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Novell To Cease NetWare Development?
Karl Cocknozzle writes "CNET News is reporting that Novell may discontinue NetWare following the purchase of Linux software company Ximian - for details on the purchase, see the recent Slashdot article. Novell plans to run its NetWare services - such as eDirectory and Secure Identity Management - on the Red Hat and SuSE Linux distributions."
This has already been predicted several months ago. This is probably a good thing for Novell, as they no longer have to focus on the ENTIRE OS, just their proprietary services, and therefore can make more advances such as further seamless integration with windows clients and the addition of seamless integration for UNIX/Linux clients. While never particularly a fan of the entire OS itself, I've always admired the capabilities of the Netware solution. This really looks like a good sign for the future.
It's one thing to move to a services-based model.
However, it's another matter entirely to move to a model wehre instead of shipping a large, propeitary, unique product no one else has [NetWare] you are providing essentially a pure service-- you are taking products anyone else could have picked up and assembled (ximian, etc) and assembling them in a way that anyone could have done, but probably someone not doing it professionally could not do in as nice, coherent or usable a psckgage-- is another matter altogether.
Now, given, this service will surely make lots of people much happier than they would have been either under NetWare or Outlook. But it's still a very bold, risky move.
Kudos to Novell for having the courage.
-- super ugly ultraman
The poster asks a valid question.
Novell (who has been quoted as saying that the issue between them and SCO isn't completely over) is now investing in Linux as part of their business model.
They have different roots than a Linux distro house like RedHat or SuSE, but they'll eventually push out their own Novell Linux distro. Yeah, my money is on Novell continuing to have issues with SCO, and vise versa.
One hell of a game of chicken.
-- I'd say your post was about 3 monkeys, 18 minutes.
At least, that's a big indicator for the industry that nobody in the UNIX business takes SCO FUD seriously.
One might think that Novell knows what they are talking about when it comes down to UNIX IP...
Of course, none of us need this indicator, but for the managers out there with very little technical knowledge about to say "Hmmm, Linux, let's wait until the SCO problem is settled", that's a pretty good indicator that SCO is just a piece of shit.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
like most open source things, you have to build it to make it work. eDirectory just drops in--and some of the surrounding pieces of it are either free or open source now.
Setting up OpenAFS/Kerberos/LDAP is a lot of work--and kind of high-maintenance in comparison to eDirectory. eDirectory itself is actually more advanced and feature-rich than even the three of those pieces combined--it's a loosely-coupled replicated database that's tuned for slow WAN links. It's completely object-based (LDAP is just an access protocol - Kerberos is just an authentication method - AFS is just a distributed file system--none of these really define the "way" this data is stored, extended, replicated & accessed) & can handle any type of information. It can be extended on the fly. It's kinda hard to describe how impressive eDirectory is if you haven't seen it in action on a big WAN.
What will they be doing with the code? Holding onto it or distributing it? If they would release it would anyone want it?
Maybe a ransom like with blender? The more free code the better.
I remember when I compared Novell Netware 4 against Windows NT 3.51 back in 1995. Netware destroyed NT hands-down. It was incredibly faster. And it was until Win2K they finally added Directory services. OpenGL screen savers on NT 3.51 Server almost slowed down everything to a halt. (NT3 ran video drivers in Ring 3). Netware ran in any 386 PC - NT had very very high memory and CPU requirements. Netware salvage (undelete) even supported multiple versions of the same file. NT/2K still manages printers badly. And with CA Clipper with Clipper Tools I did many nice Netware apps, like one to kill all student accounts at the beginning of a new semester. Just imagine if MS Access had access to NT Users and Groups. Unfortunately NT3 was prettier, the first Netware client for Win95 was really awful, and, NT was much cheaper. Maybe the final nail in the coffin was IIS for NT4.
In future versions they have promised Netware will either run on a Netware kernel or a Linux kernel. Netware 8 may only have the option of a Linux kernel but Novell can still call it Netware if they want.
The question is how tightly they can wrap there added value services like eDirectory, iPrint, iManager, etc without having to GPL them as well.
Cheers
VikingBrad
Netware has been dead for some years now. THe advent of Linux has basically killed the use of Netware.
This isn't true. Netware isn't dead - uncommon yes but not dead by a long shot. Netware provides a great deal of enterprise services under one roof. Yes, a pure Linux/OSS solution can too but the time required to get it "right" is considerable. These different components all work together seamlessly under Netware. (This does require an admin w/ brain - which isn't very common either)
If that pisses you off, then put together all these OSS bits and pieces into one package, create some very refined managment tools and sell your consulting services. You'll make a killing.
The only place Netware is still installed is in already existing places, where, indeed it performs upto its reputation.
This isn't true either. I know of a few local companies I deal with that, within the last year, deployed Netware instead of NT.
(No, I don't resell Netware or provide Netware consulting services of any kind.)
I don't know, Open Office vs. Star Office seems to work pretty well, right now.
Chris
Your fears are not justified, you are missing something - what's happening with other largish corporations working with OSS.
IBM have ported Linux to their s390 the code is still open. That's how GPL works, and IBM benefit from community contributions, peer review, reduced development costs and all the benefits that OSS brings.
Apple use OSS software extensively in OSX. Stuff that includes Samba, CUPS, OpenSSH, XFree86, and in all these cases Apple returns the code to their respective projects and honours the GPL.
SGI have moved lots of their formally commercial code to the GPL.
It's when a Corp "Gets it" that they cooperate and participate with the OSS methodoligies. It does work, and does save them and make them money.
I have little doubt that Novell will eventually, or already have "Got it" and move key parts of their NDS and Groupware technologies to GPL bound Open code.
Novell is a very valuable friend for the OSS community to have.
Just one gripe; I mentioned this story yesterday!!??
Evolution is presently distributed under the GPL, so of course Evolution in its present state can not be "closed".
If Ximian (and Novell) holds the copyrights they can release it under multiple licenses like Helix, apple etc. The code which is already out will be open while the newer code might be not.
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
Keep in mind, the SCO you're talking about is the SCO from the 80s in name only. The original Santa Cruz Operation was bought out by Caldera, and after floundering in both the Linux and Unix markets, Caldera renamed itself The SCO Group. There's actually not a whole lot of the original SCO left in all of that mess.
The heart of Netware is NDS, Novell directory Services, and it's not really important what operating system or kernel it runs on. You can run NDS on NT (not really logical, since you've already shelled out all that money) or Linux. When NDS 1st came out, it was light years ahead of what Microsoft had to offer. However, Netware, the OS, was not the friendliest environment to work in and the number of people who know it in and out is dwinding. BUT there's an army of people who know Linux and are willing to help you for free or a fee. A Microsoft network admin is not going to rip out his "investment" in NT/2000 and replace it with something unfamiliar. However, a unix/linux admin may consider doing so if it's offered on a platform that he or she is familiar with - Linux os, x-windows GUI and flawless integration with the rest of his unix and Linux enviroment. Obviously Windows desktops will be able to authenticate into NDS and use resoruces on Linux boxes...AND maybe some day in the future the admin will be able to get rid of the Windows 2000 Professional/XP desktop and replace it with...you guessed it, Ximian desktop + easy software distribution and management.
If I was a Network Manager at a small, 50-500 person company, I would definitely consider ripping out NT and replacing it Novell's offerings some time down the road.
If that pisses you off, then put together all these OSS bits and pieces into one package, create some very refined managment tools and sell your consulting services. You'll make a killing.
/. someone who has never used Samba to replace a well-used Netware server will start yakking away about how simple it is.
Why doesn't anyone else seem to understand this? Hello? Have you not had to fight to get Samba to run properly? I now know the ins and outs of Samba but saying that Samba, it it's present form, could simply be a drop in replacement for something like Netware or Windows Server is a joke. It requires a lot of configuration and testing work to get it up to snuff. I just wish the Samba team did a better job of handling their releases. Every single major release seeems to be followed up by an essential patch within days if not hours.
Of course on
As Novell was rather pro-active in favour of defending Linux, I think it's rather rude to associate them as being behind the SCO crap.
Novell is just showing they are still a company that "gets it" technically. Why pay some obscene amount to support and develop a proprietary file sharing OS when the main thing customers buy their products for is directory management?
Sure people use Novell file/print sharing servers as well, but that's mainly because it's an appliance OS that integrates well with the directory management they want. They could care less about the underpinnings of that appliance OS as long as it does the job with reasonable performance.
When is the last time you've seen any applications built for the Novell OS core? That being the case, why would you care what OS API they have under the hood?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Client sites I've worked at didn't roll Novell servers because it's Novell, but because it's a stable directory management/resource sharing appliance. They could care less what kernel us under the hood, as long as it remains easy to administer and stable.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I would counter your argument by saying that anyone who chooses Win2k or 2003 server for a new "clean" install is brain dead. Why would you choose Windows over Linux? If both can do the job and the features are about the same (which they are),
why would you want to pay...
$1,000 for 2003 server with 5 FREKING CALS!!!
>$1,000 for Exchange Server with 5 CALS!!!
$1,000+ for antivirus software
I left out SQL server but I bet it is well over a grand also.
What if your office had between 50-100 users! (This is a giant percentage of small businesses). The cost would be freaking huge when compared to... umm... near FREE!!!
Now factor in that you don't actually OWN Windows software but you lease it from Microsoft, makes this a "brain dead" decision to limit your Windows server installs.
I tell you it sure is fun to go in to managment when the company isn't doing to well and inform them that they HAVE TO do an upgrade of a product, because it is in the freaking licence agreement. Oh yeah and they have to pay that company huge $$$ again. Yep that sure is fun when they want lay off part of your staff just to pay a bill to a company. My example actually comes from Oracle, but now add Microsoft to the list. Get prepared to answer these questions a lot.
"Isn't what we have now running fine?"
"Isn't there a chance that this will break what we currently have running?"
"Won't we have to spend more money on training now?"
"What benifit will this add to the company?"
and the best one.
"Why don't we just outsource this stuff?"
Yep those are fun ones...
At least with Netware you do get security built in to the product, and the worst they have ever done is cut off support for a product.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Two words... Notes 6. Doesn't happen anymore.
NotesBuddy was available even with release 5, and Outlook-style tray notification is the default in 6
Don't like the way this works? In Notes, you can redesign the mail template to work any way you want! Try that in Exchange/Outlook.
Both of the above responses. You can redesign the interface to be whatever you want it to be, even in 5. And in 6, the default appearance is as user friendly as Outlook right out of the box. And an Open Source mail template (see http://www.openntf.org) makes it look/work exactly like Outlook, except for all the viruses and stuff.
Notes 6. Not your father's Lotus Notes.
Sean