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Beyond Software Architecture

jkauzlar writes "When thinking about a software product's architecture there are two viewpoints to consider: the marketecture (or the marketing architecture) and the tarchitecture (the technical architecture). Oftentimes an architecture is designed without consideration of the market toward which the product is directed and even a technically superior product can fail against competitors with an inferior product, but who understand the market a lot better." This book tries to remind programmers (and managers) about maintaining the right balance of these things; read on for the rest of jkauzlar's review. Beyond Software Architecture author Luke Hohmann pages 314 publisher Addison-Welsey rating 5 out of 5 reviewer Joe Kauzlarich ISBN 0201775948 summary A software architect's guide to designing software with the market and end-user in mind

Overview Beyond Software Architecture explains how to bridge the gap between the marketecture and tarchitecture- how to create a product that not only performs well, but which also appeals to the market. It is part of the Addison-Wesley Professional Series line of books (also containing notable titles like Design Patterns, Refactoring, and Patterns of Enterprise Architecture) but this latest installment in the series is (thankfully) paperback, so it comes at a paperback price ($39.99 USD).

I am a software developer with no marketing background who works in small development teams, usually in an open-source development atmosphere. I was excited to find this book because it told me what I need to consider for my projects to help them reach the intended user. There is a lot of helpful information in this book, and at times it almost seems to suggest more work than I can handle, but I think it will ultimately pay off to be able to use the knowledge gained.

Table of Contents Forwards by Martin Fowler and Guy Kawasaki
1. Software Architecture
2. Product Development Primer
3. The Difference between Marketecture and Tarchitecture
4. Business and License Model Symbiosis
5. Technology In-Licensing
6. Portability
7. Deployment Architecture
8. Integration and Extension
9. Brand and Brand Elements
10. Usability
11. Installation
12. Upgrade
13. Configuration
14. Logs
15. Release Management
16. Security
Appendix A. Release Checklist
Appendix B. A Pattern Language for Strategic Product Management

Organization by chapter: Chapters 1-3 set up the rest of the book, defining the scope of the book as well as concepts and key terms used throughout the book. They describe a product development cycle, the players involved, etc.

The remaining chapters each focus on a particular aspect of a software product and how it relates to both the customer and the product's architecture. Catalogs of alternatives are available for each topic along with caveats for each alternative.

For example, in Chapter 6, "Portability," the advantages and disadvantages of creating a portable application are discussed. If most of your customers are using Windows and your code is written in C++, then the cost of supporting Solaris as well may be the difference between a product's financial success and failure. The chapter reminds us that guaranteeing support for 6 operating systems and 4 database backends and 3 browsers means that we have to support and provide quality assurance for 6x4x3=72 combinations of products. Then it describes a process of eliminating or prioritizing combinations of platform support. The chapter goes on to describe ways in which a product's architecture can affect its portability and how best to write software to be portable.

Related to this is a discussion of how supporting particular platforms ties your release cycles into the release cycles of products you support-- another problem that can financially doom a project. Another point from Chapter 6 that I found interesting was what it means to support a platform-- the customer expects you to take advantage of the platform's features. Many cross-platform products are written to be identical on each platform they support, which means they probably ignore platform dependent libraries or features that can enhance performance or usability. This creates a potential place where competitors can gain an edge.

So you see each chapter goes into great length and detail to cover the nuances of its topic, and it is extensive enough that it can be overwhelming and even discouraging.

Who should read this book Anyone involved in software architecture or design, particularly project managers, whether in a very small group or a large corporate atmosphere. Open source developers are notoriously technically proficient, and often are not marketing-savvy. Oftentimes you have to be technically proficient to even install and use an open-source product. Ordinary developers who do not participate in architecture might benefit from reading this book in order to understand the decisions being made by the architects.

Why someone should read this book Many software industry professionals are not marketing experts and may even view the marketing department as their enemy. This book helps bridge that gap between marketing and project management, helping the two parties work together to create more effective, usable, or profitable software. Similarly, open-source developers usually architect and market their own software. Tactics described in this book could help OS developers create software that lasts longer, is more extensible, and more usable.

What this book is and is not. This is a general, and not technology-specific, guide to designing software and while doing so, keeping a marketing perspective in mind. It describes what things a software architect should remember when designing a product.

It is not a guide to marketing software. It does not recommend particular solutions for particular problems. It does not tell you what you should do, only what the consequences of your choices may be.

What I would like to see A similar book that concentrates on the open-source aspects of the topics included in this book and how and how not to use open source tools (like Freshmeat, Sourceforge, Bugzilla, CVS) for marketing and maintaining successful open-source projects.

Recommendation Buy this book if you have benefited from Design Patterns, Refactoring or Patterns of Enterprise Architecture. This book is a welcome addition to a line of books that has consistently contributed to the standard knowledge base of the software architecture discipline.

You can purchase Beyond Software Architecture from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

146 comments

  1. Marketing for Developers by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Developers shouldn't care about the market. If you have a quality process in place with requirements that are reviewed by many disciplines (services, product management, etc) then they will modify the product to fit the market.

    If you don't have that well.. how much quality will you have anyway whether you get this book or not? ;)

    --
    --------
    Free your mind.
    1. Re:Marketing for Developers by C0deJunkie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree. If developers (and analysts, project mgr's etc..) do nothing to care about the market (read: at least make the product easy to change/adapt) then the best thing that could happen is a lot of money spent to match user/market requirements.

    2. Re:Marketing for Developers by Trigun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You still have to find a balance. If you're modifying your product to fit every slight change in the market, then you're too far behind.

      Successful developers have the market modified to fit its products. Think Cisco.

    3. Re:Marketing for Developers by RandomWhiteMan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Marketing is acctually a big part of ensuring quality processes. All the disciplines ensuring quality need feedback from customers, whether it is the end customer or the company you are supplying. I'm in a position right now setting up a Quality System (granted not for software, but manufactured parts) and it relies heavily on customer feed back on all our processes, not just the quality of our product. I started assuming I wouldn't interact with marketing at all, and now it's become a large focus.

    4. Re:Marketing for Developers by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 1

      (and analysts, project mgr's etc..)

      Those are the people that should provide input into the project as the key source for market direction.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    5. Re:Marketing for Developers by Jack+William+Bell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullcrap!

      Developers should care very much about the market, for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that the people who's job it is to do that may not have enough knowledge breadth to also understand the technical aspects, and how they are affected by market-based descisions. If you want your voice to be heard in these discussions you have to make certain you are talking in a language they understand.

      Of course if you are content to let marketeers and product managers design your product and build your feature list, and then set your schedule without reference to the technical realities, you might think differently. You might also be working for Microsoft...

      --
      - -
      Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
    6. Re:Marketing for Developers by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, the planning phase of a project should identify the business case that the product will play in and the potential for revenue that the product will generate.

      If you dominate the market or have a monopoly, you can pretty much cram whatever you want down the throat of your customers.

      Back in the 80s, AT&T decided what phone features you got, they were the market so they could do whatever they want. Today Cisco has some leeway in that area, but there are still other vendors who have some nice innovations that Cisco will then adopt as well. Or Cisco will drive the market and other vendors will reproduce their features, or improve upon them. Such is the glory of competition.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    7. Re:Marketing for Developers by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The product manager should state the high level features that the market is demanding. It is then up to the development community, and more specifically a systems engineer or lead developer, to translate those marketing requirements into technical requirements. Customers want to do task A, so that means we need GUI X, and server component Y to let them do A.

      The person who actually sits down and writes the code for X and Y doesn't really need to know a lot about A, or be an expert in the market for A, as long as the requirements have been fully specified for X and Y.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    8. Re:Marketing for Developers by C0deJunkie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ok, in that way I can see your point, and I completely agree with it.
      My point is that the "key source" is just a part of a project goal. Depending on the market you are dealing with you will try to adapt something of your coding habits (eventually based on analysts directions).

