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Xbox Linux Made Possible Without a Modchip
An anonymous reader writes "Free-X have released an exploit for the Xbox that will let you get Linux on the machine without any hardware mods at all... Microsoft is already threatening them with legal action. Here's the Free-X statement. Free-X say they had been trying to contact MS for a month but were ignored, which is why they've released the exploit. Should be interesting to watch this one."
Too late for Microsoft. It's been released. No way of stopping it. Just like Nintendo had no way of stopping UltraHLE.
Go here for teh [sic] funny.
Free-X say they had been trying to contact MS for a month but were ignored, which is why they've released the exploit.
MS before: Screw them, we haven't got time to deal with annoying flies on the wall like that.
MS after: Shut up! Sue them! This kind of thing is why we hate open source. They want to take our intellectual property and turn it into an experimental plaything.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
...did they really think Microsoft would give in to their "demands" AND legitimize X-Box hacking at the same time? Give me a break. Why would it make sense for Microsoft to encourage Linux installs on a product solely meant to play games and movies, when it doesn't even port it's cash cow software for the real desktop OS? I hate to make this comparison (because of the can of worms it's sure to open), but it's like terrorists who try to bargain hostages for freeing their buddies. You CAN'T bargain with them, because it simply encourages others to follow in their path.
Congrats to the guys for the hard hacking work, but get a little business sense and in the meantime, better get a lawyer. This ain't gonna make the boyz in Redmond none too happy.
Chris
Looks like it's open season on the Xbox now, but I'm a bit confused. The ZDnet article mentions the $100,000 no hardware mod prize, yet right in the exploit description it states:
Q1: How do I get the files onto the harddisk?
A1: There are several ways. You could f.e. install the files with the Mechassault or 007 hacks. This requires one of the games and the files on a memorycard. The other way is to open the box and do the harddisk swap trick which is described all over the net.
So if you need to use an existing hack to do this, and those hacks didn't qualify for the prize, how could this one? Any Xbox experts care to comment?
Additionally, isn't it nice to see that companies are now suing on a regular basis for exploit publication. Good that they only want black hats posessing this sort of information.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
our team has been accused of attempting to extort or blackmail Microsoft
From the article, seems that is exactly what they tried to do:
For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following:
- Complete access to all documentation (chipsets, video etc.) to assist in developing a better Linux for the XBox.
- A signed Linux loader.
- Protection from Microsoft or support if any organisation/government attempted to prosecute members of our team.
- Refunding of the cost occured during the agreement period.
Not demanding? Why would Microsoft politely offer any of those things?
Hopefully with the release of this exploit Microsoft will stop ignoring the homebrew community. The way I see it they knew about this before it happened and they should have taken the actions to communicate with the hackers and try to settle this. Now that they refused to negotiate people can freely pirate games causing not only Microsoft to lose money, but also the game developers. If they had negotiated only linux would be running on the xbox. :) Too bad for them. Maybe they will learn to listen to us ... maybe not.
How is releasing information about a bug going to land them in court? Microsoft had plenty of time to respond, but they didn't.
I think you mean Austrians?
It's too bad they probably won't get the 100k. In order to get the files onto the xbox, you need to use a prior exploit that DOES require something(007 save, swapping HDD etc).
I want you to assume that all spelling and grammar errors are intentional. Thank You.
I think you meant http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/vulnwatch/2 003-q3/0008.html (ie without the extraneous space) but yeah, given that they're 100% identical to each other, including the name of the author, i'm guessing that they just _might_ be the same exploit.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
> How is releasing information about a bug going to land them in court? Microsoft had plenty of time to respond, but they didn't.
You can sue over basically anything. They could bring them to court simply to say they thought their assertion of demands/requests resembled black mail. They have the weight/money/political connections to bring a very trivial detail into the court room.
You should never challenge a powerful company like this. Have a lawyer draft up all communications, keep complete records of all activies and communications within the group, and do not volunteer any information without council present.
Having help doesn't make you look guilty, it makes you look prepared and intellegent. The way these guys handled their communications (spelling errors and all) makes them look like out of control destructive teenagers.
Rob
This is was a huge mistake. These people have just poked what will turn out to be a very violent and angry grizzly bear. It is well known that Microsoft loses money on each Xbox sold. Microsoft sells Xboxes at a LOSS(!) in the hopes of getting you into the additional content and features like Live. Why in the world would they want people to buy an Xbox, only to install Linux on it and never again be able to play another Xbox game on it???
People who buy Xboxes to install Linux do not buy more Xbox games!!!
This is a Bad Thing because it is only a matter of time before someone starts using this approach to hack Xbox Live. These Assholes were treated way too kindly in the Penny Arcade Comic. All I can say is I loathe these guys the same way I loathe the bored programmers that ruined Quake 1, Quake 2 and Counterstrike. The actions these zealots have taken will inevitably lead to cheating on Xbox Live, which is a real shame. To me, part of the point of paying for Xbox Live is so that I don't have to deal with the same fecal coated cheaters online- if you're caught, you're banz0red. Why is it that some people can't just rub there 2 486s together and be frigging happy w/ their beowulf cluster?
This is a terrible day for gamers.
The only reason Microsoft has to care about putting another operating system on x-box is because they are dumping them.
Dumping things undervalue as a monopoly is unethical and illegal in many places. I'd like to see that in some news stories, instead of no explanation why microsoft would care at all what someone did with their own bought hardware.
The chief reason for the success of GNU, Linux and indeed saome flavors of BSD, is that the hardware is a commodity item and available from multiple vendors. Thus the hardware is an open platform and true competition drives down prices to make it affordable, viable and immune to monopolization.
Now, the XBox is a proprietary piece of shit, and is controlled by a single gorilla (of course, with contributions from a few chimps). What's the motivation of getting GNU and Linux running on this proprietary junk?
MS loses money since they make losses on hardware? Crap! Unless the XBox is sold for under $50, this assumption is ridiculous. Geeks get a sense of revenge when they try to annoy MS? Sorry - MS is too smart for that. If they felt XBox hacks were truly threatening their margins, they'd have let loose SCO or some other SCUD litigation.
Doing geeky things is not the primary or only objective of the GNU connosieurs - the more important reason is to make the software AND the hardware free of encumbrances and/or lock-ins.
The best hacks for the XBox will become meaningless if MS comes out with a new design. The devious statements and logic emanating from the press about the XBox and the hacks - does in fact indicate that some kind of social engg. is at work.
It's like all the brouhaha about the latest Harry Potter - how it's getting stolen, how many millions have sold in the first week, how some cheap folks are trying to obtain illegal copies, etc. It's promoting by making an appeal to criminal insticts.
Cracking an XBox to run Linux is like using a 500MB word-processor to write a 1 page letter. Waste of resources and effort, it profits only MS. Better contribute to some useful GNU projects, such as AbiWord - there's many of them out there that need attention.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
game over
Oh no, owners of existing X-Boxes and games will use this to boot linux after Microsoft et al have already profited from them. Some people might start using X-Boxes for non-game-playing purposes, and more than 100,000 people will want to use their X-Boxes (and buy more X-Boxes) exclusively for this because hacked sub-PCs are the platform of choice for stability and reliability. Some authors will even make unauthorized games for the X-Box which will sell like hotcakes because the authors are so good that real game companies refuse to hire them for fear of them taking over.
And there is no possible way for Microsoft to fix this issue in future releases of its hardware or games or its online feature.
This is a great loss to Microsoft and will undoubtedly drive them out of business altogether.
</sarcasm>
Get over yourself.
-M5B
> A signed Linux loader.
I don't want to encourage the glee of watching 'cock fights', as I don't think its right, but this is shaping up to be watching King George complain about the colonists protesting the tea tax, because it "isn't fair", boohoo.
As a monopoly convicted in court, requiring access to other operating systems on the hardware it is selling -at below market prices- is absolutely a must.
I hope the right people make an issue of this, because this very well may blow up in Microsoft's
face.
Yeah, now it looks like they were just blackmailing Microsoft. :)
KFG
Getting 007 from blockbuster is a lot cheaper than a mod chip tho.
its a sad day for the linux community. this whole affair is the begining of the end for linux. once you resort to tactics that are exactly what you accuse and vilafy microsoft for using, you lose. this whole "hack the xbox" affair is nothing but a dream come true for microsoft. way to go guys! you made microsoft the victim : )
"You should never challenge a powerful company like this."
Nope. I gotta disagree with that.
