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Lexmark DMCA Case Winds On
The EFF filed a brief (brief, press release) in the ongoing case over Lexmark incorporating copyright-protected code in their printer cartridges in order to prevent competitors from producing compatible cartridges for their printers. The BBC notes some of the harmful effects of lack of competition in the industry.
...don't buy Lexmark printers? I mean, seriously, as long as Canon and HP et al aren't pulling these type of stunts, won't the market take care of this itself?
Do not read this sig.
"Colour HP Cartridge costs £29
This works out at £1.70 per millilitre
1985 Dom Perignon costs 23p per millilitre "
-"We will have 1 bottle of HP Blue 2003 please"
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
I used to work for a Printer supplies wholesaler and we had a supplier called MultiLaser that would Chip the Lexmark cartridges to be able to recycle them. Lexmark also had this prebate program where you would get a rebate if you agreed not to sell to recyclers.
Last time I checked there was no monopoly in the printer market. If Lexmark wants to keep it's design proprietary so be it. If Joe Consumer doesn't like it, buy another brand.
Well there is competition between printer manufacturers, and I imagine that if ink was priced at the cost of production tomorrow (considering perfect competition) then their printer prices would go up. Sure it's expensive, but look at the printers...you can buy a printer that would have cost $1000 ten years ago for $80 now. Anyway, since when has the law cared anything about competition? I mean, if it did, then the lawsuits against file sharers would be tossed out instantly. File sharing is the only other means of distribution for most of these songs...
You say that as if the lawmakers don't want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. Rich people = campaign contributions.
These people look deep into my soul and assign me a number based on the order I joined.
Remember Nintendo vs. Namco? Nintendo sued Namco for putting their copyrighted data sequence into their games so that they would work in the NES. Nintendo won the lawsuit, and this was years before the DMCA came out.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The height of absurdity to me is the infamous HP example. On more than one occasion, I've walked into a store and learned that replacing my HP printer altogether was cheaper than buying ink cartridge refills. Compare, $25 for a B&W cartridge + $35 for a color cartridge = $60 total. Cost of that HP DeskJet on sale at Office Depot? $50, and you get an entirely new printer!
No, this is completely wrong. Standards must be developed. Good, compatible knock-offs must be designed. While there is competition for printers themselves, there is no competition for the ink cartridges. Once a company ropes a customer into their printer, they'll milk them for all its worth.
They should be required to label these printers. Otherwise people will continue to buy them without realizing that they will never be able to buy a third party cartrige.
DeviantArt Page
NSFWThere are so many players in the inkjet printer space that they are sometimes shooting themselves in the foot by going with this model. No manufacturer can offer printers at cost now because nobody would pay $250 for an inkjet. But at the same time, they lose money like crazy on certain types of buyers. Business travelers often buy a cheap printer at their destination rather than pack one. Consumers often get a new printer with each new computer they buy because the added cost in negligible. There are so many used printers out there, that they often cannot be given away.
The industry itself would benifit from reform in this area. However, to make it happen, all manufacturers will have to charge more for printers and less for cartridges. If even one player sticks with the old model, that player will see all the gains.
I have avoided owning an inkjet because of the unreasonable consumables costs. I am glad that the EU will be investigating the cartel of printer manufacturers for illegal price fixing.
If I were to purchase an inkjet, which model can be easily and cheaply refilled, and carries a durable printhead?
I'd like to buy the ink by the liter, and I'd like the color match of the ink to be reasonably close to the OEM cartriges.
Also, wasn't Dell going to enter this market and cut the price of the consumables?
slightly off topic, but what the hell, I've got karma to burn.
I'd recommend against purchasing Epson inkjet printers. The last one we had, a 740i, had its jets clog up beyond repair. no matter how many times I'd run the cleaning function it wouldn't print, and even taking the think apart and trying to soak the print head in alcohol would help.
Apparently there's posts I found on some newsgroup that recommend at least cleaning/printing from that printer once a week or more...we would only use the printer occasionally.
So watch out and read those user reviews before you purchase a printer!
The Minolta Magicolor 2300 is a nice little color laser for $800ish and is one of the few to have built in Ethernet. Plus the toner won't break the bank. (HP makes good color laser printers but none come with built in networking and the color toner costs a lot).
My guess is that the average user is lazy, and would rather spend twice as much on the ink instead of being bothered to educate themselves.
Thank you very much. You just revealed the deep, dark secret of the Western Economy. All the work "they" have done to keep it secret and you went and blew the cover.
Most people are dumb, and want to stay dumb. If you make it easy for them to stay dumb, they will pay you money for it.
This has the benefit of making sure they never have enough money to move out of the middle class.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
It would seem that the market would *love* a printer that would use generic commodity ink. Make a few bucks on the printer and let the rest of the industry battle out the ink pricing.
A while ago, I modified an Epson to use large generic ink from a bottle (500mL each color). The printer dies before the ink ever ran out. Perhaps someone could manufacture a disposable printer? Just fill it with a crazy supply of ink and lock that bad boy up.
This $50/cartridge thing has to stop sooner or later. Some manufacturer will realize that consumers will *pay* for a quality piece that doesn't institute the Gillete sales model.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
All printer companies seem to use the same business model for consumer printers- sell the printer for practically nothing, and make the money on the cartridges.
Is it just me, or does it seem like there has to be some meeting of the minds among the manufacturers to keep it that way? I mean, why isn't there some rebel manufacturer making printers that cost 3 or 4 times as much, but take bulk ink/toner that would cost practically nothing?
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Just because the printer market is not monopolized does not mean that this is not unfair competition. Think about it.
The PRINTER market is not monopolized. However printers and printer INK are two different things. By denying other ink makers the right to compete at all, Lexmark is creating a situation in which only they can sell a product. They are creating a little ink monopoly. This is illegal.
Now, whether or not the courts will see it that way or not, who the hell knows?
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
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Watch out for full color pages or dark backgrounds.So many off-topic comments about inkjets. This case is all about TONER cartridges. Toner is used in laser printers--the kind at your office. Ink is used in inkjets--the kind that came with your Walmart PC. There are no chips in Lexmark's inkjet cartridges. What is at issue here are $200 toner cartridges for $3000 printers, not $40 inkjet cartridges for $40 printers. RTFA.
Personally, I reckon the cheap laser printers (hp laserjet 1000, samsung izzy etc) are the best option unless you absolutely have to have colour. The initial cost is about the same, the print quality is better and the cost per page is lower.
You can even pick up an old HP laserjet 4L of ebay for like £20. Give the paper rollers a clean and those things go on for ever.
That this would just make people buy those blasted ink-refill kits a lot more often than buying a generic cart...
What's next, prosecuting with the DMCA for sticking a needle into the cart.. "Circumvention"
Lexmark Exec: We need titanium casings
Manufacturer: No problem, anything else?
Lexmark Exec: How about special paper with DRM on it that the printer recognizes and only prints to?
Manufacturer: Done
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
I recently replaced an Epson 800 with a Canon i850, and have been very pleased with it. Unlike Epson et all, which use chips or drivers to tell you/guess where the ink level is, Canon printers (possibly uniquely? i don't know) actually have a prism in the bottom of each cartridge, and shine a light through this. depending on whether this is covered with ink or not, from the refraction changes it can deduce how much ink is in there. thus it's actially *looking*, which seems to be the right way to do things... Anyway, i bought a big pack of ink and when they run out i'll be squirting more in with a syringe.. i've done it on someone else's printer and they never complained so i guess it worked :)
This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.
If you're thinking of buying a new printer because it's cheaper than replacing your cartidges, consider this:
Forget for a moment what you're doing to the environment (just for a moment, then go sit in the corner and be ashamed of yourself for 5 minutes), those cartidges that come with that cheap printer are "starter" cartridges - even if you can't find the fine print where it says that. So if the ones that came with your printer lasted you 6 months, crack open your wallet and spend the $25-$75 for a new set of cartridges that will probably last you a year or two. It'll save you money in the long run, and you'll be putting a lot less plastic in a landfill somewhere.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
According to ThisIsLondon, Ink for home printers are 7 times more expensive than vintage champagne.
They also claim that ignoring low ink warnings can double the life of ink cartridges. I wish I could ignore the warnings, as my Lexmark printer forbids me to print once 75% of ink is gone!
Those greedy pigs!
/usr/bin/complain >
Dell's inkjets are just rebadged Lexmarks.
Actually, the HP DesignJet 5500 does track ink usage and will not let you print when the cartrige goes empty. It does this to prevent air from getting into the lines that feed ink to the print heads. If air gets into those lines you're in for an expensive repair. There are companies that sell ink refill kits, but it stops the printers ability to track ink usage (because the ink level becomes unknown) and the printer can't tell when the cartriges should be replaced. I'd recommend sticking with genuine HP supplies.
.:diatonic:.
Both HP and Lexmark cartridges are so expensive, in part, because the print head and some of it's intelligence is built into the cartridge.
You're asking an for an awful lot to include the disclaimer 'don't break the bank'. A good money-saving tip if you like ethernet are D-Link pocket print servers that change the printer's parallel port to an ethernet port. You simply telnet to the print server's IP address to configure it, so it's OS neutral. I was pricing printers for work and this solution was MUCH cheaper than printers with built-in ethernet.
From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
If I were to purchase an inkjet, which model can be easily and cheaply refilled, and carries a durable printhead?
Canon.
Canon was, AFAIK, the first inkjet company to have four seperate ink tanks and a seperate head. The prices are reasonable, the quality is good, and the consumeables are fairly priced. (A bit more per page than b&w laser, but still good.)
Computer & Communications Industry Association also filed an amicus brief in this case both at the district level and now at the appealate level arguing that this is the exact type of activity allowed under DMCA's exceptions and that SCC is not violating the DMCA. Press release can be found here.
You've just described the typical business lease of a decent (high quality / high capacity) printer.
I don't see anything wrong with Lexmark doing something like this to ensure the quality of their inkjet cartridges.
There's certainly nothing that prevents you or anyone else from marketing your own "refillable" link of inkjets. So do it!
