MSI's Home Theatre PC Reviewed

VL writes "MSI, long time motherboard and video card manufacturer, has upped the ante somewhat with their MSI Entertainment and Gaming (MEGA 651) PC. Like other popular SFFs, the MEGA 651 is still "cube" in appearance, and offers support for fast CPUs and an AGP slot, but it has some unique ideas that target those specifically looking into building a Home Theater PC (HTPC). "

Comments

What OS does it run?

[groove10]

I couldn't find that listed in the article. From the picture it appears that this box does not have a traditional monitor interface, so my hunch is that it's a linux box with a proprietary interface for the custom LCD they have.

Looks interesting.

Re:What OS does it run?

[generic-man]

They tested it with Windows XP, but I don't think it comes bundled with the unit. At only $281, I don't think it includes any OS. As for a "traditional monitor interface," you can hook it up to a monitor (VGA out) or a television (TV out).

The custom LCD, they say, only works when the system is powered off.

Re:What OS does it run?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't run a particular OS, since it's a regular x86 PC, only equipped with some extra hardware.

MSI ship both Windows and Linux drivers for this baby, so to answer your question -- Yes, you can run Linux on it

Re:What OS does it run?

[shird]

Take a look at a site with some better specs. As you can see, its got the "designed for MS Windows" logo. Plus all the standard interfaces. The LCD screen is probably linked directly to the hardware CD player, so most likely isn't even exposed to software.

Our local PC shop has had these in stock for a while. Pretty cool for a entertainment box, though probably not worth the cost.

Re:What OS does it run?

[shird]

Something which that link points out but doesnt appear to be very evident in the original link is the support for FM Radio by the box. This I think is one of the biggest features for such an entertainment machine, which is often overlooked by other setups.

Re:What OS does it run?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any OS you want to install. The CD player/FM radio runs without booting any OS, its not revealed whether that's BIOS code running or something else.

And a review posted 2 months ago claimed its fan is too noisy... as usual /. is late with the news and no-one can be bothered doing a simple web search ;)

Re:What OS does it run?

[jo42]

Look harder. It has a VGA connector and a free AGP slot.

Q: What OS does any PC run? A: Whatever you install on it...

Eep

[Sir Haxalot]

Site slashdotted alright and no google cache :/

Re:Eep

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this informative? I just read the review and I don't think it was slashdotted. =/

What's the fuzz about?

[jabbadabbadoo]

My PC already has all those things. Rebranding, anyone?

Cheeze.

Re:What's the fuzz about?

[RMH101]

did it cost you 200UKP for the barebones, and is it tiny and neat? if this was a post about a new linux distro, would you be saying "but mine does that already"? it's just a cool gadget, ok - a nice SFF box that you can buy to out-geek the guy with the shuttle cube

Re:What's the fuzz about?

[benjiboo]

On the contrary, I think there's a real niche for something like this if executed correctly. The current generation have grown up around file sharing and electronic media, and for some being able to set up a system out of the box with no fiddling is an attractive and more natural proposition against a CD player seperate (which is it's likeley competitor, rather than a PC.)

I guess the important thing is the price point. These devices can mainly add value in their convenience, something which we're only likely to pay a certain amount for....

Re:What's the fuzz about?

[henele]

My PC already has all those things.

From what I have read it can play you MP3s and CDs via the box's front interface whilst the OS isn't booted, which I'd of thought your PC would have trouble doing...

I'm not sure of the value of that function, but I can think of student and family scenarios where that would be useful...

Suprised that Verizon is good

[CrazyTalk]

I had a Verizon phone, and eventually had to dump it. I lived in a Verizon "dead zone" where within about two block of my house (I live in a major city!) there was no Verizon service at all. Everyone else I know with a Verizon phone had the same problem in my neighborhood. Once I switched to AT&T, everything was fine. Guess that annoying "Can you hear me now " guy was too busy hanging out at the beach to stop by a place where people actually live.

Re:Suprised that Verizon is good

[CrazyTalk]

Don't be surprised - I havent had my morning coffee yet. My bad.

Re:Suprised that Verizon is good

[lordDallan]

I think you meant to reply to the previous article friend.

Can you click on the right link now? How about now? Good.

Re:Suprised that Verizon is good

[CrazyTalk]

As I replied to the less-polite poster who also pointed that out to me - oops, my bad. Damn, there goes what little Karma I have!

Old news

[gvdkamp]

M.S.I. already announced this Product during the CeBit in March...

See their Press Release

Re:Old news

[lordfoul]

Did you notice the word "Reviewed" in the headline ??

Shame they don't use one

[Anonymous Coward]

... to run their webserver, that could use a fast CPU right now. /.ed with one comment. That's embarrassing.

Cube?

[diospadre]

You gotta love how companies like Shuttle, MSI, and Nintendo are slowly changing the definition of the word cube into "randomly sized box."

Then again, the movie changed it to "crap", so maybe this is a good thing.

Re:Cube?

[Ominous Coward]

I'd say that the GameCube is about as close to a cube as any console's ever come. GameSlightlyOffACubePlusHandle is a bit too long of a machine name.

Do Shuttle and MSI call their SFF boxes cubes, or was that the article's author calling them cubes?

Re:Cube?

[CommieOverlord]

Are refering to the little Canadian 'Cube' movie, wherein a bunch of people are stuck inside a giant cube-like death-trap? Cause that was a great little movie. The sequel " Cube Squared: Hypercube" sucked though.

Re:Cube?

[Josh Booth]

Can I have mine in Hypercube form, please?

Re:Cube?

[gid]

No where on Shuttle's site do they refer to any of their XPCs as "cubes". That's the slashdot story submiter's label.

I do wonder why they make HTPC's cubiod in shape. I'd much rather have one the size of an amplifier or dvd player and black that's designed to fit in my stereo rack, not grey and stick out like a sore thumb, screaming "HEY, I'M AN UGLY, NOISY, GREY COMPUTER, LOOK AT ME".

Re:Cube?

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:Cube?

[mydigitalself]

you may want to look at someline along the lines of this. although its a bit pricey for my liking...

Re:Cube?

[mistermark]

I agree... I have standard formfactor audio-equipment and I would like my HTPC to be the same. Now it's a black ATX Midi-tower case standing next to my stereo and it looks like shit... but I'm looking into getting myself a black 19" rack, but I find them a little pricey still... But well, maybe I run into a cheap 19"-rack and have to paint it myself... we'll see

But does it run MythTV?

[laird]

This looks like pretty hardware (aside from the pathetic lack of TV in/out in a "home theater" PC) ... but the million dollar question is whether it will run MythTV (www.mythtv.org), the open source TiVo-like system? MythTV is a fantastic project, but it's pretty picky about the hardware it will run on.

I only made it two pages into the review before the site was slashdotted, so apologies if they documented the software later in the review...

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[ForceOfWill]

pathetic lack of TV in/out in a "home theater" PC

Not sure about TV out, but it has TV in if you want it. Read the chart on the first page:

TV Tuner Function MS-8606 TV Tuner Card (Optional)

RTA.

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[iainl]

As its basically just a fancy-form-factor PC, complete with AGP slot, both of your problems could be solved.

They were testing it with Windows XP, but there's nothing to stop you dropping in an appropriately featured AGP video card and running MythTV, Linux or anything else you fancied. Personally, I'm thinking that a MAME bootdisk coupled with decent USB joypad would be quite natty for it.

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[Zemran]

MythTV is a fantastic project,

Sounds good :)

but it's pretty picky about the hardware it will run on.

Sounds bad

a bit of a contradiction...

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[evilviper]

MythTV is a fantastic project

Well, that's complete and total bull... You must never have used it.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=73411&cid=6603 612

but it's pretty picky about the hardware it will run on.

You lost me... As long as you have a V4L compatible Tuner card, and a videocard that supports XV, what the hell else do you need? Feel free to tell me what MythTV has been "picky about" in your experience.

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[laird]

I _did_ read the article. I still think it's lame that in a home theatre PC you still can't get TV in/out built in, but have to use up _both_ of your slots to add them. Vendors should build in the things that everyone will use, and for a HTPC tv in/out should be standard...

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[laird]

Actually, I've built a couple of MythTV boxes, and I've been running it on a dedicated box of my own for two months now, and I'll stand by what I said. It's a fantatic project.

Yes, it's not completely consumer ready yet (it should manage disk space better, a change which is in CVS but not a packaged release yet) but it's astoundingly good for anyone who likes fiddling with these sorts of things.

And in building MythTV's, I've found that it's very picky about the TV tuner card (Only the Hauppauge 250 and 350 work constently, so not the card that is in the MSI box reviewed here, nor the WinTV card -- which with a tuner and TV out would be ideal), moderately picky about the TV out/video card (if you want to use hardware decoding, for example, and settings for overscan, etc., are tricky), and the situation with IR blasters is a real mess (i.e. nothing you can buy works consistently, but there are schematics so that you can build your own). Also, finding out that Red Hat doesn't recognise the motherboard ethernet on nForce2 motherboards, so I had to use a slot for ethernet on the otherwise very nice little (MicroATX) M7NCG motherboard I used. (OK, that's not technically MythTV's problem, but...) And then there was that weird problem where playing video's (which launches MPlayer) didn't switch focus back to mythfrontend, so the remote, etc., all died. This was worked around by configuring the system to automatically force focus to wherever the mouse is (which is a hack to force focus back to mythfrontend).

I certainly don't mean to be negative about the project -- it's a fantastic project, and is amazingly good given its youth. It's not quite ready for normal consumers. But for what it is, it's astoundingly good -- it looks very slick, almost always works wonderfully, and is completely open so you can make it do anything you like... I think that in six months, people will be shipping it in products.

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[wizard992]

As for the TV in/out...

There is an assumption that when you are talking about an HTPC, you are not going to be using TV/SVGA outputs to deliver a signal to your monitor of choice. Most people who are into HTPC are using high end HDTV and plasma units, so they will be using Component and Digital inputs for the monitor option. HTPC really isn't ready for something like this IMO, there are too many variables in the signal going to the monitor, which video card will work with your monitor, proper adjustments for horizontal/vertical sync, etc. I would not buy a package that claimed to work like this one does at this point, unless you wanted a lowest common denominator system.

Re:But does it run MythTV?

[evilviper]

I've found that it's very picky about the TV tuner card (Only the Hauppauge 250 and 350 work constently,

Hang on, those are hardware MPEG-2 encoding cards... That's entirely different. First of all, MythTV accesses them directly, rather than using V4L like it would with normal TV cards (so it's not surprising it's picky about them). Also, you probably managed to avoid all the problems that MythTV has by not needing to use Myth for the encoding...

Still, even if you manage to avoid Myth's encoding problems, that's only half of it. Seeking during playback is very slow and clunky. The interface is difficult to navigate. With only about 50 channels, the TV-Guide took forever to scroll through once... Let alone the dozens of times it would normally take to scroll through a full day of listings. It's not very responsive, it's ratings system is awful to try and use (it is new, so I'll cut them some slack on that feature). Video recorded by anything other than Myth have to be played-back through the Movie plugin, which is very unstable, and screws everything up because you have to remap every key to work with mplayer, and even then, it doesn't have the same features you have watching MythTV, so there is no consistency what-so-ever.

moderately picky about the TV out/video card (if you want to use hardware decoding, for example, and settings for overscan, etc., are tricky)

I had no problems at all... Insert NVidia card, install NVidia drivers, done. Is there any other brand of card that does TV-out under Linux?

and the situation with IR blasters is a real mess

That's true, but it's a LIRC issue, and doesn't have a thing to do with MythTV.

I certainly don't mean to be negative about the project -- it's a fantastic project, and is amazingly good given its youth.

Well I DID mean to be negative about the project, although I agree that, for how young it is, it's current functionality isn't bad. But with that said, it's not as if I can just go use the otherLinux PVR software, since there is none. I would suggest you read the post I linked to.

Huhhhh?

[GeneralEmergency]

"The speakers are each rated for 3W RMS"

Has Richard Stallman become so noisy that they've named a unit of measure after him? 8^)

.

Re:Huhhhh?

[Slack3r78]

You may already have known this and just used this as an opportunity to crack an RMS joke, but for those that don't - RMS is one of several ways that the maximum output of a piece of stereo equipment is rated. In general RMS is the rating you want to look for - basically think of it as how loud you can crank them before the signal starts to distort.

It's especially important to watch for this with computer speakers as manufacturers have a tendency to rate these units with PMPO which makes the units sound far more impressive than they actually are. "1000W" desktop speakers for $6.99 anyone? :)

Re:Huhhhh?

[G-funk]

The speakers are each rated for 3W RMS

In other news, the CPU runs at a rip-snorting 12.3 Mhz, and the Hard disk has an impressive 10Mb storage capacity

Re:Huhhhh?

[lennert]

Actually RMS, is short for Root Mean Square. It's a standard power measurement unit.

Re:Huhhhh?

[dillkvast]

basically think of it as how loud you can crank them before the signal starts to distort

Actually RMS = Root Mean Square. Usually one would see time variant voltages and currents given in RMS values or amplitude value. The RMS value is the DC value that would yeild the same powerdissipation in an ohmic load as the time variant signal does. For pure harmonic signals the RMS value is A/sqrt(2) where A is the amplitude value. RMS has noting to do with distortion, but simply denotes the power that would be dissipated in a pure ohmic load.

The speaker and amp manufacturers are very creative when it comes to power values, and you should be more critical that just looking for the three letters RMS.

Re:Huhhhh?

[Slack3r78]

Ah, I'm just a dumb guitarist. With guitar amps, I've always heard it refered to as the maximum load before signal distortion begins to occur. The two might be related, or I might just have been mislead. =)

Re:Huhhhh?

[dillkvast]

Ah, I'm just a dumb guitarist. With guitar amps, I've always heard it refered to as the maximum load before signal distortion begins to occur. The two might be related, or I might just have been mislead. =)

There will always be some distortion. The value to look for is THD which states the total harmonic distortion i percent (at some power value). When a system isn't perfectly linear (which no physical system is) in responce it will add unwantet harmonic components. THD is the power of the unwantetd components to the power of the signal.

If the RMS power value is combined with some value for THD at that power which is below say 1-2% you are right, because distortion below 2% is hard to hear.

There might be some standard way to specify RMS values which implies some THD value, but i wouldt trust that blindly.

Re:Huhhhh?

[Slack3r78]

There might be some standard way to specify RMS values which implies some THD value, but i wouldt trust that blindly.

I think that may be the case, as similarly rated equipment that I've heard seems to have about equal output levels. But this is only anecdotal and obviously in no way scientific.

And thanks for the info. While I wrote myself off as "a dumb guitarist," EE is one of (far too many) fields that I have an interest in, so I'm always more than happy to learn what I can. =)

Re:Huhhhh?

[Kevin DeGraaf]

RMS is one of several ways that the maximum output of a piece of stereo equipment is rated.

You were going to actually explain what RMS stands for, and what the term means, right?

Shamelessly ripped from whatis.com:

root-mean-square

Also see peak and peak-to-peak.

In a direct current (DC) circuit, voltage or current is simple to define, but in an alternating current (AC) circuit, the definition is more complicated, and can be done in several ways. Root-mean-square (rms) refers to the most common mathematical method of defining the effective voltage or current of an AC wave.

To determine rms value, three mathematical operations are carried out on the function representing the AC waveform:

(1) The square of the waveform function (usually a sine wave) is determined.

(2) The function resulting from step (1) is averaged over time.

(3) The square root of the function resulting from step (2) is found.

In a circuit whose impedance consists of a pure resistance, the rms value of an AC wave is often called the effective value or DC-equivalent value. For example, if an AC source of 100 volts rms is connected across a resistor, and the resulting current causes 50 watts of heat to be dissipated by the resistor, then 50 watts of heat will also be dissipated if a 100-volt DC source is connected to the resistor.

For a sine wave, the rms value is 0.707 times the peak value, or 0.354 times the peak-to-peak value. Household utility voltages are expressed in rms terms.? A so-called "117-volt" AC circuit carries about 165 volts peak (pk), or 330 volts peak-to-peak (pk-pk).

want one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get it barebones for $279 at Zeus PC...

I wonder...

[i8urtaco]

When and if these things will replace the more traditional "home theater in a box" sets, and if so, does that mean that companies like RCA or Panasonic will move away from making propietary components in favor of making "small pc's in a box that can be used for a home theater"? Will this force these companies to make a switch to small pc manufacturers?

The noise...

[Basje]

What I'm interested is not so much how it looks, but how much noise it makes. Do how does it hold up??

It's really spoiling the fun when you're watching a DVD and are distracted by the fans trying to cool an overheating proc in a cool looking but hot running too small enclosure.

The fact that a fan deaf overclocker tells me it's quiet isn't really informative.

Re:The noise...

[Zemran]

Have you looked at the Mac ? Serious ability without the noise. I have not owned one yet but I am thinking about getting one next especially now they run *nix.

Re:The noise...

[Lumpy]

never had a Real home theatre have you? The fans running in my Overhead projector are quite loud.

what is the solution?

turn up the Volume. if you crank it up a little bit that fan overhead and the fans in the bottom of my equipment rack dont ruin any movie or DVD and I nor anyone coming over become easily destracted by a constand low whirr..

fans are a part of life, if you have a projector for the real theatre experience you can never get away from the fan noise... so something making noise way over in the equipment rack is a non-issue.

Re:The noise...

[VPN3000]

I don't think you will be watching a DVD on this 'media PC'. I didn't see anything in the specs about it having a DVD drive.

Personally, I think this is your typical cheapy .tw fleamarket-ish product that will appeal to people who do not understand what they are buying. To those people, I can see this quickly becoming a CD just an expensive CD player.

I priced out building a miniATX entertainment system with quality parts and water or peltier cooling for noise concerns. Using a Lian Li miniATX desktop case, ATI AIW, audio, dvd drive, etc the price works out to around $650. I wish I had my list with me so I could be more precise. The keyboard and mouse combo I wanted has not been released yet, so I'm waiting till September to build this baby.

I see this device not catching on because once you drop 256MB ram, a P4 CPU and heatsink in it, you'll have spent about the same as for a custom job you could assemble yourself with superior components.

The only area I've not done much reading on is how to set it up to boot 'n go. I am assuming there are media linux distros that boot up and go straight to a nice media gui. I know the same can be accomplished by switching your shell in Win32 to whatever media application you want when the system boots, too.

Any suggestions on software or related forums would be a quality addition to this threat, imo.

Re:The noise...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Have you looked at the Mac ? Serious ability without the noise.

Most iMacs are passively cooled, but the G4 tower and the eMac are pretty noisy.

Re:The noise...

[Mr. Cancelled]

I don't think you will be watching a DVD on this 'media PC'. I didn't see anything in the specs about it having a DVD drive.

Well, I didn't see anything in the main article myself, as it was Slashdotted before I could get to it, but if you'd have followed the link to Zeus computers posted earlier in this thread (here), you'd have seen that it indeed does support an "optical drive". Last I checked, DVD drives were indeed optical.

I priced out building a miniATX entertainment system... the price works out to around $650

That sounds about right. I built a PVR system about a year and a half ago and spent around $600-$700, using an AMD 1600+ CPU, and a 8500DV video card.

My system still works great (using the awsome Showshifter software to drive the entire thing (Check it out here), but now that I've upgraded my primary system to include a DVD burner (Sony 4x - Nice!), I find my system struggling to record at 704x480 resolution, so I've began to look into a CPU upgrade. This system however might meet my needs. Just toss a P4 CPU into it along w/my existing memory and video card and it looks like I'm good to go.

I certainly don't see it as the over-priced CD Player that you appear to.

One area I would love to know more about is the periphreals... While a shuttle job controller is very cool, how would it tie in with existing software (The aforementioned Showshifter, or even Freevo, for example).

How would the Tuner tie in w/the system, or does it? Perhaps it's just a standalone tune w/audio outs to plug into a soundcard??

If anyone has more details regarding these items, or the heat dispertion of this unit, please post them.

Re:The noise...

[ryanvm]

It's really spoiling the fun when you're watching a DVD and are distracted by the fans trying to cool an overheating proc

When I was trying to quiet the fans in my router at home I tried a number of things: underclocking so I could remove the CPU fan, rubber vibration dampers, flash-memory storage instead of disks, etc.

However, one of the most surprisingly effective measures that I took to reduce noise was to remove the little guard that covers the outside entrance of the PSU fan. You wouldn't think it would matter much, but cutting (fatigue bending actually) that sucker off there makes a huge difference! I guess the air turbulence it introduces is pretty noisy. Of course I get "bit" by the fan every now and then when I absentmindedly reach back there to mess with the cables, but it's been worth it.

Re:The noise...

[VPN3000]

I just live by the "You get what you pay for" theory; Five finger discounts excluded.

It just sounds like there's a lot of stuff here that likely doesn't tie in together all that well. Low price == cheap parts. I could be wrong here, but would be interested in some feedback from someone who owns one of these things.

Re:The noise...

[deadcasuals]

The only area I've not done much reading on is how to set it up to boot 'n go. I am assuming there are media linux distros that boot up and go straight to a nice media gui.

Two of the most popular Linux-based PVR's are Freevo and MythTV.

http://freevo.sourceforge.net/
http://www.mytht v.org/

Re:The noise...

[Anonymous Coward]

I built one of these thing a few days ago, and it's not a bad system.

It ended up costing about GBP 390 for the barebones system + a cheap Celeron + HDD + DVD + 256Mb RAM.

The good point is that it is very quiet. The PSU fan is almost silent, and the heatsink fan only comes on when the system gets too hot (and even then, it's not too noisy). In fact the most intrusive noise when watching DVDs is from the DVD player itself (I got a cheap one!).

The not so good points are that it does run a bit hot - the cpu sits about 50 C in normal use and it is a tad plasticky. The jog dial is a bit nasty in operation compared to an old Sony CD player I used to have.

The only other issue I have with it is the lack of a built in tuner. There is an optional MSI tuner that seems to have some sort of extra functionality through the remote control, but I'm not entirely sure of the details. (It might be that you can use the tuner without having to boot the PC, which would be nice). You can always add a normal tuner card via the PCI slot, however.

The front panel functions aren't available to the PC, so the jog dial can't be used in software (although that would be pretty cool)

Re:The noise...

[Quikah]

what is the solution?

Build a hush box?

So that's a "cube" is it?

[Dj]

In other news, world found to be flat, balls no longer spheres, /. duplicate postings declared square.

Re:So that's a "cube" is it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The world is flat, and my balls aren't quite perfectly spherical. I don't think that yours should be either. Maybe you should go to a urologist about that, just to check.

Been around a while...

[tbase]

I've seen this at Computer Geeks for some time now. Even better, they also have it at newegg.

Pretty cool how you can use the radio, CD and mp3 playing capabilities without booting up the PC. But they say due to the proprietary nature (I assume they're talking about these features) that only MSI optical drives a guaranteed to work.

Re:Been around a while...

[schmink182]

Support Contact: Geeks

I love the sense of humor folks at newegg have these days. I'd offer a complaint that this doesn't help Joe AverageUser, but it's a "geek special," so I guess it doesn't matter.

Re:Been around a while...

[tbase]

Actually, you're reading that from the Computer Geeks web site - newegg is the second link. The support contact listed on the Computer Geeks web site means they supply support. Sorry for the confusion.

Pricing aside (newegg is about $20 cheaper), having dealt with both, I'd recommend newegg for the speed they get items out. I haven't had to deal with Computer Geeks customer service, but newegg's is unbeatable.

Propreitary CD-Rx/DVD-Rx only? No thanks.

[Ride-My-Rocket]

Due to proprietary mechanical design, MSI only guarantees the compatibility of the MEGA PC with MSI's own Optical Storage Devices:
DVD-ROM: MSI 16x DVD-ROM (MS-8216)
CD-RW: MSI 52x24x52 CD-RW (MS-CR52-A2)

Sorry, but the word 'proprietary' gives me a not-so-fresh feeling. Yes, it's good that there's competition to Shuttle's XPC, but I consider this to be a huge strike against the MEGA 651. Especially considering how similar the feature sets and prices for each SFF box are.

Well with any hardware...

[AntiPasto]

... you can make an HTPC. There are lots of projects out there... (isn't there a linux distro for a media jukebox?)

For Windows, check out myHTPC... I've been playing with that for some time. Its got a good community, getting ready for a second generation, and works well with my older ATI all-in wonder! Quite a fun thing to do, and my wife appreciates the outcome!

What about component video?

[ShadeARG]

It amazes me how every time a HTPC is mentioned, it always lacks compenent video output. This is the year of HD after all, let's make use of it.

Re:What about component video?

[slaker]

ATI's upper-end All-in-Wonder cards have a component/HDTV add-on you can purchase for like $30. AFAIK, there is no other video card that supports component output. Maybe one of the high-end cards from Hauppauge?

Re:What about component video?

[iainl]

Its certainly a valid point - after all, I despair at the fact that DScaler does such a stunning job at deinterlacing on the fly from my laserdisc player, but is effectively useless for any of my other components which output RGB thought Scart. This is for input, though.

But many (most?) HD displays will take your traditional 15-pin VGA connector without complaint, so component out isn't the biggie for me on output that input is.

Re:What about component video?

[ShadeARG]

I was thinking more along the lines of integrated component video. There are VGA to component converters around, but they cost between $130-175 USD. It just really surprises me that it hasn't been done yet.

Re:What about component video?

[henele]

It has AGP and PCI slots, I'd of thought it could be added later?

I think people are over shooting who this is aimed at - I think the majority of it's sales will be OEM, to people who were buying a PC and for a bit more money get the cute 'lifestyle' features - the component people will buy different case/mobos which specifically hit their needs...

Re:What about component video?

[Cyno]

It amazes me how every time a HTPC is mentioned, it always lacks compenent video output.

Now would be a good time to thank the MPAA and RIAA for all they have done for us.

Re:What about component video?

[captaineo]

More important I would say is an NTSC/PAL video output that does NOT consist of a scan converter hooked up to the regular VGA video card. NTSC/PAL and HDTV have vastly different signal requirements than VGA (interlacing, YCbCr vs RGB, etc). A scan converter will produce some sort of approximation of a real NTSC/PAL signal, but if you compare e.g. a DVD playing through a VGA scan converter against the component or S-video out from a set-top DVD player, the VGA out looks like a poor imitation.

I would love to see a commodity video card with a dedicated NTSC/PAL out driven by a hardware MPEG-2 decoder. (NOT simply a software decoder that scales video to the frame buffer and then scan converts it)

Re:What about component video?

[Wesley Felter]

Component is so last year. DVI is the way to go for HD.

Re:What about component video?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

That doesn't exactly help the existing installed base of, IIRC, about three million HD-ready sets that have component in, not to mention the plethora of non-HD sets that also have component in.

Color

[slaker]

All my stereo components have a matte black or champagne finish. Not only that but they all mount in a 19" rack, especially the HTPC.

I like the shoebox formfactor but if MSI is serious about it as a home theater component, they could at least go with a similar color scheme. Or maybe just less orange.

Re:Propreitary CD-Rx/DVD-Rx only? No thanks.

[RMH101]

I'd presume this is because the opto drive has to be able to spin up and be controlled without the PC being on - this probably either uses some new features on the drive, or more likely depends on some ones in the standard that other manufacturer's have since dropped.
It'll only affect the cool "play CDs with the PC off" bit, nothing else. It's not imposing DRM on your MP3's*

ric

obSlashdotAntiMS: "We'll leave the OS to do that"

Going to need Flight Deck head gear

[mustangsal66]

With all the computer equipment in the family room, I already need ear protection.

Fan on the Replay TV, fan on the Playstation, Fan on the 4 computers at the desk, Fan in the stereo, fan on the damn DVD player...

I'm going deaf, but they want to protect the electronics in the $45 DVD player...

snip snip... turn AC up a bit...

Take off those blinkers...

[Zemran]

It's just a box

You chose the OS that you put on the system when you have chosen your CPU, hard disk, CD/DVD drive, memory etc.

Any plans for an AMD unit?

[Slack3r78]

In typical /. fashion, I haven't RTFA, but are there any plans for an AMD based unit? While I understand that the P4 performs better when it comes to MPEG4 encoding, the fact remains that as of this posting, the cheapest 533MHz FSB P4 I'm pricing is a 2.4GHz at $164, which doesn't help those of us looking to build a similar unit on the cheap.

One of these things with, say, a $70 XP 2200+ slapped in it could make for a very nice set top multimedia box for a relatively low amout of outlay.

Re:Any plans for an AMD unit?

[Anonymous Coward]

One of these things with, say, a $70 XP 2200+ slapped in it could make for a very nice set top multimedia box for a relatively low amout of outlay

You can just slap in a cheap Celeron however.

Re:Any plans for an AMD unit?

[Slack3r78]

Except a Celeron in the range of the 2200+ is going to be a good bit slower considering that at that point, AMDs were still outpacing the P4 at a given rating. And the celeron is more expensive. =)

Exactly

[SuperKendall]

To me, an HTPC really means:

HDTV in/out
video recording for HDTV and normal TV.
Component or RGB out (for projectors)
component in and built in line doubler (for progressive out from video devices that do not support progressive).

An HTPC should offer features well above those of normal devices like TIVO, not make you wonder if you should buy a TIVO and an A/V receiver instead.

Re:obligatory pedantic brit

[fuali]

a) 'theatre' is the variant spelling of 'theater'. That is unless you spell color, colour.

b) According to Merriam-Webster: theater also means - "a building or area for showing motion pictures"...
...hence the term 'Home Theater'.

If you are going to act smart, at least try to be smart.

RTFA

[Zemran]

It will tell you :p

Re:RTFA

[Slack3r78]

But this wouldn't be /. if I didn't ask questions before reading the article! =)

the article changed my mind

[514x0r]

at first i thought this was a nicely packaged cheap computer with an fm tuner......
now it looks like a poorly packaged cheap computer with an fm tuner....nothing that couldn't be built easily for less.

Argh!

[Dark Lord Seth]

Without a subwoofer, there simply isn't enough bass to make music listening, let alone gaming, sound convincing.

Let's face it, floppy drives are useless

Yes, it sounds unbelievable, but there are a lot of people without broadband

Something useful, like displaying music info or system temperatures would have been nice

Did anyone else laugh so hard they had to cry? The worthless comparative graphs were amusing too. Seriously though... Some people should be removed from the internet and never, EVER, be allowed to touch a computer again. The internet is a wonderful thing in the way it grants everyone the oppurtunity to make oneself heard. Sadly, this also applies to politicians, overclockers, script kiddies and other subhumans :(

ugly ugly ugly

[BobTheLawyer]

it looks like the worst of 80s hi-fi designs, complete with garish colour scheme (orange!) and pointlessly large LCD display.

The standard black hi-fi units are boring, but this is actively offensive.

Great idea, though.

Re:ugly ugly ugly

[agent dero]

This is slightly off-topic, but what about a 1U or 2U rackmount case from Antec or such? I figure that would be great to slip a HTPC into, and then put feet on it, and slip it in there with the DVD Player and Radio-Amp.

I figure using a rackmount design, you'd get that nice black you want, and you can put the hardware you want in there, hell, you could even have a dual CPU redhat box serving a web site, and playing back DVD's at the same time >-)

Re:obligatory pedantic brit

[slaker]

Mirriam-Webster are the same republican wankers who say that Nuke-u-ler is an acceptable pronunciation of nu-klee-ar.

If you're going to go looking up things in dictionaries, at least take the time to find an unabridged OED.

Good Review

[danielems]

see Tom's Hardware Guide for a really good review of this HTPC and three others.

Bad shape for a HTPC

[Genjurosan]

First, the shape of the unit is terrible for a HTPC.. it would barely fit in most HT racks. A HTPC should conform to the fat and wide standard that every other home entertainment device has for ages. Yes Virginia, there is a reason they all look generally the same!

Second, it only has a 200W power supply!!!!! Umm.. my AIW 9700 Pro just about eats up all of that. That is VERY lacking when it comes to power supplies these days.

Third, What the hell is this statement about?

"Due to proprietary mechanical design, MSI only guarantees the compatibility of the MEGA PC with MSI's own Optical Storage Devices:
DVD-ROM: MSI 16x DVD-ROM (MS-8216)
CD-RW: MSI 52x24x52 CD-RW (MS-CR52-A2)"

Some how CD drives and DVD-ROM(not an optical storage device, it's an optical read device) can't be trusted to work since the shape of the system is different? Uhhh... that's a load of crap.

Fourth, It's a bit unclear if the annoyingly bright screen will be on when playing a DVD. The author of the article seems to think that HTPC users want an obnoxious screen dancing and doing other crap? Uhhhh... no.

In summary, this guy and MSI both seem to be missing the point. I quote, "If you're gaming...." Also, he doesn't ever actually integrate the unit into a HT setup, nor does he actually playback a DVD (according to article).

This box seems better suited to be a fancy media player and not a HTPC. Anyone can take a look over at avsforum and realize that the HTPC should be silent and inconspicous.

FYI, my HTPC is also my working PC(which isn't my desire); however, it's in a different room. My HT has zero exposed units... all you see is the TV and the speakers. Now if I had all my units near my TV, I wouldn't pick this unit as an HTPC.

Re:Bad shape for a HTPC

[dat00ket]

"Some how CD drives and DVD-ROM(not an optical storage device, it's an optical read device) can't be trusted to work since the shape of the system is different? Uhhh... that's a load of crap."

Not crap. MSI drives have the added feature of being able to play CDs/DVDs without the computer being turned on. A very useful feature for a living room style computer used as a DVD player and stereo. A feature not all drives have, so this isn't just a pathetic attempt to make you buy their products.

Re:Bad shape for a HTPC

[Cruciform]

AlienWare sells a Shuttle based system that has a 200 watt power supply as well, and I wouldn't consider them to be that stupid when it comes to building rigs.
Could it be that having most of the hardware integrated into the mainboard that used to require PCI slots uses less power?

Re:Bad shape for a HTPC

[Genjurosan]

Informative yes; however, I feel that most people that work with HTPCs also have a few large hard drives and have ripped their own movies to disk. This way we can output these movies in 1080i and put the ever growing collection of discs away in a closet.

A HTPC is much more than a simple DVD drive. If that were all it was for, then I'd simply stick with a DVD player and be done with it.

BTW, I still think it's crap. Why would they go as far to say that the warranty wouldn't be honored if you placed a non MSI drive in it? That's the crap was speaking of. They should honor the warranty no matter what drive you place in it, don't you agree?

Been watching this product since it was announced.

[Anonymous Coward]

and agree that it's a pretty cool product that will fit well into a living room as an entertainment oriented PC. If fact I'd really like to replace the Compaq Deskpro I have in my living room... it's just kinda big and I'm running out of space for other components.

If there is a version 2 of this product I would like to see support for SATA, Serial ATA since the smaller cables would allow for more airflow inside the case. I would also like to see one based on an Intel chipset. Boards based on SIS chipsets have given me too much grief when trying to put Linux on them with filesystem corruption and unstable performace. I could get around this by putting in a HighPoint ATA card as I've done on a few SIS systems I've been forced to use but for the limited space in a SFF case this is just not suitable.

Another thing, how about some nice wood inserts for the case trim on thr front??? Orange is better than green but wood trim would be nicer...

I also prefer slot load DVD drives and the flip open cover won't work for these. How about an alternate bezel and mounting position for slot loading drives?

Also no AMD please, the box runs hot enough from what I understand and have seen at a local retailer's display model. Yes, this thing does look pretty neat when set up. If you aren't as picky as I am you'll be happy with one of these.

From an owner...

[CerealFan]

(I can't get to this article, it's been /.ed, so I don't know how much of this is a repeat.) My friend and I ordered one just before it came out about 2.5 months ago and we got it after a few weeks of delays. The orange version is the Intel, and an AMD version is slated to come out (I'm pretty sure it will be green). The fan goes out the side, not the back like an XPC, but other than that it's a normal computer and can use any CD/DVD drive. The cords are cut to exactly the right lengths which makes assembling less than fun, for example, you need to mount the hard drive upside down.

The proprietary drives that they mention is so that you can play radio/audio CD/MP3 CD when the power to the computer part is off - the small amount of power that is drawn while the computer is plugged in is kept in a small area and used for the optical drives at low speeds, the LCD display in the front, and the audio. Those MSI drives that they recommend just use very little power (and give them more $$$).

We had it set up to act like a Windows Tivo (ATI AiW)/jukebox/internet console with a wireless network and monitor output (display 1) and directly to a tv (display 2) which worked really well (especially with ZoomPlayer), and we're going to try to put Linux on it next week or so along with MythTV. (The manual says that future versions will come with MSI's own media player/tv recorder software.)

It's pretty quiet and sitting in an air conditioned room - and thus hasn't overheated yet, but a review we saw before mentioned that cooling was definitely an issue. The PCI cards go directly in front of the cpu fan (brilliant) but if you get half-height cards it probably wouldn't be an issue at all.

The best part is that it looks much more like a home theater component than the XPC, but I think it was about US$50 more than a top Shuttle.

Re:From an owner...

[DaveOf9thKey]

The orange version is the Intel, and an AMD version is slated to come out (I'm pretty sure it will be green).

Does that mean the AMD version is decaf? Or is it the other way around? I never can remember...

Any information about the AMD version

[Anonymous Coward]

The AMD version of this barebone was supposed to be available in July, but has been canceled.

Has anybody got any information on when it is supposed to be available. The SIS chipset for the Intel version totally sucks, the AMD version had a better one.

Maybe they will make a version with a nforce chipset.

Also, has anybody got Linux installed and working on these box, especially the with remote control, which is supposed to work only with Windows XP ?

Interesting but Disappointing

[truffle]

Like many geeks I'm interested in getting some kind of component PC to handle my audio and video. This product is interesting, but it doesn't quite provide what's needed (which doesn't detract from the product, just means it doesn't meet my needs).

I'm looking for a component PC that:
- runs linux (not some customized version, just regular debian)
- has audio and svideo in/out
- has cute little component system type nobs and a remote
- plays my mp3 collection and can be controlled by the remote
- plays my video collection and can be controlled by the remote
- can record video to the hard disk like a PVR or ideally a TiVo (ideally with an mpeg4 encoder built in)

I think we're close but I haven't seen something that quite does this. In particular I think the missing component is runs debian and integrates with remote. This may seem a bit weird but, besides all the audio and video stuff, I expect to do a lot more with my linux PC and I don't want to be stuck with non-debian linux.

Re:Interesting but Disappointing

[drewbradford]

I appreciate your devotion to Debian. Fortunately for you it looks like DEBIAN CAN NOW RUN ON AN x86!

That's right! Debian Woody is actually now being distributed for the x86 architecture.

This product is a standard Pentium 4 x86 box.

Re:Interesting but Disappointing

[truffle]

This device is not just an x86 box it has a number of peripherels:
- LCD display
- remote
- various knobs

Unless these are supported on debian by existing linux multimedia software, it's not that useful.

Re:obligatory pedantic brit

[fyonn]

yes, but doesn't the OED also define the word "racialist" when we all know the real word is "racist" and the other word should be stamped out?

dave

sfftech.com's review

[henele]

Can be found here (SFF standing for Small Form Factor).

They also have information on similiar machines and busy forums which have probably already answered the questions being thrown around here, plus some cool user mods and paint jobs...

Re:obligatory pedantic brit

[OAB]

yes, but doesn't the OED also define the word "racialist" when we all know the real word is "racist" and the other word should be stamped out?

So that's where my Gran gets it from!

Problems...

[TWX]

My PC has all of those things too, and is in a nice 19" rackmount chassis in the AV rack along with the CD Player, Laserdisc Player, VCR, Tape Deck, Receiver, Pro Logic Decoder, etc, etc, etc.

Granted, it doesn't operate perfectly mainly on account of my not really knowing what I'm doing, but the form factor of this thing is just asinine. A nice 3U height case would be perfect, 17" wide (with an available 19" ears kit), black to match my AV stuff, with front Svideo and Component inputs like VCRs. This thing by comparison won't fit in a telco rack properly.

Mod parent Redundant/Overrated

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that there is a big difference between a press release and a review, don't you?

Wanted: MythTV Distro

[swb]

Myth TV sure *looks* good, but the idea of doing a Linux distro, X, and then MythTV sounds like way too much nuisance compared to just buying a Tivo (which I already own) or even a DVD recorder.

I'd pay $100 for a install-from-CD distro designed to do MythTV. I'm sure some people insist on it being everything from a web server to an email gateway, too, but I'd care only for the Myth TV functionality.

Is anything coming down the pike like this, a home-media OS package designed to be put in a standard stereo-formfactor PC, without a lot of the endless configuration and hairpulling?

No digital video - DVI ?

[GodWasAnAlien]

There is no DVI?

What about tech support!

[notetoi]

Their tech support is not very "good", their (un)official forums are filled with generic RTF-FAQ written by semi-official MSI mods, but I guess they are doing their best. Just make sure you don't get on MSI's case or they'll remove your messages, and delete your account.

From experience:
CRC problems with KT400 mbs, being blamed on VIA chipset (at least the problem is acknowledged), and still not fix satisfactory after 3/4 years. The "fix" was to slow down the ide bus. Why not product recall!
AMD recommends KT4V based on a bios (1.9) which, 4 months later, it is still not available to the general public.

I was considering this product a few months ago, but after dealing with MSI I have doubts. Anyway, before I go into rant mode, I'd be very skeptical about a company who is into flavor of the month, retires products after 6 months, and doesn't know the meaning of (paying) "customer satisfaction".

Dedicated MSI MEGA forum

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forums.sudhian.com/categories.cfm?catid=93& forumid=1

Dedicated MSI MEGA forum, tons of info.
Great small form factor forums if you havent checked them out yet. TONS of MEGA info.

Comparisons with the Shuttle?

[DrCode]

Anyone care to compare this with the Shuttle SN41G2? I've been considering one of these, although the price ($329 at Fry's) seems a little high. Still, the Shuttle comes with Nvidia video with SVGA TV-out, which is fairly appealing. The one thing I've been wondering is if it's easy/possible to use remotes with Linux.

Yeah, review sucked

[MemeRot]

You're reviewing a home theater pc. You don't hook it up to a home theater system. The home theater pc doesn't come with a tv out. Uh..... I don't get it. Who is this review supposed to help? And how is this intended as a home theater pc?

Better alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

This case looks like a cheap midi set. Why not build a real HTPC around the Dign HV-5, which just looks like a real high-end DVD player, has a remote control and programable VFD display which is easily configured via girder.

Not a home theater box

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets face it, without tv out, dvi and/or component out this is simply another un-cube pc.

My extensive experiences with these are that they're loud, hot, and hard to work in. My last experiment with a shuttle based unit was horrible. It ran way too hot and the noise overwhelmed the low sound passages on movies. I removed the cover from the power supply for circulation and pulled the power supply fan that was screaming. No dice, the power supply died a month later. Proprietary replacement supply was over $50.

What I ended up going with was a nice slim but standard height tower, filled it with goodies, and hid it behind the couch. Wish I could have found a decent black desktop case but while there are a few around, they come with loud power supplies and tend towards expensive. I could net a nice tower case with a quality quiet power supply for small bucks by comparison.

I was able to use nice quiet 80mm fans, have plenty of air space inside the box, and its easy to work on. An external firewire DVD drive made accessibility easy, and a wireless keyboard/mouse that I can put in the closet when i'm not using them rounded out the package. An ATI remote wonder allows me full control of the machine without the keyboard when watching movies.

On the topic of intel vs amd for this application, a 2.0GHz celeron based on the northwood core is the choice. Its plenty cheap and more than speedy enough. I'm running blur/sharpen filters, resize doubling and extensive postprocessing with bsplayer and ffdshow-alpha. No CPU overload problems with mpeg 1/2/4. If needed for a specific app I can OC it to a 2.4GHz unit with no problems. Been using an Albatron motherboard for this. MB and cpu for under $140 and rock solid. Runs a hell of a lot cooler than the AMD parts I played with in the same price range and the cpu cooler options for quiet cooling are more extensive.

The little box is no good.

Re:Wanted: MythTV Distro

[laird]

I agree. I've been considering setting up a little side business to pre-build MythTV hardware/software. What doyou think?

I'd agree with your comment -- if you're worried about having to fiddle with things, you should just get a TiVo -- it "just works" while the MythTV is a fair amount of work to set up.

As an aside, MythTV actually does have a web server built in (so you can manage recordings while you're not home, etc.). Don't know about mail, though it might be cool (come to think of it) to have it email you when it records programs.

But

Shilling the beans. 16bit crap audio, blah blah bl

[macrostiff]

Lame, dated, hardware.
For 40 bux more there're 24bit/18bit codec audio boxes with LVDS video in finer aspect SFF case.
But wait 6 months and you'll get full 24bit I/O
96kHz audio along with another cycle of cabinet
refinement and less cooling associated noise...

Stick it in a closet; was: Re:The noise...

[YetAnotherName]

I have to wonder why so many people are concerned about noise in an HTPC.

My HTPC has a 6 drive RAID array and 9 cooling fans with just under a terabyte of storage. It runs fairly cool for all it does (HDTV decoding and recording, media library, analog video capture, MP3 serving). Yet you can't hear it at all in the home theater.

Why? Because it's in another room. Seriously folks, just stick your HTPC in a closet and run long cables. Even at 75 feet, 1080i HDTV carried over component video looks amazingly sharp.

Re:Wanted: MythTV Distro

[swb]

I'd want MythTV for the total flexibility it would provide, including the ability to write DVD-Rs, copy raw MPEGs and that kind of thing that Tivo can't do.

Even the mail sending and web interface (especially this) would have a lot of use (remote schdeduling, program downloads, etc). When I referred to email server and web server in my previous post, I was kind of knocking the people who would INSIST that because it's Linux, it must also continue to be a general purpose server platform.

Maybe I would too, eventually, but right now I just want the media usage abilities. But I don't have the time or desire to fsck around with getting it up. I gave up on X a long time ago, multimedia & Linux? Ugh, getting grass to grow in the yard is less complicated and more rewarding to me...

Re:Wanted: MythTV Distro

[laird]

Well, it's not _that_ bad. There's a very good FAQ, so you can get MythTV up and running pretty easily. It's tedious but quite well documented.

Re:obligatory pedantic brit

[fuali]

Heh, I pronounce it like that and I was a Nuke-u-ler reactor operator. I could tell you about the neutron life cycle of Urainium237 under thermal fission. See first you have your non-reactive thermal absorption...

...Anyway, I pronounce it wrong just to mess with people. When they try to correct me I quiz them on nuclear physics, and when I stump them I tell 'em to shut up. heh, I kill me.

These are crap

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a company that has just started to carry these PC's. Not to mince words, they are crap. As the artile mentions, you cannot use the LCD while the PC part is powered on. If your Radio portion is on when you power on the computer, your cd rom will not work in the OS. Want to listen to the radio? Good luck. First of all you cannot manually tune the radio stations, only scan the channels - which is a problem considering the most powerful Radio station here in Raleigh comes in FULL of static, half the time it scans right by all but the most powerfull stations (which are staticy at best). This is with the included antenna AND a large antenna we have on the roof (although there was less static with the rooftop antenna). If you want to play an MP3 cd with the HiFi part of the system on you have to hold down the cd flap and manually hit the open and close button of the cdrom (which is a problem for those with bigger fingers). The computer part isnt so bad.. but if I wanted a SFF PC, I would buy a Shuttle XPC.

The PC part does have an AGP slot, which would be a good thing, execept for the fact that a full size video card (read: any GeForce/ATI) ARCS! to the power supply because it is so close and SHORTS OUT!

Just my .02 from a Salesperson. My company will not be ordering any more of these and sticking with the Shuttle's. (Did this reviewer get paid for his review?) This system needs a re-design for a rev. 2.0.

Nice but...

[Gyorg_Lavode]

This is nice but, I wish systems like this would come prebuilt with PVR capabilities. They are starting to put some very nice Home theater computers on the market but they are all bear bones. Lets see something that comes with the hardware needed for PVR.

HD-SDI

[dododge]

Component is so last year. DVI is the way to go for HD.

Isn't there some issue about DVI not always being able to handle HD resolutions and/or refresh rates?

For real bragging rights, convert your video equipment to HD-SDI. This is the SMPTE standard for uncompressed HD, used in HDTV production and broadcast environments. The downside is that HD-SDI hardware is crazy expensive; figure $5K for an output card, $8K or more for a capture card, and so on.

Lame multimedia PC, no video or S-video out!!

[nexusone]

Strange that when multimedia PC's first came out they had video and S-video output's.

They one day was at my local hardware store and noticed that the vidoe functions had be droped??

Was this a DMCA related or just cost???

Look here for discussion about cases etc.

[egghat]

Sudhian has a forum dedicated to HTPCs only.

HTPC forum.

There are some good HiFi like cases like the CoolerMaster ATC 600,610, 620 and 630.
The LianLi 9100, 9300, 9320 and 9400 are fine as well.

The other forums at Sudhian are interesting as well if you into XPC and similiar stuff.

Bye egghat.

Somebody

[blah1019]

not had their morning coffe yet?