I for one do NOT believe "powerful" aka rich companies shoudn't be challenged. Having money should not mean carte-blanch authority to steamroll customers over trivialities and the greater business community should be wary of any organisation that grows unchecked. It may be difficult (especially if the court is swayed by financial contributions) but powerful companies should ALWAYS be challenged.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
There's other linux distributions that are runnable on the PS2, but honestly, why not just buy the kit? It's reasonably priced, and you won't be able to install GNU/Linux on your PS2 without the hard drive, anyway. Also, you're supporting a company that decided to open up their system somewhat.
Who cares about the DMCA. Most of the six billion world population lives outside the USA.
The DMCA? Last time I checked American law wasn't a global thing.
It's one thing to phone up MS and say 'I've found out something you might like to know about and keep secret', and another to phone up and say 'I've got some information you might like to know about and keep secret - and I'd like you to pay me money, indemnify me against legal consequences, and give me a job - or I'll release it to the public'.
The fact that when they were ignored, they carried out the implicit threat of releasing the information (implicit in their suggestion that they'd sign an NDA in exchange for money), makes it look like blackmail to me.
It's the demand for personal gain that makes the threat of disclosure into blackmail.
Okay, so you can install Linux on an xbox, what about Windows XP?? Could you install a regular version of xp or 2000 with this exploit?
I love linux as much as the next guy, but tell me -- does this hack mean that I can only install linux on the thing, or can I install any OS I want? I think that for MS, it'd be more embarrassing that you need to hack the machine to get an installation of Windows 9X/XP up and running. :)
What copyright material is this protecting access to? If I want to run code which I have written, I own the copyright on it, so what copyright is being protected if I circumvent the sign checker and run the code?
It's very simple... According to the DMCA, you point at something and call it "copyright protection", and if anybody does anything to it, you sue them to holy hell.
Quite simple really.
For instance, if I was to make a CD that doesn't play, I will call it copy protected, meaning it works (because I say so) and you don't get your money back. Then, when someone figures out how to make it work, I sue them into submission.
It has other purposes as well. For instance, it can be very useful in extorting money, and bending people to your will.
You see, what you do is invent a copy protection scheme (we'll call it CSSS) and make it standard on some multimedia format (that we'll call DVDDs). Unfortunately, no copy protected device has ever gotten popular, so to make sure yours gets popular, you make CSSS so crappy that a 5-year old could break it. Now, your DVDD format will get popular, because people can all copy the DVDD discs.
Then, when anyone want's to make a DVDD player, they can't, unless they get permission to use CSSS from you. Before you allow them to use CSSS, you simply require a huge ammount of money, and force them to sign a contract saying they will do everything you tell them to, and include nothing extra on their CSSS players that you don't like.
Now, you are raking in the money, and you control the entire DVDDs player market, because the DMCA doesn't allow anyone to get around your crappy CSSS without your permission.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Um, maybe i'm misunderstanding, but doesn't the 007 trick let you run an ftp server on the box? And the current hack involves adding & adjusting some files on the HD (such as with the ftp server) which then allows you to load whatever. So, after the first use of the 007 ftp trick, you have a totally modded system....or am i missing something.
Like this comment says...
-Ted
-=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
If Microsoft Entertainment was a seperate company, they would probably be encouraging Linux on the XBox to increase the flexibility of their product and drive up sales - it's working for Sony, SCEE are even hiring staff to help with development of Linux for PS2!
However because they are tied to a company with no interest in seeing Linux get anywhere, they are forced to take every possible anticompetative measure to stop it suceeding.
It's the same with other MS products - the don't produce phone or PDA sync software for Linux... why exactly? Wouldn't it be nice to have access to those extra customers? Oh... but I forget... then they might not need to buy Windows. How about office? If it had been split off at the time of the antitrust trial, and given the level of interest of corps in the Linux desktop, don't you think that there would have been a Office-for-Linux by now? But then you might be able to avoid buying Windows desktops and Windows servers...
They leverage it the other way too, making it easier to use MS products on Windows than anything else - look at the level of integration they have with Outlook. I talked to a guy from Sharp about their Outlook connector for the Zaurus and they said they had a hell of a time getting it to work because Microsoft wouldn't release the lower level APIs to the developer of a Linux PDA.
It's hard to believe that a whole company could be evil, but MS seem to be trying hard.
Beep beep.
No, and you risk having questionable files (read: child pornography) being stored and shared on your PC without your permission
You are assuming:
1. Your hardware will work and/or be supported in it's present form, indefinitely by Microsoft.
Since I have not made any hardware modifications to my xbox, my warranty is intact. When that runs out, I run the same risks of non-support that I would if I used the xbox only as a console.
