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Don't Waste Culture, Recycle Art

Eddan Katz writes "Stepping up the copyright battle on behalf of artists, EFF is hosting an event tonight called Digital Mix at the Black Box in Oakland. Between laptop music, hip hop, and illegal art films, speakers will talk about the Creative Commons sampling license and EFF's "Let the Music Play" campaign."

28 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm... by cultobill · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not the most helpful EFF page I've seen. "Yeah, party. Here's who is coming"

    The Box site, however:
    On July 25th, from 8pm till 2am, the Electronic Frontier Foundation will host a night of music, art, and conversation to celebrate digital culture. Hosted at the Oakland Box in downtown Oakland, this special BayFF will bring up-and-coming artists of electronica, digital film, and illegal art together with leaders from the cyber-rights movement. Lawsuits and legislation have become the weapons of choice for dealing with file-sharing and cultural recycling("sampling"); come out and discover what all the hype is about. Between laptop music, hip hop, and industrial performances, you will hear from people who are fighting to protect new forms of expression and cultural distribution from the attacks of the entertainment industry. This is an all-ages event.

    --
    -- Bill "Houdini" Weiss
  2. Isn't it a little weird... by mikeophile · · Score: 4, Funny

    To have an article about not wasting culture right after an article about the first Petri dish baby?

  3. What is an illigal art film? by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are they just stealing movies from Kazaa again?

    (But seriously.. what is one pls?)

    --
    The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
    1. Re:What is an illigal art film? by thung226 · · Score: 2, Funny

      http://www.illegal-art.org/

      Didn't Andy Warhol do this kind of thing already? I guess back then it was just called "art".

      Slap pictures of soup cans on a canvas now, and you'll have lawyers up your a$$ in 20 sec (5 seconds do put the soup can labels on there, 15 seconds to relish in your genius).

      --
      -n-
    2. Re:What is an illigal art film? by mkro · · Score: 4, Informative
      Basically, it means using images/music/trademarks without permission to make a new, standalone movie.

      Check out http://www.illegal-art.org/video/ for some good examples. Some are crap, some are funny, but I found in particular "Spin" a bit interesting.

      --
      I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
    3. Re:What is an illigal art film? by cybercyph · · Score: 4, Informative

      illegal art is art that, according to this site, has sparked a law suit. examples are parodies of corporate logos, uses of trade marked charecters (like mickey or spiderman or barbie), and the like

  4. Just what do they mean by illegal art ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the art they are showing is truly illegal this seems a fantastic way to get thrown in the clink. If its not then this becomes the work of meerly pretentious posers.

  5. I can't make it in time.... by Cat_Byte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Will someone record this & put it on kazaa for me?

    --
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
  6. Clever Wording by trisweb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "cultural recycling"
    "fighting to protect new forms of expression"
    "attacks of the entertainment industry"

    Sounds like something the entertainment industry might want to attack, and it was just genius of us to give them some publicity, don't you think?

    I can just see the bust now... try using all those catchphrases on the Oakland police, and then the RIAA lawyers... But, then again, they'll probably get away with it...

    --
    "!"
  7. Let The Music Play by Khakionion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Let's not downplay the importance of the "Let The Music Play" campaign. Go to the EFF website, print out the ad that's appearing in Rolling Stone, Spin et al, and post it everywhere.

    The only way to fight the **AA is to enlighten the masses who aren't aware of the problem. After that, boycotts, actual progress in Congress, the whole enchilada will be a breeze.

    --
    OMG! Wau!
  8. On behalf of the artists? by TheAwfulTruth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You mean on behalf of SOME of the artists. Or SOME TYPES of artists. Since the "right" to sample is frequently just one artist infringing on the "right" of another artist to protect their artistic work.

    As an artist myself, I would be a little POed if the next Millie Vanillie decided to rip a hit or a rift from a song of mine without asking. The EFF's position on this does nothing but take AWAY my rights as a musical artist.

    As usual, there are two sides to this story and one side does not invalidate the other! The rights of one do not cancel out the rights of another. And in these situations the "right" has to belong to the original creator, not the follow-on users. If some bands want to put their music up for PD sampling, then great, otherwise, as always, be polite and ask before borrowing.

    Clearing samples is not all that hard, it's done all the time. Is it really too much to just ask? It takes a LOT of effort to create new and unique soundbytes, hits and signatur rifts. Then having someone come along and take them for free without even asking is just rude.

    There are far too many people taking and not enough creating as it is. Please, don't try to tell me that it's every Joe's right to use my music for their own personal gain.

    --
    Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
    1. Re:On behalf of the artists? by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, I've checked your posting history, and it doesn't appear you're a troll, so I'll just assume you're uninformed.

      Creative Commons is like an open source art advocate. They do NOT promote copyright infringement. What they do is provide you with licenses you can attach to your art which give other artists select rights to use your art. For example, they have a license that allows others to use your work so long as they attribute it to you. Or they can use it for only non-commercial purposes. Or they can use it, but just can't edit it. Or they can't prevent other people from editing it after they do. Or any combination thereof. Essentially, it's the GPL for art.

      Now, if you don't want somebody using your art without your permission, then don't use a Creative Commons license. Stick with plain old copyright, and charge for your art. If, however, you'd like people to be able to use it to create works of their own, and share those works with others, then, by all means, check out Creative Commons.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:On behalf of the artists? by jcsehak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or SOME TYPES of artists. Since the "right" to sample is frequently just one artist infringing on the "right" of another artist to protect their artistic work.

      Protect it from what? No harm is done to an artist when another samples his song. There is literally no bad that can come of it. Clearing samples is nothing more than one more way for major labels to squeeze some more money out of the industry.

      Using samples is an art form. Back in the day, when things like "Paul's Boutique" came out, it was this fresh new way of making music. And it got squashed by the labels. NOT the artists, mind you. The labels. Because they said, "Woah, waitaminnit. We could be charging people for this and making serious bank." Never once, and I can pretty much guarantee this, never once did an exec say "I feel this depreciates the integrity of the original work." Because a) it doesn't, and b) it's free advertising (assuming the samples were credited). So why would they throw away free advertising? They found a better business model that conflicted with it - sample clearance.

      Tycho from Penny Arcade talked about this, in regard to the whole American Greetings fiasco. He said:

      "I can't even express concepts without leveraging some organization's coveted intellectual property. In the case of the now infamous strip, it wouldn't have made sense to use anything but a commonly known product. So now that these Goddamn characters and concepts and products are completely intrinsic to our language and thought processes, they are, in fact, inextricable, they can effectively police speech."

      Sonofabitch, he's right. They can now police fucking speech. They pour loads of cash into ad campaigns to make their products, services, songs, an inextricable part of the American vernacular, and then they tell you what you can do with them.

      Fuck that. If you don't want someone sampling your song - if it's that precious to you - don't release it to the public. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Well, you can now, but it's fucked up.

      Clearing samples is not all that hard, it's done all the time.

      TheAwfulTruth, you ignorant slut. Do you have any idea how goddam expensive it is to clear a sample? No, of course you don't. And you obviously have no clue how much of a pain in the ass it is. Remember Odelay? The grammy-winning album by Beck? I read an interview with him, he said something to the effect of "clearing samples was such a headache on that album, I don't think I'll ever sample again." And that's a guy with a MAJOR label behind him, funding him.

      Please, don't try to tell me that it's every Joe's right to use my music for their own personal gain.

      Their own personal gain? So if sampling was made legal, and all the sudden that fresh new art form that was squashed by nothing but greedy corporations, exploded onto the scene again, and wave after wave of innivative music came into existence, the only people it would benefit would be the artists? Yeah, because no one actually listens to music, and just enjoys it.

      --

      c-hack.com |
    3. Re:On behalf of the artists? by moncyb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your post seemed to be under the assumption that everyone on Slashdot is the same guy. Using a "well then Microsoft should be able to grab some GPLed code" response to a AC who may very well have nothing to do with GNU (or open source) is going to insult a lot of people on Slashdot. From that post, I imagine the AC probably doesn't care, he may very well be distributing GPLed software, no source, under his name alongside a huge warez collection.

      You had a good point, but that sounded like a standard MS shill post. Do you see why some might think you are trolling?

    4. Re:On behalf of the artists? by moncyb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First of all, there are more than two sides to this story. Why do so many assume this fight is between the "I should get all my music for free" crowd and "everyone is infringing the RIAA's rights, so the RIAA should be allowed complete control over the internet and all computers!"

      I can't even see where the EFF is saying people should take music for free. At least not in the linked urls. Their "Let the Music Play" page says: "The problem is that there is no adequate system in place that allows music lovers access to their favorite music while compensating artists and copyright holders."

      The Digital mix party mostly seems to be about introducing new artists and sampling with the Creative Commons license. There appears to be some "illegal art" crap, though I don't see where it says what kind--the guy might just be using company logos to make a political point. Though I found this statement at illegal-art.org interesting:

      The laws governing "intellectual property" have grown so expansive in recent years that artists need legal experts to sort them all out. Borrowing from another artwork--as jazz musicians did in the 1930s and Looney Tunes illustrators did in 1940s--will now land you in court. If the current copyright laws had been in effect back in the day, whole genres such as collage, hiphop, and Pop Art might have never have existed.

      The irony here couldn't be more stark. Rooted in the U.S. Constitution, copyright was originally intended to facilitate the exchange of ideas but is now being used to stifle it.

      I don't really care if some piker doesn't want me to sample his work. Fine, I won't use it except to respond to his comments and demonstrate how stupid he is. In fact, this is one of the major reasons we have fair use.[1] If you're not allowed to quote excerpts or show samples of a work, it is quite difficult to comment on it.

      There are far too many people taking and not enough creating as it is.

      There are plenty of people creating, you just don't want to see it. Why don't you walk out of the RIAA's castle for a few minutes. Maybe you'll learn something.

      Uh oh. I just sampled part of your post in my reply. Does this mean I should be arrested?

      [1] Real fair use, not the "nothing is fair use" stance of the RIAA nor the "everything is fair use" stance of warez hounds.

  9. Don's Plum by IntelliTubbie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don's Plum is, in the US at least, an illegal art film. It stars Tobey Maguire and Leonardo DiCaprio, and according to what I've heard (though I don't know anyone who's actually seen it -- please correct me if I'm wrong), it contains a lot of debauchery, drugs, homosexuality, a la Kids.

    So why haven't you heard of it? Because Leo and Tobey decided the film would undermine their wholesome, teeny-bopper public image -- so they decided to throw their weight around and block the film from being released. The producer of the film sued the two stars, and as a settlement, they agreed that it would be banned from distribution in the US.

    Cheers,
    IT

    --

    Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

  10. illegal films are cool by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Too bad they must be kept underground and the makers anon because of greed.

    Most indie films and "fan films" are illegal. because they use a song without paying the artist $897,554,665,32 to use it, or because the creator is a big idiot, (See lucas for the big idiot example)

    I have found that if you look past the fact they didn't spend 22 million to make the film, they are actually very good, entertaining, and actually usually better quality than what comes out of Hollywood. (as in story and plot.)

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Dwnloads by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 3, Informative
    You can avoid being sued or arrested if you download legal music instead of getting your tunes from the p2p networks. You also don't need to deal with Digital Rights Management.

    Many unsigned and independent musicians provide free downloads of their music on their websites as a way to attract more fans. Here's some from my friend Oliver Brown for example. Many such musicians, while relatively unknown, are as good as any major label band and certainly an improvement over the pablum they serve up on ClearChannel.

    You can find many more examples in my new article:

    The article also explores some of the historical and legal issues behind copyright, and suggests steps the file traders can take to make file sharing legal.

    If you're a musician who offers downloads of your music, I can link to your band's website from the article if you give my article a reciprocal link. Please follow the instructions given here

    And yes I have been posting this to Slashdot repeatedly for several days, because I think it's important for people to understand there's a way to get quality, free music without breaking any laws, while at the same time benefiting the many talented, hardworking musicians who aren't signed with a major label.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  12. Nice To See They Support It by ticklemeozmo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm glad to see the EFF not only supports the digitial music initative but also mildly practices the fundamentals behind the MP3 drive and file-sharing.

    Their campaign title, "Let The Music Play" was a well known song in the 80s by a group called Shannon.

    So, by (and I use the term loosely to be modded interesting) "infringing on the copyrights" and using a well-known song title as the campaign against the RIAA, it was not only clever marketing, but a witty double entendre. :)

    --
    When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
  13. Ilegal Art by didjit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As part of the illegal art expo at SF MOMA this month, they've had several shows. I went to one in SF last week which was quite cool. The movement to protect this artform and avoid massive lawsuits seems similar to some of the problems faced in the open source movement. Perhaps there should be an open source music movement now. These artists/musicians/filmmakers are interested in freedom of expression through using other people's work in new and creative ways.

  14. Not on behalf of talentless whiners. by Rares+Marian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Creating is silly. Creating is pure exploration. Not involved in the actual building process. What makes a song valuable is what you can recognize and relate to. Sampling is a tool for builders. Builders are the ones with the concepts, the art. A random number generator can be tweaked to create music. SSEYO.com's Koan Pro is proof.

    Artists who do not build are well IMHO, frauds. What you call soundbytes and signature riffs I call Novelty. Builders do not use novelty.

    Real artists don't get all teary eyed when somebody laughs at their work. Real artist call sampling communication.

    Builders are sick and tired self involved so called poets. More music please, not more sound-in-time. It's disgraceful.

    --
    The message on the other side of this sig is false.
  15. Re:Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Dwnlo by ichimunki · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nice article. I linked it from my site (which has a whopping TWO legal mp3s of some "music" I did back in the early 90s).

    I wonder why you don't mention negativland.com anywhere in the main article page, though. While their music may not be terribly popular (they do have some free downloads on their site) they are constantly on the forefront of the battle for Fair Use rights and against the expanding "intellectual property" movement. They also have an excellent page of other articles on the topic-- including Steve Albini's version of Courtney Love's "Do the Math" speech.

    --
    I do not have a signature
  16. In defense of "illegal" art by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Get real. Nobody is stealing your art or taking away your rights. Incorporating samples and riffs into new pieces of art is just the natural evolution of art given advances in technology. Art builds on previous works; it always has. If you're a musician, did you make up every single note, chord, or chord progression that you play? Of course not. Is that stealing? No; it's learning. Now I'm not going to deny that there are people who make works that are nothing but copies of other peoples' works, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about using snippits of other peoples' work and incorporating it into a new work that is clearly and identifiably not a derivative of the previous work.

    For example, Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock's 80's (or early 90s?) hit "It Takes Two" has a brilliant beat that is made up of samples directly taken from older funk songs. People knew the songs but nobody thought it was a ripoff; the combination of samples was ingenious. I don't know whether they cleared the samples -- I suspect not, since it was relatively early in the era of the digital sampler and the performance DJ; probably a bit before all the legal maneuvering that resulted in the current practice of "clearing" samples -- but in either case I don't believe they should have to, any more than any blues guitarist should have to pay to incorporate a standard blues progression into a new song. There's a difference between playing the same thing yourself on the guitar and using a sampler to play it only if you don't believe the sampler (or turntable) can itself be a musical instrument.

    Now, I do think samples should be credited, absolutely in the case of big hits that turn an obscure old funk riff into dancefloor anthems; the only reason they aren't widely credited is because people are afraid of being sued. I DJ, and I know the crowd goes crazy when they hear what they think is the intro to a Fat Boy Slim song, only to hear the original funk record from the early 70s. Almost every time someone comes up to me and asks me who is remaking a fatboy slim song and I have to explain that it is Camille Yarbrough's beautiful voice that is sampled by Fatboy Slim and not the other way around. Fatboy Slim's song is a totally different song, unique and valid in its own right as an original work of art. But it clearly pays tribute to an earlier work, and the work is clearly credited (though in tiny print).

    Now, I'm glad if the artist herself got paid for the sample, though I suspect the deal was cut strictly between record companies. But I don't think it is necessary to pay the artist or "clear" the sample any more than it would be necessary to pay shakespeare's estate for making a modern version of romeo and juliette. I don't object to the economic arrangement or the courtesy call ("We're going to sample your work in this new song and would like to know how you'd like to be credited"), but beyond that I absolutely disagree with an artist's (or company working on behalf of the artist) right to control whether or not you can use a sample. Whether or not Fatboy paid Camille Yarbrough to use the sample, she did get paid from his use of the sample in terms of increased popularity in an era when she would otherwise be forgotten (in fact, she had been forgotten until he came around). In either case I don't think she should have the right to say "no, you can't use the sample at all" to an artist making reasonable use of portions of her work with credit.

    What bothers me most is people using that right to stifle artistic expression, prevent parody and silence criticism. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and any successful artist who doesn't see that is too blinded by their own ego to be making the rules about intellectual property.

  17. There are in fact legal p2p networks by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 2, Informative
    The problem with most p2p networks is that you don't know the legality of what you're getting. If you download a song from an artist you've never heard of, how do you know they gave their permission for their file to be on the network?

    But there are p2p networks for downloading legal music. Some of them use digital signatures to authenticate the legality of the files. Here's the ones I've found so far:

    I talk about all of these in my article.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  18. Free as in Free Speech Art by jeremie_z_ · · Score: 2, Informative

    take a look at this Free Art License based on the GPL, but aimed at covering the Copyleft distribution terms of any artform.

    it's the only one to make a difference between an original artwork and its copies, which may seem irellevant applied to digital art, but allows "real" physical artworks to be used and reused as GPLed code.

    here is the Free Art License,the translation of the original License Art Libre
    and the website in french.

    the license is in perpetual evolution.and more and more people use it.

    i can't resist to some autopromotional example of FALed works with my own personnal website ;)

    njoy'n'share!

  19. There is literally no bad that can come of it.? by David+Hume · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Protect it from what? No harm is done to an artist when another samples his song. There is literally no bad that can come of it.


    As I said before (and I'm saying it again because it's responsive, in context, and I'm hopeful the author of the parent will see the reply and respond), what if the sample of your work is used without your permission in Nazi, White Supremacy or Anti-Semitic music, and you disaprove? Why should the fruit of your creativity and your labor be used without your permission to promote people, ideas and movements you loath?

    Please consider an author's Moral Rights under the Berne Convention:

    Article 6bis

    (1) Independently of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work, which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.


    Also consider an author's Right of Adaptation under the Berne Convention :

    Article 12

    Authors of literary or artistic works shall enjoy the exclusive right of authorizing adaptations, arrangements and other alterations of their works.


    1. Re:There is literally no bad that can come of it.? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why should the fruit of your creativity and your labor be used without your permission to promote people, ideas and movements you loath?

      Why not? Remember when Jefferson said that creative works were like fire? Able to be spread, and to illuminate the originator equally as much as later persons who partake of it.

      This argument is pretty foolish. It isn't for the artist to control such matters any more than it should be possible for Ford to tell people that they mustn't sell used cars to Jews in respect for Henry Ford's antisemitism. Anyone should be able to use art. If it couldn't, the usefulness of copyrights would plummet so dramatically that to grant them would be utter folly.

      Please consider an author's Moral Rights under the Berne Convention

      I don't believe that they exist. I certainly do not and never will respect them or adhere to them unless by coincidence I personally desire to what what the artist wanted me to do anyway.

      And there is definitely no REASON for moral rights to exist. It's tripe. Please, tell me why _I_ should (as a person, or as an artist; I'm both) respect an artist's desire for moral rights. What's in it for me?

      Ultimately, I feel that if enough people want to sample, they should be able to do so legally as much as they please. Perhaps some touchy artists will be upset with this and abandon their labors. If they do, but the world is better off for being able to sample than it was with those artists, then I would be happy to be rid of them. Only where the world is better off the other way would I accept a ban on sampling. And it still might seem suspicious to me.

      What artists want is pretty irrelevant IMO. I don't really pay it any mind. Especially given how hostile many artists are to the society that must be sweet-talked into generously granting a copyright at its leisure. It's the right policy to adopt, again both as a person and as an artist.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  20. That's what libel is for by jcsehak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your reply is a very smart one, basically showing the one instance that can make a sampled riff detrimental to a performer's character.

    But think about it a bit further. Isn't that what libel suits are for? If I used a bit of a U2 song in my own nazi song (we're talking for instance here, I damn sure don't write nazi songs), and it made it seem like Bono was speaking in favor of nazis, I could rightfully be sued for libel. On the other hand, I believe I should be able to a simple guitar riff in a pro-nazi song, and it should be perfectly legal.

    Yes, it sucks. But I think you have to take the bad with the good. Just like I think people have a right to say "You stupid kike" (though if you get your ass kicked, don't come crying to me), I also think that if you're making an artistic statement, you should be free to do so without getting sued. Even if you're a racist rat bastard.

    One caveat: I believe that an advertisement is, by definition, not an artistic statement. Advertisers should have no rights, except what the artists give (sell) them. After thinking about it for a long while (really), I believe that propaganda is a form of advertisement. So while sampling should be perfectly legal, using part of my song in a pro-nazi (for instance) song should be considered propaganda, and thereby, illegal. Yeah, it's a slippery slope, but that's what juries are for, right? Does that make sense? What do you think?

    --

    c-hack.com |