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F-Zero Breaks Freeloader - Intentionally?

Posted by simoniker on from the doorknob-came-off-in-my-hands dept.

Thanks to Gamers.com for their article pointing out that the Japanese release of Nintendo's hotly-awaited F-Zero GX is partially incompatible with the Datel Freeloader region-free disc for the GameCube, which "normally allows players to run Japanese games on American or European Cubes without difficulty", as it "refuses to display the select screens or the in-game interface overlays (such as the speedometer, placing indicator, and so forth)." Since this a major Nintendo-developed title, and one of the first to sport notable incompatibilities with Freeloader, could it be that Nintendo are deliberately releasing games to break region-free circumvention, or is this just a coincidence?

44 comments

  1. What did you expect? by D.A.+Zollinger · · Score: 4, Informative

    It is probably just coincidence.

    --
    I haven't lost my mind!
    It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
    1. Re:What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Developers have no intention or incentive to support unsupported devices. When something breaks, it's more likely that they're thinking, "Who cares?" than "Oh no!"

      Your apparent implication is that Nintendo accidentally let a "bug" slip into the game. More likely, it was not an intentional attempt to create an incompatibility, simply a side effect of imperfections/non-comprehensiveness in the Freeloader's bootloading abilities.

  2. Intentional? by Eluding+Reality · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would say Yes. There were systems built into cartridges on the N64 at least that would stop you playing import games( on the N64 you had to have a joining cart, which you plugged the import and a home cart into) As the import devices started appearing, I believe later carts blocked them forcing you to either buy games when they were released in your home country or buy a new import converter cart that got around the new measures, so in other words if it is intentional, expect freeloader v2 in a month

    Anyway, had my Japanese GC since launch day and had it modded a couple of days after the mod was discovered so I'll be enjoying F-Zero in a couple of days!

    Another article on it here

    1. Re:Intentional? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Complaining about this would be like complaining because your car won't run on leaded gas even though you modded the engine to support it..

    2. Re:Intentional? by suineg · · Score: 1

      I am almost 100% positive that the N64's only import protection was the shape of the cartridge.

      The N64 itself was able to be modified to cut off a little tab that prevented the Japanese games from fitting inside the slot. This was also the same for the GameBoys if my memory still serves me.

      To the topic of the Freeloader I would say great more power to Nintendo and let them do their thing. I would say that a better option though would be for Nintendo itself to release a Freeloader type disc and charge $50 for it and make the 3rd party one not work anymore. This would encourage people to import and would make Nintendo more money in the long run.

      --
      Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. George Patton
    3. Re:Intentional? by Eluding+Reality · · Score: 1

      Should have mentioned that I'm from the UK so thats the way we had to do it here :)

      But I do remember now that you could just cut off the tab in the states, still got my n64 carts downstairs and the cart is just a different shape, the gameboy though is region free as it doesn't have to comply to any local standards like NTSC or PAL.

    4. Re:Intentional? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An officially-licensed boot disc makes no sense for anyone.

      Japanese developers wouldn't like it because they wouldn't be able to sell licenses to publishers in foreign markets.

      American developers wouldn't like it because they would be cut out of the business. They are the middleman (important ones at that), and middlemen get ANGRY when you leave them out.

      Console makers wouldn't like it because (for starters) they would be held responsible for the content in games developed in countries where cultural mores differ greatly from local ones.

      Customers would be affected as well. Do you think it would be good for the market if half the games on shelves were in Japanese intead of the local language?

      I am a rabid importer. I say keep the foreign and domestic markets completely separate, leaving people who know what they're doing to continue doing it.

    5. Re:Intentional? by nekura · · Score: 1

      It wasn't the Gameboy that was like this, it was the Super Nintendo.

      --

      "Programming is like sex - one mistake and you'll have to support it for the rest of your life."
    6. Re:Intentional? by MukiMuki · · Score: 1

      No buddy, not intentional. If Nintendo has one thing going for them, is that they spend more time fighting piracy than an idiotic business trend.

      1. The GB-everything is free-region.
      2. The SNES and N64 were region-protected by physical limitations. (Tho I think the N64 went a few steps further, the SNES's mod chip remains a sharp razor.)
      3. The GameCube is MINIMALLY region-protecting. Three solder points, a couple of wires and a switch, costing you an astounding $3 in supplies at Radio Shack ($11 if you don't have an iron), is all it takes to make it region-selectable.

      - Oh, and GameCubes using that trick aren't affected by the "bugs", so I'm pretty sure the "language flag" theory may end up holding some water here.

    7. Re:Intentional? by cbirdsong64 · · Score: 1

      It may be intentional, but only because of the link up features with the arcade version of F-Zero. I imagine there will be hardware differences in the arcade machines, and that the save data would not be compatible.

  3. Big story, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
    Did a new game inadvertently break a completely unsupported, unauthorized circumvention hack? Or was it intentional?

    Neither the writeup nor the linked article has any evidence either way. Now, discuss!!

    1. Re:Big story, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this trolling? I mean, he brings up a valid point. I guess some MODerator has a MOD'ed GC.

      This is why I love /. It's not what you say, but if someone agrees with you.

  4. Sound like a localization bug... by jordanda · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It sounds to me that they were trying to do language detection for the interface so they could release the same disc to several regions. Freeloader probably sets some language flag incorrectly which caused the text display to fail. Isn't it curious that the failure occurs just in the menus and in the speedometers? I would speculate that you can't see a single character of text. If they were purposely trying to break compatability then the failure would have been a lot more dramatic.

    1. Re:Sound like a localization bug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sorry, that's far too logical and un-conspiracy like. If you keep saying things like that, the /.ers mights just take thier tinfoil hats off. ...and we can't have that. There's an entire industry built on manufacturing foil for them! Do you want to be responsible for an industry crash?

    2. Re:Sound like a localization bug... by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 1

      That's possible, or it's possible that they couldn't figure out a better way to break Freeloader. They build region encoding into their systems for a reason. (It's an evil reason, IMO, but still a reason.)

    3. Re:Sound like a localization bug... by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "It sounds to me that they were trying to do language detection for the interface so they could release the same disc to several regions. Freeloader probably sets some language flag incorrectly which caused the text display to fail. Isn't it curious that the failure occurs just in the menus and in the speedometers?"

      We *all* know this post wouldn't have been taken seriously if this was about the X-BOX.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:Sound like a localization bug... by zaf · · Score: 1

      You've figured it out! The whole "conspiracy theory" thing is just a conspiracy cooked up by Reynolds to sell more aluminum foil!

    5. Re:Sound like a localization bug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only problem with your assertion is that you call the problem a "bug." Freeloader is unlicensed and unsupported. Even Datel themselves will never claim 100% compatibility, if just for liability purposes.

      Besides that shortcoming, yours is the only logical post thus far (in this whole ridiculously irrelevant article).

  5. Why region-lock? by DarkVein · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do companies even try to region lock? What are they trying to do? They only seem to create a useless business niche dedicated to bypassing it.

    --

    I'm as mimsy as the next borogove but your mome raths are completely outgrabe.

    1. Re:Why region-lock? by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would say that the main reason a company would want to region lock is so that they have much more precise control over the global market. Most companies will say that they use region locks in order to deliver different experiences to different users - depending upon their local customs and environments. (i.e. no Nazi symbols in French games). But I would imagine a more likely reason is that release dates can be stretched out, allowing the company's resources to be focused on a single region during that region's release period. Also, if piracy becomes prevelant, as it is in Asia, that piracy can be kept local and not spread worldwide if you've got region locks in place. That's what I'd gather region locks are for - anyone else have any better ideas?

