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How Console Piracy Affects Gaming

Posted by simoniker on from the very-glum-felon-roger dept.

Thanks to GameSpy for posting a three-part article discussing the problems of pirated console games, and the steps being taken to combat the problem. The article talks to IDSA boss Doug Lowenstein, and suggests that "..console piracy is a worldwide industry, as multi-national as wireless telephones or McDonalds hamburgers.", also contrasting the piracy problems of the major manufacturers: "Nintendo's piracy problems are more localized than those of Sony and Microsoft. While GameCube piracy has not been a problem, Game Boy piracy, on the other hand, has proliferated."

65 comments

  1. Lik-Sang by jnguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo banded together to make Lik-Sang stop selling its "back-up" products, I think it stopped piracy only to a certain extent. Now people just go else where. There will always be pirates and people that buy and make illegal games. Piracy affects the ability for certain game makers to make good games, because if they don't recieve income from games in the past, they will be unable to create games in the future.

    1. Re:Lik-Sang by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      Illegal and 'need a copy' are 2 different things.
      A cart can be pretty sturdy, but what happens when your most favorite GB game gets rolled over by a 5 legged rolly chair?? You just cant send the game back to nintendo with a small fee, get a new game which you owned.

      The same problem exists with CD's. Does Nintendo provide a backup service where you send in scratched/broken minis and get a new one? NOPE. They tell you buy another full license at 40-60$.

      Backups are part of our copyright, and any format which they actively attempt to protect , should NOT BE GRANTED A COPYRIGHT.

      --
    2. Re:Lik-Sang by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Let's say you buy some type of figurine (you know, the stupid little statues that fat ladies buy).

      The design is copyrighted- you can't copy it. But, if you break the figurine, they don't replace it for you.

      It is not the companies responsibility to ensure that you always have use of their product- it is their responsibility to make sure that the product they originally give to you is what you paid for.

      And you can be damn sure that if you went around trying to duplicate and sell those figurines, you would hear from the company.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    3. Re:Lik-Sang by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And you can be damn sure that if you went around trying to duplicate and sell those figurines, you would hear from the company.

      They key is in the 'and sell' part. Only a small number of people would bother to justify selling copies of games (though more would try to justify buying those copies). Backing up copyrighted material is covered under fair use in the US.

      Some PC game publishers do have a policy of sending replacement CDs for a small fee if you return a scratched or otherwise damaged disc to them directly. As long as software publishers continue to 'license' software instead of selling it, they should be obligated to replace licensed copies at a moderate fee to cover the cost of replacement.

      Of course, in some cases, depending on how long you've had the game before it the media was broken, it may be easier to go pick up another copy, and may even cost the same amount (though in my experience console games stay at a higher price longer than PC games).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    4. Re:Lik-Sang by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With the statuette, you may for the making of the statuette. With games, you pay for the DATA. The disc/cart is just a way to transport the data.

      And if we're paying for that 1 copy of the data, we should be able to, for a fair price, send the remains of the broken media and get a new disc/cart.

      Since MANY game manufacturers do not allow that, we're forced to use "semi-legal" means where you cannot tell if it's backup or copyright violation. And now add in zone-based game plays where a Japanaes game wont work in the use (GameCube exempt as a switch inside which does this). You need a modchip to play a LEGIT game.

      And with the statue, it prevents making them in mass quantities. If you were to use pictures from artist XYZ, you can use them for private displays. But you had better not sell them publically without written consent. And would you want to make a cast of that statuette, and prepare it, and make it? Dont think so. It's a wee bit easier copying data, which is the issue. Not some ditzy statuette statement.

      --
    5. Re:Lik-Sang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Lik-Sang case did not even begin to stop piracy as we know it. Lik-Sang was actually selling a good number of flashable rom carts to publishers/developers for beta testing. So it is somewhat ironic that the one of the biggest settlement cases went against a vendor who wasn't completely facilitating piracy.

      Frankly, piracy isn't just going to go away. One issue is that _VERY_ few games are worth your $50+. Games like Halo, BF1942, Metroid Prime, etc. are worth your cash, but most games put out are hardly worth a fraction of that. Piracy can be a great way to preview a game to see if it's worth the $$. Check it out, and if it's worth it BUY IT, and if not then uninstall it and trash the CD, it isn't like you're going to play it anyway.

