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Quakeworld Physics Captured in Quake3
Rooked_One writes "For people, that to this day, swear by the quakeworld physics where you could "bunnyhop" through huge maps in a matter of seconds, but were lured away by better graphics, your day has come. Fortress Evolution has been announced with a couple of groovy little movies to drool over until they have a release. Many of you will remember Quake Team Fortress, well, this mod for Quake3 is made by players primarily of Mega Team Fortress, which i'm sure some of you will remember in poor regards. But we won't get into that. What is needed to know is that you will be able to play QW in the quake3 engine."
I made an operation iraqi freedom mod for quake 3. Jessica Lynch gets stabbed and shot, but then still manages to fight on. Your job is to finish her off!
Mentioning Physics and Quake just gave me a mental image of Postal Workers on Segway's, riding around with Machine Guns shooting at each other.
Err...for a game of course!
I don't have squat for outbound bandwidth, but I have the movies. Anyone want them for a torrent?
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
a couple of groovy little movies to drool over until they have a release.
this counts as news ? a few renderings does not a game make
if you want mods for Quake see fileplanet for mods you can actually download, not some kids dreams
It has better-than-QW physics, complete with bunnyhopping, doublejumping, and MANY, MANY more tweaks and gameplay improvements.
By far the most skilled form of FPS gaming available to date. Quite a nice competitive community.
Promode for Q3.
there already is a simulation of quakeworld physics
it's called CPMA (challenge promode arena)
and i used to play it a lot. it's pretty fun. it's not 100% faithful, but it's super fast with insane air control.
For me, it's not whether either game is 'better'. Lets not squabble about which game has better game play.
/. quota of nerdiness, I imagine 20% of the reason I failed out of university was this game. (The other 80% was just how much I hated elec engineering.)
I am excited cause I started gaming with qw team fortress, and I'll be damned if moments of team fortress wern't downright euphoric. Q3 Rocket Arena is fun enough for me to play daily (I know, its sad), but if this mod delivers as promised, holy mother of god thank the lord, etc. You just can't replace the games you cut your teeth on.
And to meet my
"Old man yells at systemd"
I'm not sure keeping bunnyhopping would be such a great idea. I remember playing tf before bunnyhopping became the norm and it was really fun. Various classes working together was required to win a match.
When the source was released cheating became prevalent. Lots of people left the game in search of newer, better games without the various cheaters. Bunnyhopping became a big thing and extended the life of the game. It was a new tactice and made the game interesting again.
The problem is bhopping messed up the class balance completely. Any class could run as fast as scouts. A HWGuy running faster than a medic defeats the purpose of having different movement speeds.
Check out http://www.q3f.com This was done by the same group that went on to form Splashdamage, and make Enemey Territory (an awesome expansion to Wolfenstein multi-player, available for free) It's a faithful re-creation with a lot of excellent improvements. It even has a limited form of bunny-hopping... not that I think intentionally putting a bug back into a game is a great idea, but at least they did it in a controlled way...
Ah, the days of changing Quake physics.
One of the major things I focused on in new QuakeWorld releases was getting the physics to match the original NetQuake as close as possible. I pretty much succeeded in the later versions of Quakeworld. As people probably remember, QW's initial physics model was quite messed up compared to the original Quake. The bunny-hopping, ramp acceleration jumping and fast in-air decceleration were all features of the original Quake physics.
The idea of bringing QuakeWorld to match NetQuake physics was because those were what the original maps were built and designed with. It's also what players were acustomed to.
I wonder how many people remember my attempt to bring NetQuake physics to Quake2. Quake2's initial model was very simple. In my 3.15 Quake2 patch, I tired to add air decceleration and other features of Quake's physics to the engine (because players wanted them, hell I wanted them since I played the game all the damn time). I had to pull them out in 3.16 and restore the original Quake2 physics because of fears I may break the original maps that came with the game.
Quake3 was a mix of both physics models from the mind of Carmack. I think it was a good mix and felt pretty good. Probably should have fixed bunny hopping, however. I feel bunny-hopping was the worst thing to happen to Quake. Quake is about running and killing people, not bouncing everywhere.
/// Zoid.
You can bunnyhop just fine in Quake III Arena.
Why did these people think adding that into the new code was a good idea? It ruins the game and should be banned. Period.
As I see it, part of the fun of TF is the balance the mod strived to achieve with the classes. The goal of the design was to level the classes by mixing the power and operation of the weapons in relation to the speed of each class. Scouts were weak but had blazing quickness, while heavyweapons guys had the most powerful weapon in the game (yes, I'm ignoring the sniper rifle in snipe mode), but became tanks with their slowness. Bunnyhopping ruins this equilibrium.
It used to be fun trying to get a hwguy across the bridge. Now some asshole hops his way all over the map using the hwguy as a scout. The class given the strongest weapon in TF now can move just as fast as the quickest class.
So maybe, perhaps, it isn't technically "cheating" because hopping is the result of a bug in the code. The letter of the law may not be in violation, but the spirit clearly is.
Don't be a lamer. Stop the hop.
mr.nobody
--Don't you wanna go where nobody knows your name?
I liked to play medic. In the begining I would run (wall slide) every where. But as time progressed so many new tricks where learned. When I would spawn, I'd run up the stairs and prime a hand grenade or conc and jump from the one base all the across to the sniper deck on the other side and waste the snipers with the nail gun or hack em with the medic axe. It was cool to see the evolution of game.
Then sadly, the number of cheaters started to increase as did the number of Mega servers (gag) and of course as it grew the fun factor of a small tight community started to slip away. Sigh, fun times playing TF
My right MB was prime HG on first click, toss on second
Go >V< !!
- vphl
If you have Q3 and are looking for a good place to start, try the Promode demos from Daler (who is in France right now competing), krg (finland), or old-skool QW legend FienD. Warning though - watch one of these demos and your jaw may hit the floor, and you'll definitely be watching 10 more before you can stop.
And kudos to my Aussie bud Hoony, who has been sheperding this mod for 4 years now...
There is no other game similar to MegaTF/RegTF for quakeworld out there, there has been remakes such as Q3F2 and TFC, but they've failed in the ways of physics. It's fast (bunny hopping), instead of holding forward, moving and aiming, you have to keep your speed up as you go, gaining speed off ramps, jumping at the right times to gain even more speed, while trying to launch someone in the air and nail him repeatedly up aganist the wall with rockets and make him land on your grenade, damaging him with combos repeatedly and fast as possible before he does any real damage to you. There's just no other game like it. Bunny hopping is not cheating if every single person can do it and it's easy to learn.
These games have turned into pure cheat.
Things were already ver bad when skilled guys could beat dudes with brains -- but hey, it was cool just playing for showing masterful tactics or strategies, even if losing.
Today, there isnt even the option of losing: either you get sniped if you _think_ about their flag, you cannot get even near a cyborg-like jumping bunny or, the wrost of all, they team up with cheats to prevent your team from ever leaving respawn.
Many years ago, I decided to adopt some ethical guidelines, for I loved the game and wanted to have real decent fun. One of them was always siding with the losing team. Thus, I could try to motivate them, help them to change the score or then just get a piece of the action.
This is no longer possible. Effectively, were just playing against robots. Its no longer funny. I could team with some friends and play at LAN houses; the idea of playing online with strangers is lost forever, in my view...
Have they removed the copy protection from Quake 3 yet?
No, not the "check the CD in the drive" copy protection. That was removed years ago. I'm talking about the copy protection that sends your "authorization" key to your_papers_please.idsoftware.com (note: may not be actual site name).
I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mr. Carmack and all he has done, but there is no way I'm going to support this kind of unjustifiable waste of engineering and network resources (how much does it cost to run those servers each year?), the invasion of privacy (when I play the game, and with whom, is no one's business but my own), or the outright insult to my character to presume I'd be playing with an unsanctioned copy. (Unsanctioned copies? In this age of viruses and spyware? Are you out of your mind?)
Copy protection in any form should not be tolerated, much less supported. So, until I hear that the client authentication requirement is gone -- not merely disabled, not made optional, gone -- my money shall remain firmly in my pocket. Yours should, too.
Schwab
P.S: Mind you, once it's confirmed client authentication is gone, I'll be off to buy a copy at Fry's so fast, you'll see a red-shift on my butt.
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Ok, there is a difference between what a Quakeworld person means by "bunnyhopping" and what a Quake 3 player means.
