RPGs - East Versus West?

Thanks to GameSpy for their Spy/Counterspy column discussing the relative advantages and disadvantages of Western and Japanese RPGs. According to GameSpy editor Benjamin Turner's less-enthusiastic view of Japanese RPGs: "I want to create my own characters instead of playing someone else's; I want to explore a world at my own pace rather than being shuffled through a pre-planned, linear progression. Most of all, I want to be able to replay a favorite game and have a very different experience." However, editor Christian Nutt's rebuttal suggests: "While there are entertaining elements to Western RPGs... the way that all of the design elements of a great Japanese RPG work in concert to offer a truly engaging experience as a whole is what really excites me the most."

Comments

Ultima 7 has yet to be surpassed...

[andrewski]

In terms of sheer depth, scope, variety, and detail U7 is still king in my mind. The ability to do almost anything silly makes me so happy.

KOTOR

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, I'll come out and say im a Japanese RPG fan, so you know where I'm coming from.

Im just playing through Star Wars: KOTOR for the second time... The first time through I was the perfect hero in every situation, and the story arc basically followed a Japanese RPG. Your character is selfless, etc, etc. With the Evil character though, I was really dissapointed. You have freedom, but it was very very limited. You become the most evil and powerful sith in the galaxy, and people will still refer to you as a member of the republic, etc. There are lots of faults with consistency and what "makes sense." Fallout did a much better job with this, I think. Western game's freedom is just another variable that can be pulled off very well or not so well. Once games get ambitious enough to really let you do anything (*crossing fingers for Fable*) I think Eastern RPG fans will be more pleased. Personally, I would rather have a completely linear story than something that is only partially open ended. You have to ask yourself, if you have freedom with THIS, why not freedom with THAT? If things get open ended enough though, and do so with a decent story line, that would be great.

A hybrid of the 2

[saia]

Each of the 2 different styles of RPGs are great in their own way, but I have only seen one game I would consider a hybrid of the 2. That game would be Legend of Mana for PSOne.

It's got the whole Japanese elements of the cutesy anime graphics and predeteremined plot lines.

The Western elements are that you choose what your character uses and by using certain skills, they develop into other skills. You also determine how the world is rebuilt and what order you choose to do side quests. You can even tell the NPCs to screw off if you want and thus end a plot line. And if you do one set of events before another, they are no longer available.

The replay value of this comes from discovering the various plot lines you miss the first time, and you will miss some.

So each time you play, the world comes out a little different and your character comes out a little different but the overall plot is still followed.

Any other hybrids between the 2 styles?

Re:blah

[Txiasaeia]

Deus Ex is a FPS with very, very strong RPG elements. I'd call it a RPG/FPS hybrid.

Freelancer is not an RPG, any more than Privateer was. It's a great game, but it's closer to an action game than an RPG.

Anachronox was great, but it's how old now? Besides, it was greatly (and obviously) influenced by JRPGs, as was Septerra Core, so much that I'd call them Eastern RPGs developed in the West.

Anarchy Online is an MMORPG; strictly speaking, not a CRPG. (This gets fuzzy, but one could argue that MMO games are in a genre by themself -- I'm not sure that the tactics used in an MMO qualifies as "role playing.")

System Shock 2: FPS with RPG elements.

Fallout Tactics: Tactical strategy set in post-apocalyptic setting, some RPG elements.

Neocron, Earth & Beyond, not sure... aren't these MMORPGS?

And Wasteland.. well, yes, there is Wasteland.

Fallout 1 and 2 were absolutely fantastic, but I've played them *how* many times since they were released?

You have to admit that this is a pretty short list, and most of these games aren't true CRPGs. The Fallout games are, Anachronox comes close, Deus Ex is fuzzy in the background, but the rest are lumped amongst action or MMO games.

All I'm saying is, what's going on here? Paradise Cracked is coming out soon, and again it's a tactical strategy game with RPG elements, but at least it's sci-fi, and Restricted Area (which might actually be, *gasp*, a sci-fi RPG!) is still quite a ways off from seeing the light of day.

I just couldn't help thinking this

[Kargan]

As I was reading the article and the responses here, I just couldn't help thinking "what about pen & paper RPGs?" I know, I know, it's not technology, it's not computers...but it could be, in the game. That's the whole point of "actual" RPGs, they can be anything and everything you want them to be. Don't like a rule the people who made the game came up with? Don't use it! Make up your own! Why not? Do whatever is the most fun for you and your friends. I dunno. Maybe I'm just a geek.

Re:I cannot STAND western RPG's.

[CashCarSTAR]

Actually I agree with you on the battle systems.

I have yet to play a WRPG that has a half-decent battle system. They all seem to spawn from the D&D ruleset, which, to be honest is boring.

Nothing gives you the options of a good JRPG I find.

Star Ocean 2, perhaps?

[Stephen Williams]

It's a Japanese RPG, with all the elements you expect (linear main plot, cuteness in spades). However, character recruitment and development is more open than in many JRPGs.

(Heehee, the first time I tried to type "JRPG", it came out as "JPEG". Fingers on autopilot!)

At the beginning of the game, you choose whether to play as the male or female lead. Some events play out differently depending on your choice. At least one secondary character is only recruitable if you play as the girl.

Recruiting some characters closes the door on others. If you recruit Ashton, you can't recruit Opera. And unless you recruit Opera, you can't recruit Ernest. Furthermore, the characters aren't just given to you; you have to explore a bit and pay attention to NPC hints in order to find some of them.

When you enter a town, the characters all split up to go shopping. You control only the lead character, and can wander around the town looking for your friends. Sometimes, an extended conversation happens which can affect the relationship between the two characters. This can ultimately affect the game's ending. (There's no guarantee that the male and female leads end up as a couple).

You can also teach skills such as cooking, alchemy, metalworking etc. to different characters. That's not compulsory; you could forego that aspect of the game completely and just concentrate on battle skills if you want. It just adds another dimension to the character customization.

-Stephen

Fallout. Fall + Out.

[LiberalApplication]

I used to feel the way you did too, until I played Fallout (okay, I played Ultima 6 and loved it too, but that was after I played Fallout, when I found it in a bargain bin). Fallout had this magical way of making you feel like you were in control, without making the consequences of your actions so bland and meaningless that you felt the control wasn't worth anything. Almost everything you did was reflected in the events around you, the way people spoke to you, and the game felt like a one-size-fits-all sock. No matter how bad your feet smelled or how deformed your toes were, it just fit.

Your dialogue options varied depending on your skills and your stats. If you were highly intelligent, you could talk circles around people. If you reduced your Int stat to one, your dialogue options would be reduced to "Ungh", "Gah", "Hrrrngh", and "Die".

If you ran around killing children in towns, you'd be labelled a childkiller, and townspeople hundreds of miles away would have heard about you and think you were a freak. You could be a hero, a slut, a pornstar, and get what you want via good or evil, or sleeping with the mobster's wife. But none of it felt meaningless because for everything you could possibly do, the developers had thousands of lines of scripted dialogue waiting to accommodate your actions.

Of course, most of the people I've gotten to play it have given up because of the game's immensely slow startup into the story, but once you're in, you'll love it.

Re:blah

[Rayonic]

Well, I don't want to get into an argument about the definition of "RPG", because nobody ever reaches a consensus on it. I was just grokking a list of sci-fi games that could be loosely-defined as an RPG, and not limiting myself to the classic definition of CRPG.

Also, does changing the perspective and battle system of an RPG suddenly mean it's not an RPG anymore? If Deus Ex is not really an RPG, then neither is Ultima Underworld. Yes, there is some action, but JRPGs mix in action all the time -- Star Ocean, Tales of Destiny, Secret of Mana, etc.

I haven't played Freelancer, but I have heard it is like an RPG. "Diablo in space" is actually what I heard. Yes, I am aware of Diablo's questionable status.

MMORPGs are, arguably, more RPG-like than any of your Fallouts or Final Fantasies. In an MMORPG you can gain an actual reputation among actual people. MMORPGs (and the MUDs that preceeded them) are much closer to the genre's pen-and-paper roots.

There are some I left out, also. There are lots of games that mix sci-fi and fantasy, like the Might and Magic series, and the early Ultimas.

I believe we also forgot to mention a little Western RPG called "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic."

Re:RPGs that combine elements of both JRPG & U

[SmallFurryCreature]

I think Planetscape Torment might fit that bill. You start out with 1 character wich you do not name, The nameless one, and a sidekick. But how you play that character is up to you and in a way that is even the goal of the game. Since you have a pretty defined and extensive past (you are someone who doesn't passover when you die you just lost youre memory but stayed in the same body) it is now up to you to decide who you really are.

One of the most important parts of the game has someone ask you "What can change the nature of a man" while the answer is open it nonetheless feels very important to answer it correctly.

The game itself made little difference on how you behaved, but it made you feel that the choices you made where nonetheless important. Very well done.