    6. Re:Lik-Sang by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      I don't really like copy protection, but a lot of the 'I was just making a backup' logic sounds a lot like the 'For Tobacco Use Only' signs that you see in headshops.

      How many people are really making legitimate backup copies, and how many are pirating the software?

      The companies MUST be able to protect their time, and effort in creating the software.

      If there were no pirates, there would be no copy protection.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    7. Re:Lik-Sang by ahfoo · · Score: 1

      "The design is copyrighted"
      Yes, but the customer did not purchase the design, did they? They purchased the doll and the doll cannot be copyrighted.
      You are a troll.

    8. Re:Lik-Sang by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Ahfoo-

      First of all chucklehead, I said 'figurine', not 'doll'.

      And I would recommend that you learn something about copyright law before you post your ignorant statements. Yes, a figurine CAN be copyrighted- it falls into the 'statuary' category.

      But of course, if you don't bother to educate yourself, then my comments would make no sense.

      I still hold the same opinion. The copyrighted material is the artistic work (software/statue) The physical material you buy is the delivery system. Whether you break your Nintendo cartridge or break your figurine, the company is not liable for your loss. They did not guarantee your use of the product forever, they just sold you that one copy.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    9. Re:Lik-Sang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

  2. Come on... by greg987123 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wee all know that most people wouldn't pirate a game that they would want to buy in the first place.
    We really need to worry about more serious things.

    1. Re:Come on... by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wanting to buy a game and wanting a game are two quite different things. I might really want Final Fantasy XCVII Ultra Edition but might not want to pay £40 for it. That's when I might pirate it (hypothetically of course).

      Your statement is moot because pirating a game is the opposite of buying it so if they're gonna buy it then they're not gonna pirate it. Try this:

      We all know that most people would pirate a game that they want but don't want to buy.

      These 'most people' make up quite a large amount of gamers and are the reason why game piracy is a multi million dollar industry

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    2. Re:Come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, theres money to be made in that. Outfitting private craft with military grade weapons is a niche industry.

    3. Re:Come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but the legit game industry is a multi billion dollar one.

  3. is this really a problem? by pb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the vast majority of people just go to the store and buy their games--either when they come out, when they get cheaper, used, whatever--and the actual percentage of people who mod their conosles is relatively small. Obviously you'd have to study this, but like the interview says, they aren't hurting.

    However, what about the people who do mod their consoles and download games? I knew a guy who had tons of Playstation games and almost every Dreamcast game period. He had more games than he could ever buy, and he was a college student. He still spent what money he had on Playstation and Dreamcast peripherals and whatnot.

    So how much money did the big video game companies lose on him personally? Probably the price of a few games, at most. And how much did they make? Well, I don't know, but I had the opportunity to try out just about any game I wanted to for the Playstation and the Dreamcast, without having to buy it. Now I have a Playstation, and I have quite a few games for it, all legal.

    So I guess the question here is, does the price of the one or two games the average modder would otherwise end up having to pay for outweigh the incredible amount of free advertising they do?

    Personally, I'd say their time would be better spent going after the professional pirates, who can produce professional-looking games at base manufacturing costs. And I'd say the same thing to the RIAA and the MPAA. Just as long as you aren't actively screwing over the vast majority of law-abiding customers, you have nothing to fear; this is probably why the RIAA is so scared right now. :)

    --
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
    1. Re:is this really a problem? by dogbowl · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, its a huge problem just not in the better established countries like the US or the EU.

      If you ever travel to South America and parts of Asia, its hard to find a *legitimate* copy of a game. Burned copies are being sold on every street corner ... its just the norm in some places. I've been to a large, established store dedicated to video games in Istanbul and was unable to find a single legitimate video game - they were all bootlegs!


      --

      These pretzels are making me thirsty.
    2. Re:is this really a problem? by Eneff · · Score: 1

      it's not the same company....

  4. What I'd like to see... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is the console 'backup' makers open chip firmware and tracings so that anybody can make those devices.

    Lets see how Console makers like them apples.

    --
    1. Re:What I'd like to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I'd like to see is the console 'backup' makers open chip firmware and tracings so that anybody can make those devices.

      Not going to happen. Why would it? The people who sell you the means for backup (or illegal copying, whatever) are doing it for profit, just like the original video game publishers.

      There's no philanthropic motive behind Lik-Sang. They're just trying to make a buck, too, and aren't going to sell themselves out to "make a statement." You may want the same end result, but don't assume it's for the same reason.

    2. Re:What I'd like to see... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1


      >>>>>Not going to happen. Why would it? The people who sell you the means for backup (or illegal copying, whatever) are doing it for profit, just like the original video game publishers.

      Exactly. And if they're knocked out of that business of selling mod-circuits by those companies, I'd release all my information about the firmware code and PCB's. You dont think that would give Sony, MS, and Nintendo a collective heart attack? It's not profit, it's called REVENGE.

      >>>>There's no philanthropic motive behind Lik-Sang. They're just trying to make a buck, too, and aren't going to sell themselves out to "make a statement." You may want the same end result, but don't assume it's for the same reason.

      I know what they do. They sell the equipment for backup and copyright violation. And if "They" sue to stop you and they succeed, I'd release all my info about them. After all, if Lik-Sang cant make money from mods, nobody should.

      Sort of like Salting the earth knowing you'll lose it anyways.

      --
  5. Yes, I've heard that before. by pb · · Score: 1

    How much do the console companies charge for games in South America and Asia, anyhow (and how many do they ship)? If it's the same price, then I'd wager that a lot more people can't afford them (or consoles in general) in the first place.

    Also, were these professionally done, or just cheap home CD-burner jobs?

    --
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
    1. Re:Yes, I've heard that before. by dogbowl · · Score: 1

      Yes, I beleive the prices are comparable to US prices, so they would be out of reach from a typical teenager (I guess).
      And the quality varies. In Bangkok, professionally made copies are the norm; in South America its usually some cheap burned disc.

      And there are TONS of pirated game boy, mega drive (genesis) and famicom cartidges floating around the world. TONS I tell ya!!

      --

      These pretzels are making me thirsty.
    2. Re:Yes, I've heard that before. by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      As the article stated: Sony doesn't sell Playstations or Playstation games in South America. That means the piracy rate is 100% minus whatever the import rate happens to be (which I doubt is very high, since it's normally pretty expensive to import consoles and games).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    3. Re:Yes, I've heard that before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Sony don't sell consoles/games in South America then they can't lose any money from piracy in South America!

      (No I don't condone piracy, just stating a fact!)

    4. Re:Yes, I've heard that before. by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      f Sony don't sell consoles/games in South America then they can't lose any money from piracy in South America!

      Actually, Sony doesn't sell consoles/games in South America because piracy is so bad there, so they essentially lose every legitimate sale they could have made. At the same time, they chose not to sell their system there, so it's their problem. It's a nice little circle there.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  6. I think before by Apreche · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think I talked about this before, but now I get to post early so more people will see it!

    Pretty much piracy is a double edged sword. If your system is pirateable like MS or Sony you get increased market share. But at the same time if your system is unpirateable you get more profit per sale.

    Check this. Playstation games are pirateable, probably the most pirated games ever. The PS1 is a cheap and easily obtainable and moddable piece of hardware. Low income people (most of the world) can afford to get the Playstation because they can get the hardware cheap and can pirate games. I know a lot of people who have PSOnes. Sometimes I think I'm the only person without one. But all of them that I know have both legitimate and pirated/imported games. Because games are pirateable more people buy the system, and those who own the system are highly likely to buy a few legitimate games. However, because of piracy you will have a few people who would have and could have bought the game, but pirate instead. And of course if your system is pirateable there is the extra revenue you get by winning lawsuits against pirates.

    Then you look at an unpirateable system like the cube. Everyone who owns a cube paid for it. They paid for every game they own and every accesory for the system. So on every sale Nintendo makes profit. The only people who own a cube are people who want it and can afford it. Nobody else has one, so Nintendo's market share is low. But when a game comes out for the cube that is awesome, like wind waker, it is instantly a million seller. Everyone who has the system buys the game.

    So, piracy good and bad at the same time. Market share or profit margin? I don't see Nintendo going out of business any time soon, but I don't see sony going out either. But I do see XboX turning a loss despite higher market share in the US over the cube. Hmmmm.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:I think before by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think you'll find that the dreamcast was far more piratable; most DCs didn't need any mods what so ever to play a properly ripped game; burn to CD and off you go.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:I think before by Mantrid · · Score: 1

      Hehe, all you really need was some good burning software, which was of course, pirated! :)

    3. Re:I think before by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Disc juggler, as I recall.

      There was some nice stuff you could get in Europe, but not North America, such as Rez, Headhunter, Shenmue 2.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  7. I once saw one of those... by ronfar · · Score: 5, Funny
    I once saw one of those multi-cartridge Gameboy advance cartridges. I can't say where, of course, but rest assured I immediately reported the perpetrators to the BSA.

    I didn't notice any problem with the quality of the games, I guess extensive play will be required. <bsa-protection>What a pity I immediately destroyed the cartridge in disgust at the ripping off of the poor software giants and movie studio execs who had licensed their preciousss IP.</bsa-protection>

    However, if I had played it extensively, I'm sure I would have noticed some of the false advertising on the box compared to its contents. While the four gameboy advance games (Harry Potter/Mario Advance 2/Lord of the Rings/Shrek: Hassle in the Castle) I'm sure would've been as advertised, I noticed that Dig Dog (sic) was shown on the cover as having Doraemon characters in it, I guess due to Dig Dug's resemblance to an earless, robotic cat and Doraemon's relative popularity in SE Asia. There would've been some wierd games too like "King of Ghost."

    Yes, 115 games in all... but most of those were old gameboy games that I doubt would sell outside of Asia anyway... like two Majong games...

    <bsa-protection>Oh well, all hail BSA/MPAA/RIAA and their continuing war against copyright infringement. Their neverending quest to screw up every computer everywhere and crush legitimate reverse engineering projects like Bleem!, Gameboy Advance Flash Cartridges and Freecraft has inspired me to behave morally whenever I see anyone try to infringe their preciousss IP.</bsa-protection> Of course, some might say that in such a war, morality has become a gray area....

    --
    All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
    1. Re:I once saw one of those... by metallikop · · Score: 1
      Bleem!, Gameboy Advance Flash Cartridges and Freecraft

      Freecraft was shut down by Blizzard, not the BSA/MPAA/RIAA. Just an FYI.

  8. Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I never would've got into computers if it wasn't for piracy. I bought my C64 and later the Amiga because of the easy access to games on BBSs and personal trading with friends. I was a kid so I couldn't even afford to buy most of the games anyway (maybe one or two a year at best) so nobody was losing any money. Now that I'm older and have some cash I don't pirate my games, but still only buy one or two a year because most of the titles just aren't worth it. :-)

  9. Profit source by DrWho520 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One thing to remember in all of this is where these companies get their profits. Profit is not made on selling systems, but on selling and licensing games. The X-Box costs about $300-400 a pop to produce (don't quote me on that). MS loses money on each X-Box they sell. I do not know about Sony or Nintendo, but they may sell at or below cost as well. You have probably read the business philosophy, "Give away the razors, sell the hell out of the blades." They give away the consoles and sell the games. Nobody pirates the consoles, they pirate the games, and that's where the profit comes from.

    --
    The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    1. Re:Profit source by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      That's nice, but if it doesn't work without trampling Fair Use, then that business model needs to be re-examined. Copyright isn't a natural right, it is a bargain struck between the public and the authors and publishers.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    2. Re:Profit source by C_To · · Score: 1

      Problem is, for some of these system's, it can be easier just to rent a game for a week or two, finish it and return it, and rent another one. For the longest time I bought a SNES back in the day, without any games at all for $100cdn. I didn't buy any games for the longest time (must of been over 2 years), but rather rented games, due to the price. And yes, the cost of renting games after a while ended up more than the cost of buying games, but for a game that's easy to finish or that I got bored of easily, this was a more economical solution.

      The point is, that people can do that today. Buy an X-Box or PS2, and just rent games (depending on their frequency of free-time, how often they play games, etc). Yes the companies will lose money by selling the systems below cost, but this is a gamble they made when they set their price. I don't know how many people do this now with newer systems, but if it still happens, they are unaware of the fact that that both the game company and the system manufactuer are losing money because they decided to rent a game vs buying it.

  10. you stupid fuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just wanted to say that.

  11. Companies sometimes encourage piracy. by AtariAmarok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When the companies refuse to make available where there is a demand games which are available in other regions, this of course encourages piracy.

    This is very similar to the region system in DVD's, which does nothing but encourage piracy, DeCSS, and region-free hacks of players because the companies often never make certain material available in certain regions.

    In situations like this, the problem is not piracy: piracy is a symptom and result of the companies inexplicably refusing to take money for games (or movies) that the public wants to buy.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Companies sometimes encourage piracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't one extrapolate from your arguement that merely producing games encourages piracy? You are working with a logical fallacy here. They don't make the games for free, therefore they are at fault because there is a demand for free games?

      There is a huge market for illegally copied games in Russia according to the article. Publishers don't localize games into Russian because it is not profitable to do so. So are you saying the publisher is at fault because they don't make the game in Russian, when it would be impossible to sell that game in Russian because the market is saturated with illegal copies?

      You need to examine your post hoc ergo proctor hoc here. You seem to be in error after closer examination.

  12. Will M$ always lose money selling X-box? by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1

    "The X-Box costs about $300-400 a pop to produce (don't quote me on that). MS loses money on each X-Box they sell. "

    Will this always be the case? Typically, the same PC at the same speed, with the same hard disk becomes cheaper to produce as time goes on. Since an X is like a PC, if Microsoft is selling the same X-box that they started with, does this mean that they lose less and less money on each unit sold as the months go by, and eventually they will break even (unless they upgrade the platform?)

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Will M$ always lose money selling X-box? by Ian_Bailey · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is true. Console Manufacturers usually make a bit of a profit at the end of a console's lifespan, even though it is relatively cheap to buy at that point.

    2. Re:Will M$ always lose money selling X-box? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      The XBox uses a fixed set of components that are mostly obsolete for PCs, and many of the more common components are specially made for the XBox anyway (ie the P3 processor is not the same P3 you'll find in a laptop or desktop, the nVidia graphics chip is not the same graphics chip you can get on an AGP or PCI board for your computer, or in a laptop). The hard drive is smaller than the platters on many current hard drives, so the best they could probably do there to keep costs down is to format larger drives down to the size the XBox expects to have.

      Where they really reduce costs is by changing the fabrication process (and where they're assembled). Fewer circuit boards with less complexity can reduce costs significantly (and Sony did this recently, too, by combining the graphics processor and CPU into one chip, which could increase the cost of the chip slightly, but would reduce overall costs by making the system easier to produce). The cost of some of the individual chips MS is using might come down, especially if they're purchasing in high volume, but overall their costs are not going to come down nearly as quickly as what consumers see with PC parts, because PC parts are replaced with newer, faster parts (driving down the prices on the older, slower parts), and older parts are eventually obsoleted and no longer sold (try finding a 700-800 MHz P3 processor new in the box, you might find one, but it's cost is going to be pretty much fixed from now until 6 months from now, and is probably the same as it was 6 months ago).

      Of course, no one really knows how much MS is paying to build an XBox, because MS isn't releasing that information. However, even at release the most detailed estimates were not quite up in the $400 range, and they have made changes that would reduce costs, so I'd expect something more like $200-250 currently, if not less. It's possible that they make money on each XBox sold now, but unlikely. It's more likely that they make money when you factor in the number of games sold per console, but you have to remember that they are still trying to make up for the original production, as well as the costs incurred in setting up XBox Live.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    3. Re:Will M$ always lose money selling X-box? by unclethursday · · Score: 1
      I'd expect something more like $200-250 currently, if not less. It's possible that they make money on each XBox sold now, but unlikely. It's more likely that they make money when you factor in the number of games sold per console, but you have to remember that they are still trying to make up for the original production, as well as the costs incurred in setting up XBox Live.

      Considering Microsoft lost $190 million (on $493 million in sales) in calendar Q1 on the Xbox, I highly doubt they're making any money at all. And it's safe to assume with the losses that high, they're still losing US $100 or more per Xbox sold...and the software isn't helping make up the money like they thought it would.

  13. How much in North America/Europe? by Mantrid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder how many console games are actually copied in North America? Especially the "current generation" of consoles - I don't think I know anyone with pirated versions of X-Box, GC, or PS2 software.

    I think PC Piracy is a much bigger problem - I do know more than one person who will d/l software. And even large than that, is the borrowing/cracking of games between friends. I'm sure most purchased PC games make it onto more than one machine.

    1. Re:How much in North America/Europe? by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      In Europe, everybody and their mother have chpped their XBOX or PS2, and just buy games from people with the proper type of DVD burner for les than half price. Maybe it has to do with the insane videogame prices ($60-$65 in many cases).

      The main reason the GCN is not selling very well there is that GCN games cannot be copied easily

  14. No, not at all by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1

    "They don't make the games for free, therefore they are at fault because there is a demand for free games?"

    No, that wasn't it at all, Mr A.C. You missed my point. My point was that they often refuse to sell the games (or DVDs) *at all* in certain regions, which leaves piracy as the *only* method of getting the games.

    "Publishers don't localize games into Russian because it is not profitable to do so."

    How much overhead or cost to the company in letting the Russian distributors buy the games and distribute them in Russia? Very little.

    "So are you saying the publisher is at fault because they don't make the game in Russian, when it would be impossible to sell that game in Russian because the market is saturated with illegal copies?"

    No, in this instance the publisher would be remiss if they refused to sell legally the exact sort of games that are saturating the pirate market. If the pirates in Russia love the untranslated English games, then why aren't the publishers selling legal copies of these?

    Producing games but refusing to sell them to those who would like buy them does have an effect of encouraging piracy among those who are prevented from buying them.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  15. The standout quote on pg 3 by icemax · · Score: 1
    Definetly had to be this:
    The real question seems to be, "What benefits would consumers see if they stopped buying counterfeit games?"

    This is going to continue to be a problem untill consumers have a reason to stop doing it. If that means the industry dies, its unavoidable as far as I can see.
    Likewise, enforcement will never ever reach majority level, and even then won't stop the problem. Online games w/ a key-challenge kind of deal, where signifigant portions of the game logic rely on the game server would fix the problem, but what happens if the server goes down? And is this giving too much control to the game company? Methinks so.
    (scratches head) I dunno. There has to be a solution?
    --


    __________
    Love conquers all... except CANCER
  16. Piracy Vs. Success by lordfoul · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Gameboy / GBA - Piracy High - Success High
    Play Station - Piracy High - Success High
    N64 - Piracy low - Success Low
    Play Station 2 - Piracy High - Success High
    GameCube - Piracy none - Success Low

    That may not say Everything, But it sure says Something.

    1. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Nice and factual, thanks for clearing that up.

      I'm not sure it says anything

    2. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a neat little box you have there. Now try fitting this in there: Xbox - Piracy High - Success Low.

    3. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by lordfoul · · Score: 1

      The Xbox would be closer to a Moderate Success. Also I am not so sure the Piracy level is that high. It seems as though a large percentage of people are modding their Xboxs for non-gaming purposes. But even if that's not the true, I was really pointing out that Piracy may be helping to add to the success of many systems. Not That Piracy guarantees success.

    4. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, it says that people mostly pirate games for the most popular systems. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It's not as if rampant piracy somehow contributed to the success of the Gameboy, PS1, or PS2.

      And besides, I think you're a bit off on saying that the Gameboy has a high rate of piracy. Yeah, it is in the Asian/South American markets where you can buy bootleg carts. But in the states/Europe/Japan, most people don't buy bootlegs or have flash carts.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    5. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by matlokheed · · Score: 1

      How do you figure?

      Still hasn't been profitable.
      3rd in the world out of 3.
      Piracy is higher than PS2 as far as I've seen (because the modchips are more efficient and more beneficial, more people I know have modchips in their Xboxen than their PS2s).

      You pointed out more people pirated the systems where it was profitable to pirate them. Not that pirating makes something profitable.

      Now why would someone pirate the systems where it's worth their while?

      --

      "If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka

    6. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1

      It's called the "might as well" factor.

      Most people I know who have XBoxen use them as a media center. Mostly to hook up to their sound system to play MP3s, movies, and other things..although...

      While we do that, might as well use it to play burnt games. That's a secondary function.

      There's not just competition between games. There is competition between consoles to get those games. Piracy increases the installed base, which looks good to the bean-counters, there-go the lack of GC ports.

      In Nintendo's case, I think their business mdoel for the Game Cube revolves around a higher profit margin on lower system sales, so it works for them. Business wise.

      One suggestion. End the stupid region lock-out. They'll make much more profit if they do that overall. (To be honest, I can't think of a single reason to have a region lock-out at this point)

    7. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by DrWho520 · · Score: 1

      I don't think the success depends upon the piracy. I think the piracy depends upon the success. The more popular a system, the more people want to pirate it.

      --
      The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    8. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      One suggestion. End the stupid region lock-out. They'll make much more profit if they do that overall. (To be honest, I can't think of a single reason to have a region lock-out at this point)

      I pretty much agree with you, but the primary reason (and it is stated in the article iirc, or maybe that was another article) is that the games that use licensed content (which are a lot of them these days) often have to license the content from different companies in different regions (especially US and Asia, and especially with content that originated in Asia).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    9. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by August_zero · · Score: 0

      Actualy, N64 Piracy was rampant since the game size was a lot smaller (cartridges) it was easier to distribute them.

      And despite popular opinion, the N64 actually did quite well, outselling sony a couple of years in there somewhere (though overall they did not ever control the market, no argument there)

      And another thing, the Cube has sold as much as the x-box in the US, and far better in Japan.

      What exactly did you base your postulates on?

      --
      On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
    10. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by damiangerous · · Score: 1

      You know, it's considered dishonest to leave out information that doesn't support your theory when debating. You'd have a lot more credibility if you simply mentioned the Dreamcast's high piracy and low success while attributing that lack of success to the many other factors that contributed to it.

    11. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by Have+Blue · · Score: 1

      It's a correlation, you can't conclude any more than that. As my statistics prof was fond of pointing out, there is a very strong correlation between ice cream sales and the murder rate.

    12. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by wilddur · · Score: 1

      You may think that the expectation of cheap games has a big influence in the sells. Some people won't be able to buy more than two or three games. You are not going to buy a console for 2 or 3 games. Of course it also happends the opposite. More success more copyrigth infringment Just an hypothesis.

    13. Re:Piracy Vs. Success by Ondo · · Score: 1

      You left out the Dreamcast, which had high piracy and low success.

  17. dumbass, xbox is losing on purpose... by Recoil_42 · · Score: 1

    microsoft is trying to get a foothold in the market, and so are selling below cost. XBOXs are sold at near 100$US loss. they dont want to make a profit on XBOX, they want customer loyalty. THEN they plan to make XBOX 2 and dominate the market..

    --


    Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
  18. Next week on GameSpy(tm) by August_zero · · Score: 1

    Next week on GameSpy, we will look at how GameSpy has hurt gaming...

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  19. Lowering prices? by charlie763 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OK, so they can sell a number of games while there are many being pirated and still keep a profit (even if it's a little one)? Maybe it's time for them to realize that consumers are unwilling to pay these high prices and that they should lower prices to meet consumer demand. If they lowered prices it may reduce piracy and increase profits from their current state. Honestly, they are never going to be able to stop people from pirating games...people are just too smart.

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    Welcome to the land of the free...pay toll ahead...no photography...please open your bag...
  20. This isn't surprising at all. by readpunk · · Score: 1

    When you aren't rich and you want to play video games, what do you do? You get them for free if possible. Am I to feel terribly sorry for the people that are reaping in millions if not billions over losses do to piracy? Hiding behind legality is just a superficial way of avoiding the point. Rich people make money off video games and people with a lot of meaningless income buy them. If all piracy ended tomorrow the prices for video games would stay exactly the same. The software programmers are getting screwed by their bosses, or should I say "owners", not by pirates.

    --

    ./revolution
  21. SlashdotChase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Step #2. Post a reply to Surakrout's latest comment with subject "MOD PARENT DOWN" to get the instructions for message #3!

    /. Chase Manager