New Directions In Music Tech At Siggraph

Cyrrin writes "The 2003 Siggraph conference is under way in San Diego, and the Emerging Technologies booth is showcasing several noteworthy projects in the field of human-computer interaction in music production. First, The Continuator system, from Sony Computer Science Laboratory, Paris which learns in real-time the style of a performing pianist, taking into account chord structures, rhythm, and melody, and then renders a musical performance in a similar style. Next is The Augmented Composer Project which uses real-time image processing to read the arrangement and orientation of symbolic cards on a table to allow a composer to assemble components of a musical phrase. Finally, those wizards at the MIT Media Lab bring you Hyperscore, a visual composition program which is intended for childen to be able to easily create complex and fantastic music sequences. (And it's fun for adults too!) Hyperscore is part of the Toy Symphony project and is available for download by going to the Musictoys->Hyperscore-> Showcase page (Windows-only though)."

Comments

A musicians worse nightmare.

[HanzoSan]

I see, so I guess because Sony cant sell CDs anymore now they want to make machines which learn from successful musicians and generate music I guess so they can fire the musician and sell the new machine product to consumers.

I guess musicians should prepare to be replaced by the machines.

Re: A musicians worse nightmare.

[chill]

I see, so I guess because Sony cant sell CDs anymore now they want to make machines which learn from successful musicians and generate music I guess so they can fire the musician and sell the new machine product to consumers.

With luck, it's first exposure will be to Boy George, Britney Spears and William Shatner. If it is truly smart software, it will then kill itself and try it's damndest to take as many music execs as possible with it.

Regarding the piano piece...

[James A. A. Joyce]

...the electronic musician Paul Lansky already did this on his album Ride with a 14 minute piece entitled "Heavy Set". It's quite repetitive, though; it's literally just a piano with occasional ambience-esque swathes of melody every few moments. You can hear an excerpt of it.

As seen on TV

[seekohler]

They did a bit on Hyperscore (and the Toy Symphony) on an episode of Scientific American Frontiers a few months back.

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1309/index.html

Such promises wiped out be copyright.

[Thinkit3]

Moreso really by the notion that people can create ideas. When we realize that ideas exist outside of time, and get rid of these dumb laws, we can truly discover music. But it'll happen.

audiopad

[edrugtrader]

what about audiopad??

that is the sickest thing i've ever seen.

Old news...

[JaredOfEuropa]

"I guess musicians should prepare to be replaced by the machines."

They've been doing that for years already. Haven't you been listening to any of today's hit songs?

The Continuator

[Tumbleweed]

> The Continuator system, from Sony Computer Science Laboratory, Paris which
> learns in real-time the style of a performing pianist, taking into account
> chord structures, rhythm, and melody, and then renders a musical performance in
> a similar style.

The Continuator, the latest product from Sony Computer Science Laboratory (a wholly-owned subsidiary of CyberDyne Heavy Industries, Inc.), was quoted as saying, "Say, that's a nice tune you've got there..." The demo's guest pianist was later found gruesomely slain in a back room of the exhibition hall.

What about creativity

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

"The Continuator system [...] which learns in real-time the style of a performing pianist [...]"

"[...] to allow a composer to assemble components of a musical phrase"

"[...] Hyperscore, a visual composition program which is intended for childen to be able to easily create complex and fantastic music sequences"

So, with all those coming fantastic tools, and the ones we already have, how come the music market is flooded with inane Britney Spear-ish crap, bad techno and shitty teenage bands?

I'm not a great fan of rock-whatever, but I notice a great portion of radio air-time is filled with oldies, and also new releases, from long-established bands that happen to play actual instruments with (supposedly) their talent and hard work as primary source of arrangements, musical phrases and fantastic music sequences. Maybe old-timer know something newer "artists" don't ...

Shouldn't the so-called "artists" learn to read and write scores first, lean to play an instrument, then work and work at their art to get better before using all the gimmicks? A gold-plated turd is still a turd, and I have the distinct feeling that many mediocre artists think electronic gadgetry will make them better, when really the gadgetry only does its best to presents the bad music better in the end.

Re:What about creativity

[isotope23]

I take issue with you idea that artists should learn to read music first.

Alot of traditional music, i.e. folk, blues, etc was made by people who probably could not read let alone read music.

In addition, music in its current written form is not necessarily the best way to represent music. Just as there are a number of alphabets, and or different ways to use them, (pencil, typewriter, computer) the computer allows different ways to explore and create.

Re:What about creativity

[Hatta]

There's lots of creative music out there, it just doesn't get on the radio because it doesn't make Clear Channel money. The Jam scene is the best thing to happen to music since Pink Floyd. Check out some of the artists on the Live Music Archive or Furthurnet. The common thread is improvisation. They have to be talented to create new material every night.

Re:What about creativity

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Shouldn't the so-called "artists" learn to read and write scores first, lean to play an instrument, then work and work at their art to get better before using all the gimmicks?

... and I bet you want babies to learn the anatomy and physiology of their legs before they are allowed to walk. These are exploration tools so that the kids don't get so bogged down in the mechanics of reading and writing musical notation that they learn to hate music.

The most effective way to get a high level of fluency in a foreign language is NOT to formally study it, it is to just use it as much as possible and figure out the rules later. Same thing with music ... and if you took a poll, you would be surprised at all the excellent musicians who play by ear, not by sight.

Re:What about creativity

[edverb]

"Birds don't read music." -Charlie Parker

New Artists

[corgicorgi]

First, The Continuator system, from Sony Computer Science Laboratory, Paris which learns in real-time the style of a performing pianist, taking into account chord structures, rhythm, and melody, and then renders a musical performance in a similar style.

That is so cool! I can't wait for an album release by Deep Blue!

Gibson MaGIC

[Lerxst Pratt]

Gibson's MaGIC was the last music innovation that gave me goosebumps. I wonder if they'll showcase this technology at the show. Imagine plugging ethernet cable into a Les Paul!!! Through this technology, they're making it easier for musicians to jam together online regardless of physical location. There's soooo much more to this technology, so check out the link for details.

Musicianship is still the key

[ratfynk]

Spontanious Human Composition (jazz) vs Non Human Spontanious. Wow what a pile of digital diarrhea. Even the great classical musicians of our time have the ability groove, something which computer generated stuff just does not do, and cannot. The recordings of Glen Gould are more akin to music paintings by great musician.
It will be cute if they can imitate the humming of Glen Gould.

There is no way that these guys will get the idea that the performance of music is still something that requires an interpretation. Something which you cannot quantify, and changes with each different performance of a great player. It depends on the players response to the current air pressure, sonic characteristics of a venue, temp of instrument, audience, the amount of rosin on bow at the time, the touch character of a certian piano. All the wonderfull things that the player has a skill to respond to. It especially depends on the ability of the performer to lead the audience and the wonderfull give and take that has been lost to recordings. Musicianship is not a product it is a real living breathing art that thank God cannot be programmed.

Re:Musicianship is still the key

[WTFmonkey]

I agree, both as a classically (among others) trained guitarist and as a programmer. To put it in terms more /.ers can understand: Glen Gould is a hacker--he just hacks a piano instead of a computer. There are virtuosos in both groups.

That said, I can't wait for the day when computers can hack music. I mean, just from a novelty point of view, I'd like to be able to tell a program, "If Jimi Hendrix had been a classical guitarist, what would Dove Son Quei Fieri Occhi have sounded like?" and let the computer extrapolate. Come on, that would be fun.

Re:Musicianship is still the key

[ratfynk]

No certainly I would not. I am learning to compose for such things, my technique includes using mountain echo time delay calculated into fuge structure. My dream is to create a propane powered set of organ triggered horns, in combination with highly amplified real musicians at set distances. The microphone placements will be calculated to create diferent pieces of music at different spots. Even the audiance placement can be a part of the performance. I practice the pieces by using computer technology to test my harmonies, and any air pressure time calculations I need to make to modify note timing at different alttitudes. This is because sound travels at different speeds at different kp air pressure. "There is no such thing as an ugly sound only sounds that are used without context" Rimsky on Orchestration.

Re:Musicianship is still the key

[oscillateur]

I saw demos of continuator at CSL Paris and a concert of Bernard Lubat (excellent french jazzman/improviser) *and* Continuator (operated by its creator, Francois Pachet) at the IRCAM last year.

The concert was very good, very similar to a dialog between like-minded musicians in fact. And the word dialog was carefully chosen here, as it was really a musical exchange between the human and the program. If people like Lubat (and other excellent jazzmen etc.) say that this application can create good music, I tend to trust them (and my ears/eyes) more than you, sorry.

And this program was not developed to "create new musicians", but rather to *play with* other musicians. The first sentence of the continuator's user manual is : "The Continuator is a system which learns musical styles, and with which you can play interactively."

I think you (and others) took this for what it is not...

It's a great piece of software made by musicians (i.e. people who love music) for other musicians, not for greedy corporate bastards :)

Re:Fantastically complex music composition program

[ukiro]

this is pretty OT here, but here goes:

If you find FruityLoops overwhelmingly complex, never ever try Cubase or, worse yet, Logic Audio.

I Find Fruityloops to be very easy to understand in fact, so it's what I use all the time. It's not quite professional grade just yet though, but it's getting there rapidly. I have yet to come up with an idea that I find myself unable to execute in fruityloops. Even crazy stuff like seamless fading between triplets and regular 4/4 can be done quite easily, and still it's more like a music toy than a professional production tool.

Swarms

[Mostly Harmless]

The March 2003 issue of Discover Magazine had a good article on music and swarm behavior. If you think hyperscore, etc. is neat, check this out!

Starving Artists...

[hcetSJ]

Having been reduced to a roving band of minstrels, Metallica is now forced to compete with mechanical musicians which people have downloaded from the internet and printed in 3D.

Jewel is a great example

[poptones]

of why the industry is bad for music. Here's a very fine artist who signed to a label and then STOPPED PRODUCING - for more than a year while her label released every single track from her CD as a single/music video/marketing opportunity. This is an increasingly common trend in the business - produce every track as a single to get the CD back on the charts again and again - and in jewel's case it had the effect of making a talented and refreshing act into a burned out laughing stock. (Remember the SNL skit about the college kid trapped in a mountain cabin with jewel? Going homicidal after listening to her sing the same ten songs a thousand times?)

Same thing happened with Sarah McLachlan (God only knows what her new album will sound like). Same thing (again) with Alisha Keyes. It's almost better if an artist is a talentless hack because that's the only way now to be spared chronic overexposure.

Hyperscore minimalist GUI - nice!

[1davo]

I tried out Hyperscore and was impressed by the very clean GUI.

I deal with so many ugly/cluttered interfaces at work, this is like a breath of fresh air.

Take a look at the tutorial to see the screenshots. The use of colors, shapes, textures, and sizes give feedback that is very intuitive.

To reply to KewlPC's question as to why this stuff should be at Siggraph - Hyperscore is all about intelligent use of graphics.

Kudos

Toy Symphony

[PurpleBob]

Toy Symphony got really bad reviews. Sure, the technology is cool, but when you come down to it, it's still just kids banging on instruments and computers.

I've heard one listenable piece created in Hyperscore, and that was by a kid who already knew how to compose music and worked around all the stuff in the program trying to compose for him.

License for HyperScore

[Kaa]

HyperScore comes with an interesting license:

If you use this software to create any compositions or musical/graphical materials, you hereby grant M.I.T. the nonexclusive right to use any such materials for any purpose, and to allow others to do the same, without any accounting to you.

I read this as "all music composed using these tools enters public domain".

I don't think this is a good thing. Philosophically I don't like licenses for tools to attempt control over what YOU make with these tools.

Generative Art

[babbage]

It's worth mentioning the whole generative art subculture, as researchable at (predictably enough) generative.net. These people are making music & other artworks to challenge the notion that computers can't create art, by coming up with automatic processes that as a side effect of their action product music, visual art, probably even sculpture if you look around hard enough.

The idea is that, according to much conventional wisdom, "computers can't create creative, expressionistic artwork." But what is a computer program other than the pure, embodied result of some human's creative expression? If then someone creates a program to generate possibly interesting sounds or animations, is the art-piece that sound or animation, or are those merely a byproduct of the true art in the program itself?

This is the sort of "angels on pinheads" question that can get the right group of people worked up into a tremendous debate :-)

In any case, I'm willing to accept that this kind of generative work can produce interesting results.

One of the most interesting things I've read about was a Perl script that took as input the archives of a mailing list and transformed it into a 10 minute musical piece, doing things like assigning different instruments to different people, having all the messages in a particular discussion thread be played in a certain note or key, etc. The net result was that you could very tangibly visualize the cadence of time, as the tempo of the music quickened or slowed, and certain threads would produce frantic bursts of noise while certain people's "voice" could be picked out here & there across the continuum.

Arguably, this was just another way of "visually" representing the dataset; maybe a retooled version of the script could have produced some kind of mosiac or tapestry, or (more prosaically, but maybe more tantalizingly) a simple graph or chart. From that point of view, what this program did with the data was no more interesting than what a program like Excel does with spreadsheet graphs. But then you start to appreciate just how creative that must be on some level, and then start to wonder about the possibilities of expressing boring old tabular data sonically rather than visually.

Would people have caught on to Enron's game sooner if their annual reports had been presented as a four part concerto in the key of D? Maybe... :-)