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NEC Unveils Methanol-Fueled Laptop
genericplacebo writes "Japanese computer giant NEC Corp. Monday revealed a prototype of a laptop computer that runs on a methanol fuel cell instead of a rechargeable battery, and said it will start selling it next year. NEC initially plans to introduce a computer with a fuel-cell system able to run for five consecutive hours on a single cartridge of methanol fuel, but also plans to make a PC within two years that can run continuously for as long as 40 hours."
I was already worried about the concepts of television, telephony, and high-fi merging entirely with that of the personal computer, now I have to worry about computers becoming strikingly similar to automobiles and weed-whackers?
Computers are already too unstable and crash-prone. I hate to think how it'll be when my laptop is busy drinking alcohol while I'm trying to work...
So . . . how much will it cost to recharge/replace the fuel cell?
`which fortune`
Some might think that fuel cell is the greatest thing since Lithium Ion batteries but its really another way of getting money out of the poor consumer. The current range of IBM R40 centrino notebooks can provide you with 4 hours of battery life.
Laptop makers are looking for the high profit margins that ink jet printer manufacturers enjoy. How much will these full cell cartrages cost? Around $5 a pop? Thats absurd, wouldn't you rather recharge the fucking thing!
There is no god
I assume that you would still be able to plug into the wall to use your laptop when you don't want to use the fuel cell. The best part about this is the 'instant recharge' effect. You don't have to wait hours for your batter to recharge. If the market takes off you will be able to buy Methanol fuel cells at starbucks.
Laptops seems like a great market entry point for fuel cells.
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
It must be that it will be easier to take extra flammable fuel on board an airplane than extra batteries!
Mmm...alcohol fueled computer. One for you, one for me.
Methanol (methyl alcohol) is produced from the distillation of wood and is a clear, colorless, volatile liquid with a weak odor that is somewhat sweeter than ethanol. Methanol is used in the industrial production of many synthetic organic compounds and is a constituent of many commercially available solvents. Products that are available in the home that contain methanol include: windshield wiper fluids and de-icers, antifreeze, glass cleaner, canned heat, paints, varnishes, paint thinners and removers. It can also be used in gasohol, which could present problems as people try to siphon the gas by mouth and accidentally ingest some. Methanol is a natural fermentation product and its concentration may be up to 300 mg/L in wine, and even higher in other spirits.
Methanol is well absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract mucosa as well as through the skin and lungs. Both inhalation and transdermal exposure can result in toxicity. The exact lethal dose for a human is not known. Doses as low as 25 cc of 40% methanol have been reported as causing toxicity. In other cases doses up to 500 cc have occurred with no side effects. Most sources consider the minimal lethal dose to be around 100 cc (1 g/kg). Poisoning with methanol may be accidental or intentional. There have been epidemics of methanol toxicity in cases where illicit whiskey has been sold to large populations or when the less expensive methanol was substituted for ethanol in drinks.
Once methanol is absorbed it is rapidly distributed in the body water with peak blood levels occurring in about 30 to 90 minutes after exposure. If ethanol is not present 2-5% of the methanol is excreted unchanged by the kidneys and a small amount is eliminated by the lungs. At low blood levels the half-life of methanol is 2-3 hours. Once the blood levels rise above 300 mg/dl, the enzymes that metabolize methanol become saturated and the elimination half-life increases to 27 hours. When this happens a greater amount of the methanol is eliminated unchanged by the lungs and the kidneys. During therapy with ethanol the half-life of methanol becomes 30-52 hours.
Methanol itself may cause inebriation but by itself in almost completely non-toxic. The methanol is metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase to formaldehyde and then to formic acid. Clinical findings correlate better with formic acid levels than with methanol levels. It is these two metabolites that cause toxicity with formic acid being more responsible. It is the formic acid that causes the profound metabolic acidosis that is typical of methanol poisoning. The overall mortality of methanol poisoning is approximately 20% and among survivors the rate of permanent visual impairment is 20-25%.
...I can see where these fuel cells will find their way onto the "Prohibited Items" list at airports all over the USA.
As it stands, even simple Bic lighters are prohibited and will be confiscated from all checked baggage... I can only imagine what they'd do with a methanol cartridge.
The point with this is that currently you cannot buy one. This is (one of?) the first methanol fuel cells laptops. Give it a year (frankly, year an a half given typical engineering development time estimates), then, and only then, will you have a choice.
Now, all that aside, I'd rather have the fuel cell system. Let's assume that they weigh the same, and run for a similar time on one charge, like you suggest. With a methanol fuel cell, a replacement charge will weight, what, 100g, cost around a dollar or two, and be field recharageable. This means that I can carry enough fuel to last a day of use without falling over. To do that same trick with batteries, you'd have to carry 5 spare batteries, each costing, what, 50-75 dollars [0], and weigh the thick end of a kilogram each. Not only that, but spare batteries have an interenal discharge rate, meaning that they cannot be stored indefinitly (It's about a month for NiCd, less for NiMh, dunno about Li technologies).
Granted, if you break a methanol cartridge, then it's not pleasant stuff. Mind you, nethers the contents of your typical battery.
The trade off is then you can carry much more fuel, but you'll need to find a specialist to get more, vs the limited fuel and easy refilling for battery technologies.
Once the runtime of a single cartridge of methanol gets up, to me that's a no brainer. YMMV
[0] Off top of head, no actual idea how accurate that is - it's based of raw cells.
Sweet, you spelled 'retarded' wrong. What a retart
Of course almost no one will call them 'Methanol fuel cells' because that sounds too nerdish and is too difficult to say.
:)
So when you go to Starbucks and order you're double espresso latte with extra whipped cream and sprinkles on top, you'll probably be asking for a 'meth pack' with that.
My journal has hot
Methanol (CH303) is the simplest alcohol, containing one carbon atom. It is a colorless, tasteless liquid with a very faint odor and is commonly known as "wood alcohol."
:) fuel:
Methanol is one of a number of fuels that could substitute for gasoline or diesel fuel in passenger cars, light trucks, and heavy-duty trucks and buses.
It's physical and chemical characteristics result in several inherent advantages as an automotive (or laptop)
Emissions from methanol engines/laptops are low in reactive hydrocarbons (which form smog) and in toxic compounds. Methanol-fueled trucks and buses emit almost no particulate matter (which cause smoke and odor, and can also be carcinogenic), and much less nitrogen oxides than their diesel-fueled counterparts.
It can be manufactured from a variety of carbon-based feedstocks such as natural gas, coal, and biomass (e.g., wood). Use of methanol would diversify the country's fuel supply and reduce its dependence on imported petroleum.
Methanol is much less flammable than gasoline and results in less severe fires when it does ignite.
It also is a high-octane fuel that offers excellent acceleration and vehicle power.
With economies of scale, methanol could be produced, distributed, and sold to consumers at prices competitive with gasoline.
Because of its outstanding performance and fire safety characteristics, methanol is the only fuel used in Indianapolis-type race cars. Following a series of methanol vehicle development and demonstration programs throughout the 1980's, a limited number of methanol passenger cars and buses are now commercially available. There are approximately 14,000 methanol passenger cars in use, mostly in Federal and private fleets, and about 400 methanol buses in daily operation, mostly in California.
Methanol is used in a number of consumer products, including paint strippers, duplicator fluid, model airplane fuel, and dry gas. Most windshield washer fluids are 50 percent methanol.
Bender.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Methanol is a very potent neurotoxin, is relatively volatile, and has a much lower energy storage density than ethanol. Ethanol is relatively non-toxic by comparison (unless you imbibe very heavily), is less volatile, contains much more energy per mass or volume unit, and can be made and distilled to an acceptable grade by just about anyone, anywhere.
Instead of developing this strictly for laptops, why not come up with a general-purpose methanol (or other) fuel-cell? One where you could have your choice of plug type, polarity, voltage, and AC or DC? Like one of those omni-usage wall-warts, but without the wall? If it were no bigger than, say, a six-pack, I bet it would be more than useful for travelers of any sort.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Seems to me that the proper approach would be to make a laptop that can run on either a battery or a fuel cell. If you're running near AC, run on battery and recharge occasionally. If you're on a 10hr flight or something and they havn't been thoughful enough to have accessory plugs on the plane for laptops and such, or if you're on safari in the middle of Africa, switch to the fuel cell.
The issue I'm worried about is that the laptop/fuel cell industry will to do what printer manufacturers did for the printer. In other words, make the fuel cell hardware cheap and affordable and price-fix the actual fuel refill components as high as possible to maximize profits. The old razor blade pricing scheme.
From what I understand of fuel cells, besides requiring the fuel itself which is rather cheap, it requires a rather expensive (and no-doubt proprietary) catalyst component (platinum?) which sort of throws the "refill at home" idea out.
Maybe you could get 5x methanol refills before replacing the catalyst or something, but I'm waiting to see what the pricing of the fuel technology will be before jumping onboard.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Guess what? Nobody ever talks about it, but Lithium Ion batteries have a VERY finite lifetime; a FEW(very few) hundred discharge-recharge cycles; every time you discharge the battery, and the more you discharge it- the more of the battery you permanently destroy.
Companies that make these Lithium Ion cells(no foolin', that square battery contains a whole bunch of cells that are almost exactly AA size) won't sell them to you, of course- why? Because if you overload them, they catch on fire pretty handily, so you have to be a "certified" "solution provider" lest you blow yourself up. Mind you, the battery companies could install thermal/current fuses in the batteries, but they don't want to, because it conveniently lets them control the market, and gives them an avenue of escape if a pack for some camcorder or digicam has serious problems- they can point the finger at that company.
So, even though Panasonic still makes the cell used by my Powerbook Lombard, and even though you cannot buy new Lombard/Pismo batteries(they're no longer made, period), I can't fix my lombard's battery.
Please help metamoderate.
Direct Methanol Fuel Cells (DMFC)
The direct methanol fuel cell is a variant of the PEM fuel cellwhich uses methanol directly without prior reforming. The methanol is converted to carbon dioxide and hydrogen at the anode. The hydrogen then goes on to react with oxygen as in a standard PEM fuel cell.
Anode Reaction: CH3OH+ H2OCO2 + 6H+ + 6e-
Cathode Reaction: 3/2O2 + 6H+ + 6e- 3H2O
Cell Reaction: CH3OH+ 3/2O2CO2 + 2H2O
These cells are expected to operate at around 120C, which is slightly higher than the standard PEM fuel cell, and give efficiencies of around 40 per cent. One drawback is that the low temperature conversion of methanol to hydrogen and carbon dioxide needs a larger quantity of platinum catalyst than in conventional PEM cells. This increased cost is, however, expected to be more than outweighed by the convenience of using liquid fuel and the ability to function without a reforming unit. The technology behind direct methanol fuel cells is still in the early stages of development but it has been successfully demonstrated powering mobile phones and laptop computers, potential target end uses in future years.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
(MSDS sheet for MeOH.)
Admittedly, I'd be happier if they got ethanol fuel cells working. It's much less toxic, and supplies are easier to find.
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
As far as I understood, the whole advantage of fuel cell based laptops was you could simply open a spout and pour more fuel into it, like a camp stove. If, instead, you must buy proprietary cartridges like printers, I don't see why people would opt for a fuel cell based computer rather than a conventional rechargeable battery. In fact, the proprietary scheme you described above would be rather more like a laptop which runs on non-rechargeable batteries! I can't imagine anyone buying such a thing.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
I'm surprised at how many slashdotters are suspicious about this technology.
Methanol is *extremely* cheap to make. We are talking about buying a gallon or two for less than a dollar. Yes, it is flammable but not like gasoline. There isn't a risk of explosion. Do you ever worry about your lighter exploding in your pocket? Yes, its poisonous but only if you drink it. Ever drink glass cleaner or windshield wiper fluid? Didn't think so. Its sort of like that. Its much worse to drink gasoline (we use it all the time in cars and how many people are poisoned by that?) and opening a laptop Lithium-ion or Nicad battery and eating the contents is far worse.
I'm surprised at how happy people are with laptop batter performance these days. You are lucky to get 4 hours, especially if the battery is old. YOu can get more, but the batteries get very heavy! Methanol, on the other hand, is quite light.
I bet you're fun at parties.
Ever been on a plane where they let you take a large quantity of some highly combustable hydrocarbon into the cabin with you? ;-)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.