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NEC Unveils Methanol-Fueled Laptop
genericplacebo writes "Japanese computer giant NEC Corp. Monday revealed a prototype of a laptop computer that runs on a methanol fuel cell instead of a rechargeable battery, and said it will start selling it next year. NEC initially plans to introduce a computer with a fuel-cell system able to run for five consecutive hours on a single cartridge of methanol fuel, but also plans to make a PC within two years that can run continuously for as long as 40 hours."
I was already worried about the concepts of television, telephony, and high-fi merging entirely with that of the personal computer, now I have to worry about computers becoming strikingly similar to automobiles and weed-whackers?
Doesn't say how chunky the battery will be. Or how heavy it will be. Battery life is a Good Thing, but if it's gotta be at the price of portability, what's the point for a laptop?
Computers are already too unstable and crash-prone. I hate to think how it'll be when my laptop is busy drinking alcohol while I'm trying to work...
this means jack squat to me right now. I have an iBook that lasts about 4-5 hours on a full charge and to power it all I have to use are those little holes in the walls you may have seen.
Fuel cells WILL be a big deal, but right now you're retarted to buy one: electricity just workd too well already
So . . . how much will it cost to recharge/replace the fuel cell?
`which fortune`
Dare you to put an AMD in it.
The coolest voice ever.
Some might think that fuel cell is the greatest thing since Lithium Ion batteries but its really another way of getting money out of the poor consumer. The current range of IBM R40 centrino notebooks can provide you with 4 hours of battery life.
Laptop makers are looking for the high profit margins that ink jet printer manufacturers enjoy. How much will these full cell cartrages cost? Around $5 a pop? Thats absurd, wouldn't you rather recharge the fucking thing!
There is no god
Consider if you really think the FAA will allow you to bring spare FUEL onto an airplane. I expect that the place where you really need longer battery life - an airplane - will be the one place where these are not allowed.
It must be that it will be easier to take extra flammable fuel on board an airplane than extra batteries!
Mmm...alcohol fueled computer. One for you, one for me.
It uses METHanol?
Leak or vent even a little of that onto/into the user and he could go blind.
Even WITHOUT surfing porn sites. B-(
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So I'll have to pull start this laptop to boot it up?
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
Ok heres whats going to bake your noodle about adopting fuel cells: Will fuel cells be proprietary in the same manner that printer cartridges are proprietary?
Will you only be allowed to buy your fuel cells from your laptop manufacturer for an overpriced ammount? And how long until they start emplacing mechanisms that ensure that your fuel cell can't be refilled outside of the factory? And worse yet, when will they start using the DMCA to enforce these policies?
Methanol (methyl alcohol) is produced from the distillation of wood and is a clear, colorless, volatile liquid with a weak odor that is somewhat sweeter than ethanol. Methanol is used in the industrial production of many synthetic organic compounds and is a constituent of many commercially available solvents. Products that are available in the home that contain methanol include: windshield wiper fluids and de-icers, antifreeze, glass cleaner, canned heat, paints, varnishes, paint thinners and removers. It can also be used in gasohol, which could present problems as people try to siphon the gas by mouth and accidentally ingest some. Methanol is a natural fermentation product and its concentration may be up to 300 mg/L in wine, and even higher in other spirits.
Methanol is well absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract mucosa as well as through the skin and lungs. Both inhalation and transdermal exposure can result in toxicity. The exact lethal dose for a human is not known. Doses as low as 25 cc of 40% methanol have been reported as causing toxicity. In other cases doses up to 500 cc have occurred with no side effects. Most sources consider the minimal lethal dose to be around 100 cc (1 g/kg). Poisoning with methanol may be accidental or intentional. There have been epidemics of methanol toxicity in cases where illicit whiskey has been sold to large populations or when the less expensive methanol was substituted for ethanol in drinks.
Once methanol is absorbed it is rapidly distributed in the body water with peak blood levels occurring in about 30 to 90 minutes after exposure. If ethanol is not present 2-5% of the methanol is excreted unchanged by the kidneys and a small amount is eliminated by the lungs. At low blood levels the half-life of methanol is 2-3 hours. Once the blood levels rise above 300 mg/dl, the enzymes that metabolize methanol become saturated and the elimination half-life increases to 27 hours. When this happens a greater amount of the methanol is eliminated unchanged by the lungs and the kidneys. During therapy with ethanol the half-life of methanol becomes 30-52 hours.
Methanol itself may cause inebriation but by itself in almost completely non-toxic. The methanol is metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase to formaldehyde and then to formic acid. Clinical findings correlate better with formic acid levels than with methanol levels. It is these two metabolites that cause toxicity with formic acid being more responsible. It is the formic acid that causes the profound metabolic acidosis that is typical of methanol poisoning. The overall mortality of methanol poisoning is approximately 20% and among survivors the rate of permanent visual impairment is 20-25%.
...I can see where these fuel cells will find their way onto the "Prohibited Items" list at airports all over the USA.
As it stands, even simple Bic lighters are prohibited and will be confiscated from all checked baggage... I can only imagine what they'd do with a methanol cartridge.
"Man dies from carbon monoxide intoxication after using laptop for five straight hours, more at 11"
So you're saying you're not only blind but dead also?
Welcome to Slashdot!
I'd have an endless supply of fuel! My laptop would never go down.
Methanol (CH303) is the simplest alcohol, containing one carbon atom. It is a colorless, tasteless liquid with a very faint odor and is commonly known as "wood alcohol."
:) fuel:
Methanol is one of a number of fuels that could substitute for gasoline or diesel fuel in passenger cars, light trucks, and heavy-duty trucks and buses.
It's physical and chemical characteristics result in several inherent advantages as an automotive (or laptop)
Emissions from methanol engines/laptops are low in reactive hydrocarbons (which form smog) and in toxic compounds. Methanol-fueled trucks and buses emit almost no particulate matter (which cause smoke and odor, and can also be carcinogenic), and much less nitrogen oxides than their diesel-fueled counterparts.
It can be manufactured from a variety of carbon-based feedstocks such as natural gas, coal, and biomass (e.g., wood). Use of methanol would diversify the country's fuel supply and reduce its dependence on imported petroleum.
Methanol is much less flammable than gasoline and results in less severe fires when it does ignite.
It also is a high-octane fuel that offers excellent acceleration and vehicle power.
With economies of scale, methanol could be produced, distributed, and sold to consumers at prices competitive with gasoline.
Because of its outstanding performance and fire safety characteristics, methanol is the only fuel used in Indianapolis-type race cars. Following a series of methanol vehicle development and demonstration programs throughout the 1980's, a limited number of methanol passenger cars and buses are now commercially available. There are approximately 14,000 methanol passenger cars in use, mostly in Federal and private fleets, and about 400 methanol buses in daily operation, mostly in California.
Methanol is used in a number of consumer products, including paint strippers, duplicator fluid, model airplane fuel, and dry gas. Most windshield washer fluids are 50 percent methanol.
Already 3 posters that prefer batteries over fuel cell powered laptops. Well, I can't say I disagree that batteries are better, but there are exceptions. There are places where charging a laptop is not possible.
:)
I'm always going to a little coffee shop where the only power outlet is all the way in the back, so I can't recharge my battery. Now I have a laptop that lasts for about 4 hours between charges, but I can't always show up there with a fully charged battery. Why do I keep going there? Somebody upstairs has an open wireless router. Can you spell free broadband access?
But that's not the only case. I do small tech jobs, that sometimes take more than the 4 hours my battery lasts. It's annoying to alway hunt for a spare outlet. On one of my last jobs the guy had such a jungle of power wires under his desk that I was literally afraid to plug in anywhere..
And I doubt that the only power source for the laptop would be the methanol fuell cell. You might be able to use a battery or mains instead. But if that isn't the case, running exclusively off methanol is not that expensive.
I see most people scoff at the idea of buying fuel cell cartridges for their laptop. Well, then this laptop isn't for you -- you have easy access to electricity. This is revolutionary because now you have a portable computer ANYWHERE, and you can recharge it with a little cartridge instead of lugging a huge generator with you.
Hello military and 3rd world applications. I can see a brand new market -- deploy some these bad boys, set up a wireless access point, and you have an instant internet community with no other power infrastructure.
This is another step in getting computing power to the third world and closing the digital divide.
Bender.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Methanol is a very potent neurotoxin, is relatively volatile, and has a much lower energy storage density than ethanol. Ethanol is relatively non-toxic by comparison (unless you imbibe very heavily), is less volatile, contains much more energy per mass or volume unit, and can be made and distilled to an acceptable grade by just about anyone, anywhere.
Instead of developing this strictly for laptops, why not come up with a general-purpose methanol (or other) fuel-cell? One where you could have your choice of plug type, polarity, voltage, and AC or DC? Like one of those omni-usage wall-warts, but without the wall? If it were no bigger than, say, a six-pack, I bet it would be more than useful for travelers of any sort.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
God damn them to hell for offering products to people. Bloody capitalist swine. We'll immolate them on a stack of their own fuel cells! Power to the people! Or not, in this case.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Guess what? Nobody ever talks about it, but Lithium Ion batteries have a VERY finite lifetime; a FEW(very few) hundred discharge-recharge cycles; every time you discharge the battery, and the more you discharge it- the more of the battery you permanently destroy.
Companies that make these Lithium Ion cells(no foolin', that square battery contains a whole bunch of cells that are almost exactly AA size) won't sell them to you, of course- why? Because if you overload them, they catch on fire pretty handily, so you have to be a "certified" "solution provider" lest you blow yourself up. Mind you, the battery companies could install thermal/current fuses in the batteries, but they don't want to, because it conveniently lets them control the market, and gives them an avenue of escape if a pack for some camcorder or digicam has serious problems- they can point the finger at that company.
So, even though Panasonic still makes the cell used by my Powerbook Lombard, and even though you cannot buy new Lombard/Pismo batteries(they're no longer made, period), I can't fix my lombard's battery.
Please help metamoderate.
How long do you think that the printer ink refillers start marketing knock off fuel cartridges and "self fueler" fuel purifiers which filter camp stove quality wood alcohol into laptop grade fuel?
Direct Methanol Fuel Cells (DMFC)
The direct methanol fuel cell is a variant of the PEM fuel cellwhich uses methanol directly without prior reforming. The methanol is converted to carbon dioxide and hydrogen at the anode. The hydrogen then goes on to react with oxygen as in a standard PEM fuel cell.
Anode Reaction: CH3OH+ H2OCO2 + 6H+ + 6e-
Cathode Reaction: 3/2O2 + 6H+ + 6e- 3H2O
Cell Reaction: CH3OH+ 3/2O2CO2 + 2H2O
These cells are expected to operate at around 120C, which is slightly higher than the standard PEM fuel cell, and give efficiencies of around 40 per cent. One drawback is that the low temperature conversion of methanol to hydrogen and carbon dioxide needs a larger quantity of platinum catalyst than in conventional PEM cells. This increased cost is, however, expected to be more than outweighed by the convenience of using liquid fuel and the ability to function without a reforming unit. The technology behind direct methanol fuel cells is still in the early stages of development but it has been successfully demonstrated powering mobile phones and laptop computers, potential target end uses in future years.
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Methanol will just blank out the screen...
Sure, but what about heat?
Reading some information on various fuel cells, it mentions various types, the coolest being the Direct Methanol Fuel Cells (DMFC) which runs at about 120-190 degrees F (about 50-100 deg C) which would require their own heat problems, which are already a big deal with laptops. Aside from all the "what about on airplanes" questions, I'm wondering about how well the laptop will run at those temperatures. They'll have to swap out some components comming standard on laptops nowdays (s-video/etc) in exchange for fans.
If you want longer battery life, you can get more batteries, so the only real advantage I see is they're safer for the environment in the long run.
I'm thinking I'll wait until they become more widestream and they have some of those issues worked out before I jump on that wagon.
"When will this FP stuff stop?" "After the great growing..." "The great growing?" "Yea, when people grow up."
Do fuel cells produce gases?
A fuel cell running on methanol produces water and carbon dioxide. The same stuff your body produces btw, but the human body produces other stuff as well (think farts).
But anything containing methanol might catch fire if the methanol leaks out, yes.
doesn't the site mention a 40-hour version for PCs in 2 years...?
I'm surprised at how many slashdotters are suspicious about this technology.
Methanol is *extremely* cheap to make. We are talking about buying a gallon or two for less than a dollar. Yes, it is flammable but not like gasoline. There isn't a risk of explosion. Do you ever worry about your lighter exploding in your pocket? Yes, its poisonous but only if you drink it. Ever drink glass cleaner or windshield wiper fluid? Didn't think so. Its sort of like that. Its much worse to drink gasoline (we use it all the time in cars and how many people are poisoned by that?) and opening a laptop Lithium-ion or Nicad battery and eating the contents is far worse.
I'm surprised at how happy people are with laptop batter performance these days. You are lucky to get 4 hours, especially if the battery is old. YOu can get more, but the batteries get very heavy! Methanol, on the other hand, is quite light.
Octane rating is how its called the fuel resistance to detonation.
The octane rating of a fuel is what most people are familiar with, but there seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding it. In simple terms the octane number you see at the pump is the average of two octane numbers; the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON) or (RON + MON) / 2. This final octane number is sometimes referred to as the Anti Knock Index or AKI. This pump octane number is a measure of the anti- knock characteristics of a given fuel.
MON and RON are determined by standardized ASTM laboratory tests. The details of the tests are not as important as what they mean in terms of performance. Low to medium-speed knock characteristics are determined by the Research (RON) method, while high-speed and partial throttle heavy load knock characteristics are determined by the Motor (MON) method. MON testing is conducted under more stringent conditions with the timing on the test engine advanced and run with a higher inlet air temperature, so the MON number tends to be lower but also more valid for high-performance applications. There are a number of more valid tests that have been developed to determine the anti-knock characteristics of fuels used in high performance engines, but the aren't in general use at this point so we are stuck with the old reliable pump octane number.
It would be cool if we could use ethanol instead of methanol in a pinch. Imagine flying long distances in coach class. You could buy bottles of booze and keep your laptop going indefinitely!
:-)
"Excuse me, what's the highest proof you sell on this flight?"
Well you can forget about boarding an airplane with a flammable liquid for starters.
As for the printer industry. If your stupid enough to go for the cheapest printer without researching the TCO, well you deserve what you get!
Competition will force at least some of the manufacturers to make their cartridges refillable. The rest will attract the "chumps" as the printer industry and mobile phone carriers still do.
Sure, it sounds cool to any of us nerd types. But is this really ever going to be useful outside of niche markets like the military?
Currently, you can get several hours of battery life off a system that you can recharge using outlets that are spaced roughly ten feet apart across the entire industrialized world.
For fuel cells, you need cartridges (after all, no mainstream user is going to go pouring methanol into their computers themselves). That means a serious distribution infrastructure, because without that little cartridge your system is dead (well, we'll assume it will always run off AC in a pinch). You need vending machines, a good proportion of electronics or grocery stores and Kwik-E-Marts, etc., all stocking a standardized set of cartridge sizes.
How many hours does your system need to run for this inconvenience level to be worth it? Consider your TV remote or some other non-rechargeable gizmo. Not 5 hours, and I'd say not 40 either. More like a month.
And how long before airlines say "Sure, it's only a few hundred degree heating element, a volatile liquid, and a system designed to work at sea level. C'mon in!"
It's challenging to look past the thrill of a new solution to the practical side. I'm sure there are solutions to the problems I listed, but it's all years off yet.
Excellent, now I can sit at the local mexican restaurant ALL DAY, and my laptop will keep up as long as the refriend beans and beer keep coming!
You are also doing more stuff with your new notebook which can mean more disk access, bigger LCD screens, etc. Bet you weren't watching dvd movies or divx off your 486 notebook. Also I don't think battery technology has improved much over the years, at least not at the rate that other components have improved. We're still at lithium-ion based, far as I know and i could be way off on this, which began seeing mass usage in the early 90s and I've still seen some nickel-hydride ones in new electronic gadgets.