    9. Re:Marketing for Developers by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depending on the organization size, the requirements for a product usually take a few levels:

      - Market requirements
      - General Technical Product Requirements
      - Feature Requirements

      I wouldn't expect a developer to get involve at all in the first, a little in the second, and key on the third to say if it is doable or not in the time frame for the project. And of course the product manager (who understands the market) is a required reviewer of all three.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    10. Re:Marketing for Developers by Shoeman · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I completely agree, not that it matters, but so would Mr.Humprey, DeMarco, Weinberg, and other legends in the software industry.

      If your developers are detacthed from the end result of the "want" or "need" their work is trying to satisfy then they are incapable of making good business decisions. They become "code monkeys".

      I prefer my staff of developers to think of themselves as entrepreneurial craftsmen. The combination of shrewed businessmen and artfull solutions providers.

    11. Re:Marketing for Developers by arth1 · · Score: 1
      Developers shouldn't care about the market.


      That depends on whether you;'re talking about a big corporation or a small one-man business. Obviously, if you have to do more than the programming part, you have to worry about more than the programming part too.

      That said, the best programmers shouldn't care about the market anyhow, because they create a market where none existed.

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    12. Re:Marketing for Developers by FreshFunk510 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes and no.

      If you have too many leaders in one room trying to design a software product you're bound to never get anythign done.

      I'd like to take an Ayn Rand position on it. I'd say that most developers do NOT need to know much about marketing except for the lead developers and architects who should be interacting WITH the marketing fellows to create a product that's both sound in architecture and marketing.

      All the other developers that work underneath this technical leads don't need to be any wiser. That's what leaders are for.

      --


      "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
    13. Re:Marketing for Developers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree! First off, because a programmer that understands what the market may want will tune his user interfaces and features to what the potential customer would like to see WITHOUT the time-consuming engineering-marketing-services reviews; in short, you end up with a closer fit to start with.

      Secondly, what passes for marketing departments in every US company I have worked for (and, admittedly, I haven't worked for them all) were nothing but salesmen. Their understanding of what the market wanted boiled down to their last request for a new feature from one particular customer. I suspect that this is pretty common, however, just looking at the typical software product developments that I see. In every case, there is a tendency for rampant featuritis and NOT genuine new developments that might help the customers.

    14. Re:Marketing for Developers by russellh · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Developers shouldn't care about the market. If you have a quality process in place with requirements that are reviewed by many disciplines (services, product management, etc) then they will modify the product to fit the market.

      That's a big if ! But you know, we're not talking about developers, we're talking about software architects. They're not usually interchangeable. Architects need to know a little bit of everything. In particular, seemingly minor points like supporting platform-specific features are often overlooked at the strategic level.

      --
      must... stay... awake...
    15. Re:Marketing for Developers by spybreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, generally that would be the job of the business analyst or requirements engineer. It's not good practice to 'state' requirements, generally they are obtained by following a well-defined requirements discovery process, such as RUP.

      The product manager's role to is manage the overall strategy and provide the overall interface between all stakeholders of the product.

      In my company only people who know about X and Y, but not A are usually individual test engineers, who genuinely don't have to. And even then it never hurts if they do.

    16. Re:Marketing for Developers by bladernr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is, the requirements are rarely fully specified. It today's time-to-market and features-are-better-than-quality driven world, development - both for products and corporate IT - is very often expected to take off and work with incomplete requirements.

      That is why developers that understand the target use-case and market are so valuable. They can fill in the gaps to make sure of product quality and fitness for purpose. No, its not the ideal situation, but it is reality.

      I've never seen product management FULLY specify integrated, consistent logging and a unified configuration & management interface, but good developers know it is required. Developers with business knowledge of the target application can really help flesh out requirements and provide some sanity.

      It is obviously possible to hire just "pure developers" without domain knowledge, but, in my personal experience, the results are better with developers with specialized business knowledge (but they are harder to come by, and more expensive, so some companies settle for less).

      Developers with business knowledge also make the development process cheaper and faster overall, because fully-specified requirements simply aren't needed. This reduces cost (all of those hours of writing requirements and training developers) and time to market.

      As soon as customers start putting more emphasis on quality than time & money, then these realities will change. But, until that happens (if ever, I don't think it will), those developers who are focused on the market will continue to be the most valuable contributors.

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    17. Re:Marketing for Developers by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>Successful developers have the market modified to fit its products. Think Cisco.

      Strangely enough this also applies to Microsoft.

      --
      Huh?
    18. Re:Marketing for Developers by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I disagree the best programmers recognise markets that no one else saw before or were lucky enough to stumble into them. Markets are created by unfullfilled need.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    19. Re:Marketing for Developers by Aceticon · · Score: 1

      Hear hear ...

      It's not make things happen - it's make the right things happen.

      If the product of you work is useless or of little use to the end-users it all ends up being some sort self-masturbatory task.

      Half the fun in doing software is when the result of your work is actually used by someone and solves their problems (or improves their business processes, or entertain them or whatever).

      For those that don't quite share my type of "fun in doing software" concept just remember one thing - a company that provides little or none added value for it's customers doesn't last long.

    20. Re:Marketing for Developers by stephanruby · · Score: 1
      You might also be working for Microsoft...

      That was a low blow. I've never been more insulted in my entire life.

  2. If you've ever used the words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..."marketecture" or "tarchitecture" in written or verbal form, please kill yourself now.

    I'm off to the suicide booth to pay for my sins.

    1. Re:If you've ever used the words... by swordboy · · Score: 1

      The reviewer must be a "foron" (fucking moron).

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    2. Re:If you've ever used the words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick, give this man Bullfighter before it's too late!

  3. Nice verbing by worst_name_ever · · Score: 1
    Since when is "architecting" a word?

    --

    In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
    1. Re:Nice verbing by Rudeboy777 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since buzzword-speak became the lingua franca of the tech world (so we're talking at least 5 years now).

      Now if you'll excuse me, my toilet is leaking so I have to do some plumbering and a light bulb burned out and it needs electricianing.

      --

      From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc

    2. Re:Nice verbing by Metropolitan · · Score: 1

      Seems to be an artifact of a culture that views a concrete language rather dimly, I'm afraid. After all, some deep understanding it might *gasp* result in intellectual thought, and endanger the 30-second attention-span most contemporary marketing is struggling hard to reduce to 15 seconds.

      Every noun isn't a verb. If you're an architect, you design things. A plumber is one who plumbs, since the word 'plumber' indicates profession. Architecture, however, is the study and practice of structural design.

      No, English isn't consistent, but there are definite structures of acceptable language (which, admittedly, shift over time). This is likely to become a term we'll see more commonly used as time passes. Remember 'normalcy'? That took hold fairly quickly.

      Was in a meeting the other week, and our Fearless Leader told us we had to "systematize everything we do". 'Nuff said.

    3. Re:Nice verbing by sharkey · · Score: 1
      a light bulb burned out and it needs electricianing.

      Hate to be nit-picky, but shouldn't that be "screwering"?

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    4. Re:Nice verbing by Ryano · · Score: 1

      "Since when is "architecting" a word?"

      Ever since we were tasked with leveraging mission-critical neologisms and jargoning, in order to grow units and upsize language weirding across all territories.

    5. Re:Nice verbing by nytes · · Score: 1

      Maybe since this bozo started using it to title presentations?

      It gets over 74000 hits on google.

      Don't ya' just love the flexibility of English?

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    6. Re:Nice verbing by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 1

      To paraphrase Alexei Sayle:

      "Anyone who uses the word 'architecting' who isn't even remotely connected with designing buildings is a twat".

      (Original was 'workshop'...'light engineering').

      graspee

  4. since we're making up words... by yorkrj · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't forget to consider the implementation of the buggytechture of your applications. It is important to give your users a reason to buy the next version.

    1. Re:since we're making up words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im sorry, I think the correct term would be "bugitechture". -- Go sit in front of a mirror and work on your fuckitechture.

  5. Architecting? by nekoniku · · Score: 3, Funny

    Gee, verbed nouns sure are popularing! Sometimes I think it's almost as bad a habit as l33t sp33k...

    --
    "It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski
  6. Really, now. by inertia187 · · Score: 4, Funny

    marketecture...tarchitecture

    They forgot bamboozlecture (or the bamboozle architecture). It's how authors bamboozle you into buying books about made up words.

    Then there's karmarchitecture (or the karma architecture). It's the method by which karma whores read as little of the article as possible and come up with a comment that seems to have something to do with the post but really is just a cheap shot at gathering as much karma as possible.

    --
    A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    1. Re:Really, now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But hey, it works.

    2. Re:Really, now. by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 3, Funny

      I got my BS is karmatechture... you ignorant clod :)

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    3. Re:Really, now. by TwistedGreen · · Score: 2, Funny
      But... it's innovative! Don't you just love how it rolls off of the tongue?
      marketecture

      tarchitecture
      Yum!

      ...*gag*
    4. Re:Really, now. by bsiggers · · Score: 1

      What about 'Architecting' in the title line - that's not even a word! The virus must be spreading.

    5. Re:Really, now. by rifftide · · Score: 1
      Not to mention sharchitecture, which covers API lock-in and the possibility of sueing your customers over IP infringement.

      If I buy this book, I better be getting a Dilbert cartoon on every page.

  7. pile on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has the makings of a wonderful thread. One of my favorite consulting words is incent, as in "The client hasn't been properly incented to give us a bunch more money." Let's hear your favorites!

    1. Re:pile on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the UK, BT were running an advert for their business services where these three marketing types were using all sorts of silly buzz-words in a presentation to their boss. In the end they decided they needed "imagineering", but they also suggested they needed to "revector" and "to scope out a more integrated, holistic, synergistic offering".

      For me, as soon as a marketing person says "holistic" I have to leave the room.

    2. Re:pile on... by hndrcks · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Hrm, I expect they meant 'incentivized' - but if I was the customer I'd just be incensed.

      --
      Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
  8. Dunno about you but.. by realdpk · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    The last paperback book I bought was $7, new.

  9. "architecting" != English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Just checked http://www.m-w.com and confirmed that Architecting is not, in fact, a real word. For that matter neither is "chunking". Unfortunately, neither is "hork" or "hoark" (as in "That rat-bastard just horked my last twinkie!"). Fortunately, "hosed" is acceptable.

    1. Re:"architecting" != English by revery · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just checked http://www.m-w.com and confirmed that Architecting is not, in fact, a real word. For that matter neither is "chunking". Unfortunately, neither is "hork" or "hoark" (as in "That rat-bastard just horked my last twinkie!"). Fortunately, "hosed" is acceptable.

      Unfortunately according to http://www.m-w.com "twinkie" is also not a word. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that rat-bastard isn't either.

    2. Re:"architecting" != English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Ahh... but "Twinkie" is, in fact, a proper noun, so one wouldn't expect a definition for Twinkie any more than one would for, say, Timex. Rat-bastard, however, is a word formed by joining two indivdual words with a hyphen, much the same way that email used to be e-mail. Much like the semicolon, it is yet another redheaded step child of the English language; it's always around but no one quite understands its origin. Given enough time, I'm sure that NPR will issue a linguistics editorial on the use of the hyphen between rat and bastard, but we'll just have to wait for current affairs to simmer down.

    3. Re:"architecting" != English by HowlinMad · · Score: 1

      Twinkie is a word, because it is a proper name. A dictionary does not contail all of the names, but names most certainly are words.

    4. Re:"architecting" != English by nadam · · Score: 1

      Just checked http://www.m-w.com and confirmed that Architecting is not, in fact, a real word.

      Ok, so where do new words come from? m-w putting the word in their dictionary and then people start using it?

      People see the need for a new word (in this case a verb describing the process of building software architecture) and they start using it. There's nothing wrong with that. Then other people start using it too and eventually it ends up in m-w. Or people stop using it and it doesn't end up in m-w.

    5. Re:"architecting" != English by jCaT · · Score: 1

      If you had access to the full oxford english dictionary, you would find that architecting is, in fact, in there. I thought it wasn't and lost 5 bucks on it. ;)

    6. Re:"architecting" != English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Except that in this case there already exist several words to adequately describe the same thing. Jargon is usually coined by sloppy thinkers or people desperate to make a mundane concept seem trendy and appealing.

  10. How this concept REALLY works by beavis88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) Sales/marketing talk to some clients, find out what they want.

    2) Sales/marketing sign up clients for the beta.

    3) Sales/marketing finally gets around to communicating to the dev team what they have promised the clients.

    4) Sales/marketing blames the developers when they can't deliver what the client was promised.

    This is actually not a joke. On one of that last projects I worked on, I was handed the "specification", which was basically a collection of photoshop mockups, and told that clients were going to be beta testing in 30 days....wheee!

    1. Re:How this concept REALLY works by fputs(shit,+slashdot · · Score: 1

      But this is software development, you're not supposed to deliver what client wants otherwise they have no reason to upgrade.

      --
      I am the bastard of base minus 12! Turing was the ejaculate of my complete machine!
    2. Re:How this concept REALLY works by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) Sales/marketing talk to some clients, convince them we can give them what they want

      2) Developer talks to clients, determines what they need

      3) Developer talks to Sales/marketing, tells them what the client needs

      4) Sales/marketing talks to clients, sells them on what they need

      5) Developer builds what client needs

      6) Everybody Profits!

      If you are caught in the parent posts situation, insert:

      3.5) Developers firmly tell sales/marketing no and why not, cc owner

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    3. Re:How this concept REALLY works by beavis88 · · Score: 1

      3.5) Developers firmly tell sales/marketing no and why not, cc owner

      Alas, when the COO wants it, and the beta clients are his buddies, no amount of firm disagreement from the developers makes a difference...

    4. Re:How this concept REALLY works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) Developer talks to clients, determines what they need

      This is actually a very bad idea. Most developers roll over for new features 10x quicker than your average salesman and 90% of the time it never ends up in a product plan of any sort.

      Customer: How about Feature X?
      Developer: Yeah .. That sounds interesting. I think we could do it.

      (3 months later)

      Customer: Where's the Feature X the Developer promised?
      Sales: Huh? That guy doesn't work here anymore. What's Feature X?
      Customer: Cancel the order.

    5. Re:How this concept REALLY works by kurokaze · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more.

      In fact, the IT department I work in spent
      considerable time implementing new features into
      our LAUNCHED product that sales "sold" to new
      customers!!

      grrrr....

    6. Re:How this concept REALLY works by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, no amount of agreement makes a difference either.

      In my experience, once they've been made too look the fool by your being proven right once or twice, they'll be more receptive to listening to your expert advice.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    7. Re:How this concept REALLY works by FreshFunk510 · · Score: 1

      I wish this were reality because it is the way it should be.

      From what I've seen, the economic climate is one where programmers have much less a voice in these matters and if they aren't willing to kill themselves to make these deadlines then they might need to be looking for a new job.

      It's also often the case that it's "your word against theirs" and no COO/CEO/big kahuna likes to throw away business. That's the business world. Just get what you can get done..even hack it, as long as we can give something to the client in 30 days. It's sad but often true.

      I'm surprised some of these business even exist today (including the one I currently work at where this is the basic mantra).

      --


      "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
    8. Re:How this concept REALLY works by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most developers roll over for new features 10x quicker than your average salesman

      I think you mean bad developers roll over.

      Salespeople are all about saying yes. They are motivated by their contracts to say anything so they can get a signature and a commission. Once the job is signed, it's not their problem anymore.

      Developers, assuming they are interested in completing the project successfully and not dragging it out to keep the paychecks coming, will be motivated to make their requirements clear and realistic.

      At any rate, the developer shouldn't actually present the pitch to the client. They should develop the requirements document, and leave the selling of it to the pros.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    9. Re:How this concept REALLY works by der_joachim · · Score: 1

      3.5) Developers firmly tell sales/marketing no and why not, cc owner

      Why not make it 4)? I am serious. Sometimes, the client does not even know what (s)he wants and/or (s)he wants something which is either impractical or utter nonsense. It is the job of the consultant to correct these problems.

      Okay I know, consultant != coding, but I (coder) know something about user-interface design, which is a definite advantage.

      der Joachim.

      --
      Geek runner, motorcyclist and professional know-it-all
    10. Re:How this concept REALLY works by Arandir · · Score: 2, Funny

      You've got it way too complicated. Here's how it works.

      1) Microsoft saleman visits the medical company.

      2) CEO tells engineers to use Windows XP for our hard realtime embedded system controlling an intracardiac catheter.

      This is actually not a joke. I'm as serious as a cardiac infarction.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    11. Re:How this concept REALLY works by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Your problem is that to many idiots actualy believe that marketing and sales actualy have something to do with each other.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    12. Re:How this concept REALLY works by budgenator · · Score: 1

      my experience has been tell them it's immpossible and its your fault when your right.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  11. Developers MUST know the market by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The top down hand requirements to developers process is conceptually the same as the top down hand work orders to factory people process that GM used to produce many of its illconceived cars in the 1970s and 1980s.

    Developers MUST know the marketplace because capturing all of the market knowledge into a requirements slows down business mobility too much to make it a worthwhile process.

    Besides, if developers know the market they are in, then, they have an automatic value add over requirements only shops that work overseas!

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Developers MUST know the market by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it comes down to the R&D organization size. I know many large enterprise companies do something like this:

      - Market Requirements document authored by the business team, outlines what exactly the market demands to satisfy the customers

      - Technical Product Requirements authored by a systems engineer or lead developer who knows all aspects of the entire product, and specifies the feature areas and general product information to satisfy the market requirements

      - Software or Feature requirements/architecture: usually authored by a systems engineer or architect (not necessarily the guy who writes code) on how those general feature areas work (GUI functionality, discrete features, etc). In theory you should be able to take these specific requirements and hand them to ANY developer with proper coding skills and they should turn it into exactly what is needed.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    2. Re:Developers MUST know the market by tjstork · · Score: 1

      > In theory you should be able to take these >specific requirements and hand them to ANY >developer with proper coding skills and they >should turn it into exactly what is needed.

      This practice sucks, because, it implies that the document takes way too long to create. If you have developers that actually understand the business and the tasks they are trying to assist or automate, then, requirements become business common sense, and, as a result, you wind up with a much better product with much less paper work.

      User interface is more than specification of combo boxes versus check boxes.

      --
      This is my sig.
  12. Follow-up to book by truth_revealed · · Score: 3, Insightful
  13. Architect is not a verb! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (enough said)

  14. Then there's the wrecking ball of tarchitecture by beacher · · Score: 1

    Making things deliberatly incompatible with existing technologies, applications, and infrastructure in order to force the user to change..
    I'd often made the remark that I was going to bring my department into the 21st century, kicking and screaming - little did I know that I would be kicking and screaming when Microsoft's !tarchitecture made my job more difficult and sometimes pure hell.
    Maybe change is good, but I have seen very few good changes in the past 2 years - at least nothing worth ripping every computer out and upgrading....

    Keep up the good work and stay the course. When the management realizes that many open source projects build and keep a solid foundation, they'll be more likely to choose against the wrecking ball.

    -B

  15. Got as far as the book title by deepchasm · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Hmmmmm...

    Architecting Software for the Marketplace

    Ok, architects design.

    "architect" is a noun not a verb.

    There is no such word as "architecting".

    The title does, however, remind me of some of the stuff you see on this page. It also reminds me of a person I did work experience with during school. Incidentally, I never want to work with said person again, because he was full of crap.

    1. Re:Got as far as the book title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just so we're clear...

      Architecting Software for the Marketplace is the name of this SlashDot book review. The book's title is Beyond Sofware Architecture .

  16. for example... by Petronius · · Score: 2, Funny


    fartchitecture : (noun) an architecture that stinks. Example: [insert most hated OS here...]

    --
    there's no place like ~
  17. What *I'D* like to see by Ridgelift · · Score: 2, Funny

    What I'd like to see is a translation of this book without all the marketspeak. Maybe sales and marketing people need lots of buzzwords to make themselves feel smart, but us technical folk find all that extra verbage a waste of time.

    IMHO :-)

  18. Architecting is a word? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is architecting a word? Oh yeah people want fancy titles like "architect" nowadays .. what happened to designers?

  19. Marketecture... by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've heard this neologism before, in much the same sense as "benchmarketing", i.e., a sardonic sense wherein it's implied that marketers without any technical knowledge are the ones designing the product.

    But if my boss ever uses the words "marketecture" or "tarchitecture" straight-facedly, I'm quitting.

    --
    N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
  20. Re:Tarchitecture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making up words is the sure sign that the author is an idiot?

    Like Shakespear did? I guess a fair number of Highschool students might agree with you. :-)

  21. How can 71,800 web sites be wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    http://www.google.com/search?q=architecting

    I'm only being half cynical, really.

  22. Software Contest by ch-chuck · · Score: 3, Funny

    Brussels, Belgium (DP) - Bill Gates took 1st prize at the International Software Association's first annual contest for "Reliability and Security" in software architecture. However, contest officials caught him before he left the building and made him put it back.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  23. FIRST HINT THAT THIS BOOK SUCKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Architecting is not a word!!!

  24. Re:Tarchitecture? by aaron240 · · Score: 1

    Nah, they're actually in the book. Sad, but true.

  25. Nope.... by term8or · · Score: 1

    You get photoshop mockups??? You Lucky, lucky person.


    Step 3 is wrong. It should read:
    3.Sales/marketing can't be arsed to tell the dev team what they have promised the clients. Or when. Or even the name of the clients. Specifications are then drawn up that look like horoscopes, by the IT Manager (Ex-Army, ex-mechanical engineering, ex-three day programming course c. 1960) which are unimplementable.

    --



    "As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC
  26. They forgot one of the "architecture" words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    retardchitecture

    -- Alan

  27. Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For starters, the home-user market is dead (or, more accurately, about to give its death rattle). Anyone who wants to engage in some activity A has only to go online and download any of a number of open-source or freeware systems for doing A. Oh, there are still a few holdouts; you still see some off-the-shelf software for sale in Comp USA, and I suppose there are some naiive users who are willing to buy them. But, it's definitely going away, and fast.

    Organizations still buy software, but they generally contact the vendor directly, and secure site licenses. An example would be software development tools used by a government agency. In this case, there's very little marketing involved; a vendor submits a bid, competes with other vendors, and if successful, gets a contract. Any marketing that is done is done in a trade show, and the vendor generally understands the target market fairly well. Often, the vendor has a long relationship with their clients.

    Then, there's highly specialized niche tools, like maybe high-end animation software, or music software. But those markets are tiny, sometimes maybe only a few hundred clients in total.

    It seems to me that software is one of the few things with no mass market left. There are only specialized niches that still want to pay for software, and business categories where software has always been paid for in the same way. This is a book whose point I cannot fathom.

    THIS IS NOT A TROLL. I'm serious. What's the point of programmers and techies getting all worked up over some marketing blather? It's just not central to the business anymore.

    --
    Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    1. Re:Marketecture? What market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I agree with you somewhat. For instance, just how much more could be done to a word processor or a spreadsheet? They been done to death!

      In addition, (as a simple user) how much more do you want your OS to do? Notice that most of MS's advancements lately have been about adding applications to the OS, not about OS enhancements.

      I'm painting with a broad brush here, so please don't flame me. I quite frankly think that the erosion of mass market for these kind of things is a good thing. Why should we waste development talent on Yet Another _______. Instead, that development effort should be working on the next killer concept. Remember how revolutionary the concept of spreadsheets was? (or am I showing my age here?) If you come up with a software concept as useful and revolutionary as the spreadsheet was, I guarantee that mass market will develop. If you merely want to work over what was done in the past then, yeah, the mass market for that is dead!

    2. Re:Marketecture? What market? by petronivs · · Score: 1

      Games

      --
      This is the real signature
      (Beats those shadows on the cave wall, don't it?)
    3. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      (replying to AC): Ah, and there's the rub. Because the people who come up with the next amazing thing are probably going to be hobbyists, people who love computing for its own sake. And, they're probably going to be into open source, so it'll end up being their gift to the world -- immediately improved upon, expanded, and taken to all the amazing lengths the community has proven itself capable of.

      On the one hand, it'll be really amazing. We'll have some really, really cool software. But on the other hand, there still won't be a market; it'll still be downloadable and free.

      Of course, I think this is a Good Thing. Really good. ;)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    4. Re:Marketecture? What market? by FrzrBrn · · Score: 1
      While this may apply to the home (and possibly the business) pure software market, it's not the case across the board. I work for a company which makes specialized testing equipment controlled across a network from a PC. Believe me, there's MANY of my coworkers who would benefit from a book like this. I've lost count of the number of times that a great new feature has been made available, but the implementation has been such that it's rendered almost completely useless. This is primarily due to the fact that those who are implementing it have no real idea of how our customers interact with our products. (Depressing, but true)

      In every project, there's a number of small choices in how details are implemented that can make things wonderful and easy to use, or turn them into a nightmare of a user interface. Without understanding your target audience, the chances are very good that doing something one way makes perfect, logical sense to you, but has your customers tearing out their hair in frustration.

      --
      I read it on the Internet, it must be true!
    5. Re:Marketecture? What market? by joss · · Score: 1

      > Anyone who wants to engage in some activity A has only to go online and download any of a number of open-source or freeware systems for doing A.

      Yeah, everything has been invented already. Oh, wait.... haven't I heard that before somewhere.

      The reason software market seems dead at the moment, is we stopped making new applications. The small proportion of developers with an ounce of genuine inventiveness have spent last few years on server side. This doesnt mean that there are no new killer apps out there. In fact, we are due for a new renaissance.

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    6. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      But I was talking about applications software, which I got the impression the article was about.

      It's true, games are a huge market, and there's a lot of money to be made in producing them. Granted. However, games are developed in a completely different way from applications software, and the marketing and distribution work differently too.

      My understanding of game development is:

      1) A game development team selects a graphics engine and probably a sound engine. Then they learn the API.

      2) While they're learning the API, the writers and artists start designing the game itself. They sketch all the monsters, they set up all the maps, they figure out what puzzles the user is going to have to solve, and so on. Basically, they write a sort of screenplay for the game.

      3) Once the techies have the API figured out, and also maybe have figured out how to use tools to build CGI cut scenes, they start working from the designer's blueprint to build the game itself. Then the two teams basically work together to assemble the game from its logical parts. Voice actors are hired, recording facilities are leased, etc, etc.

      4) The semi-finished game starts going through QA, and final tweaking. Maybe a demo gets played at a convention, everybody oohs and aahs, and they start doing commercials (a recent development). The commercials follow the pattern for movies, not app software.

      5) The legal folks start setting up distribution deals with Comp USA, Staples, etc, and they set up CD-Printing services, box-packing services, and on and on. Finally, the game starts to ship.

      6) The tech team starts working on patches as soon as the script kiddies start to hack the game. Repeat (6) indefinitely, as long as the game is in use.

      Since this process is pretty much de-rigeur, do we really need a book by a marketing droid to discuss some other, not directly applicable process with us? If we've got seed money to issue a game, wouldn't we be hiring our OWN marketing droids to do this for us?

      See what I mean? Kind of a pointless book.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    7. Re:Marketecture? What market? by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1

      that's roughly how FPS games are developed. There are so many other genres of game that to take that as a global opinion is ridiculous. Lots of games are still built from scratch, since off-the-shelf stuff never does everything you want it to.

    8. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      BUT, is what you're describing a marketing issue? Or is it a usability issue? I see it as a usability issue -- there are many more directed books about that topic. It may be true that your engineers need a book, but I don't think it's THIS book. :)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    9. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Wait -- didn't the Second Renaissance end with the defeat of humanity? ;)

      You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not saying there won't be any new apps, or that everything has been invented already. I'm saying that all new truly innovative things tend to be created by interested individuals, who tend to release them open-source or freeware.

      Corporate development is ponderous, slow, and expensive. Individual programmers are fast on their feet, completely free (they're only spending their time), and able to turn on a dime if an assumption turns out to be false. THIS is why I say the market is dead.

      Your "new renaissance" is already happening, all around you.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    10. Re:Marketecture? What market? by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      It seems to me that software is one of the few things with no mass market left. There are only specialized niches that still want to pay for software, and business categories where software has always been paid for in the same way. This is a book whose point I cannot fathom.

      THIS IS NOT A TROLL. I'm serious. What's the point of programmers and techies getting all worked up over some marketing blather? It's just not central to the business anymore

      If marketing isn't central to your business, prepare to have no business left!

      I can't speak to whether or not there is a mass consumer market as I really don't pay attention to what's on the shelf at the local CompUSA. But you are correct that there are lots of specialized niches. What you ignore, though, is that many of these niches are populated by small businesses that need software not available on the mass market but it's too expensive to have contracted. But is is possible for small developer shops to build these vertical apps in niches that are too small for Oracle/Microsoft, etc to bother with. That's when you need to understand marketing. I'm truly amazed by what's available open source. Just about anything I've looked for online from fish farm data collecting to machine shop operations, there's some open source project that attempts to meet the demand. Which probably means there's money for someone to take that OS app and customize it for a few businesses and market it to them.
    11. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      I disagree partially. What I said could be held true for FPS, third-person fantasy, space games, basically anything which involves the simulation of some 3-D space. First, before anything else gets done, a group must have graphics and sound engines. Maybe they design their own or maybe they buy someone else's. It makes no difference. If they design their own, they're still producing an API, which a subset of their developers must learn to use. If they design their own, you just add one additional pre-step to my sequence. See what I mean? The overall process is going to be the same, whether they build their API from scratch or buy one.

      Overall, how would any game be produced differently? And, I'm not going to get into a discussion of games like Snood, which are generally produced by one or two people and "marketed" over the web anyway. I'm talking about good-sized projects, here, stuff that requires more than one person.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    12. Re:Marketecture? What market? by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: IANAGameDeveloper.

      In the best games, design comes first. You write the technology to support the design, you don't design the GAME mechanics within the constraints of technology. Sounds like some kind of karma-whoring aphorism, but it's true in all the literature that I've read about game design in the real world. The visionary type (Sid Meier, Warren Spector) comes up with a Big Idea and takes it to his tech director to see if it's feasible. The tech director figures out how much of it can be done and gets the ball rolling on technical design, while the visionary designs the game mechanics - stuff like what skills a character can have or what kind of missiles a plane will carry. IMO this is why licensed games are so cheaply done a lot of the time - much of the conceptual work is already done for you, and in the case of licenses like D&D, then you even have the game mechanics already created - you just need to write an engine around them. you still can't write an engine without knowing what the game is that will be running on it.

    13. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but, see, here you're painting yourself into a corner. You admit that my point about open source has validity. And, you admit that just about anything anyone might want to do is probably available open-source. But then, you assert that there's still a need to market these open source projects to small businesses, even though you've already admitted they could just go download the stuff -- so where's the market? IN reality, it's like, "Here's the website, here's an FTP client". Where's the sale? Where's the money you're talking about?

      It isn't there.

      About the only way you could make a buck, and it wouldn't be a very BIG buck, would be to contract to set up the software for the small business in question. They might be aware of the software, they might want to use it, but they might not be capable enough to install it for themselves. Still, this isn't "software marketing". This is "PC Tutor to the rescue". It's not the same. Again, the book isn't going to provide any value here.

      Also, please remember that anyone who downloads an OSS program to "customize it for a few businesses and market it to them" is violating the GPL unless he resubmits his changes back to the community. So he'll be selling what is essentially a free product -- how happy will his customers be when they find out they could have just waited a little longer and downloaded it for free? See? It doesn't work.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    14. Re:Marketecture? What market? by joss · · Score: 1

      > all new truly innovative things tend to be created by interested individuals, who tend to release them open-source or freeware

      > truly innovative things tend to be created by interested individuals
      - agreed

      > tend to release them open-source or freeware

      I am not convinced of that. Only about thirty major applications have been invented so far.
      [Word processor, Spreadsheet, webbrowser, RDBMS, music editor, pixel manipulators[photoshop], vector manipulator[corel]...] The last major new application I can think of was napster. The only really important end user application that was *invented* as open source was the webbrowser.

      > Your "new renaissance" is already happening, all around you

      No, we have different standards. The revolution I am thinking of definitely isn't happening around me, or if it is, it's hidden from view right now.

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    15. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Which is why I said that most companies will probably be acquiring a graphics engine first, so that they have the capability to create a game (without that, it doesn't matter HOW good your storyline is). What you're describing is an already-existing gaming company, in which someone cool has come up with a cool idea. But, you're leaving out the part where, independently, their developers have mastered the use of whatever tools they have licensed. I think it's probably set up like separate groups, you know? You've got your technical staff, who have, say, three or four different graphics engines for different purposes, and people who know how to use them. And, you've got your creative staff who actually come up with the games. When a new game idea comes about, someone makes the determination of the best way to implement it, what engine to use, etc. And, they pull resources from the pool of available resources to do the work.

      But, overall, still -- it's the process I was talking about. Someone has to learn how the graphics engine works before anything can be coded. Someone else has to come up with the storyline before anything can be coded. And, so on. You can't say that they just figure out how to code it when they're done designing it, because I doubt anyone works that way. I think they start getting their ducks in a row as soon as a basic idea is suggested: acquiring resources, assigning people, etc. It's like engineering, in a way.

      I'm not a game developer, either -- I'm in applications programming hell. But, I can't complain; it's a living. I might get into trying to put together a shareware game at some point, I dunno. It might be fun, and there are some really good open-source engines available.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    16. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Hidden from view? Or beneath your radar?

      Also, why do you say that there are only thirty major application types that have been developed? There are thousands of projects on Sourceforge. Go take a look. And, tons of new stuff comes out all the time.

      Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it isn't there. :)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    17. Re:Marketecture? What market? by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      Yeah, but, see, here you're painting yourself into a corner. You admit that my point about open source has validity. And, you admit that just about anything anyone might want to do is probably available open-source. But then, you assert that there's still a need to market these open source projects to small businesses, even though you've already admitted they could just go download the stuff -- so where's the market? IN reality, it's like, "Here's the website, here's an FTP client". Where's the sale? Where's the money you're talking about?

      It isn't there.
      About the only way you could make a buck, and it wouldn't be a very BIG buck, would be to contract to set up the software for the small business in question. They might be aware of the software, they might want to use it, but they might not be capable enough to install it for themselves. Still, this isn't "software marketing". This is "PC Tutor to the rescue". It's not the same. Again, the book isn't going to provide any value here.

      You're forgetting that most people on /. (at least the posters) are well versed in the net and where to find things and in general, quite expert at using computers. Most small business owners are not. In fact, based on the years when customer support was part of my job, I'd say that most computer users are not knowledgeable about computers except for the tasks they use them for, no matter how expert they might be at say, behavioral psychology.

      What I'm getting at is that the guy who runs e.g., a small print shop may know that he has a need and may intuit that a computer could solve it, but his knowledge of how to find a solution ends there. Do you really think your average florist is going to do "./make?" He may find a few VARs or a consultant and conclude that their one-off custom solutions are just too expensive. So there's a business with a need. Where there is one, there are usually hundreds more with the same need.
      This is where the entrepreneurial developer comes in. He may either craft a solution from scratch (one general enough that it fits many businesses, but is still specific to the niche), or he can find an open source project to start from and take it from there. GPL? The average customer wouldn't have the slightest interest in source code. So you give it to him if he requests it, is he really likely to decide to suddenly enter the software development business? Based on my experience (admittedly selling hardware), he's more likely to just refer someone else to you.

      For a while, I sold a small device from my apartment for approx $100 (depending on options) and made a bit of money and learned a little about business at the same time. I could open any electronics hobby magazine and see essentially the same product for $25, sometimes less! Yet I sold over 200 units for prices up to $125 each. Why? It was worth it to the companies who purchased them from me to not have to bother with setup issues or other minor irritations. My product did what they needed with minimal fiddling (I gave away the source code to all the demo/example programs on disk for them to customize to their own uses) and the time of their engineers was valuable enough to be worth the extra money. Lots of happy repeat customers.

      People buy products that are available for free elsewhere all the time. I could go fishing or buy fish at the market. Home Depot sells dirt fer chrissake! It's all about perceived value.
    18. Re:Marketecture? What market? by freek_daddy · · Score: 1

      IMHO, you're dramatically overstating the the decline of the home-user market. I suggest your "naiive users" category is a whole lot bigger than you think.

      Similarly, your asessment of how organizations buy software is misinformed. There's lots and lots of marketing (even when the vendor is being contacted directly) and lots and lots of off-the-shelf software being sold among businesses. Site licenses are common, but by no means ubiquitous.

      I work for a large software company that sells directly to customers for the most part, and has long relationships with our clients. Marketing is everywhere. Even between companies with long histories, customers still expect to go to trade shows and be sweet talked and see glossy brochures advertising the latest features. Marketing is an end in an of itself - you don't have to create a product that people need, you just have to convince people that they need the product you create. It sucks, to be sure, but it's a tried and true rule of business. Our particular software market is measured in 10s of billions of dollars at the moment and will inevitably grow in the future.

      End result: there's still a sizeable market for this book.

      That being said, if anyone says "tarchitecture" to my face, I'm punching 'em in the nose.

      BTW: If you have to say "THIS IS NOT A TROLL. I'm serious." you just might be a little trollish. My advice is to rethink your post - either you're a genius and the troll-labelling fools just haven't caught up, or you just think you are.

    19. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      I dunno about your central argument; it seems to be "if people are too stupid to know you're selling them something free, they'll pay you for it". I have a funny feeling that business model is going to break down at some point... And, anyway, who wants to gyp people? That's bad karma, man. Even if you're, say, Catholic, and you know you'll be forgiven if you can make it to confession, what happens if you get hit by a bus on your way to church?

      God is watching. ;)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    20. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      I don't have any issues with most of your post. You were doing fine up to your last paragraph. You must be new to Slashdot; here, in the land of Moderator Madness(TM) anything even remotely controversial or contrary could be randomly marked as a troll. So, since my post was bound to draw a little fire, I made sure to clarify that I was not trolling. And, I am NOT trollish -- there is no need to "rethink" my post. It was my opinion; it IS my opinion; and it will remain my opinion until someone convinces me it is incorrect.

      You didn't manage to do that. ;)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    21. Re:Marketecture? What market? by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      it seems to be "if people are too stupid to know you're selling them something free, they'll pay you for it".

      No. That's why I made the comment about Home Depot selling dirt and rocks. I've bought dirt (topsoil) from the Depot. I'm well aware that I could drive over to a state forest and dig up my own, same goes for the rocks. But it's a better use of my time/money to just drive 2 miles and pay a corporation that's provided these commodities in a nice packaged form that's easy to use.

      That's (part of) the point I'm making: people will pay for convenience and for skills they don't have and have no interest in acquiring. Let's beat the dead horse some more: I have a degree in electrical engineering. People have paid me to design circuits and software for them. All the knowledge needed for my degrees could be found in books in libraries and is thus free for the taking. And for that matter, many of the circuits I've designed could be found on the net in one form or another. So why do they pay me for this knowledge when it's available for free?
    22. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Taking your points one at a time:

      NO, you CAN'T just drive over to a state forest and steal dirt. That dirt belongs to the state, to whatever environmental agency runs the park system. If they catch you digging up their topsoil, the least that'll happen to you is that you'll get slapped with a misdemeanor and a fine, and probably banned for life from the park system. If you want to know WHY this is illegal, consider what would happen if everyone got the same idea and started digging up dirt. So, this is a really bad example. Home Depot sells dirt and rocks PRECISELY BECAUSE you can't just go out and dig up your own.

      So, moving right along. Yes, it is true people will pay for skills they don't have. Which is why I said that installing Linux projects and such for people is like "PC tutor to the rescue" because that's one of the things freelance PC-Tutors do: they help people with their software. But you're selling assistance, not software. Understand this: this is NOT a software market. This is a "tutor/assistance" market. And, getting twenty bucks an hour for helping some noob set up a database isn't quite the same as selling thousands of units of software, ok? THINK.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    23. Re:Marketecture? What market? by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      I'm going to make a final attempt at this: either you're so stuck in conventional thinking that you can't get it, or you simply refuse to.
      NO, you CAN'T just drive over to a state forest and steal dirt

      Then instead of topsoil, make it firewood since I know that's perfectly legal here. But it's arguing semantics. It's not hard to find many examples of people willing to pay for resouces that can be had for free.

      As far as the rest of your post, like I said: either you refuse to get it or you can only see the possibilities in terms of selling PC help. I am talking about writing from scratch, or modifying an OS application into a vertical application that can be sold to a few hundred or few dozen clients, or whatever minimum number is necessary to make it worthwhile. That modification may be as small as setting up a few parameters. If you think this is cheating someone by selling essentially free software, well I guess you're free to do so. I disagree. Even if all you do is repackage it so it's easy to install, you are still adding value. And the amount of that value will determine whether or not you have customers.
    24. Re:Marketecture? What market? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Another dot-bomb drone, ignorantly soldiering on and trying to pass off his weak business plans as the next big thing. Christ... I thought this kind of crap was dead and buried.

      Don't give me that dot-com babble-speak "you just don't get it" bullshit because I don't agree with your lame, sad, poorly-thought-through ideas. It's insulting and presumptious, and makes YOU look like a horse's ass. You're as weak as a kitten and as dumb as a sack of hammers; I'm thoroughly unimpressed.

      I'm not wasting any more breath on you. Feh. Begone.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    25. Re:Marketecture? What market? by freek_daddy · · Score: 1

      Well ... I kind of agree. I've been on Slashdot for quite a while - it seems to me that Slashdot moderation is exactly what one would expect from the Slashdot reader demographic; in large part capricious, reactionary and immature. While there are some posts moderated as trolls because the moderators disagree, there are a lot of posts moderated as trolls because they're trolls.

      I'll still suggest that simply holding an opinion doesn't mean you're not a troll. And I still hold that saying "I'm not a troll" means "I am a troll" about 95% of the time.

      That will remain my opinion until someone convinces me it is incorrect. ;-)

      Cheers.

  28. what you really need to know. by twitter · · Score: 1
    "Know the marketplace" is a vauge concept. It can mean anything from "know how dominant (Micro$oft) software works to leverage user knowledge" to "know what people want to do". This book looks like it also considers stuff that most of us consider fluff, actual marketing, "branding", sales and all that.

    I don't have much use for this book. When I want to write a program, I know what I want it to do. If other people can use it, great! There are plenty of projects, like Gnome and KDE, that are doing a great job with user interfaces and all that other stuff. Their interfaces manage to incorporate M$ stuff without crippling it or pulling in too much of the intentionally confusing bits. Indeed, most of the free software I use comes with good documentation and installs via apt. If any project I work on lives up to those standards, it's sure to be picked up. If not, oh well, that's alright. I'm happy if my project meets my own needs.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  29. As Indigo Montoya might say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    You keep you using this term "Software Architecture". I do not think it means, what you think it means.

    1. Re:As Indigo Montoya might say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha! Thanks, made my day.

  30. Ideas mesh well with eXtreme programming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    XP is an outcome oriented methodology. The idea is to acheive your end goal without a lot of pedantry, driven by a pervasive testing regimine.

    The so called marketecture of this book is outcome oriented too. Tirage is at the heart of marketecture. Throw away nifty geeky design ornaments in favor of maximizing your return. Really take into account your target.

    I especially think the section on discarding portability is a wise choice for the bottom line. It leads to faster development and more powerful software which can take advantage of platform and processor specific features.

    The whole concept works well with XP because we are interested more in pragmatics than aesthetics. The aesthetic may work well in academia, but it more often results in longer time to market in the real world.

    1. Re:Ideas mesh well with eXtreme programming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, are you fulla shit!

      XP:
      Pervasive testing regime? surely you jest!

      Throw away nifty geeky design ornaments... you obviously have never even looked at the XP desktop or played with their fucking stupid disapearing menu items!

    2. Re:Ideas mesh well with eXtreme programming by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that the XP menu system is multi-functional?

  31. When you are a sleazy buzzword marketer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do you get when you combine a marketing executive with a marketing executive?

    Masshole.

  32. "Architecting" by Paracelcus · · Score: 0

    Is not a word!
    Damn it!

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  33. Translation for Hireabiltiy by rsborg · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ... know your domain.

    Too often I've been telling my friends in the software industry that when hiring into a software company, the primary thing a prospective employer should ask for is domain knowledge. ie, if you're looking to join Cisco's IOS team, you better have a pretty fundamental understanding of networking and routing. If you're joining an CRM software company, knowledge of CRM (at least a specialty like sales force automation) is the primary thing they will want. Even better is direct knowledge of the product/architecture itself. Programming experience is, of course, neccessary, but runs secondary to the actual domain knowledge.

    C++, Java, etc.. don't matter as much these days because everyone knows them ... including those offshore programmers who are probably better and/or cheaper than you. Understanding and becoming an expert in a domain gives you a value add that a non-knowledgeable person can't match.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    1. Re:Translation for Hireabiltiy by DukeyToo · · Score: 1

      It depends entirely on what the job is. If the position is for a person that must do sweeping redesigns of the entire business IT infrastructure, then domain knowledge is very important. But good communication skills will allow someone with solid design skills to do just as well.

      All the domain knowledge in the world does not make you a good programmer; it makes you a user with some tech knowledge :)

      That said, becoming an expert in a certain domain is certainly one approach to building a career. It is similar to the approach of becoming a specialist in a single product though -- when that product becomes outdated and no longer in use, you are in trouble. Translation = if the business domain you are in no longer has need for your type of tech skills, or even worse, if you get a bad reputation (even undeservedly), then you are stuffed.

      --
      Most writers regard truth as their most valuable possession, and therefore are most economical in its use - Mark Twain
    2. Re:Translation for Hireabiltiy by BigGerman · · Score: 1

      Interesting point.
      I think I respectfully disagree - In my experience, I went through a lot of "domains": equipment leasing, retail/distribution, defense and space, cosmetics, insentives management, pharmacy, logistics, government - and all the time the software problems were orthogonal to the "domain" problems.
      Authentication, access control, persistence, queries, schema - the things that an application consists of seem to be not related to the application domain. If you are good at putting them together, you will succeed regardless of your domain experience.

    3. Re:Translation for Hireabiltiy by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      Being a domain-oriented organization is a double-edged sword. While it's true that it is useful for everyone to be knowledgeable of your business area, it's also true that there is a tendency to think "inside the box" because there is a lack of diversity of experience.

      In addition, there is value in having a few people around with many years of programming experience regardless of the domain. They can help avoid some of the software pitfalls that are domain-independent.

      Having said that, your point was about being hired and you are probably right.

    4. Re:Translation for Hireabiltiy by rsborg · · Score: 1
      Interesting point. I think I respectfully disagree - In my experience, I went through a lot of "domains": equipment leasing, retail/distribution, defense and space, cosmetics, insentives management, pharmacy, logistics, government - and all the time the software problems were orthogonal to the "domain" problems.
      Authentication, access control, persistence, queries, schema - the things that an application consists of seem to be not related to the application domain. If you are good at putting them together, you will succeed regardless of your domain experience.

      You may be correct.

      I have no doubt that for certain types of work (independent contracting/consulting/etc) basic skills are crucial, and you will be measured by them, and your ability to "learn into" whatever you're hired to do.

      However, I was involved in the hiring process for my team just a few months ago, and we turned down MANY people who were very qualified in domains that we weren't interested in, generally very intelligent, and also people who might have been language gurus (got corrected on my Java questions, for example). The finalists all had one thing in common: They knew a lot about the domain we play in, and specifically, the product/architecture (proprietary to our company). Learning point for me.

      And don't get me started about something else that is rarely mentioned on /., hiring through personal networks (which is critically important).

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  34. Welcome to the real world by joss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > 3.5) Developers firmly tell sales/marketing no and why not, cc owner

    Try it in a US corporate structure and your career will be stuck in mud forever. You will be penalised for lacking a "can do" attitude. Meanwhile some other twinkie will claim that everything is fine and promise delivery. Then they fail miserably. Now comes the weird part: The collosal failure of the twinkie will be immediately forgotten and he will be promoted, but your negative attitude will be remembered. Nobody is less popular than the guy who correctly anticipates failure. When it turns out you were right, somehow the PHBs will figure failure is your fault even if you are not involved at all.

    In terms of what will help you climb the corporate ladder, these are your options in declining order:

    1. Predict success and succeed
    2. Predict success and fail
    3. Predict failure and succeed
    4. Predict failure and fail [or don't try]

    Option 4 is a LONG way below option 2.

    I am not recommending [2], just pointing out how things work. A better option is to get the hell out of that kind of environment.

    --
    http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    1. Re:Welcome to the real world by stdcallsign · · Score: 1

      I'm glad I do not work where you work.
      Some of the most successful and respected, PMs, programmers and designers I've had the pleasure of working with, from exceptionally large (think major aerospace corporation based out of Seattle) corporations down to mom and pop chop shops, were the ones who could accurately nail down the resources required for whatever the analysts and marketers dreamt up. It seems the more critical the person doing the resource analysis was, and the more controversial their ruling, the more everyone loved them. In many cases, all it took was a single miscalculation towards the optimistic end that resulted in a project going over time and budget that stripped the people of their credibility.

      If a person is going to take flak for dashing the unrealistic fancies of a company before it loses $2M on that project, then the environment they work in seems more like a medivial barony and less like a successful corporation. (the term killing the messenger comes to mind)

      stdcallsign

  35. "Architecting" is a word! by nadam · · Score: 1

    To start with, all languages exist due to the evolution of languages. New words appear and old words disappear. Nouns turn into verbs and verbs turn into nouns. I believe the reason for turning "architect" into a verb in this case is because in software development you separate between the software's architecture, design and implementation. The programmer is implementing, the system designer is designing and the system architect is... well... not designing. That's what the system designer is doing. The system architect is architecting. Ok, not everybody must use that word. You're free to use whatever words you want (at least in my country). I wouldn't mind using "architecting" whenever I need to distinguish it from "designing". I will probably never use "marchitecture". And I will definitely never ever use "tarchitecture". However, I don't mind if other people use those words. It's up to them.

  36. marketecture and tarchitecture by pmz · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Smoke and mirrors. How stupid.

    For example, Microsoft's "marketecture" is actually a lying-through-the-teeth-marketing department coupled with an unscrupulous aquire-and-crush department coupled with leadership that has a psychological deformity that makes them believe in world domination. Their "tarchitecture" are too-smart-for-their-own-good college graduates and a counter-intuitive culture of cut-n-paste and stock options.

    In the "real world", which Microsoft is not a part of, there is no distinction between "marketecture" and "tarchitecure". Well designed software is genuinely useful, with a healthy set of features, a healthy user interface, and robustness. I believe I will call it, simply, "architecture." If this "architecture" does not truly fill the customers need, then capitalistic natural selection provides an honest solution.

    You may claim that Microsoft has truly filled the needs of many people, but, upon closer inspection, this is not true. Many others have found ways to fill the same needs better, but, somehow, Microsoft skirted the laws of nature and invented their own microuniverse of delusion. I believe they will be short-lived in the grand scheme of things, where truly superior architectures will come in and make them obselete.

  37. Baloney by pmz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The chapter reminds us that guaranteeing support for 6 operating systems and 4 database backends and 3 browsers means that we have to support and provide quality assurance for 6x4x3=72 combinations of products.

    I believe very strongly that portable coding is possible and practical. The fact that Visual Basic is so alluring to the lazy should be no excuse. There are such things as Java, POSIX, ANSI SQL, ANSI C, etc.. Most frequently, deviations from these standards are small and add functionality, such as BLOBS in SQL, that aren't consistently implemented, yet. These deviations can be supported by isolating them in the software and providing abstractions that make them invisible to the rest of the application. This is called good architecture. I'm sorry that there are so many people out there who are too stubborn, lazy, and/or stupid to recognize the benefits of good architecture and portability.

    The cost analyses that "prove" that non-portable software are better most likely include false assumptions about the cost of supporting additional platforms. They usually leave out the costs saved by organizing the software well, which makes support cheaper through fast problem resolution, fast support for new requirements, etc. Addionally, what are the costs of rewriting from scratch when the chosen platform becomes obselete or the vendor tanks? I'd say those costs are so great that creating portable software should be the rule rather than the exception.

    For example, how many companies would simply go bankrupt if Microsoft went they way of Enron? I'd say that our economy is much more fragile than most people will admit.

  38. Architecting? by Hooptie · · Score: 1
    Damnit! You have blundered onto one of my pet peeves. The word "architect" is a noun not a verb. It is not possible to "architect" anything.

    I know this is slashdot, where grammar and spelling are somewhat, shall we say, arbitrary, but damnit dont use nouns as verbs!

    Hooptie

    --
    "Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
  39. Re:Lets all be ostriches.. not! by patbob · · Score: 1
    Developers shouldn't care about the market.

    Why not? Nobody is suggesting developers do the marketing, just that it is beneficial if they understand about that aspect of the business. The wider their view of the whole process, the better decisions they will make, which will result in a product that is more marketable. No matter what your process or how high quality it is, no product specification from marketing will ever be so detailed that the developers never have to make any decisions during design and implementation that influence the marketability of the product.

    --
    Welcome to the net of 1000 lies. Upgrades are scheduled soon that should bring us to the 10,000 lies mark.
  40. Alternative definitions by Atario · · Score: 1
    • Marketecture: architecture done by someone named Mark
    • Tarchitecture: the design of a roadbed
    • Farkitecture: what Drew Curtis does all day
    • Sarkitecture: the organization behind the guards in Tron
    • Darkitecture: the buildings in Tim Burton's Batman movies, or Blade Runner
    • Quarkitecture: how you wind up with five-quarked subatomic particle
    • Barkitecture: secondary phloem, periderm, lenticels
    • Narcitecture: planning a drug-related sting operation
    • Arkitecture: how Noah built his boat
    • Parkitecture: the annoying way they lay out parking structures so that there's always some sort of deficiency
    (By the way, none of these are to be confused with Barkitexture, Darkitexture, etc.)
    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  41. Architect this by adso · · Score: 1

    Not to be like Spike Lee or anything, but I'm mildly annoyed by the use of the term "architecture" in regards to software design. For the most part, I can let it go, but damn, using it as a verb? With marketecture and tarchitecture?

    I spent 5 years of my life to get an architecture degree, worked 3 years for firms, and yet I can't put my name anywhere near the word "architecture" until I get my license or I get popped for a section 5536 (Practice Without License or Holding Self Out as Architect).

    I don't mind the geeks having it, just keep it away from the damn marketing droids.

  42. Larchitecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'll admit it.. once I got to the funny words at the beginning, I stopped reading because I was gigging too much.

    Larchitecture: the part of the design concerned with locking users into your product so that the marketecture and tarchitecture become irrelevant.

  43. Remember by freek_daddy · · Score: 1

    There is no noun that can't be verbed.

  44. No law? by mrdabolina · · Score: 0

    Interestingly the writer does not mention law in the book? IP is pretty important, especially when dealing with open-source and marketing. The problem is that you get marketers and software developers together. You should really get lawyers and software people together. That way you might defend long-term problems. Marketing is by nature short-sighted. Lawyers are not.

  45. Remember "Ovation?" by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    Around the days when Context MBA and Lotus 1-2-3 were slugging it out, the trade press was filled with dozens of stories about a hot new software product named "Ovation." It was one of the first big products to be managed and launched by MBA's, and it almost literally fits the above description. The MBA's were simply brilliant at lining up venture capital, getting press attention, making sure the product had the right features, doing absolutely everything right. The press raved about the screen shots. Everyone was sure it was going to be the biggest success in PC history up to that time. Because, for the first time, you had real business people on board and in charge from day one.

    Except they omitted one small detail.

    Developing the product.