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Will Munich's Linux Desktops Be Running Windows?
An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurrott gets the 80% figure.
interesting if it's true, although the article does specify a redmond source.
vmware is a great product for developing using a virtual network, and I'm sure they must have done their sums (they are Germans, after all)
My guess is that they must have a lot of legacy apps that they can't afford to update now, and that in the future they will use linux clients, but that they can start moving everyone to linux now to make the later switch easy.
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
...is to buy out vmware like we did with blender. Then, we can hopefully get OEMs to start including windows UNDER Linux for increased features and stability. In addition, when Windows crashes, more options can be granted. If we can get Linux as the base for Windows, then people may start developing programs directly for Linux that bypass Windows altogether.
By switching to Linux for operating system, Munich avoids depending on Microsoft for technical support and product upgrades. While using VMWare allows continuous usage of existing programs and possible future migration to Linux. This decision allows CHOICE and FLEXIBILITY, which are what I believe Munich wants in the first place.
My Computer repair class last year switched to linux my behest and because my instructor wanted to anyways. we setup VMWare and a win2k install on all of our machines as a stepping stone, throughout the year, people stopped using windows as much, as they had to start IT up from inside linux and that was "too much of a hassle" to lazy high school kids. However, they did start using linux more and more, and ultimately the b3ecame more proficient. So I believe Munich is using these VMware installs to allow their workers to be able to go back to a familiar enviroment while they learn the new one and how it functions
why does the porridge bird lay his eggs in the air?
It often makes sense to maintain backward compatibility for a stage or two. If they were just going to run Windows apps they wouldn't need Windows at all. So clearly, if the story is even true, what it means is just that they have some 'legacy' apps they can't immediately replace. No big deal. Run VMware (or Win4Lin, or Wine, depending on the specifics) use Windows and the software for it that they've already payed for, but it gets them off the upgrade treadmill, and looking for *nix-native programs to replace the legacy crap.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Must... not... give in... to... M$ propaganda...
...owwww...
/me is dead.
[gurgle]
Good grief. A little common sense would dictate that even if they are using VMWare, its not something to generate a whole lot of hulaballoo about. Everyone needs a transition period.
Munich has over 100 Windows-only custom apps! They can't be expected just to switch to Linux and loose those overnight.
Even *I* dual-booted Windows next to Linux for 2 years, and I'm a geek. Its to be expected, and isn't "Betrayal" or a "Loss" to Linux... it is the necessary progression.
You are so off you're not funny.
First it's a brilliant move. Make the entire part of windows A pain in the arse to every user. now if you have linux stations running say win95 or 98 for your legacy apps in a Vmware session, you eliminate the headaches of windows system management. Simply only have the desired legacy apps on the windows side, and remove the web browser,ftp,etc... the users now cant hose it by installing elf-bowling or clicking OK to install gator. next you can simply have linux replace the windows VMware file every time it reboots. plus have a new image rolled out to all systems without any intervention.
finally, when you roll out your linux native or web based versions of the apps, all your users welcome the deletion of that damned windows.
It's brilliant! and about time someone in a IT department made such a great decision to start a migration from microsoft and closed source in a smoother way.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Look,
Bad news would be a total reversal and going with a full MS solution. This is an intelligent, well thought out migration. As nice as it would be to have all Linux based apps at the changeover, it's just not going to happen. As nice as it would be for all systems to be rolled out with Linux and everyone be perfectly happy with their systems and no retraining required, it's not going to happen. This is an excellent migration strategy. Start porting your critical apps over to Linux over a period of time (months/years), keep your existing legacy apps running on Windows in a sandbox (ie. VMWare) so that the typical crashes don't bring down the whole system (just restart the virtual machine), and, best of all, keep everyone happy and content. This shows that IT was thinking of the users throughout the migration and have their best interests at heart.
To everyone blasting this as a betrayal or a PR stunt, work in the real world and do this for a living. Wholesale switches from one platform to another is not an easy thing from the IT side of things or (especially) the user side of things. This is warranted, justified, and just plain right.
These guys don't need yelling and screaming, they need a pat on the back for thinking this through thoroughly enough to see that not all apps can be migrated over yet and people still need to work, otherwise, they could have 14,000 new bright and shiny systems with only a handful of people actively doing their jobs while all of the others sit and twiddle their thumbs for most of the day (besides to send emails, type up some documents, and surf).
I love linux (as I state all of the time), but a migration of that size (or any size) has to be thought through from the perspective of not only IT and monetary considerations, but from the user standpoint as well.
CliffH
sigs are like a box of chocolates, they all suck remove the underscores to email me
this start demonstrates already how serious a reader can take you: the city in question is Munich, not Frankfurt
They simply didn't want an American winning,
so IBM is not an american company? could you please let us know where their headquarters are?
and were willing to do anything, even pay more, to accomplish that goal.
i suspect most of the extra cost is training for the new environment, a one-time cost. the main reason microsoft's offer ended up being so much cheaper is that they offered to pay the extra training out of their slush fund, something that they most likely would not offer again on the next upgrade. with linux additional training on future upgrades should be considerably less.
and do you really think that the only reason MS can lose is anti-americanism?
and the only way to run Office is to use VMWare.
I use Microsoft Office both on my home PC and my work laptop (when necessary, which is, unfortunately, often). They both run Linux. I use CrossoverOffice, which is a commercial version of Wine.
So, there are ways other than vmWare, FYI.
JWall: GUI client for IPTables
I think you guys missed the obvious advantage of using VMWare to run Windows - you can reboot Windows faster in the case of the a BSOD :)
If running Windows on Linux lets them do whatever they need to do, then who are we to criticize them?
We are Slashdot. You must be new here. :)
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If you read the Gartner report you will see that it doesn't refer to any sources at all.
At one point it says "Munich hasn't yet disclosed the business case behind its decision." and at another "The business case assumes that many applications will not migrate to Linux".
Note that the source of the business case is carefully omitted and it doesn't refer to Munich's business case as that hasn't been released. I read it at referring to Gartner's own ASSUMED business case.
The article is just another imaginary pro-MS Gartner report. Move along folks...
When I got a new laptop last August it came pre-installed with XP. Despite everyone's complaints about Win98, I had had good luck with it on my previous 550MHz laptop. Anyway, when I upgraded to a 1.6GHz Athlon and found that VB, Word, and QuickBooks all ran SLOWER than they had run on my 550MHz laptop I decided it was time to make the dive. Not to mention my new XP machine was crashing quite a bit and the WinModem wasn't working even after a few driver upgrade attempts, alternately from HP and from Microsoft itself.
I bought a new laptop HD rather than risk the current XP installation. I installed RedHat 7.3 (because it was the same version as on my desktop server and on my dedicated hosting server). It worked great! Network card detected, USB mouse and keyboard detected. A few tweaks and my WinModem--which HADN'T been working under XP--even worked under Linux. I then went out and spent $80 on Win4Lin so I could still use Windows when absolutely necessary (I still do some VB/VC++ development occasionally). As it turns out, Word, VB, VC++, QuickBooks, Adobe *ALL* run faster under Win4Lin under RedHat 7.3 than they did on the exact same machine running XP. I couldn't believe it.
So... I switched to Linux for stability and security. And as it turns out my Windows applications actually run faster than they did with XP. I ain't looking back and I won't be running a Microsoft OS ever again.
That said, I can't say Linux is perfect. Kate seems to crash when I click the "Open" button so I have to have the "file dialog" window open and open files that way. Kopete (ICQ/MSN/Yahoo/etc. client) works fine but usually crashes when I shut it down, and doesn't support file transfers. So life is not perfect yet--but at least when these programs crash they don't take the whole OS down with it.
Anyway, I'm going to upgrade to RedHat9 so hopefully some of these issues will be handled. Even if they aren't I'll take the Linux problem to the Windows problems any day of the week.
Here are a few facts for everyone to chew on:
Let me also point out that this isn't some little "ThirdWorld" (tm, USA) country with no economics or tech savvy we are talking about - this is Germany - probably the economically most powerful nation along with USA, and the driving force behind Europe. These guys have what it takes to do an evaluation of this sort, and come out tops.
And they have proved that *again* with their decision to switch to Linux while also giving their users the psychological crutch that they will be able to use their existing windows applications. In one fell swoop, they have swept all objections off the table, and have set up a scenario where people will now actually begin using Linux/OSS apps, rather than just reading about them.
And as we all know, that is the *one* single obstacle that Linux/OSS has been facing in the past - getting people to actually try it.
Go, Germany! Show the world how it is done!
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you
Germany is the only country in the world where this MSFT practice has been shot down in courts as a restraint of trade. AFAIK In Germany you can recycle windows licenses and they cannot be tied to machines and you can resell them as well.
In btw: I see nothing wrong in using vmware as a transitions strategy. Been there myself until openoffice reached a point where it became really useable
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