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Motherboard Audio Comes Of Age

Posted by michael on from the master-blaster dept.

darth_silliarse writes "ExtremeTech have thankfully confirmed that I am not completely deaf - onboard m/b sound is not as bad as it sounds. Is onboard sound for the poor, needy or completely bone idle? What are other peoples opinions of m/b sound? If nothing else, it frees up a PCI or ISA slot... ;o)"

31 of 367 comments (clear)

  1. The surprise of audio by freeio · · Score: 5, Funny

    I spent so many years with no audio on any system, that the first hardware that had it was a shock: KDE starts with a bongo riff?!

    All those years I thought those gears made a different sound.

    --
    Soli Deo Gloria
  2. Good Enough by KingJoshi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I may be deaf, but I don't think most people are audiophiles. So motherboard sound is good enough. I think nvidia2 graphics cards are good enough for the masses because they don't play the latest and greatest games.

    BTW, how many slots do we really need? With so many USB peripherals, PCI and especially ISA slots aren't the important resources they once were.

    --
    In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
    1. Re:Good Enough by kilogram · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a part-time DJ, running audio through computers and MP3 most of the time; on-board audio is good enough. The slightly degraded quality of the MP3s make it impossible to hear a difference between a onboard chip and a Sound Blaster Audigy, which we recently upgraded to. The difference is that the Audigy is capable of doing proper surround (which is not normally a concern at a disco, but we use it to separate speaker and headphone sound coming from the same computer, and thus reducing delay coming from using two separate soundcards).

      The onboard sound is quite good enough, you have to have a heck of a stereo to think it is "unusable", which I've heard a few people say IRL. As long as you are playing MP3s/OGG/, this will be the degrading you hear, not the onboard chip.

    2. Re:Good Enough by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have to respectfully disagree. With you being a DJ, I don't doubt you know good sound when you hear it, but...

      As a comparison, I played the same tracks through a VIA Eden M6000 with onboard sound, and an M-Audio Revolution in the PCI slot. It was chalk and cheese, and this was just using some pretty average Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks 2.1 speakers. The purist in me prefers FLACC, but even with MP3 or Ogg at (around) 256 bitrate, I can hear a big difference. Maybe a lot depends on the individual mainboard and PSU etc, but in this instance the sub-$100 M-Audio card kicked it's ass.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    3. Re:Good Enough by twiztidlojik · · Score: 3, Informative

      The other good thing about MP3 is its versatility. Your examples are fitted perfectly for their bitrates, but I prefer a better-quality MP3 as I do listen to MP3's on my home stereo and other places where a high-quality bitrate is A Good Thing. I would rather sacrifice space for quality on my iPod, but you sacrifice quality for space. This is a personal preference. I prefer high-quality.

      --
      I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
  3. Not on a Mac it 'aint by Anoraknid+the+Sartor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Try the following:

    1) play mp3 through decent stereo straight from (Quicksilver) Mac.

    2) Burn same Mp3 to CD and play through same stereo.

    from CD is quite a lot better.....

    Why?

    --
    Find Japanese addresses in English on Google Maps Japan: http://diddlefinger.com/
    1. Re:Not on a Mac it 'aint by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll bite

      That isn't true at all. They sound identical. I don't know what kind of eqiptment equipment you're using or at what settings but in iTunes with Sound Check, Sound Enhancer and EQs all off they sound perfectly identical coming from my Quicksilver of straight from my Receiver (which is hooked up to Edirol Monitors).

      As an additional note it also sounds the same as if I port it through the UA-700 or if I play the MP3's through Peak instead of iTunes.

    2. Re:Not on a Mac it 'aint by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not necessarily. If the signal path from the Mac into the stereo amp is electrically noisier than the signal path from the stereo's CD player to the amp, it could easily sound worse from the Mac. The source signal would be very much the same, but it's getting fux0red along the way.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    3. Re:Not on a Mac it 'aint by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      First of all, an MP3 is not a good test. MP3s sound bad even at 320Kbps, because the algorithm simply does not scale beyond about 160Kbps. Vorbis and AAC are a whole lot better, but if you are on decent quality hardware then the artifacts are noticable.

      The reason that your example sounds better when burned to a CD is due to electrical noise. The inside of a computer case is an incredibly noisy environment (in both acoustic and EM specra). Converting the digital signal to analogue inside the case is going to sound bad. If you want decent sound from a computer then keep the signal 100% digital until after it has left the case. Keep the amplifier away from sources of EM noise (like, for example a computer).

      The question of whether onboard audio is adequate is quite stupid. There is no difference in quality between (for example) a SB PCI128 in a PCI slot, or one soldered onto the motherboard. They are both in the case, on the PCI side of the south-bridge. I consider onboard sound to be adequate for going 'pling', game sound effect, and music that I'm not really listening to. For anything else there is far too much noise, and this can only really be solved by using an external DAC, either in the form of a SPDIF output from a computer or a USB/FireWire external card. And ideally putting the computer in the next room, so you don't hear the fan noise.

      By the way, my onboard audio chip on a 2 year old motherboard has a perfectly acceptable digital output...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Not on a Mac it 'aint by f97tosc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try the following:
      1) play mp3 through decent stereo straight from (Quicksilver) Mac.
      2) Burn same Mp3 to CD and play through same stereo.


      Now try the above but have a friend randomly switch sound sources while you look the other way. No trolling, but can you still sense the difference?

      There is a _lot_ of psychology in sound systems; oftentimes even the true audiophiles fail blind tests between pieces of equipment of which they have very different opinions.

      Tor

  4. Contradiction or tongue in cheek? by Munelight · · Score: 5, Funny

    "onboard m/b sound is not as bad as it sounds"

    Oh, and buy this monitor too... I know it's scratched and can't seem to show the colour blue... But trust me, the picture's not as bad as it looks.

  5. must be a PC thing by v1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My comps have always had good onboard sound. I never understood why anyone would make a motherboard without it in the first place. I realize some of today's really high quality sound cards have some things you just wouldn't find on a built-on, but there's really no excuse for lack of at least basic audio support.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:must be a PC thing by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Look at the THD numbers and you will understand why discrete components are better. In fact doing the A/D conversion outside the RF noisy PC case is even better, which is why Pro and semi-pro boards have the adac's on breakout boards and just do the DSP stuff in the case.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:must be a PC thing by trompete · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Onboard Audio is good AS LONG AS you can disable it if you want to. I know a bunch of people whose boards came with it but have it disabled for some sort of other audio card (myself included).
      If they start making drive bay extensions for onboard audio like my SBLive Platinum has, I'm game. Until then.....bios->advanced settings->Onboard Audio=off.
      On another topic: Onboard LAN is fantastic!!!

      --
      More than enough BS
  6. It's all in the speakers by russx2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As far as I'm concerned, it makes no odds these days whether you have the latest soundblaster or some cheapo onboard beast. Unless you have high quality speakers (which I imagine the average computer user doesn't) the difference is neglibile.

    Of course, I can't tell the difference between a 128 and a 160 mp3, so who am I to speak? :-)

    1. Re:It's all in the speakers by afidel · · Score: 5, Informative

      And much better than speakers is a decent set of headphones. Cans will beat speakers costing several times as much. Get a pair of cheaper Sennheisers (HD487's) or Grado's (SR 60's) which come in well under the $100 mark but will just blow you away with their awsome sound quality if you are used to anything but an audiophile setup. From there you might get into some of the more expensive models but these are great for me and I'm used to studio monitors.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  7. An old yet relevant review by MikShapi · · Score: 3, Informative

    THG did a nice rundown a while ago on (still-)existing audio chipsets on Mobos and sound cards, comparing bells&whistles, CPU usage and IIRC quality.

    Cheers.

    --
    -
  8. Good enough by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I bought my first motherboard with onboard sound recently, ECS K7SOM+ (it's also got onboard networking, graphics and even a built-in AMD processor that's soldered in (only on some of these boards... the k7som is also available as a normal motherboard) because I want a cheapo one faster than my current P233 (go on... laugh... it runs Dreamweaver, Word, Paint Shop Pro, Counterstrike and everything else along those lines so I don't care) that I can upgrade later.

    I was impressed with the onboard audio, given that I am still a SoundBlaster fan. The only problems I have are driver problems with some ancient games (i.e. ones where you still have to SET BLASTER=). Can you believe that I can't get the original Syndicate running with sound? Disgusting. :-)

    Given that I'm used to running P233 / P500's with decent VooDoo's, the built-in sis740 3D graphics also impressed me, the sheer brute force of a 1.2GHz processor means I can run games that the P500 with Voodoo 3500 can't handle as well.

    I see built-in audio & networking as identical to the convential... after all, audio cards are just fairly low speed Digital-Analog or Analog-Digital convertors. Built-in video is good enough for business/office use, as far as I can see but for HalfLife 2 I can of course see that you're gonna need a decent, up-to-date, DX9 card.

    My next upgrade to this computer will be to remove the motherboard and make a router out of it, buy one that has built-in audio + networking + an AGP slot + 6 PCI slots and put in the fastest processor I can afford. That way, I can use all of my existing bits from this computer.

    Finding a MB with that many PCI slots isn't hard but it isn't every board that has it. Considering that I need to continue to use my existing 2 PCI network cards (Intel EtherExpress Pro's), at least one PCI RAID card (onboard RAID would be used as well), possibly a PCI TV card, I wouldn't want to have to use up another for a Soundblaster card when I can just use the onboard audio.

    If you're a serious audio user (i.e. work in a recording studio), I can see that onboard audio is like telling a photographer to use a disposable camera. Otherwise, I really don't see the point.

  9. I hate onboard anything by nut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the biggest things I like about modern PC's is that they're just like lego. You can buy the motherboard, CPU, sound card, video card, etc... you want, stick them all together, and hey presto! It works! And more importantly it gives me choice.

    Motherboards should have nothing on them except lots of slots. I like my computers modular.

    --
    Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
    1. Re:I hate onboard anything by tunah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So you'll pay $20 or whatever for a sound card, and would prefer them *not* to put in a 20 cent onboard chip?


      At least you're supporting the local economy.
      --
      Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
  10. Sound cards by nother_nix_hacker · · Score: 5, Funny
    If nothing else, it frees up a PCI or ISA slot... ;o)"
    If you push hard enough an SB live will fit into the AGP slot and still work on Linux! :)
  11. I've been listening to onboard sound ... by jstockdale · · Score: 3, Insightful

    for quite some time now and I mean I've sure found the same thing. I can't seem to hear the difference between audio out and the rest of the hardware plugged into my stereo. Seems like 5.1 onboard is coming of age being analog^W digital and all ... erm ...

    ... nevermind

    *thud*

    --
    **AA: a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
  12. Performance hit? by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 5, Informative

    There were some articles on Tom's Hardware a while back (can't find them now) which gave anything up to an 18% performance hit (frame rate wise) for onboard sound with EAX enabled.

    Turning on EAX with my audigy or SB live platinum makes 1-2% difference.

    Presumably the onboard sound chips are using the CPU for a lot more of the grunt work - not a great thing for a gamer, or indeed for a Linux user* unless they are _sure_ that there will be (good) drivers for that chip.

    *Yes, yes, you can be a gamer _and_ a Linux user you know.

    --
    Beep beep.
  13. Noisey Anyway by Book16 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In most situations I don't think it actually matters. A computer produces so much EMI which in turn creates noise in the audio regardless of whether you are running on-board sound or otherwise. Unless you are getting the signal out of the computer digitally, there is going to be noise. The only real reason I can think of for buying a high-end peripheral sound-card is if you need it for use as part of a digital audio workstation (high smaple-rates, resolution etc... or because you want multi-channel surround. -- Book

    --
    -- Book
  14. It's the Freaking Principle of the Thing by clifgriffin · · Score: 3, Funny

    Telling your friends you have a "Sound Blaster Audigy 2 with Inspire 6.1" speakers is more impressive then preaching about the quality of an on board card.

    MSI actually has a few boards with high quality 5.1 surround sound cards on board.

    For 75% of users on board is going to be just fine...they won't even notice the difference.

    I've built 10+ PCs for people around town, but I can't say that I have defaulted to onboard audio more then just a couple of times. I don't know why, just seemed like such a cheap way to go. My users wouldn't have ever known the difference though.

    For the 25% of us who are music enthusiasts or at least wannabes, we can spend ridiculous amounts of money on better equipment...and there is always the added bonus of bragging rights.

    You hear that you stupid on board audio users?! My sound card is freaking better then your crap.

    Ahh..that felt good.

    Clif

    --
    clifgriffin > blog
  15. onboard/offboard big difference... by gTsiros · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Both things are ICs. Chips that do some work. Mobos these days have an AC97 chip on board (it's just a mixer and ADC/DAC. It's not that bad tho. 18bits...) What if it was an SB audigy 2 on board? Or

    Doesn't matter where it is located.

    It DOES matter tho, if the DAC/ADC circuits are isolated.

    so onboard DSP processing with external (or at least very well isolated DAC/ADC) is the best deal.

    However, do note some people like to listen to their computer working... (you can hear all those funny noises in the electrical circuits due to resonance. It's very interesting.)

    --
    Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
  16. Re:My Experience by bigman2003 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was wondering when/if someone was going to mention Nforce 2.

    Here is a page with good info about the sound on an Nforce 2 motherboard. http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/nforce2/nforce_2 .htm

    All of that looks impressive for ON BOARD sound, and I really think that 99.9% of the people out there would find that this is good enough.

    --
    No reason to lie.
  17. The bigger surprise by Compact+Dick · · Score: 5, Funny

    is that you got audio working on Linux.

    --
    Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
    1. Re:The bigger surprise by freeio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, that is the funny part. This system is a picture editing system which spends most of its time running Adobe Photoshop on Windows, but which I used to test a recent distribution (SuSE 8.2) as a dual-boot. The SuSE installer found _everything_ in the way of hardware and configured it to work fine on the first try. Even the SanDisk flash-card reader works. Life is good!

      This system is based on a Gigabyte GA-7DXR+, and yes, the sound is on board - a Creative CT5880 chip. Perfect? Well no, but certainly more than adequate for my actual needs. And yes, it works under Linux.

      --
      Soli Deo Gloria
  18. MB audio can definitely be a great thing. by LeoDV · · Score: 5, Funny

    My home-built system is running an Asus A7N8X Deluxe, which handles 5.1 on hardware. If I wanted to turn my computer into a home cinema or have surround sound for my games, I wouldn't even *need* one of them there fancy sound cards.

    MB audio really depends on what mb you have, but these days they manage to cram so much on motherboards it's insane... Back in my days you didn't have motherboards! You just had boards of woods and you madez furniture out of them!

  19. Re:What's wrong with the PC speaker? by nomadic · · Score: 3, Funny

    I remember hearing this little program that someone wrote that played the star trek next generation theme through the PC speaker. I sounded tinny, but other than that it sounded exactly like the full orchestral version.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if sound cards had never been invented programmers would eventually have gotten the PC speakers to sound a lot better (though they'd still bad). Since you could play just about any note, and at any speed, you can do a fair amount with them.

    We now close with Iolo's Song from the PC version of Ultima 5:

    beep BEEP beep, beep BEEEP beep,
    beep BEEP beep BEEP beep beep beep beep,
    beep beep beep, beep beep,
    beep beep beep beep beep beep.