Teach An Old Athlon New Tricks

budn3kkid writes "Seems like Upgradeware have a new gadget out for those overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU. Also, saw an article at ol' Tom's about it right here as well."

Comments

Junis reporting in...

[Anonymous Coward]

After digging around at random in the desert, I found this latest gadget. It works fantastic. Baywatch looks crystl clear on my Commodore-64 now!

Thank you!

Already slashdotted

[Alan]

*sigh*

Only two comments posted, and already the link is showing a lovely error page.

Google cache still around though, grab it here.

Since the provided link is hosed...

[ncc74656]

...try this instead. The server isn't /.'d (yet), but the link to the page with more info about the XP-TMC is invalid. (None of the other product links on that page work, either...mighty fine website. :-P )

Choked Bus?

[rice_web]

This upgrade raises the concern of the choked bus. I mean, who really wants to run a 3000+ on a 133MHz system bus?

I do, and benchmarks have consistently shown that an increase in bandwidth for the Athlon rarely produces a substantial increase in speed (i.e. the recent speed "jumps" from AMD).

Re:Choked Bus?

[tevenson]

I don't think they show a substantial speed increase, but I think they show a larger increase than by simply ramping up the CPU clock.

I know that if I clock my Athlon higher first using the CPU multiplier, and then using the FSB, my results show that the FSB boost is far more effective. Recently AMD has had more significant FSB increases than CPU speed increases (move from DDR200, DDR333, DDR400).

Re:Choked Bus?

[rice_web]

And the jump from 333 to 400 is incredibly small and had Tom's Hardware jumping all over the claimed speed of the Athlon XP.

Granted, an increase in the FSB helps a lot, but not as much in, say, a Pentium 4 or an IBM 970, where a large FSB is vital. The Athlon is comparatively simple, and the 400MHz FSB is overkill.

Again, an Athlon XP 3000+ will be faster on a DDR400 system than in my old 133MHz FSB system.

Re:Choked Bus?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Quake3 and most of the other benchmarks the CPU with a 133MHz bus @ 2.133GHz performs worse than the cpu running with a 166MHz bus at 1.833GHz.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030703/tmc_ad ap ter-04.html

Re:Choked Bus?

[CTho9305]

The Athlon is comparatively simple, and the 400MHz FSB is overkill.

This isn't because of simplicity - it has to do with the size of cache lines in the L2 cache. The P4 fetches larger blocks with each miss, meaning a longer wait when a miss occurs. The Athlon, making smaller fetches, requires less bandwidth for a given miss. Obviously, if you designed worst-case code that was aimed at generating pure misses, both processors would be abbysmal and heavily affected by FSB, but normal code is not like that.

Re:Choked Bus?

[rice_web]

Take a look at the pipeline stages and you'll see that we're on the same page. The Athlon has many fewer pipeline stages (one reason that the Athlon typically beats the P4 at the same clock speed) than the Pentium IV. As you said, the "P4 fetches larger blocks with each miss", and that's true, thanks to its larger pipeline.

Re:Choked Bus?

[NanoGator]

"This upgrade raises the concern of the choked bus. I mean, who really wants to run a 3000+ on a 133MHz system bus?"

Depends on what you're doing. I did some informal (and unscientific I should mention) tests using Lightwave on an an Athlon vs. a P4 with Hyperthreading etc. The specs on the P4 sounded like should have blown the doors off of the Athlon. Nope. The Athlon was surprisingly quick. It's not even a modern Athlon, either. It's got a 266 bus.

I don't think LW cares too much about the bus. Then again, my results aren't exactly conclusive so take what I've said with a grain of salt. I had to admit, though, I was pretty stunned by my 1.5 year old Athlon's performance. (happy too!)

Re:Choked Bus?

[CTho9305]

...thanks to its larger pipeline.

You can set cache line size to any arbitrary length when you design a processor. Now, because of the longer pipeline and higher clocks of the P4, I believe that larger cache lines make more sense, but you don't inherently need longer cache lines when you have a longer pipeline.

Nice

[desenz]

Its nice not to have to put a whole new rig together, but how useful is it? Eventually you're going to end up with a super-fast CPU that is dragged down by the rest of the rig.

Re:Nice

[Ed Avis]

From the Guide to being l33t:

Your computer is a "box" It is no longer acceptable to refer to your computer as a machine, workstation, CPU, PC, server, etc. Your computer is a "box". And you must refer to your computer as a box at all times.

I propose a modification to this. When talking about gaming or about overclocking (and especially AMD systems), your computer is not a 'box' but a 'rig'. The correct phrase to express that your computer is fast is that it is a 'sweet rig'.

Re:Nice

[outsider007]

and by 'guide to being l33t' they mean
'guide to being a parents' basement dwelling uber-dork'.

Re:Nice

[Goozbach]

you say "parents' basement dwelling uber-dork" like it's a bad thing.

hmm..

[geekmetal]

Sooner or later, everyone has to face the problem that their computer is not fast enough. The conventional way to solve this by buying a new one or upgrading the current one quickly becomes expensive and is only seldom justifiable. However, home users have the option of tuning their systems using all the tricks in the books. Yes indeed, we're talking about traditional overclocking.

A tradional alternate solution for a conventional method to solve a problem.. interesting

I'm sure retailers will love this.

[LordOfYourPants]

"Now you don't need to paint the L3 bridges with a silver pen or cut the L3 bridges with a penknife on your Athlon XP processor jut in order to adjust multipliers. XP-TMC total multiplier controller can help you to do the job without any mod on your processor. The warranty of your processor can be kept alive"

So now stores that sell these CPUs now have even less to work with when determining whether John Smith walking into the store asking for a CPU exchange actually had a faulty CPU to begin with or was doing mad l33t overclocking in his basement last night.

Why is this a good thing? Someone that's willing to buy this device seems like they'd also be of the mindset to lie at the return counter if their CPU kills itself early after an Overclocking Session Gone Bad (TM).

The results of that? 1) The people working the front counters of the computer store hating their jobs due to arguing with customers about whether or not they tried overclocking their CPUs. 2) The prices for these CPUs going up due to the return/exchange rate on them. 3) Like in the case of some stores with Apex and other high-return brands, they just take a harder stance on people that want a straight exchange of the product.

Who wins here? The company selling the adaptor. No one else.

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[TrekkieGod]

Why is this a good thing? Someone that's willing to buy this device seems like they'd also be of the mindset to lie at the return counter if their CPU kills itself early after an Overclocking Session Gone Bad (TM).

Oh, c'mon. I don't want to physically mess with my cpu and all of the sudden I'm an immoral person?

Overclocking processors isn't that dangerous of a thing, btw. Unless you did something physically wrong while installing the thing, or the heatsink (which would cause the proc to burn even if you didn't overclock it), all you'll have is an unstable system, in which case you bring the speed down until you get your perfect heat and speed balance. Chances are many of these cpu's computer stores refused to take back were indeed bad, and they were using overclocking as an excuse to screw the customer.

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[dr.badass]

Someone that's willing to buy this device seems like they'd also be of the mindset to lie at the return counter if their CPU kills itself early after an Overclocking Session Gone Bad (TM).

I would have modded you down, but I didn't think that that would properly convey my reaction to this statement, which is : fuck you.

How in the hell do you conclude that anyone that wants to overclock is likely to be a liar as well?

I'm typing this on an overclocked system I built years ago -- why did I overclock? Because it saved me about $500 that I might have spent on a faster chip. Not because I'm somehow morally corrupt, or trying to swindle anyone.

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[Dark Lord Seth]

1) The people working the front counters of the computer store hating their jobs due to arguing with customers about whether or not they tried overclocking their CPUs.

Speaking as someone who works in a computer store, it always goes like this when dealing with modded hardware:

1 : Did you ever or has anyone ever physically modified, altered or enhanced the hardware of your system?

Yes. --> You were or should have been aware of the risks. You don't go about messing with valve settings, piston settings or the fuel-mixture of your car, do you? Get lost, warrenty voided.
No. --> Continue to next question.

2 : Did you ever or has anyone ever changed any settings in the BIOS, other then IDE or ACPI settings?

Yes. --> You ought to be aware of the risks of messing with voltages, multipliers and what have ye. Go to hell, warrenty voided.
No. --> Blame Intel or AMD, try to sell an expensive, new CPU.
What the hell is a BIOS? --> Compare BIOS with an STD so people fear it. Then try to sell an expensive, new CPU.
Yes, but I am an overclocker and modder. --> Violently remove customer from store. We don't sell 300 Euro brand-name cases, 500 Euro brand-name PSUs or 750 Euro brand-name water-cooling rigs. Hence why we don't make money on them anyways. (That, and those "Look at my prefab case window mod and 750 Euro water cooling rig that uses an aluminium radiator, copper heatsink and common tapwater!" annoy me.)

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[LordOfYourPants]

"How in the hell do you conclude that anyone that wants to overclock is likely to be a liar as well?"

That is not my conclusion. My conclusion is that someone is going to notice the selling point for this particular adaptor, namely what I quoted with a stress on "The warranty of your processor can be kept alive." And will think they now have a risk-free overclocking experience.

I have NO problems with people that want to overclock and risk burning out their system, as long as they don't ask for a refund the next day. You can overclock it, use it as a paperweight, or use it as a heater in the Winter for all I care.

The example I gave of Joe Smith returning his CPU was in the context of what the original company was pushing, not a general statement of overclockers.

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[Lord Kano]

The results of that? 1) The people working the front counters of the computer store hating their jobs due to arguing with customers about whether or not they tried overclocking their CPUs.

People argue about returning equipment that they fsck up all of the time. When I used to work at Computer City (6 yrs ago), there was a guy who came in just about every month after boogering up his system and argue that he shouldn't have to pay for service, even though he was out of warranty.

2) The prices for these CPUs going up due to the return/exchange rate on them.

Neglible. Overclockers tend to overclock slower and thus cheaper CPUs.

3) Like in the case of some stores with Apex and other high-return brands, they just take a harder stance on people that want a straight exchange of the product.

You get what you pay for, right?

Who wins here? The company selling the adaptor. No one else.

Pardon my French, but WHO THE FUCK ELSE is supposed to win? People (most people) create and market products to make money for themselves. Even new Cancer and AIDS drugs are sold with the express purpose of making money!!!!

LK

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[Grishnakh]

Even if you're accepting the risk of ruining your processor by overclocking it, and are willingly releasing the vendor from warranty obligations, you _are_ morally bankrupt, and are swindling all involved companies by not buying a higher-speed processor to begin with. This is because you're violating the implied contract you made with them to run the CPU at the advertised speed.

I'll bet you're also the type who goes to the bathroom during TV commercials, which violates your contract to watch advertising which pays for TV programming. Hell, you're probably one of those scumbag Tivo users who fast-forwards through the commercials...

Do you have multiple computers at home? You're probably connecting them all to one of those damned routers, instead of paying the ISP more for each computer!

How are companies supposed to survive with people like this around? We need more laws and enforcement to make sure people are using things they purchase only in ways that the manufacturers permit!!

Re:I'm sure retailers will love this.

[alexburke]

So now stores that sell these CPUs now have even less to work with when determining whether John Smith walking into the store asking for a CPU exchange actually had a faulty CPU to begin with or was doing mad l33t overclocking in his basement last night.

As someone that's worked for a computer store, who gives a shit? If there's nothing on the CPU indicating it's been tampered with or abused, then the retailer can make a warranty/DOA claim with their distributor/supplier and won't be left out of pocket, since if there's no way the store can prove the CPU was abused, there's no way the distributor can, either!

Will heatsinks work?

[klui]

Because the chip rests on top of an adaptor, it would make the CPU sit higher. Wouldn't this present a problem with heatsinks? i.e. clamps that may use more force, or not able to reach the attachments.

Re:Will heatsinks work?

[rice_web]

Aarrgh.... just beat me with the same information. Now I'll get redundant and you'll get +5 informative! Damn the Karma Whore system!

Someday I'll exact my revenge.

Re:Will heatsinks work?

[Kris_J]

It probably comes with a longer clip. My Spectra 333 kit did, though a motherboard heatsink thing meant that it didn't get clipped on exactly as recommended.

Re:Will heatsinks work?

[ic3p1ck]

Not just that, but the temperature sensor is typically located under the chip, with this adaptor it probably wont make contact with the CPU anymore.

Heatsinks & Fans

[rice_web]

So what kind of fans and heatsinks are compatible with this? Tom's made the point that the processor sits up higher, and that Upgradeware's heatsinks and fans must be used.

How reliable/good are these heatsinks and fans? And what other companies manufacture compatible heatsinks and fans?

Joyful 403.9 error message

[Anonymous Coward]

The error page is not in English, but Babelfish can help us out with that.

Law? Shows? Identical? Has the too many people deposits and withdraws the Web railroad platform. Line following? Does: * Presses re- trims presses? Or shortly after again? *? www.upgradeware.com head? Then examines you think? Looks for it? HTTP 403.9 - prohibitions deposits and withdrawals: Too many users? Receives? Stands Internet Information Services Technique? (Supplies the technique? Supports the person? Use) * Background: If the Web servo bustles about, also because? Many? Road traffic? Sends? Law? Manages your request? Fresh? * Other? Microsoft Support

sounds like most error messages... confusing in every way...

XP-TMC: Solution to the /. effect?

[GillBates0]

Solving an Old Problem Elegantly: Using the XP-TMC to Deal with the Multiplier Lock

Solving an Old Problem Elegantly: Using the XP-TMC to Deal with the Slashdot Effect.

Apparently the guys at Upgradeware could use one of these

something wrong with your Athalon system?

[SweetAndSourJesus]

I've had an Athalon box running 24/7 for over a year now. No problems at all.

Of course, it's running FreeBSD, so maybe your problems lie, ahem, elsewhere.

Re:something wrong with your Athalon system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it is obvious from your spelling of the word "Athlon" that you are far too intelligent to run Windoze. Let the lower mortals who do not take the liberty of spelling trademarked product names however they see fit run the mainstream garbage, and you 1337 h4x0rz can run your BSDs.

Re:something wrong with your Athalon system?

[NanoGator]

"I've had an Athalon box running 24/7 for over a year now. No problems at all."

"Of course, you wouldn't believe how much I spend a month on refridgerating that thing. Wowsers!"

Re:something wrong with your Athalon system?

[AvengerXP]

Isn't BSD dead or something? Just kidding.

Troll

[tarquin_fim_bim]

Microsoft Support

That's the only bit I could read. Informative though.

Re:Ha!

[DMDx86]

I'm beginning to think the problem with Athlon systems are the chipset drivers..

I have VIA KT133 board that wouldn't last over a day on Windows.. reformated and reinstalled several times and no help..

Now the system runs linux and its been up for over a month. No odd crashes, segfaults, or lockups.

My desktop computer has a nForce 2 chipset.. Totally reliable and not a single system crash.

not quite so

[gl4ss]

you can do most(all) the stuff the adaptor does for the price of few small bits of wire.

the newer, better (and the better older too) mobos have this functionality already built in. with tbred and over you don't need to do any mods to the cpu at all to have it 'unlocked'(you needed the pen trick with athlon).

and from my experience, the odds are that the individual screwing the cpu while overclocking could have screwed it up even without overclocking, that is, the person did something horribly stupid in the first place.

you don't need to overclock to end up with a fried chip because you didn't have the heatsink on, backwards or somehow horribly wrong settings on it.

so nothing new under the sky here, this device doesn't do anything new, or skew the chip prices into any direction(it's sales probably being very very very very marginal and very very very very few of those will on purpose break their chip with it so that they still would manage to get it replaced).

your comment makes it look like everyone using this product would fry their chip, however the loser seems to be the motherboad manufacturers(lose of potential mobo upgrader), no-one else. the winners would be the geeks after few years when they can source semi working computer skeletons and are trying to take most out of them and only happen to have an athlon with wrong settings and for some reason are afraid of the wire-tricks or soldering.

Why bother?

[WIAKywbfatw]

If you've got the money to go out and buy a new 2500+ or faster Athlon then you won't be breaking the bank if you spend a little bit extra and get a new, more suitable motherboard to go with it?

Sure, there are a very few number of people out there (and I mean maybe a handful) who have systems that for whatever reason can't handle a motherboard swapout but, apart for that tiny subset, this isn't worth the effort.

Why go to this much trouble and risk - possibly ruining a brand new CPU in the process - for a small bump in performance when you could swap both parts at once with less hassle and for greater gain?

That old CPU and motherboard doesn't have to go to waste either - find a cheap case for it, put in a minimal amount of memory (assuming you didn't buy some new RAM as part of your upgrade), a cheap NIC and an old hard drive (even a 250MB drive!) and you've got a nice little runner that'll act as a nice firewall/server/whatever. Let's face it, if you're the kind of guy that would upgrade a PC's CPU to squeeze out a few more clock cycles then you're the kind of guy who'll have those kinds of parts lying around doing nothing.

This may seem like a cheap upgrade option but if you fry that new CPU then it'll turn out to be a very expensive one.

Re:Why bother?

[afidel]

Because I can get an Athlon XP 2600+ for $91, but to get a new mobo, 1.5GB of DDR ram, and an AGP 8X video card would be over $400?? My current rig is an Athlon 1.2Ghz with 1.5GB of PC-133 and a Geforce3 Ti, but the ram and video card would not work on most modern motherboards so this would be a cost effective way for me to more than double my cpu power.

Re:Ha!

[suss]

The link is almost as reliable as my Athlon system.

It is? If you're having trouble with the stability of your system, it's most probably either your Power Supply Unit or RAM, don't blame the CPU.

I have an "Athlon System" with good RAM and CPU and it hasn't been down in about 3 years.

I don't see why you got modded up as funny, as it wasn't.

Why get this?

[BaD_HeX]

Most of my overclocking experience has shown me that it costs just about the same to go out and buy new parts. So then why in god's name would you bother buying something like this?

For one I attend lots of various LAN parties. I'm sure others who go will catch a similar situation if they have not.

Bob: "Hey Tom, Nice Box..."
Tom: "Thanks Bob... it's a stock AMD"
Bob: "Yeah, but did you see Vince's Water-cooled rig? I can't believe he got that 2100+ so high"
*Tom walks away in shame*

Re:Why get this?

[kilonad]

I had a chat like that once, only it went something more like this:

Me: "Hey Cindy, nice box!"
Cindy: *smack*

mm, the smell of burning karma

Wrong..

[Stir]

Haven't you heard? The latest craze is UNDER clocking. People with older Athlons are ahead of the curve.

Underclocking Becomes Latest Computer Craze

Re:Wrong..

[Blaskowicz]

Some people indeed underclock their CPU and lower the voltage, in order to cool it with a 5V fan, or get an fanless PC.
Here's the rigs of the creator and webmaster of the most visited french hardware site :P

Re:Wrong..

[Blaskowicz]

LOL.. no one has realized that parent attempted to get +5 funny :D. the site he linked to published "articles" about Microsoft patenting 0 and 1, and other funny crap.

Re:Wrong..

[ejaw5]

Mobo manufacturers: please bring back the 'TURBO' button from the good old 386 days.

Imagine, having a quiet computer idling away at say 500Mhz..more than enough to use email, write up documents, read slashdot. (all while the CPU remains relatively cool) Then, when you want to play Quake III or compile a Linux kernel, hit the TURBO on for 2000Mhz.

Strange

[autopr0n]

Actually when I upgraded from my socket-7 mobo to my Abit Kt7 RAID my uptime in windows 98 went from about 12-24 hours to a solid week. I was amazed. The old k6 system crashed all the time. With win2k I routinely get uptimes of several weeks, and almost always the reason for the reboot is due something other then a whole crash (like my sound drivers or explorer or whatever will get 'weird').

And I've got cheap-ass ram in here to boot. I've been pretty impressed with the reliability so far.

I do wonder though if this adaptor will cause any problems. For one, the thermal sensor will no longer be in contact with the actual device, and for another the pin lengths will be longer. Could cause some problems...

Re:Strange

[peragrin]

actually, it could be any number of things, I had a creative 5.1 sound card in my athlon 550 the whole machine would radomely lock up when palying opengl games.(quake 3) : I got pissed at it one day, and installed win2k. everything worked great for a month then the network card disappeared. I turned the machine into a screensaver, running win 98 and removed the sound card, no more lock ups, and I could still play quake ( no sound) all I wanted. Now it is a Linux server, with a generic ess sound card and it works great. don't play games on it, but I am sending this through it while playing games on me P4.

Re:Strange

[antiMStroll]

I have a KT-7 and KT-7a RAID boards and they're incredibly sensitive to RAM, especially running memory interleave or any other BIOS speed option. Additional major factors: BIOS firmware versions and PCI card placement (the board shares slot IRQs with some of the embedded devices). Work out the details though and they're very solid. From the KT-7 now doing doing duty as a FreeBSD server:

amd700# uptime 7:28PM up 23 days, 23:10, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

It was shut down to rewire the rack. It's never gone down on its own. (Yeah, I know. Not the most strenuous load.)

Re:Strange

[Jellybob]

Can I suggest getting a better graphics card if you have time to read Slashdot between frames?

Oh no!

[autopr0n]

Not only that, but I've heard that deviant overclockers may have access to patented ERASER(TM) technology. This technology allows pencil marks to be erased from various surfaces. With ERASER(TM) speed-freak hooligans can remove any evidence of tampering with the electrical contacts on their AMD(TM) Athlon(TM) Processors(TM).

Clearly these things should be illegal under the DMCA. Claims that Erasers have significant other functions are all lies.

Your Pending Lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Greetings,

I represent the CIAA (CPU Industry Association of America) and wish to inform you that you are to cease all overclocking immediately. As you may be aware, under the DMCA (Digital Millennium Clockcycles Act) when you purchase a CPU, you are merely purchasing silicon with a license to use it for X number of MHz. Exceeding this number is STEALING MHz from poor engineers.

Furthermore, multi-tasking OSes have been determined to be 'CPU piracy' becuase it allows multiple programs to share the CPU. As 'sharing' has been determined to mean 'stealing' you will have to have a seperate CPU for each process you wish to run concurrently.

Thank you, and please continue to buy our products or we will be forced to sue again.

2600+ isn't a Barton chip...

[WIAKywbfatw]

An Athlon XP 2600+ isn't a Barton core chip, it's a Thoroughbred "B" chip.

The Barton core chips are:

Barton 3200+ (2.250GHz, 512KB cache);
Barton 3000+ (2.167GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2800+ (2.083GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2500+ (1.833GHz, 512KB L2 cache).

The top Thorougbred core chips are:

Thoroughbred 2800+ (2.250GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2700+ (2.167GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2600+ (2.083GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2400+ (2.000GHz, 256KB L2 cache).

Note the increased L2 cache size on the Barton, which AMD cite as the reason for the 200-300 point rise in their performance rating for those chips (eg, Barton 2.167 GHz = Thoroughbred 2.167GHz + 300). Obviously, the latest FSB bump introduced with the Barton family helps too.

In some situations a Thoroughbred 2800+ will outpace a Barton 3000+ because of it's greater clock speed but, in most cases, the Barton with its greater L2 cache will win out.

Anyhow, given this story is about "overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU", I thought it prudent to point out your incorrect assumption about the XP 2600+ chip.

In all likelyhood, you probably wouldn't need any sort of adapter to fit a Thoroughbred chip to most older Athlon motherboards - I know that I could swap the 1.2GHz CPU in my machine for a 2800+ with no hassle but wouldn't be able to do the same with a 3200+, or even a 2500+.

But if you're really going to skip the 2800+ for the 3000+ or 3200+, then you're paying 50 percent or 110 percent more for your CPU in the first place. And if you're doing that, then you might as well be buying a new motherboard.

Re:Slashdotted, but...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

My point is that, instead of sending a HTML page (possibly in another language) when an HTTP error is generated, it would be better if the server simply returned the HTTP error, and let the browser decide how to present it to the user. This removes the language barrier.

It was perhaps unfair of me to present this as strictly an IIS problem, because it is also possible to present custom error messages in Apache (and probably other web servers as well). The reason IIS deserves bashing here, is that it's default behavior is to send custom error messages instead of standard HTTP error codes. Apache will send standard HTTP errors by default. In my opinion this is the correct behavior.

torn about the value of this thing.

[atarione]

It's kinda kewl that this adapter might squeak out some more life for a kt133 system (since millions of computer bits are winding up in landfills or 'recycled' often dangerously in the 3rd world or whatnot. but otoh a new nf2 mb can be had for $100, how much does this thing cost? cause if it is $40 or so plus, I'd be temped to just get a new board and add the old board to my 'bone pile' or ebay it. granted I might have to buy new ram to ... but a new nf2 board would crush one of these adapters running on a kt133 board.

This article is, like, so 90's

[UnknowingFool]

Although some may find the need to overclock their processors like they did back in the 90's, I don't see much need for it these days. Sure, you can get an extra 10% more speed or so, but most applications don't really need the speed boost that they once did. Plus you risk damaging your computer. Remember those Athlons have the heat potential of nuclear reactors. Fooling around with their seating and heat sinks may cost you. While you can still find older motherboards and processors to replace your system, it isn't worth the trouble of scouring your city or ebay for them. In the end, it's far easier to replace your chip and board than try to overclock.

check this out - magic?

[intelligent poster]

Go to babelfish, and paste in the URL where you get the error message (its here) . Choose Japanese to English and hit translate. Presto, you get the article (complete with pics even). Is this some kind of sinister tie up between upgradeware and altavista to draw traffic to them? Food for thought. And as an aside, I would like to know why that is happening, because I am unable to figure it out.

Re:Ha!

[drinkypoo]

I have three PCs utilizing various athlon processors - Two slotted athlons, one of which is a classic and the other of which is a tbird, and one athlon xp. The XP has a $7 cheap-ass 250W power supply and still manages to be quite stable (most of the time, heh heh - I run a lot of random crap on it though, like 20 things in my system tray) even though it has one disk and two optical drives, plus a high speed fan up front. ALL of these machines have relatively cheap ram in them also.

I have come to the conclusion over the years that the most important aspect in computer stability is the motherboard, and often the problems are driver-related. For instance, I used to have a VIA-chipset athlon thunderbird. That machine was horribly unstable when I got it. By the time I got rid of it VIA had updated the assorted chipset drivers and everything worked great.

My XP has the SiS 745 chipset, and yet it is quite stable (and speedy.) However it does have a gig of more or less brand name ram. One stick is kbyte, and I forget what the other is. Makes a big difference.

The Power Macintosh G3 I'm sitting at now (Can't play games on it or do any real content creation but Mac OS X is winning me over quickly) has 512MB of cheap-ass bargain-basement PC100 in it - actually, 128MB of it is PC133. I've only had it up and running for three days, but it doesn't crash or exhibit any strange behavior at all. While comparing Apples to PCs is generally a silly comparison to make (because of the zealotry it inspires) my point is that it's a good, stable system with a well-manufactured and designed motherboard, using high quality components. (The IDE chipset, for example, is found in many other Unix workstations, such as those from Sun.) The Power Supply is a valid issue if you are not getting enough juice to run everything, and the ram is important, but the motherboard is crucial.

Re:Ha!

[ic3p1ck]

I wouldn't touch a VIA chipset! Utter crap. I have an old motherboard KT133 which I was thinking of using in my Linux fileserver, but I remembered how much trouble I had with it in Windows.

The problem is the PCI implementation is flawed (to put it mildly) and especially since my fileserver on an old Intel 440BX runs a software raid array with 3 IDE controllers (including onboard), we're talking serious PCI usage here. Definately NOT a job for VIA.

My desktop (windows) is running an nForce2 and its rock solid.

So remember: VIA? JUST SAY NO!

Re:Ha!

[NanoGator]

"It is? If you're having trouble with the stability of your system, it's most probably either your Power Supply Unit or RAM, don't blame the CPU."

Though I can support your stability claim, I learned a lesson about cooling those things. When I lived in my centrally air conditioned apartment, my athlon worked great. When I moved into an apartment that was considerably warmer, I started seeing instabilities plus the bios would scream at me to shut it down.

The truth of the matter is that the CPU can be blamed, particularly if the environment exceeds its configuration. I suppose one could blame the user, but then again, if there's already a fan on it what do they do?

My dual athlon at work has impressive uptimes, even with Win2k, but darned if it doesn't sound like I work in an airport runway. *Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*

Re:Ha!

[Michael Hunt]

I'll second that... I've got a dodgy-ass Gigabyte KT266 board with an XP2100+ on it, and it's rock solid in Slackware 9 and 2000 Pro.

The weird part is it's running off a really old AOpen 230W ATX PSU, which I would think was massively under-spec considering the box has got a Geforce 5600 Ultra, 1.5 Gig of DDR2100, 2 SCSI cards, 2 burners, and a Seagate SX44..... 'Elite' (47 gig double height USCSI disk, eats about 50W on its own....).

This box has NEVER crashed on me, except when I booted a 2.5.something kernel and it didn't like the GART driver (I think.)

Athlon instability is either a myth or due to bad luck.

A box?

[dmaxwell]

'Your computer is a "box"'.

Uh....no. A "box" is something else entirely and I have severe doubts that 90% of the guys posting here will ever see one in person. While we're at it, a "rig" is not a modified "box". A "rig" is a piece of equipment that same 90% of Slashdotters will have no real use for except self-pleasure. Well, I suppose a "rig" can be a computer after all.

Overclocking the "old" Athlon?

[CrazyWingman]

Am I the only one who considers the "old" Athlon to be the "Athlon" (i.e. not the Athlon XP/MP)? Geez - I was all excited to maybe boost my 700Mhz proc a bit, but alas, no.
...still thinking about making a mini (albeit mostly useless) beowulf out of the four SPARCstations I have sitting on my shelf...
:)

Using Old Hardware and Loving It

Fan RPM throttling

[DigiShaman]

Get an AOpen board. The newer ones throttle the speed of the CPU and case fan based on the temp.