      --
      I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
    2. Re:Why region-lock? by bigbigbison · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As I understand it, generally it is because a subsidiary of a company in another country is basically a seperate company. Nintendo of America has their own production schedual and own profit margins and whatnot. If Nintendo of Japan released a game that wasn't region locked, it would hurt Nintendo of America's bottom line.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    3. Re:Why region-lock? by toddhunter · · Score: 1

      It also allows them to control the pricing. This means they can sell it cheaply in regions where people would otherwise not buy it, and then raise the price in other regions to earn more profit.
      The region coding just enforces this control

    4. Re:Why region-lock? by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what I thought, but then why is GB and GBA lacking a region control of any kind?

      --
      Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
    5. Re:Why region-lock? by JazFresh · · Score: 3, Informative
      Region locks exist to increase the value of the exclusive rights sold to a publisher for a region.

      If you were the publisher for a game in Europe, you'd sure as hell want to make sure that the Japan/US versions of the game (which might be out months before yours due to localization delay) can't be bulk imported by retailers and sold - cos that money won't go to you, it'll go to the overseas publisher.

      Likewise, the original publishers that sell the rights to overseas publishers want region locks so that they can inflate the cost of the rights. It's more money for them to sell truly exclusive rights to a region (due to region locks), than some half-assed rights because overseas retailers can just import from overseas.

      That's one reason, there are other more minor ones too, like limiting marketing to one region so they can see how well it does, and apply those stats to the budgets for other regions.

      Same deal with DVD regions too.

    6. Re:Why region-lock? by anonymous+loser · · Score: 1

      This is VERY true, especially for Nintendo games. As a point of reference, Viewtiful Joe for Gamecube was on store shelves selling for 6800 yen (~$60) when I was in Tokyo last week, compared to the $40 pre-order price here in the U.S.

    7. Re:Why region-lock? by Godai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They'll spin you every which yarn they can think of to convince you otherwise. But in the end, it simply boils down to one of the oldest tricks in the book: divide and conquer.

      From what I remember of economics theory, it has to do with something called market specialization. In other word, divide up the market and charge each piece whatever it can bear.

      Take Asia and, say, the UK or example. Try to sell the same game for the same price in both regions and you will see substandard income in one of them; either the price will be to high in Asia (less affluent generally, more piracy) or too low in the UK (ie. they would be will to pay a lot more). So by region locking they can charge $X in Asian and 3 * $X in the UK. If they didn't have region locking everyone in the UK would simply import the games from Asia because the costs of importing/modding are less than the price difference. This is analagous to chargind different rates at the movies depending on your age.

      This is the same for DVDs. Why do you think they could get away with charging 80 pounds for GoldenEye in the UK when it was sold in the NA for $30?

      --
      Wood Shavings!
      - Godai
    8. Re:Why region-lock? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they make four hundred JILLION dollars!

  6. Uhm, and? by Reality_X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having my very own Freeloader, I can say that incompatibilities with it are nothing worth writing a slashdot news story about. I've had a success rate of 1/5 games so far. Using 3 different boot methods.

    The thing doesn't work properly.
    007 Nightfire doesn't go past the start screen.
    Harry Potter, Chamber of Secrets is in black and white.
    Luigis Mansion is in black and white.
    Zelda doesn't load.
    Super Monkey Ball 2 works perfectly!

    So yeah, if there's anything to blame for not working as advertisied, it's the Freeloader itself.

    Probably cheaper to buy a different region cube anyway :-)

    1. Re:Uhm, and? by Cap-America · · Score: 1
      I've also had problems with the Freeloader loading with some games. My copy of Luigi's Mansion was also in black & white and Zelda didn't load. There where a few other game I had that also didn't load but I'm spacing on them right now.

      I think the blame here should be placed on the Freeloader and Not Nintendo. Think about it if they wanted to block people from importing games don't you think they would have made it allot harder to mod your Cube? its only 4 wires and a switch to mod it.

      I also personally recommend just modding your Cube its not that hard and it only costs like $8.00 to do it ($5.00 for the screw driver bit)

      --

      -------- -Cap
      ~Bommers, Why did it have to be Bommers!?!

    2. Re:Uhm, and? by PaleZer0 · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, what is your setup? PAL cube/american games? american cube/japanese games?

      --

      PaleHour
    3. Re:Uhm, and? by saintm · · Score: 2, Informative

      The most common reason for the games appearing in black and white seem to be that your TV does not support NTSC (or PAL60).

      If you are sure your TV does support that, have you tried holding 'B' when the game boots up? You usually get a 60mHz option appearing.

      Of course this is assuming you have a PAL console.

    4. Re:Uhm, and? by Reality_X · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know. I have a compatible TV (a year old Panasonic widescreen HDTV which happily runs all my Dreamcast NTSC/PAL60 games, Region 1 DVDs and so on.)

      I've tried everything, it just doesn't work.

      Anyway, if Super Monkey Ball 2 worked, and that was NTSC, then the rest should work also.

    5. Re:Uhm, and? by Cap-America · · Score: 1

      A Japanese Cube with American games and a American Cube with Japanese games. Yes I own two Cubes one in my room and one in my living room.

      --

      -------- -Cap
      ~Bommers, Why did it have to be Bommers!?!

  7. Pansies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Boot discs are for non-modding pussies anyways. Crack that shit open and get out the solder- warranty be damned.

    1. Re:Pansies by Mr.Dippy · · Score: 0

      Good point. All you think it's so cool to hack an XBOX with Linux (okay actually it is pretty cool) but then complain about this mystical freeLoader being incompatiable. Please! all you guys are suppose to be elite Programmer/Hacker/Engineers (in theory). Okay guys go out there and show Nintendo just what your made of.

      --


      -Dipster
    2. Re:Pansies by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 1

      I just want to be able to copy those mini DVDs, if nothing else to make backup copies of my discs before my 8 year old scratches the bejesus out of Zelda (RIP, Mario Sunshine Disc).

      --
      MORTAR COMBAT!
    3. Re:Pansies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should teach your 8 year old to respect the disc. The disc is their friend and possibly future life partner. I work at a big game retailer and see probably 100+ different used gcn disc's a week. Maybe two are scratched, unless they're stolen from Blockbuster, then they're usually scratched. Kids a lot younger know how to take care of their game discs and systems; yours should too.

  8. I'm sure it was a coincidence by KU_Fletch · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ...just like that coincidence when Nvidia tweaked its drivers and got a better 3dmark score... wait a sec.

    --
    It's not stupid. It's advanced.
  9. Just wait for the damn game... by Man+In+Black · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No offense or anything, but I don't see much point in importing a game that is guaranteed to be released in North American anyways. Instead of spending twice the price and sitting through japanese menus and cutscenes, you could just wait the month or so and get a copy that has no compatibility issues whatsoever.

    Of course, in Europe where everything seems to take forever to come out, I can understand it a little better.

    --
    -"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -EH
    1. Re:Just wait for the damn game... by PaleZer0 · · Score: 1

      EXACTLY!!! especially seeing as it looks like you won't be able to unlock some of the stuff that the japanese arcade machine does. Its just silly. Especially when its gonna be out in a month here.

      --

      PaleHour
    2. Re:Just wait for the damn game... by Rainier+Wolfecastle · · Score: 1

      How the hell are you going to brag to your IRC friends how bad-ass you ae if you do that?

  10. so? by crowdozer · · Score: 0, Troll

    so a game running on system it wasn't intended to play on isn't showing you text in a language you can't read? and this is news?

  11. Business Reasons by Metroid72 · · Score: 1

    There are probably business reasons behind this decision. I remember that a few years ago (8/16 bit era) Sega and Nintendo had different models. Since Sega was managed more as a distributed company (Sega of America/Sega of Japan were kinda different entities) there was a need to better define the source of revenue -hence the multiple territorial lockouts on Genesis games- whereas Nintendo was more centralized and flexible regarding revenue sourcing

    Lately, the weakness of the dollar (compared to the Euro) probably might have some influence (Nintendo wants to make sure that Europeans buy european games, instead of the 'cheaper' american versions.

    But then... I could be completely wrong.