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New Microsoft Mouse Scrolls Both Ways

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the yes-i-said-it dept.

Library Spoff writes "The BBC are reporting that Microsoft are bringing out a mouse that will use the scroll wheel to tilt as well as roll. The innovation means that users will be able to scroll vertically as well as horizontally without using on-screen navigation bars." How long before I get a trackball embedded in my mouse?

37 of 736 comments (clear)

  1. Apple had a similar idea! by avij · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't this pretty much the same idea that Apple had some time ago?

    --

    Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    1. Re:Apple had a similar idea! by Vexalith · · Score: 3, Funny

      What, you mean Microsoft copied something from Apple? This is news... how?

      Am I the only one who uses a repeated backward "flick" of the finger to get through a document really quickly? If the wheel didn't have any resistance it wouldn't stop, and wouldn't be to useful.

    2. Re:Apple had a similar idea! by saskwach · · Score: 5, Informative

      IBM had this before Apple, my roommate's IBM Athlon 800 (800MHz was a new thing to Athlons when he bought it) came with one of these things.

    3. Re:Apple had a similar idea! by The+Bungi · · Score: 5, Funny
      Bungi's Mac Theory #19:
      When discussing GUI innovation, the probability that someone will say "Apple already did that" approaches infinity faster than you can say "Xerox".
  2. /. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From Jakob Nielsen's Top Ten Web-Design Mistakes 2002:

    3. Horizontal Scrolling

    Users hate scrolling left to right. Vertical scrolling seems to be okay, maybe because it's much more common.
    Web pages that require horizontal scrolling in standard-sized windows, such as 800x600 pixels, are particularly annoying. For some reason, many websites seem to be optimized for 805-pixel-wide browser windows, even though this resolution is pretty rare and the extra five pixels offer little relative to the annoyance of horizontal scrolling (and the space consumed by the horizontal scrollbar).

    So now why do I want this mouse?

    John.

    1. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by jason.hall · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At first I thought as you do, but then I started thinking of wide spreadsheets where this mouse would be QUITE handy.

    2. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You want it so you can easily deal with all the jerks that don't make their webpages to size.

      Also, spreadsheets often require a lot of left/right scrolling, and if you work with them a lot this will be a big improvement. If its as easy as the mousewheel to use, I'm all for it.

      Don't hate it just because its from Microsoft. Evaluate the technology for what it is.

    3. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by Captain_Frisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see this as a tool for scrolling left in web pages, but rather very handy when working with image manipulation software.

      Its definetly not a radical innovation, but it would ne a nice feature to have every once in a while.

      Also, I bet it could come in handy in games, particularly the more recent fps games, where there is more than just fire and jump to have to worry about.

    4. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by neglige · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So now why do I want this mouse?

      I asked myself the same thing a few years back when the mouse wheel was up'n'coming. Can't live without it now...

      But I guess it is easier for the finger to stretch forward and backward, rolling the wheel up and down than to move sideways. Perhaps strained pointing fingers will be the next sign for exessive computer usage (OT: I managed to hurt my hand with an old Atari 2600 joystick. Don't ask).

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      My cats ate my karma. They also wrote this comment.
    5. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by Atario · · Score: 4, Interesting
      So now why do I want this mouse?
      Obviously, to make it easier to read poorly-designed websites. Err...

      Seriously, though, (folks,) I do find tend to find it useful for scrolling around wide program listings or for sites whose text column is narrow enough for my browser window, but is merely offset to the right for some vertical navigation bar or advertising column.
      How long before I get a trackball embedded in my mouse?
      I'm surprised it wasn't done years ago. I'm also surprised at the relative failure of the IBM TrackPoint (I think that's what they were called) mice -- a kind of sideways-saddle shaped version of the piezoelectric pencil-eraser-looking mice they like to put in their notebook keyboards, only where the wheel would otherwise be. I have one at work, and it's quite nice. Lots less *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* when scrolling down a page; just pull it back a little and wait. Or pull it harder and wait less. (Did I just say that?) Anyway, it handles vertical and horizontal scrolling, which I find myself doing much more readily using that mouse. Oh, and there's a small button just past the TrackPoint thingy so you can do the equivalent of wheel-clicks.

      The shame of it is, my company has a lot of these mice around, but no one has the drivers installed, and so the TrackPoint becomes completely useless. *Sigh*
      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    6. Re:/. parrotting Micro$oft product announcements? by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why you want this mouse?
      Simple. Microsoft also just came out with Flight Simulator 2004 (aka FS9), and this product was really required to be able to fly with a mouse.