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Excuse me if this is a stupid question. I couldn't find the answer anywhere...
How does Lexmark know that Static Control made its interoperable chip thru legal means? Static Control could have just cracked the chip open, stuck it under a microscope and ripped-off the entire design.
Obviously, a clean-room reverse engineer is legal. There is tons of precedent to that effect. Even the DMCA has exemptions for it.
Perhaps Lexmark has some reason to believe Static Control illegally copied their chip?
I used to recommend Canon for precisely the reasons you stated until I learned that Canon does not make its printer hardware interfaces available to developers of printer drivers for Free operating systems.
So?
My Canon Injet actually works better in Linux than it does in Windows.
Palm (AFAIK) doesn't OSS it's drivesr, but it still works with Free OSes.
And he has to drink lots of Guinness in order to get true black print.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I've owned two HP inkjets (DJ500 and one of their "Professional Series" units that did a lot of the processing on the computer CPU) and most recently I've been using a Canon BJC-6000. The HP units had the print head in the cartridges, the Canon does not. Guess which ones clogged up consistently? Yup, you guessed it -- HP. Both of 'em. The Canon hasn't given one iota of trouble, and we only print occasionally. Change the individual ink cartridges when necessary, clean the print head if you must (it comes out). Very well designed.
Canon fixed the "if the print head gets clogged you're screwed" problem by making that a replacable item as well. You can buy a new one for not too much money with a new set of individual ink cartridges. It's a great system and I've not been disappointed in any way. In fact, I just ordered a new i950 for photo printing due to this experience.
I don't even look at HP printers any longer. Oh, and I agree with another person who wrote that the Epson 740 was junk; my dad's clogged up like no ones business and basically couldn't be fixed. No more Epson printers either, methinks.
- Leo
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
I wouldn't buy a Lexmark printer, but I wouldn't buy one before this lawsuit either because when I hear the name Lexmark I think of cheaply made crap that'll fall apart in six months. My Panasonic printer is close to ten years old and although I never use it, I know I still could. I can even get new ribbons for the damn thing at Wal-Mart.
How many Lexmark inkjet printers will be around in a decade? How many ink cartridges could you go through in that time?
All inkjet printers seem to have the same problems with the price of brand name cardtridges. That is also why there are so many companies making refillables that can "solve" the issue. The problem is the cost of toner cartridges in laser printers. I know roughly how much they go for, and it is expensive. My company has literally thousands of the Optra T series, and folks, it is a good printer for the money. Even with the expense of toner, it is still just as good or better than pricing on comparable HP printers. The lexmark will run you about $3000 for the decked out Optra T, the comparable HP will be around $10,000. Forget about the disposable printer argument and look at the real picture here. The cartridges from Lexmark are about 1/3 more expensive than the remanufactured ones. However, the quality of remanufactured cartridges is not supposed to be as good as the Lexmark cartridges. I have seen both and it does seem that the Lexmark ones are a little better. The whole point is that if you want to buy a office printer and not a home printer, do your research and try a few different ones before making the selection. Otherwise, buy a cheap on sale printer when you need a refill. speaking of which, I need to find cheap cartridges for my HP G48xi...
root 10956 5164 0 Oct 22 - 0:23 sendmail: rejecting connections: load average: 70 (isn't sendmail just too kind)
Again, forget about the environment (I think you already did), but you may want to weigh those cartridges that came with your printer and then weigh a retail cartridge. Using a 'warehouse' site's specs and prices, the cheapest Lexmark Inkjet comes with a color cartridge with a duty cycle of 205 pages. The retail cartridge for that printer has a duty cycle of 275 pages. Let's just assume they aren't playing with the figures and use the mail order price of 32.95 for the cartridge. That puts a color page at about $0.12 each for the ink. Which puts the value of the cartridge that comes with the printer at $24.60. So they've screwed you for $8.35 on that included cartridge that is the "exact same type" as the replacement cartridge, which, by the way is enough to make it cheaper to buy replacement cartridges.
Now assuming you mail ordered it, think about shipping charges. How much more do you think it'll cost to ship a printer and cartridges instead of just the cartridges? Add it all up, and you're paying about double for your ink.
Now let's talk about the true costs of your disposable printer. How much oil do you think it takes to power the machinery to make that printer? Fuel the ships, planes and trucks to deliver it? Process the trees into packaging and paper? Burn the CD with the drivers and instructions? How long do you think the plastic components will take to decompose? What about the fumes from the manufacturing process?
Now sure, you'll get a nice shiny new printer that may outlast the perfectly good one you threw out with the garbage (I hope you covered it up with some regular trash so you don't get in trouble for trying to put electronics out with your household waste). But even if your old printer doesn't outlive the new cartridges you bought, you can always swap them into the new printer that you buy because you have to, not because you've been suckered into paying double for your ink just to get a free printer you didn't need. And in the extra 6 months to 3 years that you get out of your printer, prices will drop, specs will improve, and the REAL money you saved will more than pay for a better printer. And maybe by then the energy it took to make it won't be paid for in lives.
2 SUV's, 0 Kids?
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast