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Funding for TIA All But Dead

Posted by simoniker on from the cutbacks-not-all-bad dept.

Shackleford writes "Wired has an article saying that the Terrorism Information Awareness program, which would troll Americans' personal records to find terrorists before they strike, may soon face the same fate Congress meted out to John Ashcroft in his attempt to create a corps of volunteer domestic spies: death by legislation. The Senate's $368 billion version of the 2004 defense appropriations bill, released from committee to the full Senate on Wednesday, contains a provision that would deny all funds to, and thus would effectively kill, the Terrorism Information Awareness program, formerly known as Total Information Awareness. TIA's projected budget for 2004 is $169 million."

10 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. Long Road Ahead by dtolton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least they are putting some strong language into this version of
    the bill "No funds appropriated or otherwise made available to the
    Department of Defense ... or to any other department, agency or
    element of the Federal Government, may be obligated or expended on
    research and development on the Terrorism Information Awareness
    program."

    If the full senate doesn't approve this bill, the entire issue is
    pretty much stillborn. Assuming they approve it though, there are
    still several more steps for it to go through.

    The main concern at this point is what happens when the bill goes to
    committee. This process has always held concerns for me, but it
    worries me that whether or not the defunding stays in the bill or not
    is so dependant on one person. "The defunding has a chance of
    surviving committee " Schwartz says "If Stevens is behind it, then it
    almost certainly will happen.". I would have felt more comfortable if
    he had said "It will almost certainly succeed."

    Let's just hope he's behind defunding it. Removing the defunding
    would completely remove the teeth from this bill IMO.

    I also didn't see any comments from President Bush. As I understand
    it, he is supportive of the TIA. Will he sign a bill that is going to
    kill one of his pet projects? Again, let's hope so.

    There are still a lot of steps for this bill to go through before it
    becomes law. Progress is being made, but let your senator know that
    you are against TIA, and maybe this bill will make it.

    --

    Doug Tolton

    "The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
  2. well... by ed.han · · Score: 5, Interesting

    except i have one question: what if they simply rename the darned thing? it's only $169 million: in beltway terms, this isn't a whole lot of money.

    what worries me is that this could sneak into some other omnibus legislation through a rider under a different and more innocuous name, under a last-minute change to another bill before congress.

    i fear this may become a senatorial shell-game.

    ed

    1. Re:well... by TopShelf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Even sneakier, development on this could be pursued by a private agency, betting on the commercial prospects once it has been proven out.

      Imagine the value of a centralized database that gathers together just public information about people, let alone private. Basically, it would become an automated mini-private eye service, which could mined for all sorts of useful information.

      Just because this might not survive the Congress doesn't mean the idea won't be pursued...

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    2. Re:well... by 2short · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "The top level super secret shit is called 'black projects'".

      People call various levels of secret things "black projects", particularly in the movies. I'm willing to bet that "top level super secret shit" is called a variety of things, and you don't know any of them.

      "Funding for black projects doesn't come through washington, and isn't controlled by congress."

      Then it doesn't come from tax dollars, and I don't care.

      "Nobody knows *where* the funding for a black projects come from, but there is a ton of it."

      Maybe it comes from magic elves! Of course someone knows where it comes from. Several someones in congress know where it comes from because they approve it. Just because they don't tell you doesn't mean they don't know. And while it may be officially secret how much is spent on various secret projects, it's not exactly hard to figure out the general outlines. For example, a significant chunk of secret spending is buried in the Air Force budget. (The Air Force buys a bunch of really expensive things, frequently with perfectly good reasons to be quiet about them, so confusing the issue of just how much really expensive stuff they bought is not too hard.)

    3. Re:well... by Slime-dogg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a provision in the DoD funding specifically for black ops. Senate knows that there *is* money going into them, although they all know that there is no way that they will know what the money is spent on. For all we know, TIA has been a thriving force since 1980.

      All money for government goes through the house, regardless of what people may think. The military / CIA / NSA need to request funds from congress in order to do their operations. These funds end up looking like "Monkey Wrench" and "Toilet Seat," because these are good non-descriptive words that act as substitutes.

      The wording of the bill is interesting, however, since it doesn't specify what can get the money, rather is specifies what cannot get the money. This way, congress can limit what the intelligence department can do with the money, without them actually knowing what they really are doing.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
  3. OF COURSE! by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Yes, this is true. No money "on the books." A perfect "end".

    But do you really think TIA will really end? The project will simply go, as they call it, "Dark". When the F-117 was being made, in a project called, I believe, "Deep Blue" do you think money that was on the books was used? No. TIA will "die" in the public, because the project is going dark. End of story. The website will remain the scrappy little inocent bits of HTML it is today, meanwhile under a lake somewhere will be a cluster of computers that are running TIA at full speed.

  4. John Poindexter does his own funding by babykong · · Score: 5, Interesting

    TIA is run by John Poindexter who was involved in Iran Contra. Iran Contra was a method of bypassing the need to use congressional funding for the Contras by selling arms to Iran and using those funds to do the Job.

    These people can generate their own funds, possibly by selling some of the valuable information they collect to various marketing organizations. With the death of investigative reporting, who is going to catch them this time?

    --
    Question Reality
  5. Imagine... by Schezar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You made me think...

    Imagine (HYPOTHETICALLY!) if the the US Government actually -had- orchestrated 9/11 (or knew about it and allowed it to happen) as part of a larger scheme.

    Now imagine if the public at large found out. If there were undeniable proof.

    What would happen? How would middle-class America react? That would be the ultimate test of the unity of the American people. Would they actually -do- something about it? Or would the spin-doctors win?

    If only there were a World-Sim(tm) I could use to watch something like that unfold.

    --
    GeekNights!
    Late Night Radio for Geeks!
  6. stop using 911 by asscroft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd like to go one day without hearing someone use 911 to justify some sort of crazy bullshit that never would be allowed otherwise.

    "I'm sorry, but since 911 we just can't play by the same rules, therefore I'm going to have to rape your mom. If you don't let me you're un-American and the terrorists will win. You DO NOT want to go to guantanamo, do you? Good. Get the rope, please"

    comeoff it. Meanwhile, anyone who dares question our response to 911 or any of these decisions "justified" by 911 is "disgracing the memories of the victims and insulting their families and all patriots of america"

    how nice, you have it both ways.

    well, in tribute to the popular drinking/card game:
    BULLSHIT!

    10 lines of truth
    1. Flight 93 was shot down by US fighters- justifiably so.
    2. Iraq was and still is only about oil.
    3. TIA is about spying on Americans.
    4. The Partiot act is unconstitutional.
    5. The DMCA is an overreaching easily manipulated bad law stifling innovation and driving technology out of America.
    6. Trickle down sucks if you aren't at the top.
    7. "Support the troops" does not mean cheer as they go to die and kill while simultaneously reducing their benefits.
    8. Israel isn't always right. Sometimes 2 wrongs make 2 wrongs.
    9. Despite listing these truths, I am not a terrorist.
    10. Fox is biased.

    --
    because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
  7. Re:Don't worry, by nanojath · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Yeah, don't forget that John Poindexter is in charge... he's an old hand at, um, unconventional funding of "special" government projects. Maybe his old buddies in the CIA can help him move a little ultra-pure heroin from our new buddies, the warlords of Afghanistan.


    Go ahead and mod it funny... I wish it was more of a joke.

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries