Xbox Hackers, Linux, the DMCA, And Modchips

HardcoreGamer writes "The New York Times has a long article on Xbox hacking, why Microsoft hates it, and who does it (Google). 'Xbox hackers are exploiting Microsoft's business model, which is to sell Xbox hardware at a loss...' but Microsoft doesn't make the money back on software -- as it planned to -- if you decide to load up Xbox Linux. Where else can you get a PIII-733 with graphics and audio for $180? The reporter talked to the IDSA; Andrew Huang, author of 'Hacking the Xbox: An Introduction to Reverse Engineering'; a Manhattan exec who hacked his Xbox and said 'The reality is that if you could bypass Microsoft's operating system you would end up with a fairly powerful computer for less than $200;' and others. The article discusses the DMCA, modchips, the Xbox Linux Project and lots more. A good -- if long -- read. A shorter version of the story is at the International Herald Tribune. Best quote? 'Microsoft is a company passionate about innovation and creativity. We are also very committed to respect for others' intellectual property and we request the same respect applied to our innovations.'"

Comments

Respect ?

[theefer]

Since when is this word part of the capitalist vocabulary ? Doesn't seem to consistant with the ongoing lawsuits, FUD wars, hypocrisy, etc.

Exploiting other company's business model flaws is the basis of the world economy, so let's not be stupid, if they don't want flaws to be exploited, they've better not have flaws in the first place. Too bad, it's too late now.

Re:Respect ?

[gilesjuk]

It did make sense until the arrival of the internet.

Once a console's copy protection has been busted and the method is easy, then it's game over. See Dreamcast for an example of that.

Re:Respect ?

[Waffle Iron]

don't think this is some new business strategy that MS through the years, this is standard practice, and it works for gaming systems (otherwise all of the gaming companies would be out of business by now)

The main difference is that older gaming systems had hardware that was either an underpowered toy, or totally incompatible with any software, or both. It was intrinsically useless for most other purposes.

Microsoft may have made a mistake by boxing up a standard PC that can run off-the-shelf software, selling it below cost, and then trying to lock it up with a flimsy electronic scheme. I realize that they were trying to leverage PC game software for their platform, but there are downsides to that approach that they have to live with now.

Re:Respect ?

[Maul]

At launch (and up until recently IIRC), Sony WAS selling the PS2 at a loss.

The difference is that the PS2 has sold more games.

I don't personally believe that the PS2 has the _best_ game lineup, but it seems to be the most popular.

Selling the console at a loss is OK if you end up on top of game sales.

Re:Respect ?

[Mathonwy]

let's just say that the odds of the XBox making them money is quite low.

Ahh, but there's the trick. It doesn't HAVE to make them money right now. This is microsoft we're talking about. They can afford to take a hit. (Heck, if they wanted to, they could probably afford to just GIVE every household in the united states an XBox) Making money would be nice for them right now, but that's more of a side bonus. The main thing they need to do is cost their competitors (Sony/nintendo/etc) market share. Even if they have to sell at a loss for a while to do that, they can probably afford to. And having a complete monopoly on household gaming would almost certainly be worth that kind of investment....

Not Completely Valid

[grimani]

I think the P3-733 for 180 comparison is not completely valid.

The XBox is not really extensible like a regular PC. How many PCI slots do you have? How many USB/FireWire ports? As a console, many 'regular' features unnecessary for a console that we take for granted are not included.

This kinda limits the usefulness of the XBox.

It's kinda like those deals on the Dell server machines you can get with some creative configuration and coupon applications.

Sure, you get for $300 a full powered server machine...but it has no AGP slot. So much for gaming...

Are there updated drivers for the XBox video card available at all?

Huh?

[Realistic_Dragon]

I thought that the XBox selling costs covered variable costs (ie the parts in the box), and so even if it doesn't entirley cover the fixed costs (ie the factory) at low volume it will do eventually when enough units have been shipped has been reached?

If this is the case then XBox Linux helps MS by raising the volumes (not to mention giving them better sales figures to lie about to their game makers).

If of course they are selling below variable cost then well, count me in for loads of the things - I have no problems attempting to bankrupt the swine who injected cash into SCO to prolong their litigation.

Creativity?

[DragonMagic]

So...

They're all for innovation and creativity... but you should respect their own...

Yet you can't innovate or create new items with their hardware that you PURCHASE, because they won't respect YOUR innovation and creativity.

Sounds like they want their cake and to eat it, too.

Limited RAM

[gilesjuk]

64MB is a problem too, yes you can solder on another 64MB if you're skilled enough. But that's a lowly amount of RAM by modern standards.

Re:fairly powerful computer for less than $200

[garcia]

Don't troll.

The fact of the matter is that an XBox has
TV-out and excellent graphics and sound cababilities.

Walmart machines do not.

People want to use the XBox as a multimedia center for their living room. A quote from another article related to this one (I refuse to read NYT) said something along the lines of, "the XBox looks excellent next to a TV in your living room, it's more silent than a typical PC, and its small form-factor make it perfect. Not exactly what Bill Gates had envisioned."

whatever, it is for the ability to say you did it

[AssFace]

To claim that they are doing it for price is a bit off. The people do it so that they can feel in some way they have gotten away with something. They are told that they shouldn't, then they do, and they gain bragging rights. They gain a tiny amount of control in a world that has little of it for the average perosn - they are briefly a David to the Goliath of Microsoft. The money isn't an issue.

True, to get a PIII 733, a NVidia graphics card, etc etc for $200 is a good deal at first glance I suppose.
Were I in the States, I could go to pricewatch and order me up some parts.
PIII 733 by itself is $67, you figure you still need a motherboard and case, that is easily another $80 at least, and then you need the graphics card...

But looking again, you can get a PIII 1G and the motherboard as a combo for $65.
You can get a case for about $30. You can get the video card for about $80.
So a better system for cheaper... and the thing is, that is only if you are still looking for the PIII, if you stepped up to an Athlon XP, you would then get far more processing power, and you would only be spending a little more.

Granted, that doesn't help you if you have no clue how to put together a system, and you only have $200... but I have a feeling the type of person willing to hack a perfectly good game system, and then run Linux on it, is going to be able to put together a computer system on their own.

In the end, I think the monetary reasons for hacking are non-existant, aside from those bad at math.
It is the fun factor and the thumb-your-nose-at-MS factor.

Why hassle with an XBox?

[Greyjack]

If all you want is a cheap PC, just get this instead. Useable PC for $200, including keyboard, mouse, & speakers. Hell, they'll even ship you one with Linux (Lycoris) on it for the same price.

Granted, it doesn't quite have the same graphics horsepower, but hey, it's cheap!

Reality Czech

[Asprin]

They are requesting respect for their innovations, huh?

IIRC, the whole idea was to take existing off-the-shelf PC parts that used an existing PC architecture and put them in a box that could easily mass produced with a very short time-to-market and an OS that allowed existing developers to leverage their existing skills.

Hmmm... That sounds familiar... now where have I heard that before?

Oh, of course! That's what made BG a gazillionaire in the first place!

I'm not against MS wanting to control a closed platform they developed, but I am insulted by their insistance that this is an IP issue. It's not an IP issue, it's a PP (physical property) issue. If they don't like people voiding the warranties on their hardware, they should have made their CDs spin backwards like Nintendo.

Form Factor

[nurb432]

its a bit more then 'because I can'.

The Xbox is designed to 'fit in' to the entertainment center..

Getting a pc small enough to 'fit in' would cost more then the average white box..

And if its JUST for use for video/dvd.. why bother with building something that sticks out like a sore thumb anyway

Re:*sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, build me a $180 computer.

It must have at least:
733MHz PIII
5.1 channel surround sound audio
GeForce 3 graphics
64 MB RAM
8/10 GB HD
4 USB ports
TV out and support for HDTV
Ethernet jack
DVD-ROM
1 controller
2 games

I'll ignore the other parts of a computer (such as the power supply) as I'm sure you'll factor those into your equation.

Now, assuming you can find a machine with all of those components for $180, let me know how well it plays games, DVDs, etc. Will it play games with the graphical qualities of Halo, JSRF, or Brute Force? Will I be able to hear such games in 5.1 surround sound? Can I watch DVDs on this machine with my HDTV (after some hacks to enable progressive-scan)? Will the machine be able to pump out DTS surround signals to my reciever like the XBOX can?

I'm not saying you can't build a decent media computer for cheap, but I hardly think you should discount the power and capabilities (both before and after hacking) of the XBOX.

Re:heh

[Anonymous Coward]

"We are also very committed to respect for others' intellectual property and we request the same respect applied to our innovations.'" Yea, we've seen some _Very_ good examples of that in the past...

I am wondering what they think is so innovative about the X-Box? It's just a PC with chip developed by Intel, a motherboard and graphics processor developed by NVidia and piss-poor security developed by god-knows-who. It is the cheapest possible way for them to get into the market. I honestly can't think of a single thing they've done that could be labelled "innovative".

MS better respect my fair use rights then.

[Blackknight]

I will respect their IP rights. I don't pirate MS software or anybody's else's software.

However, MS has to respect that once you buy something, you have the right to do whatever you want with it. If I want to buy an Xbox and use it as a door stop, that's my right.

Bah not really true

[jidar]

The majority of Xbox linux users -also- buy Xbox software. I know that's how I do it. Splinter Cell and Halo are awesome.. so is Linux.
The way I see it, I'm just a legitimate customer who found some uses for his hardware in addition to what the manufacturer intended.

A gigaPC for the same price

[Anonymous Coward]

"Where else can you get a PIII-733 with graphics and audio for $180?"

Damn, I can do better with PriceWatch:

$64 Soyo M7IWM/L Motherboard, Celeron 1GHz CPU
$56 MGS Powered by ATI RADEON 7500 128MB SDRAM
w/TV-Out+DVI AGP 4X/2X
$20 MID ATX Turbo CASE W/ 230W ATX POWER SUPPLY
---
$130

Now add this $32 hotswapable 20 gig HD I found at HTC Net Store and for about the same price, you get a hard drive.

Now, out of the U.S., this will be hard to do, but if you live in the Imperial Homeland, the argument that modding your XBox is cheaper than building your own PC does not fry.

Note: I did not include links for two reasons: 1) every changes so fast, they would probably dead or misleading by the time you read this and 2), I ain't a sales person. Do your own searching.

Re:MS Needs To Use Their Engineers, Not Lawyers

[Laur]

Interesting? Informative? No, how about incorrect.

Selling of modded X-Boxes is clearly an abuse of Microsoft's Trademark.

So if I put a new engine in my Ford truck and sell it I'm violating Ford's trademark? No. Building your own game console and calling it an XBox would violate Microsoft's trademark. Selling a used item, in original condition or no, does not in any way violate the original manufacture's trademark.

Modding the X-Box to bypass game security is clearly a violation of the DMCA. Even if you are running unauthorized third-party games rather than illegal copies, you are still using Microsoft's Intellectual Property contrary to the software lisence that was granted with the sale of the unit.

You do know that there are several boot ROMs for the XBox which use no Microsoft code whatsoever don't you? Also, the latest hack doesn't ever require flashing your ROM, just using a special font file. Running pirated games is certainly illegal. Running 3rd party games or Linux should not be. Is using these hacks in violation of the DMCA? Maybe, maybe not. That is for the courts to decide, not you or me. BTW, I know of no software license you agree to when purchasing an XBox. Microsoft's Xbox firmare is covered under copyright law, not licensing. You are correct that using this code in another boot ROM is illegal, but under copyright law, not DMCA.