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Government Information Awareness

gbjbaanb writes "Wired News is reporting about the GIA, software inspired by the TIA program. 'Researchers at the MIT Media Lab unveiled the Government Information Awareness, or GIA, website Friday. Using applications developed at the Media Lab, GIA collects and collates information about government programs, plans and politicians from the general public and numerous online sources. Currently the database contains information on more than 3,000 public figures. The premise of GIA is that if the government has a right to know personal details about citizens, then citizens have a right to similar information about the government.'"

78 of 211 comments (clear)

  1. Coincidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder if it's just a coincidence that this site was put up on the 4th of July?

    1. Re:Coincidence? by bigjocker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I wonder is how long before the government pulls the plug on this one. Considering the practices shown, the government could argue almost anything from the Patriot Act to "information in the hands of terrorists", no matter how idiotic it is, and the big media (ala CNN) will repeat it to death so Joe Moron will believe it and feel comfy when the plug gets pulled.

      This project has the potential to show the big players the dangers and possible consequences of the Total Awareness Act (or whatever is named).

      Anyways, a great idea nontheless, and here's hopes for it to live long enough to make a difference. Projects like this, the EFF and the few others make you hopeful.

      --
      Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
    2. Re:Coincidence? by onthefenceman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This site is a godsend to all those interested in learning more about their government but who might not have the time or inclination to go wading through the public courthouse or library to find information.

      Also of interest is the fact that the MIT Media Lab receives vast amounts of funding from government and corporate donors. While I can't think of any legal means this site could be shut down, it could practically be accomplished by financial pressure either directly from these donors or indirectly from the Media Lab/MIT if it feels the squeeze of the purse strings. Let's hope that if this comes to pass the creators of this project stand strong.

      --
      Have you seen my stapler?
    3. Re:Coincidence? by plover · · Score: 2, Informative
      Apparently it doesn't scale to the size of your typical slashdotting...

      :-(

      --
      John
    4. Re:Coincidence? by Drakonian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it would be outrageous if they took it down. What kind of country doesn't let its citizens read up on the government? Possibly a dictatorship?

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    5. Re:Coincidence? by RobotWisdom · · Score: 2, Informative
      There's a Wiki-style Disinfopedia that's a lot farther along.

      Also, the MIT site should put the dang searchbox on the dang frontpage, dang it.

  2. Will it include the same information they collect? by Sagarian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Things like credit card purchases, phone bills, personal contact information, organizational affiliations, travel history, books checked out from the library -- you know, things you wouldn't want to hide unless you were a criminal?

  3. Excellent. by Mmm+coffee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People like these are the true patriots. Unlike my neighbors who never flown a flag until 9/11.

    1. Re:Excellent. by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even worse, theyre probably the same neighbors who show no respect for the flag. To them it is just a symbol of blind conformity. I see that so many peopl who just started being patriotic after 9/11 do such un-patriotic things like:

      1. Leave their flag out at night(without a light).
      2. Leave their flag out during rainy weather and storms.
      3. Don't properly dispose of flags that prematurely age because the above abuses.

    2. Re:Excellent. by MickLinux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I don't consider it bad not to have flown the flag. I don't consider it bad to stand with your fellow citizens. If flying their flag is how they choose to do it, then so be it.

      However, I do consider it bad to blindly follow a flag like Roman soldiers following a Roman standard. You really need to look at who is waving that flag before you run off and lynch someone, or kill someone, or help ship them off to Cuba, or invade someone else's country.

      Read Stephen King's "Through the Eyes of the Dragon" and "The Stand" if you want to know what he thinks of the Grand Ol' (Randall) Flag (Flagg)

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    3. Re:Excellent. by kaltkalt · · Score: 4, Informative

      exactly. http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html#176. Although I'm sure you knew that.

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    4. Re:Excellent. by plover · · Score: 3, Informative
      If you have a local Boy Scout troop or perhaps a veterans association such as an American Legion or VFW nearby, they would probably accept the flag for a proper disposal. My son's troop gets a couple of flags from local businesses every year, including a local Perkins' restaurant (yes those 40' flags wear out.) They cut them up, keeping the blue canton whole, and pass out pieces around a campfire and silently drop them in it. The scoutmaster reads a paragraph about the history of the flag, asks us to remember the people who have died defending it, then places the canton on top of the flames. (The huge canton from the Perkins' flag almost extinguished the fire one year.)

      It's a dignified end. The boys all take it very seriously. If you want to dispose of it yourself, a campfire works well. Respect is the key.

      A Molotov cocktail on national TV is not considered an appropriate end; many otherwise rational people will react most unfavorably towards you if you try. Personally I consider it free speech to burn a flag in protest; but I also am free to consider that sort of speech to be hateful and I will hold someone who does it in contempt.

      --
      John
    5. Re:Excellent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I notice there's nothing at that link about wiping your arse with the flag. That's a relief.

    6. Re:Excellent. by elmegil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think one of the main points is, if you're going to fly the flag as a matter of "solidarity", you need to educate yourself and show the flag some respect. I'm not a flag waver; never have been and likely never will be. But I know enough of the proper procedures to know that if I change my mind, I can get the information to do it right. Like lighting the flag at night (or taking it down), etc. I have a fair amount of respect for my neighbors who do it right (one guy does indeed have a light on his flag at all times)--even if I am certain that I wouldn't agree with them about some things--and none whatsoever for the bozos who think shredding a flag on their radio antenna is somehow patriotic.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    7. Re:Excellent. by MickLinux · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First, you'll have to forgive me -- I don't have a copy of either book here with me. So my quotes aren't quotes. However...

      Eyes of the Dragon: Randall Flagg certainly was old; he had advised the king, and his father. Some said that he was as old as the country; others claimed that no, he was the country; while yet others said he was only a symbol of the country.

      Both stories: Flagg doesn't do the bad things himself, for the most part. Rather, he gets others to do evil "in the name of [the] Flagg". I threw the "The" in there, in brackets, myself.

      That's for starters.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    8. Re:Excellent. by kaltkalt · · Score: 2, Funny

      sure, but when you have to justify your evil actions to the plebeians, you do so by saying "i'm doing this to protect your children" or something stupid like that (protecting precious children being the epitome of preserving law and order). If you are open about supressing freedom in the name of evil, you won't be very successful. You need to lie about your motives, no matter how you feel deep down inside your black, cold heart (trust me on this). Didn't you take Promulgating Evil 101?

      "I'm going to assrape you in the name of evil" won't get you very far, but "In the name of law and order, and to protect our precious children, I am going to assrape you" will enable you to freely rape assholes all day long (regardless of what your inner motives may be).

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    9. Re:Excellent. by Syre · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is what I've never understood.

      I was always taught that if a flag was soiled it had to be disposed of by burning.

      In fact, in 176. Respect for flag, it states:

      (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

      So how is it that people were put in jail for buring flags?

      Well, that's because of 700. Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties

      (a)(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

      Hmm... so if I want to respect the flag, I should dispose of it "preferably by burning" it, but if I burn it I desecrate it, and get put in jail for a year.

      Makes sense to me!

  4. Finally.... by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Politicians don't like it when they are held to the same standard as everyone else. It will be *really* funny when some unethical "contributions" are discovered. When Politicians see just how bad stuff like this is, maybe they will think twice.

  5. People tend to forget something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In a democratic republic, WE are the government. And, if you don't feel you are, take a more active role and make it so.

    1. Re:People tend to forget something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People who donate to political parties are the closest that a regular citizen can get to being the government.
      The rest of us just have our one vote.

  6. The government by xombo · · Score: 3, Troll

    I think that the government has done way too much for the sake of secrecy against its own citezens. Perhaps they should reconsider much of their classified data, especially that which is not-vital or threatening to the American nation as a whole.
    However, personal information should be kept secret. Displaying the data of as many government officials as possible just as "proper compensation" for the data they collect about us is not only unfair to the politicians but unfair to us (how dare them think we would be so stupid). Thousands of politicians vs. millions of people with their data harvested. It's arrogance on the government's part to think such a thing.

  7. 1984? by jimmer63 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Did George Orwell ever imagine a world where the populace itself would become the Big Brother of the government? It's 1984 in reverse. Quite ironic really. I wonder how the politicians will react. Increased privacy laws? We'll see. Maybe not in my lifetime though...

    1. Re:1984? by I+don't+want+to+spen · · Score: 3, Funny
      ... It's 1984 in reverse ...

      You mean 4891?

      --
      Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
    2. Re:1984? by Rectum2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is exactly how should work a democracy. With power comes the duty to be transparent and subject to critic.

    3. Re:1984? by Shackleford · · Score: 3, Funny
      Did George Orwell ever imagine a world where the populace itself would become the Big Brother of the government? It's 1984 in reverse.

      I wouldn't go that far. It only seems to be there to allow people to have fairly easy access to information that they can already get from other sources. They'd just need to try harder to get it from those other sources. From the article: GIA allows people to explore data, track events, find patterns and build profiles related to specific government officials or political issues. Information about campaign finance, corporate ties and even religion and schooling can be accessed easily. Real-time alerts can be generated when news of interest is breaking.

      So calling it "1984 in reverse" would be too much of an exaggeration. If it actually, were 1984 in reverse, then wouldn't that be funny? Seeing politicians on telescreens, commanding them to do whatever you want to tell them to do.

      "Bush! Number 437859! I don't see you touching your toes!" We could've gotten Clinton into shape that way. And I suppose I could make a joke about how Clinton's telescreen would've sometimes been a pornographic broadcast.

  8. Awfully curious... by FredFnord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...was that serious, or sarcastic?

    It was pretty straighfaced, if it was sarcastic. But if it was serious, it was just plain scary.

    -fred

    --
    Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
    1. Re:Awfully curious... by Loki_1929 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "But if it was serious, it was just plain scary."

      So are the programs that many of these people are pushing for. TIPS, TIA, Magic Lantern, roving wiretaps, constant surveillance, and more and more and more. If these people want to do it to us, why is it you have a problem with the people of this country doing it right back to them?

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    2. Re:Awfully curious... by Sagarian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Any type of information they can collect and access without a search warrant should be fair game for the populace to access about them. And with current legislative trends that body of information is growing ever larger. Hence I was only half-sarcastic.

    3. Re:Awfully curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whoosh! Thats the sound of something going straight over your head.

      1) Government declares they`ll starts keeping info on citizens in databases.
      2) Citizens say they'll do the same about the government
      3) You find b scary. Where were you when a was announced?

  9. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by Loki_1929 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Will it include the same information they collect? "

    I think individuals pushing for massive data collection should be the most heavily looked-at people on there. People like John Poindexter, John Ashcroft, and any Congresscritter who shows support for anything like the TIA needs to be followed, reported on, have their every purchase logged, their every movement cataloged, their every affair made public, and have every habit at the fingertips of the world. Let's show these people just what it is we don't like about programs like the TIA. Let's show them what it's like to have strangers turning your life into a database entry. Something like GIA could very easily turn into a platform for opposing programs like the TIA with actions instead of words. I'm not saying we should be in-you-face harassing these people; I'm saying we should simply find out every bit of possible information about them on a continuing basis until they drop support for 1984-inspired programs. If anyone who lives near these people would like to help out, then all the better.

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  10. Yeah, but do they have Em on there? by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Funny

    At first, I thought sure, this'll work, those politicians are too smart to get caught doing their shady stuff out in the open.

    Then I realized NO THEY AREN'T.

    So, this should be fun. Wonder how long before this site quietly goes away.

    Just remember folks, this is the government you are talking about. If they want, they can make you disapp... /NO CARRIER

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
  11. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by blibbleblobble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Will it include the same information they collect? Things like credit card purchases, phone bills, personal contact information, organizational affiliations, travel history, books checked out from the library..."

    There's always hope. After all, it only takes a few people who work in bars, restaurants, etc. to get the travel history, eating habits, partners' descriptions, etc. of the entire congress...

  12. The Name by Valen0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The name and concept is supposed to be a spin of the Government's TIA (Terrorist Information Awareness) program that spys on citizens for terrorist activity. More information on TIA is available at DARPA and a story that Wired ran.

    --
    -Valen
    1. Re:The Name by Distinguished+Hero · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TIA (Terrorist Information Awareness)

      Whhaaa?
      It was called Total Information Awareness until recently, and this is what their website used to look like. When did they rename it?
      Bah, just more newspeak...

      --
      Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
    2. Re:The Name by illuvata · · Score: 4, Informative

      they renamed it when some members of congress asked if spying on citisens might create a few problems. so, the name was changed to terrorist information awareness, and all was dandy again

      story about it

  13. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by Brushfireb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I am not sure if you are serious or not, your logic is flawed. The simple fact that the government has ACCESS to those files should not be legal. This is about challenging your government. Its what happens in fascist and dictator states.

    "Oh Look, he checked out an article by Locke, or Marx, or Lenin, Or an Islamic Text.....he MUST be doing something illegal. Kill him". While this is extreme, the government knowing what people are doing, seeing, reading, and learning allows them to find and target those with different political beliefs than they. The whole point of a free democracy is to prevent such things.

    The MIT cause hopes to prevent the government from having all the info and all the power, and returns some power to the people. The simple fact is, that behind every bad decision in government, there is a person responsible. The MIT site helps us to pinpoint who, so we (the PEOPLE, the CITIZENS) to not elect next time, or to ask our reps to fire.

  14. Great idea.. by CokoBWare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This idea is phenomenal. Finally a way for people to do a search on some meaningful information about their government officials. Hopefully, it will support more government databases in the future, as I believe that there are more than 3,000 government officials in the US.

    Unfortunately, I can't search on anything cuz the site just got /.ed ;-)

  15. A Few Thoughts by Shackleford · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I actually submitted this article this afternoon. Apparently, it was rejected because another user submitted it. Well, I'm not sure why, exactly. Anyway, I suppose I'll just dicuss a few thoughts that I had after I read the article and checked out the GIA website.

    Here, on the 4th of July, Americans have been presented with something that many of them would certainly like to have. Information on the individuals that have power over them. But is it not true that much of the information is available to the general public? The information in the database, which now contains information on more than 3,000 public figures, seems to be accessible enough. It would include information about campaign finance, corporate ties, etc. I suppose that this website would facilitate finding such information, which certainly is good. But it is all information that already seems to be avilable to us, as it can be submitted by people like you and I (and anonymously: good news for those who like to post as ACs here.)

    But what I'm sure many people would want is a more open government. One that does not keep as many secrets. One that does not do as much behind our backs. One in which there is less "classified information" although that may be a pipe dream. I understand that much information was removed from sites with the .mil TLD as a cetain terrorist organization was allegedly getting much useful information from it.

    But this stil seems to be a good idea. It'll make much information accessible to U.S. citizens, and, perhaps, if nothing else, hold up a mirror to those in power who want as much information on us as possible.

  16. I like it... by Whammy666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After all, it's supposed to be an open and transparent government despite Dumbya's efforts otherwise. But I wonder if it will survive. Some years ago, video rental outfits leaked a list of porno movies that members of congress and high-ranking justices were watching. Congress instantly passed legislation making it illegal to do that. It seemed that they didn't like people probing their personal viewing and reading habits. However, these same bunch of baffoons have no problem doing the same to Joe Public ala the Patriot Act and TIA.

    Keep this in mind in 2004 and vote.

    --
    When all else fails, run.
  17. There's a town in Oregon.... by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The mayor supported the Chief of Police in defying a Court Order not to troll through people's garbage without a warrant. But when a weekly paper went through THEIR garbage and published their findings (which were pretty banal, nothing spicey) the cop got "hostile" and the mayor went "ballistic"

    Both should lose their jobs.

    http://www.wweek.com/flatfiles/News3485.lasso

  18. Well... by Faust7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In true foil-hat fashion, I can't help but think that the GIA will only cover a fraction of what our government really does.

    If people start using the GIA as a standard for truth, if they say "It's in the GIA, it must be true," then the government will have an incredibly convenient way to encourage the belief in whatever information or misinformation it feels like. This would certainly have more clout than mass media outlets, which obviously have their own credibility issues.

    No government tells its citizens everything, and of what it does tell them, it's never the whole truth. What I do hope for from the GIA is at least apparent accountability that, while not touching upon all the madman's deeds that go on in secret subterranean complexes, will at least raise the public consciousness with regard to elected officials and get them (both the public and the officials) to act a little more responsible.

  19. Potential by Proaxiom · · Score: 4, Funny

    SELECT name FROM FederalPoliticians WHERE name.bimbo<>name.wife

  20. Hmmm by jeffkjo1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    This project has scant little information on the various politicians I searched for. John Ashcroft's entry merely has his position, and who appointed him to it. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but.... CONSPIRACY!
    ...

    In all seriousness though, this actually seems like a good thing, but it needs more meat to fill up the information pages.

  21. Cryptome.org by ManDude · · Score: 3, Informative

    cryptome.org is a good site as well. It isn't the easiest site to get around, but its comprehensive. Maybe there can be a marriage of the two. It would be beautiful.

  22. Taking Any Bets? by Coffee+Warlord · · Score: 2, Interesting


    If this takes off, how long you think it'll last online before the gov't declares it a 'terrorist informational tool' and starts (pardon the pun) terrorizing the masterminds of this one?

    Helluva idea, but I have a feeling it'll highly piss off our lovely government.

  23. Skip the happiness and look at the website... by shivianzealot · · Score: 2, Informative

    I must say, this site is rather tame. Age, place of birth, religion... its all really only information one might find in an encyclopedia. This is hardly intrusive, though a happy step forward. Perhaps my fellow commenters would care to post some ideas regarding new "features?"

    --

    Bored with karma, be a fan/freak

  24. anonymous contributions - how well will it work? by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 5, Insightful
    According to the wired article, information about politicians is posted anonymously, and the politician always has a chance to refute the claim. The claim and the reply are always kept together, no information is removed.

    There is system to rank the credability of the contributors to keep things in check, similar to epinions' trustworthiness ranking system.

    However, this could still be open to widespread abuse with a coordinated effort. A person posting a comment could be backed up by hundreds of people vouching for his or her integrity, and even if the politician replies denying the claim, the damage is already done, which is the whole point behind a smear campaign.

    The lesson is, be weary of all information you receive from anywhere. Everything is suspect and most of the details of information you receive about things you did not witness in first person is probably 90% incorrect. Did you ever do that experiment in school where you whisper a phrase around in a circle of people and by the time it comes back to you it's completely different?

    It will be interesting to see how this page plays out, to see if it is compromised by hundreds or thousands of people with an ajenda. It's hard to pick up on subtle slanting of information until it's too late.

    "In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." -- Winston Churchill

    ---Mike

  25. Proofreaders? by Two99Point80 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like the fact-checking needs a little work, as shown here...

  26. Good. by nepheles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is an excellent idea, and one which deserves to do well. The delicate system of checks-and-balances has been become skewed of late, and our privacy has been steadily eroded.

    The balance needs correcting, and this is a good way to set about it, by affecting the decision-makers personally.

    --
    ((lambda x ((x))) (lambda x ((x))))
  27. Not Very Deep by ipour · · Score: 4, Informative

    I like the premise, but this is a very superficial first effort. The site is slow, and you can get just about all of the same information at www.firstgov.gov. Knowing several public officials, I tried to use the site to see just what dirt I could dig up. I have to say I was pretty disappointed. I couldn't even get an official bio on all but the most prominent elected officials.

    If TIA does nothing more than this, then we have very little to worry about.

    1. Re:Not Very Deep by jpaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember, though, that it is *just* the first effort. The site just went up. And of course it'll be slow on its first day, when slashdot got to it. Give it time.

  28. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by ChadN · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I think his point was if we, the people, demand 'tit-for-tat' information awareness, then they, the government, might start to realize that it SHOULD be illegal. Ie., when push comes to shove, they will want to protect their privacy, and so will give us ours.

    Mind you, that probably won't happen, but the point was this is a tactic we can use to at least TRY to have a government that protects our rights.

    --
    "It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
  29. Open secrets by poptones · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I saw this last night and thought of submitting it, but after looking it over I blew it off because all it seems to be is a differently organized mirror of the opensecrets.org website. Every single "fact" I found was collected from there.

    One thing I did find interesting was looking at campaign contributions. The amount of money behind Liddy Dole and Hillary Clinton is fucking astounding. More then Ed Kennedy, more than Fritz Hollings - more than anyone else I looked at (and I looked at many).

    aside from campaign money there's just not that much there. No corporate holdings (which would be a helluva lot more interesting than donations), no special interest alliances - not much of nothing.

  30. Model by heli0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you read about the data collection method it seems that they are creating a database that is a cross between what you could find on google and information submitted by anyone ala IndyMedia.

    Hopefully it results in solid information and not this type.

    --
    Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
  31. the humour here is... by chef_raekwon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the humour is this: in the US, or any "democratic" state these days, the people ARE the government. An elected official should *in theory* be there for the people who elected him/her. So, because the official represents the people, the people, again *in theory* should make sure the official has full reports of his/her doing. Ie - no hidden secrets....

    why then, are there secrets in Government?

    i think it has something to do with money, business, and money....(and maybe money)
    what do the US citizens feel about this, seeing as how they are the pentultimate of Democracy?

    --
    We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
  32. Re:anonymous contributions - how well will it work by MagikSlinger · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It will be interesting to see how this page plays out, to see if it is compromised by hundreds or thousands of people with an agenda. It's hard to pick up on subtle slanting of information until it's too late.

    That's why the ACLU is opposed to TIA and the infamous TIPS program.

    --
    The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
  33. Not sure what the point is... by mick88 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems to me that this database could only provide information that we already know... cause when someone does something really stupid like get a DUI or smoke up, it makes it into the news right away anyway.

    Yeah, maybe with this database we can get credit card reciepts or ISP logs... what does that prove? that gov. employees watch porn or drink booze?? oh wait - so does everyone else.

    BFD, I say.

    --
    I created this account just so I could comment on this story
  34. Obligatory Zero-Wing Reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    In A.D. 2003, war was beginning.

    GWB: What happen?

    JA: Somebody set up us a website.

    GWB: We get e-mail.

    JA: Outlook Express turn on.

    MIT: How are you gentlemen?

    MIT: All your information are belong to us.

    GWB: What you say?

    MIT: You are on the way to major scandals.

    MIT: You have no chance to deny cocaine use allegations, make your time.

    GWB: For great justice, take off every DDoS attack!

  35. That's Nice, Except For One Thing by PingXao · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The premise of GIA is that if the government has a right to know personal details about citizens, then citizens have a right to similar information about the government.

    This is all fine and dandy except for one small thing: the government does not have a right to know personal details about citizens with the force of Big Brother's dream come true: TIA. I think it would be more beneficial to channel the energy that goes into GIA into making sure we elect leaders who will kill TIA before it really gets rolling. And un-electing those who permitted it to be born in the first place. Besides, if Big Brother has anything to say about it, this MIT Media Lab project will last only until the first time MIT is unexpectedly denied a government research grant or contract.

  36. If you're into exposing this sort of stuff... by AlienSexist · · Score: 2, Informative

    I encourage you to also check out InfoWars as well as Prison Planet, or any number of related sites. Most of these things that come up in YRO segments here on slashdot have been predicted or commented on weeks or months in advance by these folks.

    A healthy dose of paranoia or cold hard facts, you be the judge. But at any rate, they do their best to avoid speculation and point directly to the house & senate bills and underscore text of scary things like the Patriot Act. Much like Slashdot they are always linking to supporting stories from AP, Reuters, Washington post, etc.

    But in the words of Reading Rainbow's beloved host LeVar Burton: "You don't have to take my word for it."

    *Dons his Ring of Protection from Flame and wields the Troll Cleaver*

  37. "Who Watches the Watchmen?" by kremvax · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, in the Alan Moore Book it was Rorschach.

    But in a free and Democratic society, it is us.
    It had better be us. If not us, then the democracy will fail.

    This is an excellent step towards accountability in profoundly corrupt times. Another site that can help you "Follow the Money" is http://www.opensecrets.org

    To find out where your tax billions are going, try searching on: Halliburton, Bechtel, Brown & Root on either and both sites.

    Kremvax

    --
    --- Little Atomo - The Amazing Thinking Robot from Atomocom! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIP9KisHi4k
  38. Blog with delusions of grandeur by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This belongs to the family of "blogs with delusions of grandeur". The scheme depends on large numbers of people voluntarily going to the trouble to carefully put info into the right slots of the system.

    Ted Nelson's Xanadu, which was sort of like an overcentralized World Wide Web with revision control and micropayments, was the first attempt in this direction. The "Wiki" crowd has the same idea.

    This works well for popular culture and badly for almost everything else. To work, it needs a fan base. Slashdot is about as good as this idea gets.

  39. Building a transparent society by jordandeamattson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I submitted this article at 10:00 AM PST, 1:00 PM EST, this morning, but it was rejected. I don't know why that was the case, except I didn't take the standard /. twist to these issues.

    I believe this is actually an extremely positive step, for I am in agreement with David Brian and the arguments he makes in The Transparent Society , saying that we should realize that there is no privacy, and that we should focus on building transparency in our society.

    When we struggle to preserve annonimity and privacy, we are actually playing into the hands of those that would be despots, by building a system where they don't have to be accountable for their actions. For a small example of this one, think of how many times you have heard a government official state, when speaking of some action that is being challenged, "We can't discuss this matter do to privacy issues." Whose privacy are they protecting? The person that is challenging a wrongful firing or the child that claims they were abused in the local youth facility? No, they are protecting themselves, but they are using (and abusing) our focus on privacy at all costs to protect themselves and their positions.

    Bring on the transparent society. Let's work to end this situation!

  40. Quality of Information by ClarkEvans · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While this may be useful, it will die a horrible death; too much information at a high-level and not enough depth. Someone seems to be taking snapshots of CSPAN and associating these with names. Really, a person shouldn't be added unless quite an initial file can be made for them, such as name, associations, etc. Just their name and picture isn't a good start and will only serve to hurt the process.

    This needs to be more like open source "meritocracies", where anyone can send stuff to a "patch-list" but only committers who have proven themselves get access to change the database. Any other mechanism will be flooded by garbage.

  41. The Ivory Tower Effect? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Politicians have always been open relays to anyone who offers up money. A large majority of them are scum, whether by their own choice or by having to be scum because they are the proxies of scum. For most of history, they've been able to keep this under the carpet, because the ordinary people couldn't really make ripples; They didn't have the means of distribution available to them. Now the 'net has turned that on it's head.

    For a long time, politicians have wanted to and usually succedded in trying to control the people because they were the only ones who had the means of distribution available to them. Now here comes the internet and turns that around and kicks it soundly out the door. Now anyone can make their opinions available to millions in a matter of minutes or seconds.

    I suppose what I'm getting at is that GIA is backlash, to remind our politicians that they no longer control information or it's distribution. And you can bet they'll be screaming and kicking like spoiled little brats from hell. However, try all you want to put this magnesium-and-sodium candle out. It'll always come back, and if you douse it with water it'll only burn hotter.

    Interestingly, most current politicians haven't played with this kind of fire yet, and they haven't learned that you'll get burned.

  42. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by Lectrik · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Well, I think his point was if we, the people, demand 'tit-for-tat' information awareness, then they, the government, might start to realize that it SHOULD be illegal. Ie., when push comes to shove, they will want to protect their privacy, and so will give us ours.


    Well except they'll probably just make it illegal for us, and write in an exception for their own total information awareness programes
    --
    --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
  43. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by rking · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or in other words, "I say we stalk 'em" (Score: +5, insightful)

    OR "If they plan on stalking us, and argue there's no reason we should mind, then how about we show them what it's like?"

  44. The only way out is in by spun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Pandora's box is open, but there, fluttering on the bottom, is hope. We can't stem the flood of information that is about to wash away every vestige of the notion of privacy, but we can make sure that it washes over the rich as well as the poor, the powerful as well as the weak. I think the weak will bend before the flood, while the powerful, who have more to hide, will break.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  45. The system makes it more difficult: by lommer · · Score: 4, Informative

    taken from this page: http://opengov.media.mit.edu/GIA/data.jsp

    If you look at the flowchart they have, it actually takes quite a bit of effort to get information onto the system, as two of the possible four results of the system lead to the information being discarded. Check out the flowchart, and read the page - It covers a lot of important stuff.

  46. Re: (Not so) Excellent. by chill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    exactly. http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html#176. Although I'm sure you knew that.

    Holy Shit! Have you read all that? Unless Little League, BSA, GSA and hundreds of others have been designated a "patriotic organization", they are all in violation for wearing flag patches.

    God help all those people in D.C. who put flag decals on their cars, then later sell them. $100 fine and/or 30 days in jail. (This may only relate to any vehicle used in business, I'm still in too much shock to re-read it all.) [Title 4, Chapter 1, Paragraph 3]

    Want to make & sell a flag or lapel button flag? Get a license from the Sec. of Defense for face $1,000 max. fine.

    However...

    "...no federal agency has the authority to issue 'official' rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups."

    Thus they are customs, not law. Except for the D.C. thing.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  47. Re:He's not Dumbya, and he's not dumb. by Stephen+VanDahm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "But he isn't dumb"

    Anyone who has lived in the United States all his or her life and still cannot pronounce the word "nuclear" is a dumbass. Every time that idiot goes on TV and talks about "Nu-cue-ler" weapons he embarrasses the entire nation.

    "and it's inappropriate to call him Dumbya."

    Can I call him "Fratboy" instead?

  48. there's more than just voting by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >The rest of us just have our one vote.

    This is the wrong attitude to have; keeping silent until election day out of cynicism of the system because the wealthy have better access than you.

    Join a political organization, the ACLU and NORML could always use more members. *two organization I'm part of.

    Local government: There are many opportunities to make your voice heard. *I've done a little regarding the local school system, but I hope to exploit this more

    Keep in touch with your congress person: fax and phone them over issues and pending legislation. *A little ackward at first, but now I feel very comfortable calling up and saying "Yes I'm a constituent and I would like my congressman to vote against ..."

    Cyber-politics: web-based form letters, forwarding emails/links, mature discourse on poltics on web forums, etc *this is probably the most accessible way to get involved and will probably change government/citizen interaction in considerable ways in the next couple years.

    I do all of the above, and yes it has its downsides, but en masse getting involved in politics is very healthy for a democracy and when real results come out of it (and they do) then it hard to justify the complete apathetic stance of 'all we get is a vote, they're in charge.' Why not become "them?"

    Regardless of all the examples of cronyism and corruption you can think of, X amount of government will be little people making their voices heard. The question is do you want to be part of that X amount, thus influencing it with your views, or not?

    Lastly, all of the above really doesn't take much time. I think at one time the apathetic stance could have been defended a bit more easily, but with advances in politics on the web its almost a crime not to do something as simple as point-and-click donate or point-and-click fax.

  49. Beware! This is a TIA Honeypot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only terrorists would attempt to discover information regarding their elected officials. You have been warned.

  50. Re: Coincidence? (Some hope!) by lakmiseiru · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Charles Vest, the president of MIT, published a statement in September of 2002 which dealt directly with the issue of openness in universities, particularly regarding scientific research. Although this particular endeavor doesn't specifically fit that category, his words still pertain. I've copied the most notable ones below; the entire statement may be found here.

    "By and large, the academic community has treated this as a reasonable approach and, of course, will comply with the law. But even this seemingly straightforward approach is not without a huge potential price to be paid in the advancement of science, and therefore in our health and welfare. The MIT Ad Hoc Committee on Access to and Disclosure of Scientific Information was deeply concerned about the path down which we may be starting, noting that the Secretary of Health and Human Services has the statutory power to expand the list of select agents. The Committee expressed the view that we could soon arrive at a level of restriction of access to materials by our students, faculty, or staff on the basis of their citizenship, for example--something that would be incompatible with our principles of openness, and would cause us to withdraw from the corresponding research topics on our campus. "

    Hopefully this doesn't come to pass, but if it does, I have some faith in MIT's ideals of openness over funding.

    --

    Access denied: Not enough clue for requested operation.
  51. Re:This is a pathetic and misguided attempt by underscorebleach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Once again, a stupendous failure to appreciate that this so-called GIA would be most effectively used against local, small-change politicians. The big politicians are the ones who have the resources to combat this sort of thing in the first place. They have the support of volunteers and paid organizations that can go to bat for them. But what about a city alderman?

    I get mad at my alderman. I get 10 friends to play along. We do a little research on Mr. Alderman. We publish his phone information. Maybe we do a little bit of amateur spying on him, following him to work or watching him grocery shop. We make a few specious accusations for the helluvit--and because hey, he's a jerk, right?

    The big politician can fend that off. The little guy is fighting against you and your 10 friends. And he's not winning.

    Remember, kids: you might want to run for office someday. Manage databases and reading Slashdot might get old. But hey, maybe I just have broader aspirations.

    --
    [tom sherman | fancy sig | mod me down]
  52. Re:um.. They already are under a microscope. by Loki_1929 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "why do we think it is important to have the nation aware of blue dresses and activities between consenting adults in private, but not important to be able to look for patterns in the behaviour of large numbers of people to find the 1 in a million dangerous types?"

    Because "dangerous" can mean a lot of different things. Would George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and others have been considered "dangerous" to Brittain in, say, 1770? Dangerous can mean a lot of things. Dangerous can mean someone with a revolutionary idea that could wipe out a major industry. Dangerous can be someone with information that would destroy a major political figure. What a person or group in power considers dangerous often has nothing at all to do with physical injury. George Bush considers the idea of gay marriage to be "dangerous", which is why he's considering pushing for a Constitutional amendment banning it.

    The other problem is with this "patterns in the behavior" approach. What you're suggesting is that once we identify something that many terrorists have done, anyone who does those things (even if they're perfectly legal) is probably a terrorist. What this logic fails to take into account is that patterns of behavior are easily changed by those wishing to conceal who and what they are. The moment you lock onto certain habits and such, those trying to conceal themselves begin altering how they do things. You may catch a few real terrorists, but most simply fade away once again. Caught up in the middle of all this are dozens or hundreds of people who have done nothing wrong, but yet are still sitting in a holding cell being interrogated by MPs for days on end. Or maybe the MPs decide that the ones who aren't telling them all about their terrorist buddies were simply trained in how to defeat interrogation techniques, so they simply declare them "enemy combatants" and lock them away for life. Looking for a pattern of behavior assumes guilt by those fitting it. When you look down a long checklist of things to look for and you're sitting there going, "check, check, check, yep check, does that too, check..." and on and on, the only thing on your mind is, "we've got to get this terrorist bastard now."

    The other problem with looking at patterns of behavior is that people will begin to figure out what government is looking for, and avoid doing those things, even if they're perfectly legal. What you end up with is a chilling effect on a number of different things, like the freedom to simply live your life the way you want to, so long as you're within the law. To have unwritten and secretive laws, which is what you're basically advocating, sounds the death knell in any Democracy. Democracy assumes an informed public, and in turn assumes a public capable of informing itself. What you, and others, are asking for is that we remove as much information as possible from the public sight, making the public less and less informed, while telling them that everything will be ok because it's being done for their own protection. From a government that has berided governments on almost every continent about not being open and transparent, to begin to close things off here simply goes to show that we're moving in the wrong direction.

    "It will be very hard to do properly, but it is just plain dumb not to try."

    It's impossible to do, without simply annihilating the Constitutionally-guaranteed rights of so many people that you end up giving up the very thing you're fighting to protect. Pearl Harbor, September 11th, none of it makes me feel any differently about the ideas and the ideals of our Constitution. It wasn't ever written to be something that's easy to follow. It's hard because it's right. It's hard to look at someone you just know did some horrible crime and not simply beat him to death. It's hard to not want to have the police come and arrest the guy who's on the street corner saying thing to you that go against every single thing you hold dear. It's hard to respect the right of

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  53. Work for the unemployed by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This represents an excellent opportunity for the unemployed to volunteer for community service. If the out-of-work took up the task of filling out this database the benefit to the republic could be remarkable. A mere hundred polspotters in each city could obliterate incompetence by obscurity from the public sphere, and put a good dent in the quid pro quo system as well.

    Some ideas:
    To defeat nepotism and the system of influencing pols by employing their family members, all family members of pols should be entered with their employment data.
    Some feature should be devised to phrase the statement "This person is a member of this group of seven, each of whom is a CEO serving on the board of the other six."
    Lastly and most difficult, there are many in public service worthy of respect. Some have surmounted great challenges, some have demonstrated courage in the face of danger, some toil diligently to serve the public weal. I hope that reports of these facts find prominent places within the dataset as well.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  54. Re:Will it include the same information they colle by surprise_audit · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If you think someone's following you, start taking photos. Get a friend to follow you at a discreet distance with a video camera. Place that friend on a street corner, then walk/drive past while your friend films everyone behind you. If you see common faces in the photos/movies, call the police on your "stalker"... Tell 'em you feel threatened, that you think the "stalker" might be armed.

    Or, more passively, lay in a lot of supplies, then hole up at home for a week or more. Don't leave the house, keep the curtains closed, don't even use lights visible to the outside. The watchers will at least get very, very bored, possibly to the extent that they'll quit, or get sloppy enough to fall for phase 2. Get a few friends to come over, the more the better. All immediately exit the house dressed identically and scatter in all directions. Arrange for several look-alikes to leave town.