I am not insane; I don't expect indefinite support. Chances are good that when this hardware wears out, I will be happy to simply junk it.
2.You'd rather wait for these and better hacks to run Linux, rather than spend $200 for a Walmrt Linux box with warranty.
In my own situation, I have no real need for a Linux box. I have this xbox. Running linux on it is of equal if not better entertainment value to playing games on it.
3. A large number of people get these XBoxes as a gift.
To repeat myself, I am speaking only of my own situation. I don't have any answers for other people.
As Microsoft says often, think 3 years down. XBox may be cheap to acquire, but who supports the Linux?
In my own situation, linux is "supported" by thousands, across the globe, who publish their support. I have little need for immediate support. The little need I have has been met to date by informal IRC conversations.
Again, I have no answers for others. I would not recommend to a corporate entity that they run a mission-critical web server on an xbox!
Why should GNU coders take interest in a proprietary plaform controlled by the gorilla they love to hate?
The fact is, they do. As long as they do, I am grateful.
- copy and paste the whole thing begining with:
..and ending with:
- execute uudecode like such:
- And to wrap it all up execute tar in the same directory.
There you go. As easy as 1,2,3."begin-base64 644 dayX.tgz..."
"===="
into emacs(or whatever your prefered editor is(so long as it doesn't insert it's own formatting)) and save it as something like xbox.64
$uudecode
$tar xzvf dayX.tgz
Say hi to Bert and Ernie for me.
-Steve
Um, maybe i'm misunderstanding, but doesn't the 007 trick let you run an ftp server on the box? And the current hack involves adding & adjusting some files on the HD (such as with the ftp server) which then allows you to load whatever. So, after the first use of the 007 ftp trick, you have a totally modded system....or am i missing something.
When you use the 007 hack trick, it allows you to boot linux 1 time, then everytime you want to reboot you have to re-use the 007 trick. But it looks like this setup allows you to do either the 007 trick or HD hack trick to put these font files on the system, and once the font files are put into the specific directory, they will auto-execute the default.xbe file (which normally doesn't exist) from the root directory. I'm not positive about this, but I think that without the font files being replaced, you wont be able to execute the default.xbe file, only the xboxdash.xbe (which is also located in the root directory on the C drive).
If you replace a few words and change the subject to September 11th, this is what you get:
In June of 2000, you could make attempts to contact the president of the USA and tell him you have information about a possible terrorist attack on American soil...in exchange for that information you would want to be a part of the national security and obtain the secrets to how they operate.
He would have ignored you just like Microsoft ignored them. You don't just walk up the front door and ring the bell with these large companies.
Anyone arguing that allowing Linux on an XBox is going to sell more Xboxen is clearly deluded. The only reason people want to put Linux on an XBox (or any other device that is not sold for such purposes) is for reasons of pure hacker fun (weee, look! linux on xbox! take that m$) and also because we all feel we're poking billg in the eye at the same time. Admit it. I do.
- Oisin
PGP KeyId: 0x08D63965
It's not blackmail, although MS have painted as such and quite a few people have failed to actually think about it. These guys told MS that they were going to run Linux on their Xbox and it would be easier for everyone, including MS, if they simply had a normal Xbox signed binary. But, they knew they didn't need it if MS didn't want to help.
In other words: We're going to do this the easy way or the hard way, but we ARE going to do it.
MS, no one else, picked the hard way. They had nothing to lose by going the easy way and the fact that they now have a compromised Xbox situation is entirely their own fault.
After all, when MS tells people that they will sue them for running their own software on their own hardware, who exactly is doing the blackmailing? And that question is exactly what open source is all about.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I took that line slightly out of context - "like this" probably refers to the manner of the challenge, rather than companies like MS, but the point was made.
I hesitate to get started, but if sacrifices aren't made (like these guys getting toasted in court) then corporations and by extension, the governments they pay for, WILL walk all over the people. I hope the X-mod guys don't get fubared over extortion-type claims, but if they do, I think there will still be a greater benefit from pushing the point of "consumer" rights to use things they payed for - eg, an X-Box.
One thing I think they forget, is that away from work and outside their industry, they too are "consumers".
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Reporting bugs to the public is a good thing. As a Windows user I more than appreciate every bug report that was made possible by a little reverse engineering.
And yes that knowledge the group created from their effort is theirs. Where there are problems is in the way in which the group handled this. They interpreted Microsoft's decision not to entertain them further as a greenlight or disinterest. This was a stupid mistake. They asked for personal rewards for having this information and sharing it with Microsoft. Their indication was that if Microsoft responded in a timely matter, the group would not release the exploit to the public, but would instead keep it under wraps in proviso Microsoft sponsored the development of a Linux product. This is the blackmail aspect. Had Microsoft complied, the group would not be releasing the exploit. We as the consumer or game developer would be ignorant to this horrible security flaw that could enable software piracy - as they put it.
I really wish these kids spoke with an attorney first and gotten advice from some of the more credible members of the Linux community. What they've done is cool and certainly valuable, but it may prove personally devastating.
Right now, I'm really hoping that either I'm wrong or that Microsoft has developed a sense of humor about these things.
That doesn't mean it's the best beer.
Correct. Probably more people program in Visual Basic than Java, Perl and Php combined.
That doesn't mean VB is the best programming language, either...
Reminds me strongly of the way typical bug-in-your-code exchanges go with companies:
"There's a flaw in your code."
"There's no flaw in our code."
"I'm telling people there's a flaw in your code."
"Alright, there is a flaw, but we're not fixing it."
"I'm telling people how to exploit this flaw in your code."
"Ok! Ok, we'll fix the bug."
These guys have been telling Microsoft that they can run Linux on an Xbox without a mod chip for months. Microsoft has ignored their warnings about the "flaw" in their "code," so we've now arrived at "I'm telling people how to exploit it." Unfortunately, because the majority of people on capital hill are mildly retarded and/or (emphasis on the "and") corporate bitches, Microsoft will NOT be forced to fix the error, but will simply sue the people who publicize the flaw because it involves encryption.
For those to whom it is NOT already patently obvious, THIS is the danger of the DMCA: Companies that provide defective products involving encryption are NOT forced to repair the error or lose business, they now have the option of silencing the white-hats who try to warn them, and trying to ignore the hordes of black-hats who are now working to duplicate the exploit.
Naturally, when involving open-source software, the DMCA becomes irrelevant, because anyone can see and fix the code: We do not have to wait in the hallowed corporate halls waiting for a magic trinket, and that is what they (in reference to greedy CEO's and their ilk, for whom the pursuit of money has become a late-stage cancer) fear.
Ok, I am done rambling. You may now resume your regularly scheduled indoctrination.
the DMCA has no teeth in Austria where these guys seem to live
The european version of the DMCA, the EUCD came into force in Austria on July 1st. (I even think the directive could be used against them before that, though it hasn't been transcribed into austrian law). The mailing list message was sent on July 4th. (quite symbolically...)
On the other hand, the picture's pretty murky anyway. The EUCD doesn't change the status for computer programs, and that's what we're really talking about here. It's also important that this exploit has several effects. It may be used for playing pirated games, (nono) but it is also a tool for using the X-box for quite legitimate purposes, like building a home media system etc. Also, the exploit is not done on the programs themselves, but on the platform. Then there is the issue of changing the font files. I don't quite get whether they used changed MS font files or rolled their own. If they use changed MS files, MS might be able to go after them on their "artistic rights".
I recommend finding an austrian lawyer. (And a sympathetic judge...)
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
Read ALL of the words in their demands. They asked to be kept indemnified in case of legal proceedings against them - that's a big deal in itself. They asked for Microsoft to pay them money. They asked for jobs, for crying out loud.
Yes, they asked for MS to acknowledge open use of the XBox platform, too, but that was only one of their demands.
It's little different to approaching Coca Cola saying you've found out their secret recipe, and you've worked out how to make it taste better (although you had to operate an unlicensed particle accellerator to do some of your technical analysis, so the government might not be too happy with you). At this point, you ask for reimbursement of your expenses, indemnification against the potential government prosecution, and a job on their food science team helping them improve their recipe. Or you'll blow the whole gaff and go public with the secret recipe - and the trick for making it better...
The thing is, in that situation, you could get what you want, but you won't get it by threatening them.
A Xerox machine _could_ be used to violate copyrights too... Does that make it illegal now under DMCA?
Why is it that when some non-corporate entities have the audacity to ask for a finder's fee from a business, it's blackmail? And when a company threatens to litigate unless the peons pipe down and do as they're told, it's just protecting your business interest?
Could you bend over a little more please? Your head isn't as far past your ankles as I would like it to be. Shhheessh!
We just broke into OUR OWN house that we bought from you, and found that your lock is very easy to pick. We can help you to improve the lock....
Local Fosters; it's shite. VB is likewise shite, however; most of the people I know drink either Boags or Cascade
Never mind the brand. Most of the industrial stuff tastes the same anyway. Real issue is how to effectively order a beer in a crowded bar:
South Australia: A heawy scooner please will cause the bartender to serve you half a liter of West End Super. This however does not work in the rest of Australia where you have to order by Pot (Qld and Vic) or Middie (WA and NSW).
Germany: Ein pils bitte will, after a tapping delay of approximately 5 minutes, get you a local brew from the tab. Due to the latency it is recommended to pipeline the process: Order the next beer when the current beer is delivered. This will guarantee you a new beer every 5 minutes.
Sweden: En stor stark (a large strong) will give you half a liter of 5% beer. For heavy drinking tax-free party ships to Tallin, Gdansk or Oslo are recommended.
Soviet Union Beer was usually out of stock. Vodka or spirt (99% Ethanol) could be bought from the nearest taxi driver. Also good as a substitute for windshield liquid which was also hard to get hold of. In current times I recomment Nevskoe for the St. Petersburg area, although Baltika is usually easier to get hold of.
For better taste you should try Budweiser Budvar from the Czech Republic (Don't confuse this with the cheap US copy of the same name)
American patent laws are one of the first things "Free Trade" agreement countries are suppose to adhere to (ironic considering it is so obviously a broken system and coopted legislation at it's worst). I'm sure clauses about laws like the DMCA will be in future agreements).
>The ability to completely hiijack a competitors hardware technology.
Funny, I don't recall leasing an XBox from Microsoft. When I put that money down, as far as I'm aware, I bought it. It became my property.
I wonder, what goods or services am I stealing from Microsoft by running lunix on my XBox?
Their attitude seems to be that after you buy an XBox, you owe them more money in games sales.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
You only leased that XBox. It still belongs to us, in principle, if not (yet) legally in fact because we chose to sell it at a loss. You're not allowed to do anything to it that we don't want you to, nor to tell anyone how to do anything to such things. Ever. Running Linux on it is stealing from us. You owe us more money in games sales, you thief.
Next week: Gilette to sue people who buy one of their razors and then figure out or tell anyone how to remove and resharpen the blades rather than buying more.
Next month: Coca Cola Enterprises Ltd to sue people who buy a bottle of Dr Pepper, drink it, then use it to fetch water from the office water cooler. Damn, that's me busted.
Let's face it, we're only valued customers as long as we're meeting our implicit obligation to continue consuming. The instant we try and (ab/re)use a product without paying more money to the manufacturer, we bcome heartless thieves, possibly communists, maybe even terrorists.
Linux user, why do you hate America so much?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
This is not a step forward for the Linux community. It is an embarassing set back that could further strengthen arguments against using Linux and supporting the Linux community. It's just damn irresponsible of them.
Indeed. But let's not miss the irony of Microsoft complaining about what they perceive as an attempt to blackmail them, when it's a matter of record that Microsoft has regularly used similar tactics or worse in carrying out their own business. Three words: "knife the baby".
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Clearly Microsoft decided that the price was too high -- after all, they've got to pay that building full of lawyers whether they're actually suing people or not so why not just resort to legal action instead?
:-)
Not quite right. Microsoft decided that the opportunity to paint the Linux community as a bunch of blackmailers was what they really wanted. They adopted a course designed to get the Free X team to make themselves look as bad as possible, however, to Free X team's, I do not think they took the bait to the extent Microsoft hoped.
Like all of Microsoft's attempts to beat Linux in the court of public opinion, this one will also backfire, and just result in more widespread adoption of Linux.
The Free X team may not fare as well, it's hard to say. If Microsoft attempts to press their claims of blackmail, it's hard to see how they will be successful, given that you can characterize their own business practices as the same or worse. Essentially, they'd have to argue that their own business practices are illegal (which of course they are, as has been established, but that's not something Microsoft wants to draw attention to).