In Quakeworld, people use the term "bunnyhopping", when in fact they are referring to an acrobatic trick known as accel running. Basically it combines two physics bugs as follows:
Accel running = BunnyHopping + StrafeTurning
Bunnyhopping in Quakeworld doesn't give you any extra speed. It just allows you to move without friction. So if you do a horizontal rocket jump and then repeatidly bunnyhop, you will keep the full speed of the horizontal rocket jump as you run.
Strafe turning is something that is done while you are in the air. For example, you can hold left strafe while at the same time you smoothly turn your view to the left. This causes your movement speed to increase, even past the server max speed of 320 units per second.
So accel running combines both. Bunnyhopping to keep speed and strafe turning to gain speed. An accel runner often starts a run off by using a horizontal rocket jump to knock their speed up to around 700 (remember, 320 is the normal max running speed). Then they bunnyhop and between hops, when in the air, they alternate strafe turns with jumps inbetween, left, jump, right, jump, etc...
It takes lots of skill to do correctly, unlike Quake2 and Quake3 bunnyhopping. However, the benefit is that there is no theoretical limit to your speed. If you are good enough, you can move faster than the fastest projectiles in the game. You can out run rockets and bullets. Kind of like the agents in The Matrix.
The drawback is that you make allot of noise when doing it. In the other Quakes, you make noise no matter what, when you run, but in Quakeworld you can run at full speed without making a noise. Accel running, however, makes a hell of a lot of noise, so you lose the stealth advantage. So players don't always use it. Its just another skill used in deathmatch.
I see many posts by people that haven't played Quakeworld recently. They don't truely understand what players can do, physics wise, in Quakeworld deathmatch. They confuse bunnyhopping in Quakeworld with bunnying in Quake 3. They are two different beasts. Check out this post for more info
Let me make a few other recommendations for those who haven't played in a while, or to those that have never played this wonderful FPS game.
For Quake's first couple years of life, players enjoyed the game and basically learned a few physics tricks: rocket jumping, wall running, etc... but after roughly 3 years since its release, some new acrobatic tricks were discovered that completely changed how Quake is now played.
Quake has now become something that not only requires great aim and strategy, but also great acrobatic skill.
If you want a taste of what I am talking about, download the Frags Done Extreme and Def Dag Extreme videos. They suffer from an overuse of slow motion, but thats because most of these acrobatic tricks require such great speed, that they are hard to see in full speed. Also note, when watching these videos, that low gravity or other such things are not used. The people in the video are simply moving incredibly fast, and the video is played in incredibly slow motion.
So when the players look like they are flying, it is because they really know how to move, not because of low gravity.
Trust me, if you have ever played Quake, but not played in a long time, those videos will blow your mind! THATS REAL DEATHMATCH BABY!
For those that are interested in playing Quakeworld, note that it is opensource and runs on all of the major PC platforms, such as Windows and Linux. I recommend the FuhQuake client. Though the game engine is opensource, the art content such as levels, models, sounds, and textures are still copyrighted by Id Software.
So if you want to play, you will need to pay around $10 for a bargin bin copy of the game. Install it, and then install FuhQuake over it.
Finally, the question that I have is, if all you want is Quakeworld, then why not play Quakeworld? It is cheaper than Quake 3, opensource, and Quakeworld has lower system requirements.
People still play Chess after hundreds of years. The game gets better with time, as players learn new ways of playing. Should we give up Chess for newer shinier versions with better graphics and sound? Nah, just play the game if its fun. Stop wasting your money on more of the same.
In quake3, you can also do this. Look up "strafejumping" and "circlejumping" , you'll find plenty of references to it.
You don't notice it in q3a as much because, well, the maps are smaller, and already fast paced, and there aren't as many places in the stock maps where it's really useful. In some mods, like Urban Terror, it's a godsend.
You "bunnyhop" as you call it, and strafe.. and also turn a bit during each hop.. once you get the feel of it, you can fly after 2 or 3 hops. Fire up urban terror, then go find some of the Urban Terror "Jump" videos that were done.. you'll see people making manoevers that, although difficult to perform, and require lots of practice, will drop your jaw.
The effect is not enough that you can outrun weapons... but it is pronounced enough that, if we had a race, and you don't have the hang of it, I can blow you away with ease. Two hops and I'm just plain gone.
Combined with other weapons and mods and falling and whatnot, like if you hit it off of an already accelerated motions, the effect is that much more pronounced.
The effect is not gone at all, it still exists in the q3 engine.