and live happily ever after.

    Actually, when a person such as Patty Hearst gets captured and works for their captors or holds a deep emotional bond, it is called Stockholm Syndrome.

    Not trying to be a jerk or a Nazi... but you were really close to being on the money on that one... I just read a lot on it once. Thought it was fascinating.

    1. Re:Just a correction... by Atario · · Score: 1

      Dammit. Again, note to self: remember to put your brain in gear before posting.

      Right you are. Oh well, one famous European city in a country that starts with "Sw" or another, what's the difference, right?

      (Everyone, please edit your mirror of my important proto-faq appropriately.)

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      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  19. Re:The entertainment industry's most complete rati by intermodal · · Score: 1

    I don't really think the MPAA cares...keeping up with the times isn't one of their priorities. for example, if the MPAA is going to rate their movies, should they not re-rate them as time goes on for subsequent releases? I don't really think most R-rated movies from the pre PG-13 days would be higher than PG-13 anymore, if that. And let's not forget the huge publicity gained by the words, "frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." which wouldn't even turn a head nowadays.

    So I think the real root of the problem is that the movie studios don't want to re-rate their old movies when they re-release them. After all, they went to the effort once already. We just need seperate ratings for violence, sexuality, language, and themes. For example, all of my younger sisters are allowed to watch Die Hard. They between 9 and 16. I recently watched the film with this in mind, and I realized the movie wasn't really that bad. Under my stated idea above, i'd rate it as this, using a standard 1 to 10 system:

    Violence: 7 for gunshot wounds and destruction of property
    Sexuality: 2 for an extremely un-smooth operator and a 0.2-second-long shot of a woman's blurry, in-motion breast that most people don't realize is there.
    Language: 6 for frequent undirected profanity (Yes, I do realize this film contains many profanities and the immortal line "Yippe ki yay, motherfucker!", but little of this language is being used unreasonably nor in bad taste, nor does it tend to be used abusively.)
    Themes: 7 for terrorism and family dysfunction

    ok, there you have it...an example of a good system. The big catch is that it's not designed for the box office discerning your age. it's designed for parents who Raise Their Own Damn Kids®. Without parental participation in this, a ratings system doesn't work anyhow the second it goes to video.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  20. Non-sexual nudity by Vegan+Pagan · · Score: 0

    Considering that more families than ever are going to nudist resorts, shouldn't there be a descriptor to account for this? It might even let a game keep an "E" or "T" rating, as opposed to sexual themes and rape which get an instant "M".

  21. Re:The entertainment industry's most complete rati by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

    http://www.senate.gov/~lieberman/press/02/12/2002C 19808.html

    Lieberman said a new round of congressional hearings should be held to focus attention to the problem -- particularly the retail industry's resistance to adopting an industry-wide policy for restricting the sale of M-rated games to children, as Lieberman and Sen. Herb Kohl (D-WI) have urged -- as well as to raise parental awareness of the growing body of research documenting the threat video violence poses to public health.

    In case you can't read quite as well as one would hope, Lieberman not only specifically mentions the ratings aren't enough, but this quote is both after the ratings were in place, and after his campaign for VP (noted by the date in the article's address). The difference between Lieberman 2002 and Lieberman of the 90's, of course, is that the tail end of the article is a call for parents to read the ratings, despite the rest of the article's call for Congressional hearings and retailers to stop selling to minors.

    While I can understand and to some extent support a call to retailers to card people buying M-rated games, it doesn't seem like a really valid shift in policy, especially next to a call for hearings to see if the ratings still reflect the content. Of course, the hearings have prompted the recent additions to the ratings, which I think are good ones (and actually bring back the better parts of the pre-ESRB ratings). Personally, though, I have a tendency to dislike it whenever the government tries to get involved in people's everyday lives. Too many people in the government have based their studies on what people tell them rather than personal experience. There's even one article out there describing Lieberman's answer to people questioning his cries against the industry by going out and buying a 'new Pentium IV 1.5GHz PC and a copy of Doom', in order to show that he's played recent games and knows what he's talking about. In my opinion, the series of articles, which included him actually getting a clue and realizing Doom was not the game everyone showed him pictures of, and buying some more recent games, showed two things:
    1) he's perfectly willing to rally against things he's never been exposed to himself
    2) he does have the intelligence to actually take a look once he's questioned on it

    I think #2 is why there's a slight possibility that he has had a legitimate change in direction. However, I don't trust his tendency towards #1 and would never give him a vote (fortunately I don't live in the area that currently votes for him every few years).

    In 1997 he attacked the game Postal (ok, so I don't give a damn about Postal anyway), or attacked Cannibal Corpse's lyrics (despite the fact that their music is meant to be gruesome and the lyrics are not supposed to be something people warm up to, it's supposed to make your stomach turn and anyone that decides to go out and perform the acts described in 'fucked with a knife' or 'force fed broken glass' are really twisted, nevermind that most of CC's material comes from newspaper stories in the first place). He asks for Marilyn Manson's record label to dump him (despite the fact that he refers to a record label that won't be found listed on a Manson album, because the albums are handled by a subsidiary of a subsidiary, the same with CC's music, which he states is Sony's responsibility even though Sony has nothing to do with CC other than distributing some of their label's music). As with other politicians that have railed against CC in the past, it's unlikely that he's actually heard their music, but was more likely given a lyric sheet to read at best (or the descriptions he repeated at worst). Even Bob Dole made statements against CC during his election campaign, and CC's management asked if he had ever heard the music, to which he replied that he had not. The difference between the 'Democrats' and 'Republicans' gets smaller and smaller every year.

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    -PainKilleR-[CE]