As well, Microsoft could be forced to argue that running Linux on the X-Box is illegal. That would most likely backfire horribly. They wouldn't like it at all if they ended up being compelled by the courts to support Linux on all their hardware. Not just allow it, but actively support it.
In the latter case, I suppose Microsoft could always accuse the judge of blackmail, but I doubt that argument would get very far
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
> The DMCA? Last time I checked American law wasn't > a global thing.
You might want to check with Iraq and Afghanistan on that.
If current copyright and IP laws and the interretation thereof were in affect in the mid - 80's what could we expect?
1. PC's would still cost thousands of dollars
2. The only companies to produce BIOS codes would be IBM, and people that paid IBM royalties
3. The Internet would only be available to people in colleges and government - and the content would be heavily censored
4. The only PC manufacture would be IBM and all others would be "illegal copies".
5. All operating systems that ran on PC's would have to be liscenced from Microsoft
6. 20" Rims would have to be liscenced from GM as the own the IP for "the oversized sport tire package"
7. Performance exhaust systems are a Ford product exclusively.
8. CD-R's would have been outlawed and require a liscence to buy or own
9. There would only be 1 word processing program
10."Reverse Engineering" would be a legal term used at your prosecution.
You think it's crazy? Saying that you can buy a game/toy and are not allowed to open it up under penalty of jail - THAT is crazy. Why doesn't MS tell the truth, you didn't BUY anything except the right to use your toy. In actuality, according to their liscence (or my interpretation) that box that you plunked down 200 bucks for isn't even yours. Get used to it, unless there is a revolt, it is the way of the future. You will own nothing - but you will be allowed to use things, provided you pay enough $$$.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Say I don't like WinXP on my Dell. I remove it, repartition and install linux. I can do that because I OWN the box. I'm entitled to do whatever I want with it.
Now look at the Xbox. The Xbox is a system much like a Dell with windows, the only difference is you can't easily uninstall/repartition... until now. Why is this illegal? I bought my Xbox. I OWN every part of that machine. No where does it say "Property of Microsoft" on my Xbox. Can't I do whatever I want with it? Can't Free-X release any software they want for it, much like 3rd parties can release software of their own? .02
Software piracy? Exploit? Could they have protrayed themselves in a worse light? They also promised to sign NDAs and happily screw everyone else and work exclusively for M$ like good little boys and girls should. Sounds like standard BSA propaganda to me and the wave of corporate sponsored, Digital Rights Damaged, coppies of free software bode evil for software freedom.
Free software is not about making binary coppies of a few games, it's about having control of your hardware and building things. An xbox with a "signed" Linux kernel that can't be programed or modified offers neither liberty nor the license FreeX offers as a substitute. That kind of box is worth no more than XP on a Next Generation Enslaved PC, except it might have better uptime.
It would not be at all surprising to learn that Microsoft is paying FreeX to make this noise. If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, chances are it's a duck.
Who knows, perhaps this is the way for M$ to meet the Linux threat while further expanding into hardware sales. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is their tried and true pattern. They can call it Shared Linux, port M$ Office to it and push it on big dumb companies as the legitimate child of the free software movement. $100/box is 1/4 the price of a current corporate desktop and they will be just in time for the next corporate "upgrade" cycle. If it caught on, Dell and Gateway would indeed be introuble, because they have to buy their software from M$. Then they move in for the kill by using the DMCA to neuter the GPL. Distributing partial source kernels in a way that nothing can be modified even if you had the source is a massive violation of the spirit of the GPL if not it's letter. What use is source code if you go to jail for modifying it?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, purchasing the xbox only helps M$. If you want a gaming console, buy one with merrit. If you want a PC build one. One way you get better games, the other way you keep your computing freedom. Purchasing the xbox gives you neither of the things you are looking for and removes a sale from someone who's more interested in what you want.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And, where can I get one for $179.99? With a case, a hard drive and a Geforce 3 video card?
Yeah, sure, it's legal to *sell* a closed system. However, there is absolutely no legal basis that allow a seller to prevent a consumer from opening it. The most they could do would be to void all warranties if you do anything unapproved.
If MS can say that you can't open it or run software on it, does that also mean that MS can keep you from reselling it or smashing it with a sledgehammer or just tossing the whole thing in the garbage?
If someone wants to maintain control of a device after they give it to the consumer, their only choice is to rent it to the consumer and maintain the ownership themselves.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
When did anyone ever agree not to tamper with the Xbox? This is a hardware product, not licensed software. You buy it, you own it. After you've paid for it, there are no legal restrictions on what you can do with it--smash it, put it in a closet and never use it, run Linux on it, etc.
Are you an MS employee? Your post is so full of blatant lies I don't see any other possibility.
"For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following..."
I mean really. I think this hack is as cool as the next person does, but who do these guys really think they're fooling? If there is one thing that everybody on the planet Earth knows, it's that MS is not about to assist ANYBODY in the installation of Linux on their console.
"We were nice, polite and reasonable in our attempt to pursuade MS into supporting offical Linux/Xbox development, but since they didn't call back, we released the exploit to the world at large."
I guess you can't blame em for trying, but how is this noteworthy again? Microsoft doesn't want Linux on the XBox. How dense do you have to be to not realize this??? OF COURSE THEY AREN'T GOING TO COOPERATE WITH YOU, regardless of how unfortuante you think it is!!!
You're asking them to remove the only saftey that guarantees they make money on games, their primary source of income! Add Linux and the box becomes a computer, a device of multiple uses. Now you can buy a cheap ass XBox computer sold at a hefty loss and MS has no guaranteed way to recoup the loss because you no longer have to buy games for it.
On top of all that, MS is in DIRECT COMPETITION with the Linux platform (unlike Sony)!!
To even believe they'd answer any other way than they did is insanity of the highest order. Asking them to sell their hardware at a loss and cut the only guarantee they can make the money back through games?! Yeah, I know I would have cooperated too...
I mean, I think the hack is cool, but the sheer naivity of people like these amazes me.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
any firm/soft-ware that came with the device you only have a license to use.. at their terms.
Fine then, I don't accept the terms of the license. I guess I gotta delete the software. Hmm, now what am I going to do with my XBOX? I know! I'll run Linux on it!
IANAL, of course, but IHAB, and it seems pretty obvious that the only HW EULA that would pass muster in a court would be one that the consumer reads and signs before completing the transaction. Otherwise, the consumer's belief that he is in fact purchasing the item in question, rather than a license to use it, would be ratified by any court that heard the case.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
There isn't anything on the outside of the box, and I didn't sign anything that agreed I could only use the firmward in a microsoft approved manner.
Why do you think I owe microsoft anything beyond the purchase price of the XBOX?
That's a bad business plan however (cause their not making money), so Standard Oil engineer the car so it only runs on their fuel, and any other fuel will choke it up and destroy the engine. They then sell that fuel on at a huge margin because it's the only fuel that can run in these cars. People buy the car because they see it is perhaps 10% cheaper than competing cars, but fail to notice the jacked up oil/fuel prices until after the purchase. Whew, starting to stink of monopoly now isn't it.
Some clever young engineers reverse engineer the "fuel-sodomiser" (TM) and create a replacement part which allows the car to utilise any oil companies petrol/oil. Now, you might think that's just fair play, it's your car and you can fill it up with whatever fuel you like and get it washed and serviced where you like. Standard Oil have a different concept. You got the car at a bit of a discount so they feel entitled to screw you over for the entire lifetime of the vehicle - and anybody you may sell it on to is likewise going to get screwed.
No court in the world would even think of charging you with criminal actions for replacing the fuel pump in *your* car with a cheap japanese/korean import. They wouldn't blink twice as you fitted a huge new carburator, or new mufflers from third party vendors. Nor would they convict you for switching from oil fuels to LPG. Why do they think we shouldn't have those same rights with our games consoles?
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
No, no, no, no, no !
Is there some sort of infinitely renewable stream of people completely unaware of how copyright works?
Copyright has nothing to do with a license. In the basic case, when you buy something that is protected by copyright, you neither need nor receive a license to use it. You are free to use it however you want. The only restrictions are specified in copyright law, primarily limiting your ability to distribute copies of the copyright protected work. There is no "you have no right to use this unless you get a license" clause in copyright law. There is no "when you buy something you get a license to use it" clause.
Unfortunately End User License Agreements have somehow tainted peoples brains and convinced them that they need some sort of magical license to use things they're purchased. You don't. Copyright law restricts you, yes. You can accept a license that will grant you things you couldn't do normally under copyright law (see the GPL, BSD, and similar licenses). But you don't need a license to use, modify for personal use, sell, or give it away! EULAs on software are built on a shaky legal foundation and is most certainly not a point of established law.
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