      Seriously, now we're only one step away from getting a clit^H^H^H^Htrackpoint on top of the mouse, like on IBM laptops. What's next? A miniature touch pad on each button?

      What I'd like to see is a mouse that's shorter and wider, that you can hold when your hand is half-closed (which is the natural position), with four buttons, one for each primary digit. Tilt your mouse 90 degrees to the left, grab it, and feel what I mean. Not all this wheel stuff and 8 hard-to-reach buttons that you really only press by accident.

      Regards,
      --
      *Art

  3. umm by tralfamador · · Score: 4, Informative

    i already have an ibm mouse that does this. have had it for 3 years

  4. excellent... by SpineZ · · Score: 4, Funny

    this sure will help me keep one hand free while looking at these 1600x1200 "pictures."

  5. Let me guess... by MarkGriz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Introducing, the Microsoft BiMouse. That Mouse that Scrolls Both Ways (tm)

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  6. I saw this on thinkgeek just today. by rangek · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was browsing thinkgeek and ran across this mouse. Sounds like this is old news.

    1. Re:I saw this on thinkgeek just today. by Mean_Nishka · · Score: 3, Informative

      I bought a bunch of these cheap for work.. I've never experienced anything more annoying than that center ball, especially when you're scrolling downward. All too often downward becomes diagnal, and the scrolling stops.

      I rarely have to scroll side to side since I run my monitor at a fairly high resolution. Just another gimic!

      --
      www.lonseidman.com

  7. Sweet.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .. I can bind the new controls to lean left/right in FPSs. :)

  8. Who says this is for web browsers? by Schezar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Say you have a folder filled with, I don't know, mp3s. Many of them.

    Notice how the window's contents are arranged HORIZONTALLY? Seems a horizontal scroll-thingie would me mighty useful in this situation.

    Or how about wave editing? It would be nice to mouse-scroll across the waveform HORIZONTALLY.

    Just some thoughts.

    --
    GeekNights!
    Late Night Radio for Geeks!
    1. Re:Who says this is for web browsers? by moonbender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Notice how the mouse wheel already scrolls window's contents that are arranged horizontally? At least it does that for me. I don't really see a lot of use for another wheel at least in file system explorers. I'm not sure about wave editing - maybe the same can be applied. Generally, the scrolling wheel is just that, a scrolling wheel. There's no reason why it should only be used for scrolling up and down, and conversely it's been adapted for many other uses: scrolling sideways, zooming in and out, switching items or weapons in games, and so on.

      Now I really don't mind if Microsoft "innovates" and "creates" a four-way mouse wheel - of course, it's not much of an innovation, since mice with additional means to scroll in another dimension have been around for years, but I don't mind the occasional evolutionary step, either. Apart from the first introduction of the mouse wheel (who did that, incidently?), it's been mostly evolution and not revolution for the mouse interface in the last n years, including the allegedly revolutionary step towards optical sensors.
      However, I'm a bit dubious if this will work well. Previous designs I've seen had a second wheel, some of them even had a wheel that actually rolled horizontally. I doubt they were comfortable to use, especially the last variant. (Try scrolling an imaginary horizontal wheel - not exactly comfortable.) From the sounds of the article, the existing mouse-wheel will tilt left and right, making it sound a bit similar to a coolie-hat on joysticks, maybe something like a cross between wheel and coolie-hat. Hohumm. It's better than a horizontal wheel, but it still requires horizontal finger movement, which sucks. There's also the question of accidently tilting the wheel when you only wanted to scroll or click.

      An approach I'd prefer would be a simple software solution, using one of the mice's many (superflous, IMHO) modifier buttons. One of the thumb buttons on my mouse would do very nicely: if pressed, the wheel scrolls horizontally, if not it's the typical vertical scrolling. Obviously this would only make sense in apps which routinely scroll both ways, like spreadsheets. Note that this kind of thing is already routinely done in games! Not really with sideways scrolling, but it's extremely common to have the right mouse button function as a modifier making the wheel zoom instead of scroll or toggle etc.
      Of course, this wouldn't let Microsoft sell new hardware, so I guess this doesn't appeal to them a whole lot.

      Anyway, I don't mind this. I'll try it, but I doubt I need it, so I guess I can save money by not buying a mouse with this feature. Then again, I'm sure people also said that when mouse wheels were first introduces, so what do I know. =)

      Oh and for the record, I'm using a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer right now - fine device!

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  9. Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    MAN AT BAR: [coughs conspicuously, smiles]
    WOMAN AT BAR: [politely but nervously smiles back]
    MAN AT BAR: My, uh, mouse goes both ways, if you know what I mean.
    WOMAN AT BAR: [begins to quietly edge away]

  10. Well, by frodo+from+middle+ea · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Its high time some one comes up with better ergonomic tools than the keyboards and mice of this generation.

    As the average time we spend on these machines increases so does the damage to our fingers and wrists.

    Also a zero decible CPU and a monitor least stressful on eyes would be nice.

    --
    for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
  11. Re:I don't want horizontal scrolling. by stratjakt · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's more to life than webpages.

    Some people use some sort of crazy software called a "spreadsheet" or some stuff, and it goes sideways and up and down and back and forth and all topsy turvy in a world where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing is as it seems.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  12. Mouse with trackball in it by Serk · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...You mean like the Tecstorm TSOTS1?

    http://www.tecstorm.co.uk/tsots1.htm

    Another link - http://www.hardwareoptions.com/merchant.mv?Screen= PROD&Store_Code=HO&Product_code=MI14032

    I'd honestly never heard of it before this article, but after reading the idea of a mouse with a trackball in it, the idea seemed intriguing, so I did a quick Google for "trackball in mouse" and found that one... Looks interesting... Anyone ever used one?

    --
    Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
    1. Re:Mouse with trackball in it by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've seen 4-way and 8-way trackballs in mice available. I've seen some models available at .

      The trackball is actually fully directional. When used as a scrollwheel, the direction you spin it is treated as motion in one of 4 (or 8) directions. It can also be used to control the mouse pointer, but that disables the use of the optical mouse base as a mouse.

      I've thought about getting one, but I'm waiting until it can be used as two independent mice (and driver independent). I'd think it would be good for gaming if you could control motion with the mouse and aiming/head movement with the trackball simultaneously, independently, and accurately. Be able to run any direction and fire at any other (within reason for your avatar's abilities). Running in an arc instead of predictable straight lines while still able to maintain your aim on the target.

      I've also thought about a GUI that could handle two pointers usefully. For example, instead of grabbing the edge of a window to resize it, the user could just grab two points anywhere on the window and adjust/move it that way. It would free the user from the implicit paperweight model in current GUIs.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  13. Hardly an innovation. by Feztaa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to have a mouse that had two scroll wheels on it, and that was 5+ years ago. I used it for both horizontal and vertical scrolling (though it was configurable what you could actually do with it).

    Also, in some linux toolkits (gtk I believe, possibly others), you can scroll any scrollbar (no matter what direction it's in) just by putting the mouse over it and scrolling.

    For example, in gaim, if your buddy list has a horizontal scrollbar, you can scroll horizontally by putting the mouse over the horizontal scrollbar and scrolling. Even better, it doesn't even have to be a scrollbar: on the experimental bittorrent client, you can scroll the little frob that controls the maximum number of uploads this way.

    Fun stuff! I see little point in providing a hardware solution to a problem that was solved with software long, long ago.

  14. Hardware solution for a software problem by hackstraw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The innovation means that users will be able to scroll vertically as well as horizontally without using on-screen navigation bars.

    Need I say more? This is a hardware solution for a software problem.

    Whats next? WWW and email buttons on my computer? How about a Windows key to get in your way every time you go to use the left control?

    When I was a windows developer (I've reformed), I got really loaded on coffee and hot chocolate mix and actually pulled the damned windows key off of my keyboard, drilled a hole in my office wall, and shoved it in there.

    OK, what is this mouse for?

    1. Re:Hardware solution for a software problem by Politburo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about a Windows key to get in your way every time you go to use the left control?

      Lay off the coffee, and learn the keyboard layout. The windows key is a very well designed key, imo. Aside from providing quick access to the taskbar and start menu, the windows key shortcuts provide access to core windows functions without confusing applications or users. Win+D: Show Desktop, Win+F: Find, Win+Break: System Properties, Win+L: Lock Station, and there are several more. These shortcuts do not work using the Ctrl+Esc substitute for the Windows key.

      With respect to WWW and Email buttons, if they can be reconifigured, these buttons can serve as a keyboard quick launch bar. I had an IBM keyboard with launch buttons and volume controls and it was great until they decided not to write a Win2k driver for it.

      Human Interfaces will *always* be a hardware problem, and in many cases, will require a hardware solution. It's just the nature of the beast.

    2. Re:Hardware solution for a software problem by og_sh0x · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What I want to see more than anything else is a utility that will turn the Windows key off for a while, and in the future I would like to see ALL games disable this button during play. The only time the Windows key annoys me is when I'm playing a game and it brings me back to desktop, where meanwhile I'm dying inside the game with no control.

  15. Bonus Feature by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 4, Funny

    Another bonus feature of this new mouse is that is only clicks Microsoft programs and products.

    For your safety, the mouse will not open any programs that Microsoft doesn't make money off of. It could be a virus.

    Furthermore, whenever you do click a Microsoft product, the mouse will waste your bandwidth be automatically connecting the internet, contacting Microsoft, and checking all your serial numbers to make sure your licenses are up to date.

    Then, if you have old software that has an update release from Microsoft, the mouse will open a browser where you can download updates (for a fee of course).

    Then to save you the hassle, the mouse will move the cursor over the Download Updates link and click for you, automatically charging your credit card.

    We hope you enjoy your new Microsoft mouse with added features. And don't forget to sign your EULA before opening the package.


    --

    Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
  16. That's OURS! by SkjeggApe · · Score: 3, Funny

    HEY!!!
    SCO has the exclusive copyright on the multi-scrolling mouse. Prepared for exortion!!!!
    Oh, wait, is that you Mr. Gates? Sorry, we didn't mean to.. eh.. we just got a bit carried away, yes, we do remember, oh please let's still be friends.. it'll never, ever happen again.... sorry ....

  17. It's out of joint. by stomv · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the reasons the scroll wheel is successful is because it's comfortable.

    Why? Your knuckles allow your finget to curl with your finger remaining parallel to the side of your hand.

    However, a side scrolling wheel requires either
    (i) an awful lot of play in your knuckles, allowing you to curl them to be non-parallel with the side of your hand, or
    (ii) bending the wrist to move your entire hand side-to-side.

    Neither is particularly comfortable, and both result in sore hand parts quite quickly. I predict that this will never be used much... too tough on the hands.

    --
    Support a few technologists in Washington.
  18. I've been asking for a trackball in a mouse... by Demon-Xanth · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been asking for a trackball in a mouse for a long time. It'd make working with large OrCAD and AutoCAD files alot easier.

    --
    If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
  19. This is news? by twifkak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because it's done by M$? Because it's done via "tilting"? 4-D mice are not new.

    2 wheels
    1 wheel (presumably via kybd modifier)
    a trackball

    Move along, people, nothing to see here. Please, go back to slamming Real or something much more important.

    --
    I know you were joking, but I want my Karma, so I'm going to reiterate your post in a serious tone.
  20. ./ers missing the point... by int2str · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hey guys!

    I see many replies about other mice with second scroll wheels or a built in trackball.

    This mouse let's you TILT the scroll wheel. That is the innovative part here. And personally I think that's gonna be much more usable than a second scroll wheel or a trackball on your mouse.

    Cheers,
    Andre

  21. Mod parent up as CORRECT!!! by John+Harrison · · Score: 4, Interesting
    IBM has sold mice with a TrackPoint placed between the buttons. This allows for you to scroll up/down and side to side. I always thought that it was hard to use as you had to exert some force to press the pointer and at the same time oppose that force to keep the mouse from moving. A scroll wheel seems more natural to me.

    /.ers lucky enough to use IBM Thinkpads can use the third mouse button to activate scrolling capability for the keyboard mounted TrackPoint. Interestingly, this works better than mouse mounted TrackPoint because you don't have to work to keep the keyboard still as you scroll.

    As others have noted elsewhere in this discussion, there isn't nearly as much use for the side to side scrolling as the up/down. It is useful for navigating spreadsheets and large graphics files.

    PS I know there is no such mod as CORRECT. However, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be.

    --
    Lasers Controlled Games!
  22. Easier solution by Teppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why not just program the existing scroll wheel so that when held down, it behaves like the "hand" tool in Photoshop. Press down the middle button, and then drag the document around the window.

  23. Ok, I got off my lazy ass by Atario · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...and looked it up. Turns out they call it "ScrollPoint". You can see one here. Mine is an older model, and so doesn't look like that, isn't that color, and isn't optical. Still, looks like they do still make them.

    Just for the record, for a general laptop mouse, I don't particularly like those TrackPoint ones; I prefer the touchpad kind. But as a scrolly deal, it's pretty neat. I just wonder when someone will try to put a touchpad on a regular mouse.

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt