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Novell To Cease NetWare Development?
Karl Cocknozzle writes "CNET News is reporting that Novell may discontinue NetWare following the purchase of Linux software company Ximian - for details on the purchase, see the recent Slashdot article. Novell plans to run its NetWare services - such as eDirectory and Secure Identity Management - on the Red Hat and SuSE Linux distributions."
This really shouldn't shock anyone. Novell has already stated that NetWare 7 will allow the installer to choose between Linux or NetWare kernels. Can you say migration path?
The recent Novell Connections magazine talked about their Linux strategy up to NetWare 7. So far, no one has talked much about what comes after. With Novell's history of shifting strategies, I think I'll just take it one day at a time.
the no
One thing I forgot to mention is that Linux has amazingly broad hardware support. Novell could take advantage of this and break into new markets all by simply recompiling their source code for the various different architectures Linux supports. And peripheral support is probably much better in Linux, which means that overall the Novell solution could be far more beneficial on a Linux base than on the old NetWare base.
"Microsoft's precedent for dumping all support for old products when new ones roll around."
So RadHat will support my 7.1 install? NO OF COURSE NOT! Mandrake doesn't even offer support for 8.x any more and 9.0 only came 4 months ago.
Novell Denies It's Killing Off NetWare
Network software and service vendor Novell, meanwhile, upped the ante of its bet on Linux by announcing that it was porting its GroupWise groupware and collaboration software to the open-source OS.
Novell, which has been rushing to shift to Linux, announced Tuesday that its GroupWise collaboration platform will run entirely on Linux in the first half of 2004, when both client and server software is finalized. The Linux version of the GroupWise client is currently in beta, while the server software will enter beta in September.
GroupWise, which is part of Novell's Nterprise suite, does e-mail, calendaring, instant messaging, document management, and workflow management. Currently it runs on Windows and Novell's own NetWare operating systems. The Linux edition will also integrate with Ximian's Evolution collaboration client, promised Novell. The Provo, Ut.-based Novell acquired Ximian earlier this week.
Novell's pitch is just the latest in a round of moves by companies to port their collaboration and workgroup software to Linux. Last week, IBM Lotus said that it would include Linux support in the next version of its Domino Server, which is scheduled to debut as part of Notes 6.5 this fall.
"Enterprises are looking at Linux and open standard platforms for their messaging and collaboration applications," said Maurene Caplan Grey, a research director at Gartner.
Novell also announced that it's added support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 8 to its eDirectory directory service software.
eDirectory 8.7.1, which will be available August 8, will add support for these two Linux distributions to the already-available support for Windows, Solaris, NetWare, and AIX. Additional authentication features, including support for biometrics, smart cards, and tokens, will also be part of the upcoming edition. eDirectory will be priced at $2 per user, said Novell, with volume discounts available.
Also at LinuxWorld, reports surfaced that Novell was taking an even bigger step towards Linux by discontinuing development for its flagship NetWare network operating system.
That talk is all wrong, said Novell's president and CEO, Jack Messman on Wednesday.
"Novell is not dropping NetWare, we're adding Linux," said Messman.
Novell's shipping NetWare 6.5, the most recent version of its OS, next week, added Messman, and when it debuts NetWare 7.0 -- which is still in development -- the operating system will support both the NetWare and the Linux kernels.
"NetWare is not going away. Period," said Messman.
John Kerry is a Joke!
They're not moving to a services-based model at all.
You still have to pay for the actual products like edirectory, groupwise, zenworks etc it's just that the plan is to have everything run under Linux instead of the old Netware OS. (Which some of the software does already)
and is now faster than Microsoft's own file serving routines.
...
Yes and no
Not for lots of small files. Translating file system semantics can take up a lot of time, and is much slower than windows. This is not likely to be fixed soon. Samba was noticably faster for large files, but I think that m$ have taken steps to make their fileserving faster these days.
Yay for competition.
Does Novell have a MacOS-X client?
4 /p r03018.html
Yes.
http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2003/0
I for one hope they will dump the old console interface as it sucks pretty bad as it is.
For years it used to run in a single thread which would hang on the first defunct NLM you'd try to unload during shutdown or whatever. If you're smart and know which module is causing trouble on a NetWare box, you unload all other critical modules, and then the defunct one lastly before downing.
It was only in Netware 5 that you got the option of spawning more consoles and dismounting your volumes when things got out of hand; you can use these to unload a couple of the more critical applications before you have to turn of the power, because you won't get the server downed normally.
Some POSIX flavour added to Netware wouldn't hurt. An option to kill - and I mean kill - a process would be a great improvement. It may be possible already (I'm still on Netware 5), but then I'm just stupid, aren't I. :-)
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
I've asked our novell representative in the netherlands about this. :
he forwarded me an e-mail from the CEO
A recent news report coming out of the LinuxWorld Conference suggests that Novell is considering stopping development of NetWare. We're not. Despite Novell's firm and frequent statements concerning continued development and support for NetWare, discussion of Novell's Linux strategy invariably leads to concern over Novell's NetWare commitment. Let us put those concerns to rest.
As we've said repeatedly, Novell is not dropping NetWare, we're adding Linux. Novell's focus is on the customer, and the customer wants choice. As we stated in April of this year, and again yesterday at LinuxWorld, we will make Novell's services available both on a NetWare kernel and a Linux kernel going forward. Novell has a large installed base of NetWare users, and we'll continue to serve those customers as we've always done. NetWare 6.5, the latest version of NetWare with powerful new services for business continuity, open source, Web application services and "virtual office" capabilities, begins shipping next week. . We have also announced that NetWare 7.0 is in development, that it will run on both the NetWare and Linux kernels, and that we will have more to say on it when it is appropriate. This is hardly a sign of reduced commitment
NetWare is not going away. Period.
Jack Messman
Chairman, President and CEO
Novell, Inc.
Wow you are uninformed.
Netware was not hurt at all by linux. It was the forced adoption of windows that caused Netware's downfall.
Netware is STILL the absolute best server/networking solution out there. IT's better than anything that microsoft has ever created (Netware 3.1x is better than W2003server!) based on one very simple fact...
IT NEVER CRASHES. we have a netware server that has uptimes that make Linux users drool... 4 years 6 months and 28 days. no silly need to upgrade it, no need to install hotfixes every 6 minutes, no reason to do anything to it but watch it work flawlessly.
I do agree, netware is a major screaming difficult bitch to configure but after you get it going, it stays working forever.
Wat killed netware is that abortion called Windows for Workgroups. that instantly gave you FREE server software for 5 users when you buy your computer. well that instantly kills most of netware's customers, the small office.
and that is when this damned complacency with windows failing all the time took root in business.. "this windows network keeps crashing", "dont complain, it was free" etc....
I will miss Netware in a strange love/hate way..
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I really doubt that, considering how different Novell OS is. Windows an Linux are similar when it comes to native filesystems etc. In Linux we have rwx permissions, deny overrides allow for inherited rights etc. Windows has the above plus a little more. Novell on the other hand has tons of permissions and rights. For example you can give a user the rights to rename a file but not to do anything else in the folder etc.
Novell supports perl, except for the commands for directory traversal etc. If Novell could not fix it up for so long I doubt they will be able to provide full binary support.
What I think the idea is ( and what novell has been saying) is that Netware 7 will be a set of services which run on Linux. They will behave like before but the underlying OS will be netware. It shouldnt matter onto anybody since no one ever really has to work directly on the box in Netware almost everything is through a browser, and from there there will be no changes.
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
Many large corporations still use Netware instead of the Microsoft alternative. CNN still seems to be very fond of it, they had a "Powered by EDirectory" logo on their website for a while
Netware was killed by a demand for application servers that it was ill-suited for and did not have (or had in small, unstable numbers). A lot of places switched to NT4 because of the wealth of applications that could be run on it concurrently with filesharing. Web servers and client-server databases were the biggest culprits.
Linux and NT4 filled the bill there and as a bonus for smaller organizations, could do file and print at the same time.
I think if Novell had moved the filesharing and directory components to an application model instead of the blended OS/application model that it was, and made filesharing/directory available on Linux and NT4 with a less expensive licensing scheme they'd still be out there as contenders for new business, and perhaps keeping marketshare from Microsoft.
I'm not knocking Netware for it base usage -- file and print with a solid directory and security model -- for that, even a 6 year old copy of 4.11 is superior to Win2k. But the fact that it made a poor application server, if you could find reasonably stable applications to run on top of it, is where it failed badly.
In larger organizations I can see why they kept it going -- the directory is great, and larger organizations find it easier to manage a large, heterogeneous environment anyway, so adding Linux or NT or whatever boxes for application serving wasn't as much a cost or management issue as it was in smaller organizations that sought greater efficiencies.
"There are still people using (the) VMS (operating system) and minicomputers. Just because development stops, doesn't mean people stop using it."
OpenVMS development has stopped? It looks alive and well to me, for now anyway. See here for New Features and Benefits.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1 supports x86 and IA-64:
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.0 is in beta for x86, x86-64, IA-64, pSeries, and iSeries:
Red Hat is very careful to keep packages clean for architectures other than x86. IA-64 support was one of the reasons for the controversial GCC 2.96 fork.Since Novell now owns the original copyright of Evolution they can rerelease it under a closed binary-only licence. Or even release two seperate versions (one open, one closed) and be abiding by the GPL.
You are correct Groupwise is not open source at all. So lets look at the options novell has:
As you can see there is not really a problem here with the two being differently licenced. I don't think Groupwise will ever become open source as it is one of the best assits that Novell has over other products.
You are correct, our biggest fear is Evolution becoming closed source. I don't personaly think this will happen, but the current source is GPL and can be forked! The best move for Novell is to keep it open sourced and work on a closed source connector.
Novell's strength is in their understanding (and implementation) of clever architectures such as NDS. Much like the development of clever standarsds such as LDAP and HTTP have resulted a number of profitable products, Novell's continued development of their "good stuff," no matter the platform, will be good for Novell.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Well, according to an eWeek story from today, this News.com article is entirely wrong:
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http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1212139,00.a
SAN FRANCISCO--Novell Inc. dismissed reports that it is planning to phase out new NetWare development in favor of Linux.
A Novell executive Wednesday told eWEEK that the Provo, Utah, company has no plans of cutting NetWare development in favor of Linux, as some reports had indicated.
Chris Stone, vice chairman of the company, said NetWare will continue in maintenance mode, comments Novell officials said were taken out of context.
Chris Stone speaks out on Ximian, Microsoft and SCO. Read his interview with Microsoft Watch.
"We're into Linux, that's why we're here," said a Novell executive, who asked not to be identified. "That's why we bought Ximian. And we said that with Version 7.0 you'll have a choice of either upgrading to the NetWare base or moving to Linux. But with $400 million of our revenue in NetWare, that would be ridiculous for us to abandon development on it."
Bruce Lowry, top spokesman for Novell, said, "The bottom line is no. The whole thing with Linux is an additive thing. We're not dumping NetWare, we're adding Linux."
In a statement, Jack Messman, chairman, president and chief executive of Novell, addressed the issue firmly. "A recent news report coming out of the LinuxWorld Conference suggests that Novell is considering stopping development of NetWare. We're not," he said. "Despite Novell's firm and frequent statements concerning continued development and support for NetWare, discussion of Novell's Linux strategy invariably leads to concern over Novell's NetWare commitment. Let us put those concerns to rest.
"We have also announced that NetWare 7.0 is in development, that it will run on both the NetWare and Linux kernels, and that we will have more to say on it when it is appropriate. This is hardly a sign of reduced commitment. NetWare is not going away. Period," Messman said in his statement.
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein